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 IHateNids wrote:
He just said that he went first, and the marine player conceded T1...

Oh wow, I missed that.
Huh, that's some good shooting. I think the marine player might have made some poor deployment choices. Some screening would have been useful.

There's several threads dedicated to why Marines dont have Screens anymore...

either way, it's chill, I did a double check as well

 Sasori wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
They also said that Necrons would get the biggest change from index to codex... what really changed?

Wraiths up to 2 damage and up in points?

While your hyperbole is great and all, there were a lot of changes from the Index to the codex. Dynasties, stratagems, artifacts. Several units got significant buffs like destroyers and the DD Ark, C'tan, the Vault, etc..etc.. I'm not going to go through every single change, but yes, the changes were significant.

That being said, they clearly failed when it came to points costs for many units. If we go by what they said, this has been recognized and we should get some appropriate drops to many of our units. I am hopeful at least.

Changes from Index to Codex:

*Dynasties, more powers of the C'tan, Relics, Stratagems and Warlord Traits.
*Lower prices for Overlords, Lords, Crypteks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Spyder, Heavy Destroyers, Dispersion Shields, Heavy Gauss Cannons. <s>Of course, Monoliths got cheaper as well.</s> whoops, seems someone forgot to buff the Monolith.
*Lords let you re-roll Wound rolls of 1 for nearby Infantry units instead of giving them a worthless Morale bonus.
*C'tan know one extra power each.
*You get -1 to hit when shooting at Tomb Blades.
*Gauss cannons fire 3 S6 shots instead of 2 S5 shots.
*Transcendent C'tan get a personality trait or two if you are willing to roll randomly.
*Doomsday Ark fires D6 shots all the time rather than D3 normally and D6 while firing the big profile at units with 10+ models.
*Tesseract Vault gets a 4+ invulnerable save.
*Wraiths are more expensive, they can now fall back and charge and they are AP-2 D2 instead of AP-1 D1.
*Scarabs are WS4+ instead of 3+.
*Flayed Ones lost an attack.
*Doomsday Ark gets hovering... Annihilation Barge and Catacomb Command Barge eventually get it through Errata.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
They also said that Necrons would get the biggest change from index to codex... what really changed?

Wraiths up to 2 damage and up in points?

While your hyperbole is great and all, there were a lot of changes from the Index to the codex. Dynasties, stratagems, artifacts. Several units got significant buffs like destroyers and the DD Ark, C'tan, the Vault, etc..etc.. I'm not going to go through every single change, but yes, the changes were significant.

That being said, they clearly failed when it came to points costs for many units. If we go by what they said, this has been recognized and we should get some appropriate drops to many of our units. I am hopeful at least.

Changes from Index to Codex:

*Dynasties, more powers of the C'tan, Relics, Stratagems and Warlord Traits.
*Lower prices for Overlords, Lords, Crypteks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Spyder, Heavy Destroyers, Dispersion Shields, Heavy Gauss Cannons. <s>Of course, Monoliths got cheaper as well.</s> whoops, seems someone forgot to buff the Monolith.
*Lords let you re-roll Wound rolls of 1 for nearby Infantry units instead of giving them a worthless Morale bonus.
*C'tan know one extra power each.
*You get -1 to hit when shooting at Tomb Blades.
*Gauss cannons fire 3 S6 shots instead of 2 S5 shots.
*Transcendent C'tan get a personality trait or two if you are willing to roll randomly.
*Doomsday Ark fires D6 shots all the time rather than D3 normally and D6 while firing the big profile at units with 10+ models.
*Tesseract Vault gets a 4+ invulnerable save.
*Wraiths are more expensive, they can now fall back and charge and they are AP-2 D2 instead of AP-1 D1.
*Scarabs are WS4+ instead of 3+.
*Flayed Ones lost an attack.
*Doomsday Ark gets hovering... Annihilation Barge and Catacomb Command Barge eventually get it through Errata.

Thanks for the list!

This will help when we get the CA, so we can see from Index-Codex-Chapter Approved.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
They also said that Necrons would get the biggest change from index to codex... what really changed?

Wraiths up to 2 damage and up in points?

While your hyperbole is great and all, there were a lot of changes from the Index to the codex. Dynasties, stratagems, artifacts. Several units got significant buffs like destroyers and the DD Ark, C'tan, the Vault, etc..etc.. I'm not going to go through every single change, but yes, the changes were significant.

That being said, they clearly failed when it came to points costs for many units. If we go by what they said, this has been recognized and we should get some appropriate drops to many of our units. I am hopeful at least.

