Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No first turn DS is a little annoying for destroyers, I quite often dropped them in my DZ on turn 1 when going second.

Our vehicles don't benefit as much from being in cover as those with a 3+ sv do.

The Sautekh WL trait is slightly less good now.

I can't see this FAQ having any impact on the way I write lists.

Yeah, and a monolith only has 6" movement, meaning that there's no point in deploying it on the field. Its going to take 3 turns to get the monolith in position anyway. Not to mention that if it starts on the field, you can bet that every gun will be pointed towards it on turn 1. You have to deep strike the monolith if you want to get any mileage out of it.

I would only use the monolith with the Deceiver, and the dimensional corridor strat. It's just bad though.

I always waited second turn before dropping destroyers, so I could see where my opponent moves and if there are any openings I can exploit, so it doesn't impact me at all.

So much for “GW knows necrons need help” eh?

Just be patient, it will all happen with CA 2018 Necrons will become THE top tier army

Right now we got nerfed, wraiths only ignore models/terrain in the movement phase.

The 1st turn cover strat is probably a buff for warrior hordes. Hard to get all those critters in terrain.

Right now we got nerfed, wraiths only ignore models/terrain in the movement phase.

That happened to everything with fly so it's not a necron nerf particularly.

DDArk heavy builds get some mileage with the new Cover Strat, which is nice. Otherwise still waiting on those point drops.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The 1st turn cover strat is probably a buff for warrior hordes. Hard to get all those critters in terrain.

Right now we got nerfed, wraiths only ignore models/terrain in the movement phase.

That happened to everything with fly so it's not a necron nerf particularly.

Wraiths don't have fly, shouldn't be affected

torblind wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The 1st turn cover strat is probably a buff for warrior hordes. Hard to get all those critters in terrain.

Right now we got nerfed, wraiths only ignore models/terrain in the movement phase.

That happened to everything with fly so it's not a necron nerf particularly.

Wraiths don't have fly, shouldn't be affected

Read the necron FAQ update Wraith dont have FLY, but they got nerfed too. Because GW knows necron SUCK, and they need help.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The 1st turn cover strat is probably a buff for warrior hordes. Hard to get all those critters in terrain.

Right now we got nerfed, wraiths only ignore models/terrain in the movement phase.

That happened to everything with fly so it's not a necron nerf particularly.

Wraiths don't have fly, shouldn't be affected

Read the necron FAQ update Wraith dont have FLY, but they got nerfed too. Because GW knows necron SUCK, and they need help.

My-my... That was unpleasant.

Doesn't the fly change mean that, by raw, any model receiving a second move in for example the psychic phase won't have the benefit of the fly keyword if they have it? Or does the wording of the powers circumvent this?

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Doesn't the fly change mean that, by raw, any model receiving a second move in for example the psychic phase won't have the benefit of the fly keyword if they have it? Or does the wording of the powers circumvent this?

Wrong thread ? You should be asking this in the BA tactics thread.

I know warptime says it gets to move as if its the movement phase so it probably isnt an issue.

Back to necrons, as a silver tide player i am loving the idea of 3+/5++ turn 1 protection. It may not make a lot of difference but all we need is 1 warrior left alive to get our reanimation proto's, so yeah this is great!

 p5freak wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Doesn't the fly change mean that, by raw, any model receiving a second move in for example the psychic phase won't have the benefit of the fly keyword if they have it? Or does the wording of the powers circumvent this?

Wrong thread ? You should be asking this in the BA tactics thread.

No. In my meta warptimed daemon princes and wings of sanguinius'd dreadnoughts are prevalent in bypassing my screens, so I was just wondering

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Doesn't the fly change mean that, by raw, any model receiving a second move in for example the psychic phase won't have the benefit of the fly keyword if they have it? Or does the wording of the powers circumvent this?

Wrong thread ? You should be asking this in the BA tactics thread.

No. In my meta warptimed daemon princes and wings of sanguinius'd dreadnoughts are prevalent in bypassing my screens, so I was just wondering

Well, wings of sanguinius gives you the FLY keyword and 12" movement until your next psychic phase, so you can can still move 12" in the psychic phase, as if you were in the movement phase. So you still ignore terrain/models.

 p5freak wrote:


Well, wings of sanguinius gives you the FLY keyword and 12" movement until your next psychic phase, so you can can still move 12" in the psychic phase, as if you were in the movement phase. So you still ignore terrain/models.

