Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Yes. They are not that good. Their durability sucks for their cost. They damage is pretty good but it's not broken (and other things are).

Just like Mephrit. It sucks as well. Just like I've said ALL ALONG. However it turns out ALL Necrons suck rofl. Since this is from 201 lists, which means only 1.5% of the top lists is Necrons. And they're ALL running vaults.

Mephrit Deathmarks have some kick, but yeah they're one of the weaker sub factions.

Mephrit tomb blades arent bad either. Doesnt matter what gun they have. They are fast, getting within half weapon range isnt hard, and they can still shoot after falling back, still within half weapon range, when they get charged.

 p5freak wrote:
Mephrit tomb blades arent bad either. Doesnt matter what gun they have. They are fast, getting within half weapon range isnt hard, and they can still shoot after falling back, still within half weapon range, when they get charged.

Also lets you go all cheap with the beamers and still pack some punch with -1 to that S6

It just occured to me. The RP rule could get changed very easily in the FAQ. Since it is only "Reanimation Protocols" and not a full rule on datasheets.

I would love for such a quick fix. And they could make RP a lot more balanced by just doing what they did in Kill Team. When a necron model loses its final wound, roll a d6. On a 5+ the model is not removed and instead regains all wounds lost earlier in the battle.

Crypteks add a +1 to this roll as per normal. Maybe have Resurrection Orbs be a single use of RP as it works now.

It would be like a slightly worse Disgustingly Resilient, but buffable. And it would solve the two main issues of RP not scaling and the opponent being able to negate it.

Oh yes, make the Necrons feel like deathguard +1. That totally won't ruin their most recognizable gimmick and make them dull
That thing was already done. It was called 7th edition. And it was crap. Not crap in the sense that it wasn't effective, crap in the sense that it was so boring and killed how the army felt.

Say what you will, the OG fall down-get back up mechanic, while flavourful and nice, simply doesn't work in 8th and never will. Everything is just too killy in comparison to earlier editions, and your units will inevitably be wiped.

Alternatively, RP could be split up into two separate rules; Repair and Reanimation Protocols. Let repair be a rule that actually makes your units more survivable, such as a -1 to wound rolls made against them, and have RP function as it currently does except only be a once per game per unit type of deal. That way you would have to be tactical about when to use your RP, and Resurrection Orbs would be a lot more worthwhile.

In my opinion, though, I don't think that the feelgood of having a flavourful RP outweighs the massive feelbad of it being unbalanced and trash.

I disagree. It can work by simply permitting a wiped unit to roll. There are two things that can be configured to permit this - Resurrection orbs and spyders.

The former is to give a legacy item a reason for being taken. The latter is a nod to how spyders worked in 3rd ed.

There's also other forms of damage mitigation such as debuffs, defensive bonuses, etc.

RP doesn't work right now because GW did a terrible job at handling it and misunderestimated how effective it would be. They thought it would be strong on its own, when every army bar necrons right now have rules and equipment that support each other as well as their gimmick, something necrons don't have. The cryptek +1 aura is pathetic, for example. Its only 3" range when other armies have 6" auras.
8th ed is about buffs and auras, something necrons lack. RP isn't the problem, the entire army is poorly designed.

RP is definitely part of the problem though. The closer to being wiped a unit is the more powerful it becomes, forcing you to take max units to get anything out of it. Persistant auras that remove that weakness means that your army is literally unkillable as long as your spyders/res orb lords are still alive. This in turn would promote a playstyle of castling up around such characters, restricting the already slow necron army's movement even further.

Buffing the defensive capabilities of necrons to ensure they don't get wiped in one turn wouldn't be very effective either. Such a buff would surely incur a points hike, which would mean our offensive capabilities in relation to points efficiency would be inadvertently shafted. We'd get an almost unkillable army, sure, but we wouldn't do much in return either.

RP is an unbalanced ability because it is too strong while simultaneously having too significant a weakness. Simply removing the weakness therefore won't solve the problem, just create a new one.

I agree that necrons need an overhaul because nothing synergises with anything else, our transports are a mess etc., but RP as it is now is not fine either.

