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Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

sieGermans wrote:That wasn’t his/her question. If we persist in this toxic negativity, then no one is going to come here for serious tactical discussions.

Discussing which units are worth their points, and which are not, is part of serious tactical discussions.

Red Corsair wrote:
1. It cannot be movement blocked and goes 16" this is major, normal knights can get movement blocked very easily.

It can be movement blocked by terrain because its huge and has a huge virtual base. You cant put it where is doesnt fit. Even if it would physically fit, the virtual base would not allow it. Its large movement value would be reduced to almost nothing by terrain. A simple munitorum armored container in its path would be an obstacle it cant move over. The rules say your model has to move up the piece of terrain, across it, and down again. If the container is 3" high and 3" wide it would have to spend 9" to move over it, 3 up, 3 across it, and 3 down. If the virtual base is 10" long it wouldnt be able to move over that container, because 19" move is needed for that.

Red Corsair wrote:
3. You can cloaktek and spyder repair this thing which is actually stronger then you might think.

Which adds even more points to it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

I would consider it at 525 pts. Or with better defense, like a 2+ sv or 4+ inv. Even D3 from living metal would satisfy me.

Red Corsair wrote:I think you need to look at what you can do with it that you cannot with most titans. You can deceiver him 12" away lol.

Thats another 225 points. Knights can deepstrike with a stratagem. Orks need a stratagem to deepstrike whatever they want, for 0 points. AM can deepstrike a baneblade, or any variant. Even multiple leman russes. With a stratagem, for 0 points.

Using the abilities of other models to benefit the Seraptek does not equate to slapping their points onto the Seraptek to give it the benefit the one ability. This is a dumbass fallacy that people keep using on here, stop it.

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact. Hide all you like, if I am back lining them into cramped spaces in their deployment for the first couple turns I have already won the mission 9/10 times. You have to remember the deceiver lets me redploy this M'fether after they are finished deploying which is good and bad. It's bad when they have infiltrators, but it is borderline broken when they don't. And I am seeing FAR less infiltrators after big FAQ 2. Space marines still use scouts, but then again space marines already blow .

I won a rulebook-style Eternal War mission against an Astra Militarum list with 3 Russes, a Shadowsword and a couple of Flyers and Basilisks piloted by a newish player using my double Battalion Unique list. My opponent went first and destroyed 2 squads of Immortals. I killed Pask, 30 Guardsmen and a FW Flyer, that's while rolling three 1s for number of shots on my DDAs. I ignored his Shadowsword because I had no viable targets for it and destroyed everything else while holding objectives. I used Vargard Obyron to constantly shift my Immortal squads forward.

I won a CA2018 Maelstrom mission against a casual SW/Astra Militarum list with Aggressors, Wulfen and Basilisks. My opponent got very unlucky with a ton of his rolls, while I got pretty lucky. I think I had a good chance regardless of luck. I forgot to use MWBD turn 3 because I had nothing to shoot and also didn't Advance, I could have Advanced 1+D6". I forgot about an active objective I had and moved away from an objective I needed to control turn 3 as well. I veiled Zahndrekh behind enemy lines and sent in a squad of Immortals to mess with my opponents rapier batteries, it worked pretty well.

My opponents were pretty wowed by the power of the list, but I've had that happen with Tesla Spam backed by DDAs previous to CA2018, the 340 pts is definitely not nothing. Vargard Obyron and Zahndrekh seem very nice in this list so far, I'm having a hard time imagining myself taking 30+ Immortals and not taking that combo. It's looking very good so far. I might have to get more Teslamortals so I can run the list without using Gauss Immortals for proxy, but I might just run Destroyers in tournaments instead because I recently bought enough of them.

Edit: I just won another game against a Taunar list going first, had I gone second I think I might have lost, the Triarch Stalker seems very important to answer Knights. I think running 3 Stalkers is really solid if you're just taking a Battalion and 3 DDAs.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact.

Ok, so you have the deceiver and the big monstrosity. Lets say you didnt get first turn. You decide not to redeploy it. You can still redeploy other units. In this case you are wasting the opportunity to get close with it. You want this thing to be close to your enemy, because its a melee monster, and has a huge explosion, if it blows up. But you cant charge after redeploying with the deceiver. You decide to redeploy it, and now its 12" from the enemy. But you cant charge on your first turn, all you can do is shoot. Still no melee first turn. On your opponents turn he can either move into half melta range, and position any anti TITANIC guns he might have. Or he can try to move far away from it, making your charge impossible, which might work, or not, depending on terrain and the speed of his units. The situation isnt much different when you do get first turn. Sure, you can try to kill some of your opponents AT guns, with little you have left, which isnt a monstrosity support unit.

