Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Technically, you CAN MWBD Destroyers, and that makes their shooting 2+, rerolling 1s without shelling out for extermination protocols. Just can't do Tomb Blades since they are bikes.

That being said, yeah, removing that requirement would certainly make for some interesting changes in gameplay. If it was changed to any [Dynasty] unit.../grin

I mean it isn't like they foresaw an issue with Canoptek units or Ark variations right? Hell, Monoliths wouldn't be a terrible target for it (though not the best), and it would help justify the 100+ points we gotta spend on HQ units.

Other armies get character buffs to both infantry and vehicles, right?

I doubt it'll happen but I would love the option of adding Quantum shielding to more of our vehicles, even if we have to purchase it as an addon.

Heck even a strategy or something to give a vehicle that normally doesn't have QS the ability, even if you can only use it once like Ressurection Protocol for characters would be nice.

torblind wrote:
Other armies get character buffs to both infantry and vehicles, right?

Yes.

However, +1 to hit is better than reroll 1s, which is generally what happens.

Then again, they get Auras, and Crons get one single unit...

In Kill Team MWBD affects all models within 6". Could indicate a change in design philosophy, but is more likely just there to account for the ability being especially crappy if it only affected one model.

So...has anyone else noticed how useless the lightning field is?
It says every unit within 1" of the bearer takes a mortal wound on a 4+.
Every unit. In what scenario would you be engaged with multiple units in such a case that dealing a single mortal would matter?
I really think someone fethed up and meant to write model but was thinking of Starcraft or something, but as it still hasn't been FAQ'd they might seriously think this is a good relic.

On a similar note, the gauntlet of conflagration is also a piece of crap. Its a one use seismic assault that has 8" range. Woo scary.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed how useless the lightning field is?
It says every unit within 1" of the bearer takes a mortal wound on a 4+.
Every unit. In what scenario would you be engaged with multiple units in such a case that dealing a single mortal would matter?
I really think someone fethed up and meant to write model but was thinking of Starcraft or something, but as it still hasn't been FAQ'd they might seriously think this is a good relic.

On a similar note, the gauntlet of conflagration is also a piece of crap. Its a one use seismic assault that has 8" range. Woo scary.

It's taken for the 4++ isn't it

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed how useless the lightning field is?
It says every unit within 1" of the bearer takes a mortal wound on a 4+.
Every unit. In what scenario would you be engaged with multiple units in such a case that dealing a single mortal would matter?
I really think someone fethed up and meant to write model but was thinking of Starcraft or something, but as it still hasn't been FAQ'd they might seriously think this is a good relic.

On a similar note, the gauntlet of conflagration is also a piece of crap. Its a one use seismic assault that has 8" range. Woo scary.

It's taken for the 4++ isn't it

But you get a 4++ from the phase shifter already if you take an overlord or a destroyer lord. Which you generally would want to be engaged in combat.
You should never have your crypteks exposed to enemy attack. If they are exposed you have done something wrong.
And besides, there are much better relics to put on crypteks. Like the veil of darkness or any of the staffs.

And that still doesn't change the fact that that part of the relic is functionally useless. You should take a relic for everything it offers, not just one aspect of it. That's just good game design.
Its not as if per model would have been OP. Its 1" of the bearer, so at most you would be able to effect what, 5 models? A few more if its a destroyer lord. So on a 4+ you'd be able to deal 2-3 mortal wounds, statistically speaking. Meanwhile you have psykers pulling mortal wounds out of their butts.

You take it for the 4++ for the CCB is what I meant to say.

4+ for a MW for each model, and 4++ to boot, could be seen as OP.

torblind wrote:
You take it for the 4++ for the CCB is what I meant to say.

4+ for a MW for each model, and 4++ to boot, could be seen as OP.

Its still only in the fight phase and has to be within 1" of an enemy model and has a 50% chance of proccing. The damage output isn't what I would call OP.
If your worried about the damage output, it could be D3 mortal wounds per unit on a 4+ or something. That would cap the damage output yet at the same time inflict more than 1.
But yes, it would be useful on the CCB, that is true. Is it really good design though for a relic to be good on only 1 model?