Whilst it clearly doesn't work now, I would rather it not work, and still feel iconic, than be turned into another "FNP" roll that doesn't match the feel of a *repairing* army, and simply turns them into another *tough* army.

Let's hope for a fix that is both balanced and fitting with lore, rather than throwing out all semblance of lore to simply make numbers more happy.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I disagree. It can work by simply permitting a wiped unit to roll. There are two things that can be configured to permit this - Resurrection orbs and spyders.

The former is to give a legacy item a reason for being taken. The latter is a nod to how spyders worked in 3rd ed.

There's also other forms of damage mitigation such as debuffs, defensive bonuses, etc.

RP doesn't work right now because GW did a terrible job at handling it and misunderestimated how effective it would be. They thought it would be strong on its own, when every army bar necrons right now have rules and equipment that support each other as well as their gimmick, something necrons don't have. The cryptek +1 aura is pathetic, for example. Its only 3" range when other armies have 6" auras.
8th ed is about buffs and auras, something necrons lack. RP isn't the problem, the entire army is poorly designed.

I second this. Not being able to RP when the whole squad is wiped doesn't make much sense anyway and is one of the big reasons why RP is so bad in 8th.

Spiders would alsol become a lot more interesting outside of vehicle-heavy lists which is something I would appreciate.

I actually really like how RP works with models able to roll each round, it's very fluffy. Given how poorly it works right now however, and how brutally strong and resilient other armies are in 8th, the easy fix would be to simply remove the rule stating you can't roll if the unit is wiped out. It wouldn't make us OP - in fact we still wouldn't be the most durable army even.

I'd even go as far as making the Res Orb reanimate a full squad without rolling - of course only one use per game.

That would make necrons literally unkillable. Also Either they would become unbeatable in kill points or they would be giving kill points like crazy.

RP ist a bad rule, its need some fine tuning though. l feel like a 2 CP stratagem to reanimate a destroyed unit is a good idea. Can only be used once per destroyed unit per game. Also the re-roll 1s when reanimating stratagem for 2CP should be +1 to the roll.

Cynista wrote:
I actually really like how RP works with models able to roll each round, it's very fluffy. Given how poorly it works right now however, and how brutally strong and resilient other armies are in 8th, the easy fix would be to simply remove the rule stating you can't roll if the unit is wiped out. It wouldn't make us OP - in fact we still wouldn't be the most durable army even.

I'd even go as far as making the Res Orb reanimate a full squad without rolling - of course only one use per game.

I probably know about 10 people who would literally kill themselves rather than play against that lol. Hell, they barely even want to play against my necrons the way they are now, because they feel RP makes fighting them unsatisfying.

Besides, that would definitely make us OP. The further the game progresses and the more diminished the opposing army becomes, the more models we'll be getting back. That could literally make us unbeatable, in the hands of a competent player.

All of this discussion is very off topic, but my $0.02 anyway:

Change rp to only be rolled for models taken in the last turn, but let you roll for units that have been wiped.

Simple leave your models on their side when they are killed in your opponents turn and roll for them in your turn.

This will simultaneously nerf and buff rp, keeping it fluffy and different from fnp.

Ideally the rp roll would happen at the end of the necron move phase so you can move a Spyder or cryptek into range, but that's slightly more problematic.

Since you already have to take into account models most to morale this isn't anymore book keeping. Just leave models on the table for a 'between' phase. Simples.

Cynista wrote:
I actually really like how RP works with models able to roll each round, it's very fluffy. Given how poorly it works right now however, and how brutally strong and resilient other armies are in 8th, the easy fix would be to simply remove the rule stating you can't roll if the unit is wiped out. It wouldn't make us OP - in fact we still wouldn't be the most durable army even.

I'd even go as far as making the Res Orb reanimate a full squad without rolling - of course only one use per game.

No. Allowing a wiped squad to come back should only be through another unit or item. It shouldn't be the default, as it would make necron units effectively unkillable. Free resurrections for a wiped from a res orb would similarly be too strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MrPieChee wrote:
All of this discussion is very off topic, but my $0.02 anyway:

Change rp to only be rolled for models taken in the last turn, but let you roll for units that have been wiped.