Yeah, that's what I figured

We should be able to use the Deceiver to Grand Illusion the Monolith up and then disembark like a transport now, though, at least. Or a Night Scythe if you wanted to with the Deceiver.

Then invasion beam stuff in on turn one since it acts like disembarking.

FAQ wrote:Page 98 – Monolith, Eternity Gate Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’
Page 102 – Night Scythe, Invasion Beams Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’

Turn one charges inc.

Bizazedo wrote:
We should be able to use the Deceiver to Grand Illusion the Monolith up and then disembark like a transport now, though, at least. Or a Night Scythe if you wanted to with the Deceiver.

Then invasion beam stuff in on turn one since it acts like disembarking.

FAQ wrote:Page 98 – Monolith, Eternity Gate Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’
Page 102 – Night Scythe, Invasion Beams Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’

Turn one charges inc.

Interesting indeed. It may note have been their intention.

Question is - these guys are clearly not setup on the battlefield during deployment, so as such would be caught by the turn 2 reinforcements rule. In that sense it means little if they are treated as disembarking from a transport. they still weren't setup on the battlefield during deployment.

Bizazedo wrote:
We should be able to use the Deceiver to Grand Illusion the Monolith up and then disembark like a transport now, though, at least. Or a Night Scythe if you wanted to with the Deceiver.

Then invasion beam stuff in on turn one since it acts like disembarking.

FAQ wrote:Page 98 – Monolith, Eternity Gate Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’
Page 102 – Night Scythe, Invasion Beams Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read: ‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.’

Turn one charges inc.

Currently, no. Even though they count as disembarking from a Transport, they are also still treated as reinforcements. They just have additional rules granted by the vehicle that they disembark from.

Yeah, they aren't actually in the vehicle. They are in reserves.
Necron transports don't work like everyone else's.

Normally, I'd agree with you guys, except for two things.

This change to the Monolith and the NScythe were done during this FAQ in joint with tactical reserve.

And

FAQ wrote:
the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes.

That means it's considered as being from a transport, not reserves. The rest is just to preserve the "if the only monolith / NScythe dies, everything dies".

According to the new Reserve Rules:
Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

This would still affect the unit you wish to pull with a Monolith or with a Night Scythe, as, rules as written, they would still need to be pulled from reserves before they would be treated as disembarking as normal. That part of the rule applies after the unit has been selected from reserves in the first place.

Oh cool, another utterly unnecessary nerf to one of our CC units. Why did they do that to Wraiths? If you play with a lot of terrian this isn't even just a minor nerf either, it's significant. They have wraithflight, ignoring terrain at all times is the ENTIRE POINT

Cynista wrote:
Oh cool, another utterly unnecessary nerf to one of our CC units. Why did they do that to Wraiths? If you play with a lot of terrian this isn't even just a minor nerf either, it's significant. They have wraithflight, ignoring terrain at all times is the ENTIRE POINT

I think it's mostly for consistency reasons. Harlequins got the same thing.

Darsath wrote:
According to the new Reserve Rules:
Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

This would still affect the unit you wish to pull with a Monolith or with a Night Scythe, as, rules as written, they would still need to be pulled from reserves before they would be treated as disembarking as normal. That part of the rule applies after the unit has been selected from reserves in the first place.

That would be true if the FAQ change didn't say we treated them as disembarking from a transport. They're not considered reinforcements.

I know what you're getting at, that originally they're considered on the Tomb World, but the FAQ explicitly says to treat them when disembarking for all rules purposes
All rules purposes. And that was added at the same time as the tactical reserves.

Like, let me ask you, why else would you change the wording to that as it only affects disembarking? Why not just leave it as is?

(Not saying I'm right, btw, just find it fascinating. I wouldn't do it yet without opponent buy-in).

Bizazedo wrote:

Darsath wrote:
According to the new Reserve Rules:
Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

This would still affect the unit you wish to pull with a Monolith or with a Night Scythe, as, rules as written, they would still need to be pulled from reserves before they would be treated as disembarking as normal. That part of the rule applies after the unit has been selected from reserves in the first place.

That would be true if the FAQ change didn't say we treated them as disembarking from a transport. They're not considered reinforcements.

I know what you're getting at, that originally they're considered on the Tomb World, but the FAQ explicitly says to treat them when disembarking for all rules purposes
All rules purposes. And that was added at the same time as the tactical reserves.