I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

torblind wrote:
I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

Which is also poor design. Overlords and lords should take phylacteries too. That's the problem with the necron codex - its really restrictive for arbitrary reasons. There's no reason why I can't give the Destroyer Lord a void scythe, for example.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:
I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

Which is also poor design. Overlords and lords should take phylacteries too. That's the problem with the necron codex - its really restrictive for arbitrary reasons. There's no reason why I can't give the Destroyer Lord a void scythe, for example.

Because hitting on 4's rerolling 1's would be bad? Like, really bad?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:
I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

Which is also poor design. Overlords and lords should take phylacteries too. That's the problem with the necron codex - its really restrictive for arbitrary reasons. There's no reason why I can't give the Destroyer Lord a void scythe, for example.

Because hitting on 4's rerolling 1's would be bad? Like, really bad?

But what if I want to though? What if I want to hit something really hard without a relic?
He actually hits more times than the Overlord with a voidscythe according to mathhammer, so its not that bad.
The voidscythe is overpriced anyway.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:
I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

Which is also poor design. Overlords and lords should take phylacteries too. That's the problem with the necron codex - its really restrictive for arbitrary reasons. There's no reason why I can't give the Destroyer Lord a void scythe, for example.

Because hitting on 4's rerolling 1's would be bad? Like, really bad?

But what if I want to though? What if I want to hit something really hard without a relic?
He actually hits more times often than the Overlord with a voidscythe according to mathhammer, so its not that bad.
The voidscythe is overpriced anyway.

I agree 100% that Necrons need more customizability in their codex, and having a DLord with the voidscythe is perfectly valid.

Still custom-designing some relics to plug holes in the rules/codex I'm ok with. It's a complex game system to design, a few emergency fixes is fine.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:
I don't mind. Same with the super phylactery for the Destroyer Lord

Which is also poor design. Overlords and lords should take phylacteries too. That's the problem with the necron codex - its really restrictive for arbitrary reasons. There's no reason why I can't give the Destroyer Lord a void scythe, for example.

Because hitting on 4's rerolling 1's would be bad? Like, really bad?

But what if I want to though? What if I want to hit something really hard without a relic?
He actually hits more times than the Overlord with a voidscythe according to mathhammer, so its not that bad.
The voidscythe is overpriced anyway.

Well it's a 3+ rerolling 1's and then you subtract the -1. Then Lords just hit a straight 2 times.

You hit 7/12 times on a 3+ rerolling ones.

Oh yeah I forgot he has 4 attacks. Whoops.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You hit 7/12 times on a 3+ rerolling ones.

two dice rolls 6*6 = 36 options. If you roll 3-6 on the first dice then it's a hit. That's 24/36. 6/36 times you'll roll a 1 and can re-roll that dice, 4 out of those 6 times that will translate into a roll of 3+ and will yield a hit. 24/36+4/36=28/36. Shortened to 7/9 or 4.7/6.

Voidscythe has an average of 2 hits, vs the D-Lord's average of 7/9*4=3,1 hits. Assuming T 1,2,3 or 6 they do the same damage. But against T 4,5 and 7 the Voidscythe does slightly better and against T8 (Knights) the voidscythe is twice as good. Voidscythe Overlord is also far cheaper than a D-Lord.

Whoops! I meant 4+.

That’s my bad-but I was talking about the 3+ with a -1 penalty.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Whoops! I meant 4+.

That’s my bad-but I was talking about the 3+ with a -1 penalty.

And what unit hits on a 3+ with a -1 penalty? Overlords have WS 2+ and are the only units in the codex which are able to take a melee weapon with a negative hit modifier.

Hypothetical Destroyer Lord with a voidscythe.

Hello,

How bad is our Codex really?
During my last Games (Guard, Aeldari, Drukhari, Thousand Sons and Raven Guard all lost btw, mostly between 1250 and 2000 pt) this thought ocurred quite often to me. Most of these Games were not even close ones.

Our Point Costs and crappy rule synergies are the greatest Problem.

 vict0988 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
You hit 7/12 times on a 3+ rerolling ones.

two dice rolls 6*6 = 36 options. If you roll 3-6 on the first dice then it's a hit. That's 24/36. 6/36 times you'll roll a 1 and can re-roll that dice, 4 out of those 6 times that will translate into a roll of 3+ and will yield a hit. 24/36+4/36=28/36. Shortened to 7/9 or 4.7/6.