Simple leave your models on their side when they are killed in your opponents turn and roll for them in your turn.

This will simultaneously nerf and buff rp, keeping it fluffy and different from fnp.

Ideally the rp roll would happen at the end of the necron move phase so you can move a Spyder or cryptek into range, but that's slightly more problematic.

Since you already have to take into account models most to morale this isn't anymore book keeping. Just leave models on the table for a 'between' phase. Simples.

I'm cool with that. The current system has a bit too much book keeping, as you always have to keep track of total losses. It was simpler in 3rd and 5th ed; if a model fails a roll its gone. That simple.

A simple change would be to change how the res-orb works. "Once per game, after all models in a unit would be been removed, immediately make a resurrection protocols roll for all models in that unit."

This means that an enemy can still focus down a single unit, but they're going to have to try much harder. It makes RP worth their points in every game regardless of size, since you can scale the number of res-orbs.

Yeah, that's probably the best fix for the res orb. Right now its a pretty pathetic item.

Just add a feel no pain to the RP rule. Either 5+ FNP and 6 to get up after death or the opposite

Hey, im readying myself for a 1750p tournament. I'll be facing Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids. Two games against each.

Here's my Nephrek list, 8cp total:

Battalion
Overlord with voidreaper
Cryptek with chrono

20x Warriors
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals

Nightbringer

Fast Attack detachment
Cryptek with chrono, solar staff
6x Destroyers
6x Wraiths
3x scarabs

So here's my thinking. Nephrekh means cryptek will go 11'' every turn, buffing Destroyers RP and giving them 5++ against shooting, giving them a bit more staying power against the hail of plasma I know im facing. Tyranid is bringing Exocrine for example.
The idea is that i'll have one blob of infantry with overlord and cryptek in middle and flank with wraith rushing forwards, destroyers behind, wrapping Nightbringer and Cryptek inside, unleashing the c'tan shard when the timing is right.

Nephrekh also means Immortals are more mobile and I can use CP to hide units in deep-strike.
I also know that big bad tyranid monsters are going to come swooping down on me, so the voidreaper means my overlord hits and wounds on 2+ if they get to close, just as the nightbringer does.

What do you guys think?

How about giving the OL the void scythe relic, meaning it will still hit on 2+ (since you have 8cp)

I'm assuming cryptek has the Veil (never leave home without it)

Perhaps autopass morale for the Warlord trait to help keep the warriors around?

Yeah, veil is gona be great here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can ds destroyers with a strategem to hide from plasma rain

torblind wrote:
How about giving the OL the void scythe relic, meaning it will still hit on 2+ (since you have 8cp)

I'm assuming cryptek has the Veil (never leave home without it)

Perhaps autopass morale for the Warlord trait to help keep the warriors around?

I misstyped, the OL has the voidreaper weapon
Went with the autopass morale aswell, so I get atleast 1 deny the witch aswell!

Had a majory victory over Space Wolves yesterday with a Sautekh battalion. While my list performed quite well, I felt that it would have performed even better as Mephrit.
I never used the 'advance and gain assault weapons' or 'move freely with heavy weapons' part, used Methodical Destruction once (it was okay, but it left me starving for CP) and even the Sautekh Warlord Trait only brought me back one CP.

Wheras with Mephrit, my damage output would have greatly increased on several occasions. Also, I feel like the auto-pass morale one is really the only decent WL trait, even if you aren't taking Warriors. You still can deny one power.

Sautekh is good for it's characters and for buffing immortals up to +2 to hit.

As for characters:
Orikan is good if you're running blobz. He also becomes a mini-ctan later on in the game. All for not much more over a regular cryptek. He's ok in mellee for the price.

Imotekh is a bit too expensive but he's decent in midsized and large games if you' re bringing immortal blobz. His once per game mw lightning ain't half bad.

Zahndrekh is trolltastic. He can buff your infantry but more importantly, he can turn off all auras from an enemy character. Now, here's a fishy part. The description of what an aura exactly is...well, it's quite poorly worded. Long story short, knight's explosion is an aura. Apotrecarian's healing/resurrection ability is an aura. Superheavy vehicle Might be an aura depending on how you rule it out. But some effects that seem to be working like an aura are not an aura. Like relics that buff stuff around the bearer or warlord traits.
Anywayz, this character is great in large games. And can occasionally be amazing.