Changes from Index to Codex:

*Dynasties, more powers of the C'tan, Relics, Stratagems and Warlord Traits.
*Lower prices for Overlords, Lords, Crypteks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Spyder, Heavy Destroyers, Dispersion Shields, Heavy Gauss Cannons. <s>Of course, Monoliths got cheaper as well.</s> whoops, seems someone forgot to buff the Monolith.
*Lords let you re-roll Wound rolls of 1 for nearby Infantry units instead of giving them a worthless Morale bonus.
*C'tan know one extra power each.
*You get -1 to hit when shooting at Tomb Blades.
*Gauss cannons fire 3 S6 shots instead of 2 S5 shots.
*Transcendent C'tan get a personality trait or two if you are willing to roll randomly.
*Doomsday Ark fires D6 shots all the time rather than D3 normally and D6 while firing the big profile at units with 10+ models.
*Tesseract Vault gets a 4+ invulnerable save.
*Wraiths are more expensive, they can now fall back and charge and they are AP-2 D2 instead of AP-1 D1.
*Scarabs are WS4+ instead of 3+.
*Flayed Ones lost an attack.
*Doomsday Ark gets hovering... Annihilation Barge and Catacomb Command Barge eventually get it through Errata.

Scarabs and Spyders both got FLY.
Spyders only take 1 MW on a failed Scarab Hive roll, as opposed to the D3 from the index.

Oh man I'd be so happy if they made scarab farms a thing again. I didn't play during 6th or 7th so I missed out on that playstyle.

Doctoralex wrote:
Had a véry short game against a Raven guard gunline of hellblasters, lasdevs and predators.

I won't go into my list in full detail but two things:

Quantum Shielding is just so amazing when your opponent has no answer to it.
When the Deceiver rolls well (going first, roll a 3 for Grand Illusion).... hoooly gak. 40x Warriors and a Cryptek, followed by an Overlord who Veil'd up 10 Tesla Immortals. (Mephrit btw)

Killed 10 Hellblasters, 8 Devastators and plucked the odd scout here and there. The two DDA's made mincemeat of a Predator. My opponent conceded at the start of his turn....

This... is not a very indicative game. You got the extreme high roll of maximum Grand Illusion value going first against a fairly weak list.

So just switching up my army now from Tau to Necrons as a bit more of a change of pace. I don't really like the play style of Tau much right now so want something more well rounded for close combat but also have some shooty stuff.

What kind of list could I make with the following (got a sweet deal on this). I was thinking of doing a unit of 10 lychgaurd with shields and putting them in a nightsythe, leading the army with a CCB and a cryptek with all the warriors and the unit of immortals then using the scarabs and the wraiths for more close combat.

24 warriors
5 immortals with gauss
5 deathmarks
6 Tomb blades
1 Doomsday Ark
1 catacomb command barge
1 doomsythe
3 wraiths
3 scarab swarms
10 lychgaurd (unbuilt)
1 overlord
1 cryptek

I have been reading on here that the Flyers kind of suck tho and get targeted pretty quick? Does that mean I have to footslog the lychgaurd up the board? Was also considering using the Doomsday Ark as well!

Any help would be great

I lost an ITC game against an Ork horde list with my Supreme Novokh Construct list, I didn't forget my Flayed Ones but because my opponent denied DS very well I was able to do minimal damage with them before they got ganked. I was far too agressive, both with my Construct and my Nephrekh forces, which led to the Construct blowing up as many of my forces as my opponents, I could have either been more defensive with the Construct so it didn't blow or kept back my Immortals so they didn't die.

I lost an ITC game against a Harlequin newb with the same list. No Flayed Ones were heard or seen during the battle, if they had joined they would have won me the match. I deployed my Construct all the way back after out-deploying my opponent letting the Construct not be shot by any haywire cannons the entire game, it destroyed 4 characters, a couple of vehicles and a squad of Players over the course of the game, notably it did 0 damage with its obliterators turn 1-2 -1 to hit and 4+ invul is tough.

I won an ITC game with the same list against a list with 7 flyers, I killed the boots on the ground and won, Flayed Ones killed one of the units he had hiding in the back.

EDIT: I won an ITC game against Knights/Deathwatch with the same list. Only won by a couple of VP my opponent's crusader was mowing stuff down most of the game, although the Seraptek Construct did take a lot of heat off the rest of my army. The Seraptek Construct killed a Gallant, killed that Gallant again, a Watch Captain, a Helverin and finally 2 Scarabs and 5 Immortals. Flayed Ones were forgotten... Until turn 3, they failed their charge, took 15 casualties and ran away. Last game I'm using those until they get a pts drop, too risky to use. I'll brainstorm changes to my list, for now it looks like more Scarabs and more Immortals will replace the Flayed Ones.