Lets take a look at a possible supreme command detachment :



The cryptek is only there to support the monstrosity. The lord and overlord cant support the monstrosity, you would need more novokh units, otherwise they are useless. The deceiver has to redeploy it. He also has to redeploy the cryptek. So you need to roll a 2. With an additional spyder (another support only unit for the monstrosity, unless you take some scarabs) you need to roll a 3. What if you roll a 1, and the re-roll is also a 1, or 2 ?
You cant take the spider in a supreme command detachment, you need another novokh detachment. Novokh is CC oriented, which isnt good for your ranged combat abilities. Another dynasty, like nihilakh, would be better for shooting. You need CP as well, so you choose a battalion. You need two more HQs. You now have 5 (!) HQ units, which is a pretty hefty tax. You could pick a dlord, who can do something useful in melee, and isnt a support character, but he is more expensive.

Your list could look something like this. Overall, i think the cost to fully support the monstrosity is enormous :

I mean yes, like any good Lord of War you need to build you list around it. (Bar Knights, because Imperial Units must be The Bestest Ever(TM))

I think a Sautekh Detachment where everything gets up in your opponent's face, even done cheap with Warrior bricks would work wonders with this guy

He takes one flank by himself, and then the rest of the "advance" team takes the other, while the guns sit back. You can even take advantage of some of our small-footprint DS attacks like Flayers or Tomb Stalker/Sentinel if you wanna ruthlessly exploit a hole left by your first-turn firepower

in 2000 points it's an extrmely aggressive list, and through overwhelming numbers, you function as a reanimating Horde Mode

sounds like something to look into at any rate

 p5freak wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact.

Ok, so you have the deceiver and the big monstrosity. Lets say you didnt get first turn. You decide not to redeploy it. You can still redeploy other units. In this case you are wasting the opportunity to get close with it. You want this thing to be close to your enemy, because its a melee monster, and has a huge explosion, if it blows up. But you cant charge after redeploying with the deceiver. You decide to redeploy it, and now its 12" from the enemy. But you cant charge on your first turn, all you can do is shoot. Still no melee first turn. On your opponents turn he can either move into half melta range, and position any anti TITANIC guns he might have. Or he can try to move far away from it, making your charge impossible, which might work, or not, depending on terrain and the speed of his units. The situation isnt much different when you do get first turn. Sure, you can try to kill some of your opponents AT guns, with little you have left, which isnt a monstrosity support unit.

Lets take a look at a possible supreme command detachment :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 1090pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Lord [5 PL, 68pts]: Hyperphase Sword

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor, Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

++ Total: [60 PL, 1090pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The cryptek is only there to support the monstrosity. The lord and overlord cant support the monstrosity, you would need more novokh units, otherwise they are useless. The deceiver has to redeploy it. He also has to redeploy the cryptek. So you need to roll a 2. With an additional spyder (another support only unit for the monstrosity, unless you take some scarabs) you need to roll a 3. What if you roll a 1, and the re-roll is also a 1, or 2 ?
You cant take the spider in a supreme command detachment, you need another novokh detachment. Novokh is CC oriented, which isnt good for your ranged combat abilities. Another dynasty, like nihilakh, would be better for shooting. You need CP as well, so you choose a battalion. You need two more HQs. You now have 5 (!) HQ units, which is a pretty hefty tax. You could pick a dlord, who can do something useful in melee, and isnt a support character, but he is more expensive.

Your list could look something like this. Overall, i think the cost to fully support the monstrosity is enormous :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 1104pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Lord [5 PL, 75pts]: Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Staff of Light

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor, Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [54 PL, 891pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warlord, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 117pts]: 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

Canoptek Spyders [4 PL, 75pts]
. Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism

++ Total: [114 PL, 1995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Battalion Sahtek
cloaktek
immotek
10 immortals
10 immortals
5 immortals
DDA
DDA
stalker
Fab Spyder
Deceiver
SH sahtek
Seraptek heavy construct
1990

OR
Battalion Novokh
destroyer lord
cloaktek
5 immortals
5 immortals
5 immortals
DDA
DDA
6 wraiths
spyder F-claw prism
Deceiver
SH AUX Novokh
Seraptek

1972

That's me just spitting out two lists off the top of my head. The supreme command I'll admit is much harder, so I'd wager it's more beneficial to forgo the rerolls on the big boy, you can still swing twice with him using the Novokh strat which should be enough. The first list is more shooting oriented.

Keep in mind with both the Spyder and the Cloaktek that it is going to be hard to keep up with the full movement of the Seraptek. The Spyder especially will not be able to keep up, and needs to be within 1' for it's effect.

I think the tomb spyder is truly one of the worst units in the whole game. Not even a points drop would help it because you'd still rather take 2 or 3 more Immortals, or an extra Wraith.