Voidscythe has an average of 2 hits, vs the D-Lord's average of 7/9*4=3,1 hits. Assuming T 1,2,3 or 6 they do the same damage. But against T 4,5 and 7 the Voidscythe does slightly better and against T8 (Knights) the voidscythe is twice as good. Voidscythe Overlord is also far cheaper than a D-Lord.

The Overlord could also buff himself in the scenario presented, but whether that's a waste of a MWBD is up to you.

Manous wrote:
Hello,

How bad is our Codex really?
During my last Games (Guard, Aeldari, Drukhari, Thousand Sons and Raven Guard all lost btw, mostly between 1250 and 2000 pt) this thought ocurred quite often to me. Most of these Games were not even close ones.

Our Point Costs and crappy rule synergies are the greatest Problem.

We’re fine in casual games. In this context I’m loving our new Codex versus 6th and 7th! The Dynasty options are really engaging and thebuild options are deep.

Competitive environments have unsolvable dilemmas for us and scenarios where we are out-valued on the board. We are firmly bottom tier in that context.

All in all, I prefer this to the reverse! At least we aren’t trapped in a situation where we have few build choices, all of which are OP.

Manous wrote:
Hello,

How bad is our Codex really?
During my last Games (Guard, Aeldari, Drukhari, Thousand Sons and Raven Guard all lost btw, mostly between 1250 and 2000 pt) this thought ocurred quite often to me. Most of these Games were not even close ones.

Our Point Costs and crappy rule synergies are the greatest Problem.

What's your list and their lists look like?
I've been following the ITC scene for a while and Necrons overall finish with <40% win rate (SOCAL, LVO, etc.). This is in line with other underperforming factions as well, Grey Knights and Space Marines. In casual games, they seem fine. But are lagging behind in competitive.

Necronplayer wrote:

Manous wrote:
Hello,

How bad is our Codex really?
During my last Games (Guard, Aeldari, Drukhari, Thousand Sons and Raven Guard all lost btw, mostly between 1250 and 2000 pt) this thought ocurred quite often to me. Most of these Games were not even close ones.

Our Point Costs and crappy rule synergies are the greatest Problem.

What's your list and their lists look like?
I've been following the ITC scene for a while and Necrons overall finish with <40% win rate (SOCAL, LVO, etc.). This is in line with other underperforming factions as well, Grey Knights and Space Marines. In casual games, they seem fine. But are lagging behind in competitive.

Well I mostly play what i have in my collection. Mostly 6-10 Destroyers, Overlord, Cryptek. 1-2 Full Squads Immortals, 1 C´tan and 6 Wraiths.
Most of the time my troops are gone T2 same goes for the C´tan.

Most of my enemies lists are the following:

Guard: Many Leeman Russ and Infantry Squads.
T Sons: Tzaangor and Psyker Rush
Drukhari; Ravagers, Razorwings and Kabalites in Raiders (this army is my absolute nemesis, I loose in about 90% of the games without standing a chance)
Raven Guard: Knights supported by Intercessors and Hellblasters.

Ah, no wonder you have having trouble. Necrons struggle against those army comps.

They have a dirth of multi damage weapons, so vehicle spam hurts them.
They don't have good psy defense, so psyker spam hurts them.
They don't really have any good means at dealing with knights and lords of war. But then again, LoW are pretty bs anyway.

I'm having some success against tyranids at my FLGS. Sort of. I say sort of because I lose on victory points, but if I manage to wipe him out before the game ends I win by default. I somehow lose less models than he does.
I still lose most of my units, so its more of a phyrric victory. Makes for some great games though.

Tried nihilahk against him today, without a doomsday ark. Not sure I'm a fan of it, even if I were to have a DDA. You really want to move a lot to claim objectives, especially in a maelstrom game, which runs counter to the dynastic code.
The relic is nice though. That 5+++ is pretty useful, even if the reroll is disappointing.
I think Nephrekh and Novokh are my favorites so far. Nephrekh is great for board control, and Novokh is useful if you want to be aggressive or are against an army that wants to be in assault.

IG Lemons can be dealt with mathematically with Doomsday Arks, in a vacuum the Leman Russ is the DDA's ideal target (multi-wound model with high toughness and no invuln). The problem is the extreme variance on the Doomsday Ark, one-shotting a russ and whiffing entirely are both completely within the realm of possibility.