I won an Eternal War game against a casual albeit Stygies Admech list with my Anrakyr Szeras Balance list, I took three units captive turn 2 and hid my Destroyers from his 3 Dunecrawlers the entire game. I forgot to consolidate with my Warriors turn 2 and my Triarch Praetorians turn 3. I forgot to use Szeras' buff turn 2 and forgot to fire my Immortals and Heavy Ds turn 3. I'm at quite a disadvantage with all the gak I forget because I always let my opponent's go back and try to point out when they forget things.



I won an ITC game with my triple Canoptek Tomb Sentinel list against a triple Riptide list. My infantry killed his infantry and I won on objectives.

I lost an ITC game with the same list against a triple Stormsurge list. Not enough anti-vehicle and this time around my opponent had enough firepower to kill me.

I think the list is poorly constructed, if I were to include Tomb Sentinels in another list it would be a heavily mechanized list (things without QS) otherwise DDAs are ten times better because of their lascannon resistance, with this army the Sentinels are the only good lascannon target which was poorly thought out. Sentinels are a poor choice for a competitive list, with the DS changes from CA 1 you're losing too much shooting when DDAs can shoot most anything on the board anyways and can't be blocked by DS denial.


I won an ITC game against a three Knight list including a Castellan with Cawl's Wrath with a Catachan Battalion pretty easily with my double Seraptek list. My opponent's list was far superior and with average rolls I would've been decimated but because of lucky rolls I was able to hang in there, exhaust his CP and kill all his stuff, otherwise I would've maybe gotten a minor loss because I would have been able to take board control even with poor rolls. Vault did about 6 unsaved wounds total each turn which is okay, but against defensive lists it's not OP like it is against medium range and melee lists. One thing to consider is how densely packed your boards are, I had to put one Construct behind the other because of lack of space, that's not conducive to winning games, so consider your average terrain setup before you go out and buy one of these beautiful but expensive beasts.

I figure there has been enough time that some people got some games in with our new toy.

Should I get a Seraptek? Is it worth the huge amount of points? It is such an awesome model...

Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

I heard something similar that this is intentionally and this is how they should feel...but this was shortly before our codex dropped or shortly afterwards I cant remember.

Could be that they changed their minds but i definitely dont expect ANY datasheet/rule changes. Only small (symbolic) point drops (1poimt on warrior one on maybe FOs)

Morkphoiz wrote:
I figure there has been enough time that some people got some games in with our new toy.

Should I get a Seraptek? Is it worth the huge amount of points? It is such an awesome model...

I would say yes, because they're always going to be valid in lists. It may not be Meta-levels, but do we really expect that?

I havent had a chance to use mine yet, but knowing my local it'll become the newest thorn in everyone's side. It will be a terror to Nids, it will be great fun to take against anything remotely armoured (although maybe not full Tank Company Guard), may be worth something against Eldar but I'm not sure.

Also, the singularity generators and sweep attacks are going to add a lot of anti-horde to our codex, and since Orks seem to be a big thing now, that might be worth looking into.

Just me 2p.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

I heard something similar that this is intentionally and this is how they should feel...but this was shortly before our codex dropped or shortly afterwards I cant remember.

Could be that they changed their minds but i definitely dont expect ANY datasheet/rule changes. Only small (symbolic) point drops (1poimt on warrior one on maybe FOs)

Good on GW for not owning up to the fact that necrons are a poorly designed faction. Horrible internal synergies, massively inconsistent durability and arbitrary restrictions on rules, not because of mistakes, no no, that's clearly the feel they were going for with the army.

I shake my head in every direction

Morkphoiz wrote:
Should I get a Seraptek? Is it worth the huge amount of points? It is such an awesome model...

No, not worth the points. Horrible defense. Do you really want a 625 pt. model in your army that can die T1, or get severly crippled, before you even get to move it ?

Sn33R wrote:Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

Strange, rvd1ofakind was very sure we get big point drops on many units......

IHateNids wrote:
Also, the singularity generators and sweep attacks are going to add a lot of anti-horde to our codex, and since Orks seem to be a big thing now, that might be worth looking into.

We already have good anti horde, tesla immortals. They are also much less expensive.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

I heard something similar that this is intentionally and this is how they should feel...but this was shortly before our codex dropped or shortly afterwards I cant remember.

Could be that they changed their minds but i definitely dont expect ANY datasheet/rule changes. Only small (symbolic) point drops (1poimt on warrior one on maybe FOs)

Good on GW for not owning up to the fact that necrons are a poorly designed faction. Horrible internal synergies, massively inconsistent durability and arbitrary restrictions on rules, not because of mistakes, no no, that's clearly the feel they were going for with the army.