Hi all - wanted some thoughts on a list.



Upcoming 1750 ITC tourney and I've gone for a very mobile Neprekh Novokh soup force. Play is mainly to throw the wraiths up the board while dropping one destroyer blob each in turns 1 and 2 using the VoD and the strat. Immortals are there to objective hold and get to where they need to be with Nephrekh while Scarabs provide a high wound screen against alphas and smite. Destroyer Lord there for anti tank and potentially put out some high damage on a Knight/Shadowsword etc.

Looks interesting, fast. Don't count on the destroyer Lord to do much anti tank damage. Not sure what to use him best for, you already have the wraiths doing the CC bit. Perhaps plung the DLord into shooty infantry to keep them from firing, or fire warriors and the like. He'll easily recover from the few overwatch wounds he suffers.

bluerunner wrote:
Hi all - wanted some thoughts on a list.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [53 PL, 937pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [51 PL, 811pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

[Reference] Warlord Traits (All)

Dynastic Heirlooms: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact (-1CP)

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 131pts]: Artefact (Novokh): The Blood Scythe, Phylactery, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 2): Eternal Madness

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 65pts]: 5x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 65pts]: 5x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 275pts]: 5x Canoptek Wraith

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 275pts]: 5x Canoptek Wraith

++ Total: [104 PL, 1748pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Upcoming 1750 ITC tourney and I've gone for a very mobile Neprekh Novokh soup force. Play is mainly to throw the wraiths up the board while dropping one destroyer blob each in turns 1 and 2 using the VoD and the strat. Immortals are there to objective hold and get to where they need to be with Nephrekh while Scarabs provide a high wound screen against alphas and smite. Destroyer Lord there for anti tank and potentially put out some high damage on a Knight/Shadowsword etc.

Strangely enough I was just contemplating posting up a nephrekh/novokh list built on the same premise and fairly similar. I think yours is really strong if a bit spammy on good stuff. My concept swaps some wraiths for lych's and a few more funsies. Still attempting to justify a stalker in there lol.

Anyway I really don't see the reason for gauss immortals and I'd also suggest breaking those scarabs into 3 units.
The destroyer lord is pretty badass but actually you get better mileage from voidreaper and crimson haze (77% of the time its the same number of HITS as EM does 33% of the time.. if that makes sense, plus its AoE and 3 wounds each). Anyway in this list I think implacable conqueror is a must have even though part of me would really like crimson haze.

Edit- just something to kick around.. I know it breaks the symmetry but consider dropping 1 destroyer and 2 scarabs and changing the chrono in for a cloak = 88 pts counting whats already left. With these you can swap the Olord for a CCB with lightning field = 82 (78 with tesla if you really want the chrono). Now his MWBD is 27" radius and you go from a meh support character to one of the most durable tarpit bullet catchers around. This guy should come in very handy at a tournament whereas the other dude not so much. The drawback is of course losing 1 destro but you don't actually lose any gauss cannons just a body and your list gains in wounds and flexibility.

Just some friendly ideas. Good luck.

Thanks!
Reason for using that Dlord as a beat stick with that combo of relics and strats is because the meta I play in is very guard/knight heavy and the Dlord would put out 5-7 s8 (dispersion field +1s) attacks -4ap 2dmg, rerolling all hits and wounds. Statistically about 9 wounds on T8 and can use 3cp to fight again if a knight needs to die. If the list doesn't include much T7/T8 stuff, can always change the warlord trait to crimson haze to buff the wraiths with more attacks or endless will to make him hard to kill. All in all, think for 131 pts, the potential for damage is pretty good, like a slightly less flexible version of a BA Smash Captain.

The Command Barge idea is super interesting, had thought the overlord mainly as a tax for HQ and to buff the occassional unit - but it adds another threat in the list which I like. I usually throw a VoD cryptek in all my list for a turn 1 destroyer bomb but I'll test it out, thanks!