It needs an entire rework and it's sad that my old metal one probably won't see the table for years

Sorry if it was posted earlier, does anyone have a run down of what we got with the new chapter approved?

bodazoka wrote:
Sorry if it was posted earlier, does anyone have a run down of what we got with the new chapter approved?

Check page 206.

I think the Spyder should be moved to elites, given the character keyword and receive a points drop to be worth taking.

Tbh, it has no business being a heavy support choice and should be like our ancient/biologus putrifier/whatever equivalent. That would also make a brigade more appealing, since we currently have no cheap elite choices


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of the worst things in the game, does anything have a worse aura than the Destroyer Lord?

It's a CC HQ who allows a single type of ranged unit to re-roll 1s to wound in a single phase (the shooting phase specifically, so the lord itself can't even really benefit), and the unit in question can pay 1 cp to re-roll everything anyway

That's unbelievably restrictive

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I think the Spyder should be moved to elites, given the character keyword and receive a points drop to be worth taking.

Tbh, it has no business being a heavy support choice and should be like our ancient/biologus putrifier/whatever equivalent. That would also make a brigade more appealing, since we currently have no cheap elite choices


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of the worst things in the game, does anything have a worse aura than the Destroyer Lord?

It's a CC HQ who allows a single type of ranged unit to re-roll 1s to wound in a single phase (the shooting phase specifically, so the lord itself can't even really benefit), and the unit in question can pay 1 cp to re-roll everything anyway

That's unbelievably restrictive

Two units, Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. The Red Terror from Codex Tyranids allows you to re-roll Hit rolls of 1 for Ravener units in the Fight phase, which is technically more restrictive because we get both Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers, but the Red Terror is going the same place Raveners are (into melee) while the Destroyer Lord doesn't really want to stay at max range to pop shots, he can serve as a counter-assault unit if your opponent sends melee units after your Destroyers.

The Destroyer Lord was extremely good with Wraiths in 6th, I think GW wanted to move away from that because it doesn't make much sense that a Destroyer Lord is leading Canoptek Wraiths. Many people seem to like taking him even without Destroyers, he's very far from one of the worst units in the game. I personally don't like him and have been running a duo of them in my Seraptek list for about 10 or so games and they have done relatively little most games, I think the investment was worth it before CA2018, but now I think we have more good things to spend our pts on and I'll probably just be taking the Seraptek in a Superheavy Auxiliary if not in a Superheavy with some combination of Pylons, Vaults and Obelisks. A couple of Serapteks and a Pylon will definitely tear most mechanised lists a new one, I'm not sure what Dynasty would be best, probably Nihilakh.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I think the Spyder should be moved to elites, given the character keyword and receive a points drop to be worth taking.

Tbh, it has no business being a heavy support choice and should be like our ancient/biologus putrifier/whatever equivalent. That would also make a brigade more appealing, since we currently have no cheap elite choices

I don't think Canoptek Spyders should be characters, but they do need some fething survivability.

Carnifexes used to have 4 wounds, they now have 8.

Canoptek Spyders used to have 3 wounds, they now have... 4.



What's more, Canoptek Spyders are in this weird position where they don't have any real role or function.
- They have a mediocre melee weapon, but poor WS, no support and terrible survivability.
- They can take a ranged weapon, but that just turns them into really crap Destroyers (drastically worse weapons, worse BS, no rerolls, less speed etc.).
- They can produce Scarab bases (at the risk of injuring themselves in the process), but it's hardly efficient and it means keeping fast scarabs back so that they can remain within 6" of the much slower Spyder.
- They can repair vehicles but there's really no reason to take them for this when you can instead take a Cryptek (which is faster, can't be targetted, and provides a buff to RPs).
- Their only unique ability is that they can deny psychic powers, which is nice as a bonus ability but not as the entire function of a 65pt model.

The wounds thing is what I find most baffling. They're these big, bulky things, yet they have fewer wounds than an Overlord.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

On the topic of the worst things in the game, does anything have a worse aura than the Destroyer Lord?

It's a CC HQ who allows a single type of ranged unit to re-roll 1s to wound in a single phase (the shooting phase specifically, so the lord itself can't even really benefit), and the unit in question can pay 1 cp to re-roll everything anyway

That's unbelievably restrictive

Dark Eldar have a couple of contenders:


All that said, I think the Necron Destroyer Lord might still edge them out. The fact that his aura only rerolls 1s when shooting, so that he can't even buff his own melee ability, is just abysmal.

I would like it if the Spyders were a buff giver to canoptek units.
Maybe move them to an HQ slot or something. I want to run pure canoptek armies in a battle forged battalion.