I shake my head in every direction

My information on that comes from July (though I know there are others who have reported something similar), so it's entirely possible they've changed their perspective on the faction as a whole. However, if that's true, they've chosen to not showcase that change in any way for some unknown reason. It's more likely, but not guaranteed, that their opinions on the army as a whole haven't really changed since then.

Darsath wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

I heard something similar that this is intentionally and this is how they should feel...but this was shortly before our codex dropped or shortly afterwards I cant remember.

Could be that they changed their minds but i definitely dont expect ANY datasheet/rule changes. Only small (symbolic) point drops (1poimt on warrior one on maybe FOs)

Good on GW for not owning up to the fact that necrons are a poorly designed faction. Horrible internal synergies, massively inconsistent durability and arbitrary restrictions on rules, not because of mistakes, no no, that's clearly the feel they were going for with the army.

I shake my head in every direction

My information on that comes from July (though I know there are others who have reported something similar), so it's entirely possible they've changed their perspective on the faction as a whole. However, if that's true, they've chosen to not showcase that change in any way for some unknown reason. It's more likely, but not guaranteed, that their opinions on the army as a whole haven't really changed since then.

Candidly, I’m pretty sure that like most other niche factions, they don’t really think about Necrons at all.

Which is fine. In casual formats, we’re pretty rockin’! And there will always be a top tier and under performing tiers in competitive anyway, so it’s irrelevant who it is.

 p5freak wrote:

Strange, rvd1ofakind was very sure we get big point drops on many units......

IHateNids wrote:
Also, the singularity generators and sweep attacks are going to add a lot of anti-horde to our codex, and since Orks seem to be a big thing now, that might be worth looking into.

No, that was for the big FAQ, remember?

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

I heard something similar that this is intentionally and this is how they should feel...but this was shortly before our codex dropped or shortly afterwards I cant remember.

Could be that they changed their minds but i definitely dont expect ANY datasheet/rule changes. Only small (symbolic) point drops (1poimt on warrior one on maybe FOs)

Good on GW for not owning up to the fact that necrons are a poorly designed faction. Horrible internal synergies, massively inconsistent durability and arbitrary restrictions on rules, not because of mistakes, no no, that's clearly the feel they were going for with the army.

I shake my head in every direction

Well g dub said that wolves players will love their codex.. how wrong were they.
To be honest I'm surprised they even bother with our codex. I was reading on a another thread someone reckons admech are worse than us.

 p5freak wrote:

Morkphoiz wrote:
Should I get a Seraptek? Is it worth the huge amount of points? It is such an awesome model...

No, not worth the points. Horrible defense. Do you really want a 625 pt. model in your army that can die T1, or get severly crippled, before you even get to move it?

That's literally anything at all in the game right now though?

If you judge a unit by it's ability to survive insurmountable T1 firepower, there's no point in playing at all.

You take this thing because it can nuke two knights in a turn without too much of the maths favoring you. None of our other units can do that.

We already have good anti horde, tesla immortals. They are also much less expensive.

Having more than one option is nice.

From the Ork codex faq:

Q: If a Goff Gorkanaut attacks a unit with the Crush profile
of the Klaw of Gork (or possibly Mork), and the unmodified hit
roll is a 6 (allowing him to make an extra hit roll with the Klaw
due to the No Mukkin’ About kultur), does the extra hit roll
have to be made using the same profile, or can it be made with
the weapon’s other profile instead?
A: The extra hit roll is made using the same profile.

I'm assuming this would apply to a Novokh Seraptek within 6" of a model with the Crimson Haze trait, providing an answer to the discussion that was going on a few pages back

 IHateNids wrote:

That's literally anything at all in the game right now though?

Not really. Some units can hide out of LOS, some can be put into reinforcements, some units can get cover with the prepared positions stratagems, some units have quantum shielding. The seraptek monstrosity cant do any of these i mentioned.

 IHateNids wrote:

You take this thing because it can nuke two knights in a turn without too much of the maths favoring you. None of our other units can do that.

Two naked knights maybe, but not two with relics/warlord traits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:

No, that was for the big FAQ, remember?

No, he did say point drops will come with CA.

Yeah I was being half seriously only. Think he reworded his earlier statement back then

Yes, naked knights, but let’s be real the obnoxious combo can only be on one, in which case you focus fire & attacks and get rid.