Like, let me ask you, why else would you change the wording to that as it only affects disembarking? Why not just leave it as is?

(Not saying I'm right, btw, just find it fascinating. I wouldn't do it yet without opponent buy-in).

That's only if you ignore the first part of the statement:

"Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes"

Since you have to set them up before you treat them as having disembarked, you can't do on on Turn 1, since you can't Set Up Reserves on Turn 1.

Darsath wrote:
According to the new Reserve Rules:
Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

This would still affect the unit you wish to pull with a Monolith or with a Night Scythe, as, rules as written, they would still need to be pulled from reserves before they would be treated as disembarking as normal. That part of the rule applies after the unit has been selected from reserves in the first place.

I'm inclined to agree with Bizazedo. They are no longer "not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive mid-game as reinforcements", they now arrive as units disembarking from a transport. But as per f*****g usual the necron faq needs an faq, as it's still very much ambiguous and could be either way, both raw and rai.

Requizen wrote:
[

"Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes"

Since you have to set them up before you treat them as having disembarked, you can't do on on Turn 1, since you can't Set Up Reserves on Turn 1.

Except that, due to the semicolon use, it's part of the same statement. Semicolons represent a pause, not an order of operation. I know you all are fans of RAW, so, semicolon definition:

Grammar and Punctuation Handbook wrote:

When a semicolon is used to join two or more ideas (parts) in a sentence, those ideas are then given equal position or rank. Some people write with a word processor; others write with a pen or pencil. Use a semicolon between two independent clauses that are connected by conjunctive adverbs or transitional phrases.

So it happens at the same time.

Bizazedo wrote:

Requizen wrote:
[

"Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes"

Since you have to set them up before you treat them as having disembarked, you can't do on on Turn 1, since you can't Set Up Reserves on Turn 1.

Except that, due to the semicolon use, it's part of the same statement. Semicolons represent a pause, not an order of operation. I know you all are fans of RAW, so, semicolon definition:

Grammar and Punctuation Handbook wrote:

When a semicolon is used to join two or more ideas (parts) in a sentence, those ideas are then given equal position or rank. Some people write with a word processor; others write with a pen or pencil. Use a semicolon between two independent clauses that are connected by conjunctive adverbs or transitional phrases.

So it happens at the same time.

This is weird, since that would mean that the latter half of the sentence wouldn't take precedence either, since they're both of equal rank. We can read rules and intended, but rules as written, it's kind of contradictory.

Bizazedo wrote:

Requizen wrote:
[

"Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes"

Since you have to set them up before you treat them as having disembarked, you can't do on on Turn 1, since you can't Set Up Reserves on Turn 1.

Except that, due to the semicolon use, it's part of the same statement. Semicolons represent a pause, not an order of operation. I know you all are fans of RAW, so, semicolon definition:

Grammar and Punctuation Handbook wrote:

When a semicolon is used to join two or more ideas (parts) in a sentence, those ideas are then given equal position or rank. Some people write with a word processor; others write with a pen or pencil. Use a semicolon between two independent clauses that are connected by conjunctive adverbs or transitional phrases.

So it happens at the same time.

Dude. Seriously? That makes top 3 pedantic gak I've seen posted here.

Also, the second part of the sentence says "the unit that has just been set up", which indicates there is an ordering. So... you have to set up before you can treat it differently. The sentence structure doesn't even agree with you, if you want to talk about grammar.

Darsath wrote:

This is weird, since that would mean that the latter half of the sentence wouldn't take precedence either, since they're both of equal rank. We can read rules and intended, but rules as written, it's kind of contradictory.

Yeah. I'd like 'em to just clarify it since it looks like it's meant to bypass the deep strike rules, but given what Necron can do if it does if they get lucky enough to go first....I dunno.

Requizen wrote:

Dude. Seriously? That makes top 3 pedantic gak I've seen posted here.

Also, the second part of the sentence says "the unit that has just been set up", which indicates there is an ordering. So... you have to set up before you can treat it differently. The sentence structure doesn't even agree with you, if you want to talk about grammar.

Pfft, I've seen far worse . Any RAW argument is pedantic. If we're not going to discuss what a semicolon means, then it should all be RAI.

And I disagree with you, respectfully.

Respect the semicolon!

I'm not going to continue to harp on it, but I just think it looks like it's meant to bypass the DS rule.