It stands, thanks to the high wuund count and 5++ as a reasonable lump

It will not survive against ITC optimism, but there’s a) not much that will, and b) not a lot “normal” it wouldn’t wether (unless ITC is the only thing you have near you, I which case, I am sorry)

If you opponent want to nuke it he will, only at that point your other, arguably more useful stuff remains completely unharmed to be math guaranteed


@Morkphoiz, I still say get it, just because every report I’ve seen one in says the same, paraphrased to “good but not overpowered enough for life in competition”

Sn33R wrote:
Anyone heard anything about C.A rumours for us.. I've heard from a reliable source that were going to be pretty pissed. The t.v is going up and everything else is staying the same..

Ehh, I feel like GW has plenty of data to pull from at this point. I feel like we will get some pretty good point drops.

Apparently Deathmarks are going to go down by 2 points, but I don't know if that's true.
Source

taetrius67 wrote:
I have heard from French wargaming studio that Deathmarks will be 2 points less after Ca.

Somehow I got the stupid idea that only the stuff in the new battleforce gets point drops

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
From the Ork codex faq:

Q: If a Goff Gorkanaut attacks a unit with the Crush profile
of the Klaw of Gork (or possibly Mork), and the unmodified hit
roll is a 6 (allowing him to make an extra hit roll with the Klaw
due to the No Mukkin’ About kultur), does the extra hit roll
have to be made using the same profile, or can it be made with
the weapon’s other profile instead?
A: The extra hit roll is made using the same profile.

I'm assuming this would apply to a Novokh Seraptek within 6" of a model with the Crimson Haze trait, providing an answer to the discussion that was going on a few pages back

Yeah that seemed the most reasonable interpretation, the Novokh Seraptek still nukes Knights. You really don't need 24 stomps and 6 giga-chainsword attacks to kill a Knight, 10 attacks with the giga-chainsword profile is usually more than enough and against Boyz getting to attack with the bigger profile changes nothing.


I won an ITC game against Tau on turn 1 going first Deceivering 3 units with my new Nephrekh C'tan list. I rolled very well so my opponent had around 1k pts left before his first turn.

I won an ITC game against Dark Angels on my opponents turn 1 after having gone first with the same list. My opponent had 1900 left at the start of his turn, 700 at the end of his turn from a big Vault Explosion.

I won an ITC game against Thousand Sons with a couple of Plagueburst Crawlers with the same list turn 1 going first. Another 3 for the Deceiver, forgot to Advance and charge my Wraiths and didn't switch out Anti-matter Meteor on my Nightbringer for a third Cosmic Fire.

This list isn't really fun to pilot when your opponent just castles up and takes the MW challenge, then surrenders after you get first turn and nuke them into orbit. How much do I need to warn my opponents? Do I need to specifically say I'm going to beat them turn 1 if they don't screen against me infiltrating and doing a cosmic fire bomb turn 1? When you're taking a competitive list I don't think I need to explain how my combos work, as long as I explain all the pieces of the combo, the rest you ought to be able to figure out yourself if you're "good enough" to bring a competitive list and willing to play ITC. For now I'm just going to shelve the Deceiver bombs for very experienced players or when I'm playing in a tournament.


I won an ITC game against Thousand Sons with a couple of Plagueburst Crawlers with my new Destroyer DDA spam list. Triarch Stalker was bad, everything else more or less worked. I did waste 2 CP adding 1 to hit rolls against a unit, better to keep my meagre CP for re-roll everything on the Destroyers.


I tied an Eternal War game against a Tyranid newbie with my new Novokh Spyder Spam list. Spyders weren't as horrible as I feared, but they only managed to do something because my opponent flung his Genestealers into the middle of my army, letting me counter-charge, having 3 Deny the Witches each turn was very neat. Spyders are relatively easy to kill, but in this army they're less important targets than the Destroyers for lascannons and lasguns are better spent on Scarabs. I managed to get a total of 6 Scarabs back, pretty bad. 20 pts for 6 S6 AP- D1 shots hitting on 4s is stupidly overpriced. Spyders are just bad.

Yeah, Spyders need like a 20 pt drop or the character keyword to not be the worst unit in the codex

I actually ran a proxy Seraptek HC this evening vs Dark Angels.
It got its points back but was dead by turn 3, blowing up and killing the stuff that killed it in kind.
Nuked a Land Raider
Nuked a Squad of Aggressors
Charged and Wiped Out Land Raider Contents
Killed Librarian in Assault.

Ate a LOT of Plasma Inceptor Fire, Crippling it.

Moved into melee with Plasceptors
Killed 2
They fell back, it blew up, killing the rest of them.

Honestly, my earlier assessment was accurate. Solid Combat/damage output, slightly fragile. Had trouble keeping a cloaktek behind it to keep it healing reliably.