So, before I become that guy, this will be my last noob question: Is the Obelisk worth taking now? It seems pretty underwhelming with 4 guns without AP at nearly 400pts. Does the tesla rule make it good?

 vict0988 wrote:

The Destroyer Lord was extremely good with Wraiths in 6th, I think GW wanted to move away from that because it doesn't make much sense that a Destroyer Lord is leading Canoptek Wraiths. Many people seem to like taking him even without Destroyers, he's very far from one of the worst units in the game. I personally don't like him and have been running a duo of them in my Seraptek list for about 10 or so games and they have done relatively little most games, I think the investment was worth it before CA2018, but now I think we have more good things to spend our pts on and I'll probably just be taking the Seraptek in a Superheavy Auxiliary if not in a Superheavy with some combination of Pylons, Vaults and Obelisks. A couple of Serapteks and a Pylon will definitely tear most mechanised lists a new one, I'm not sure what Dynasty would be best, probably Nihilakh.

If that's the reason they made him synergise with nothing, then I'd have preferred it if they'd just changed the fluff to make Destroyer Lords Crypteks that had gone loopy and turned themselves and all their friends into jetbikes.

That'd be about as lazy as the Destroyer curse fluff they have atm, and at least make the unit fit mechanically

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I would like it if the Spyders were a buff giver to canoptek units.
Maybe move them to an HQ slot or something. I want to run pure canoptek armies in a battle forged battalion.

Something of an aside, but I think one of the biggest issues with the Necron book is Crypteks.

When they were first introduced, Crypteks basically functioned as special weapon carriers that could be attached to other squads (or kept together as their own mini-squad). As a result, they also functioned as a secondary element of customisation for Necrons, after the main HQs. Their equipment was a little hit and miss but there were still some good options and fun combinations available.

However, in 7th edition onwards, all those weapons and options were stripped away, leaving Crypteks as single-function HQs. They don't even use a different weapon to the rest of the Necron HQs. What's more, rather than bringing more options to the table, all Crypteks do now is tread on the toes of other Necron units. Improving RPs was always a function of Resurrection Orbs (and the Lords that carried them). However, that function was handed to Crypteks, leaving Resurrection Orbs as crappy, once-per-game items that are mere shadows for their former selves. What's more, Crypteks have also been given the ability to repair vehicles - something that would more logically be the job of Canoptek Spyders. And whilst the Spyders can technically still repair vehicles, the fact that they're no better at it than Crypteks (who are also immune to being shot) makes them a generally poor choice.

Put simply, I think that Crypteks need to be given their own unique rules - rather than just pilfering rules from other units,

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

If that's the reason they made him synergise with nothing, then I'd have preferred it if they'd just changed the fluff to make Destroyer Lords Crypteks that had gone loopy and turned themselves and all their friends into jetbikes.

I mean, they don't even need to have turned their friends into Jetbikes. It could be as simple as 'Destroyer Lords want to make the most of their Destroyer bodies, and frequently leave the bulk of the Necron infantry far behind, preferring instead to silently direct the Wraiths and Scarabs as they fly out to meet the enemy.'

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

That'd be about as lazy as the Destroyer curse fluff they have atm

Current Destroyer fluff in two words: "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!"

If the spider doesn't get the character keyword, scarabs should at least be made able to take hits for the spider.

vipoid wrote:
- They can repair vehicles but there's really no reason to take them for this when you can instead take a Cryptek (which is faster, can't be targetted, and provides a buff to RPs).

What i find hilarious is that they can repair any necron vehicle, but they cant fix each other, or themselves. They are monster.

Tiberius501 wrote:So, before I become that guy, this will be my last noob question: Is the Obelisk worth taking now?

No.

Heck, I remember back in 5th when Destroyer Lords weren't even their own separate thing, back then it was just a lord who had put on his destroyer pants that morning.

Which makes a lot more sense, as a robot, altering your body shouldn't be considered drastic or be permanent in any way. Why have a chariot when you can be your chariot, right?

 vipoid wrote:
- They can repair vehicles but there's really no reason to take them for this when you can instead take a Cryptek (which is faster, can't be targetted, and provides a buff to RPs).

I agree 100% that the Spyder needs to be improved to be useful, giving it Character seems right, but regarding above, you can take the Cryptek regardless of what you do with the Spyder, neither discourages the other, so that's hardly a reason. ( I happily take both if I want some piece of machinery to stay alive)

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Heck, I remember back in 5th when Destroyer Lords weren't even their own separate thing, back then it was just a lord who had put on his destroyer pants that morning.

Which makes a lot more sense, as a robot, altering your body shouldn't be considered drastic or be permanent in any way. Why have a chariot when you can be your chariot, right?

Yeah, I much preferred that fluff.

To be honest, I also preferred it when Necron Lords were the leaders of the army. Overlords are far too bulky and garish for my tastes.

torblind wrote:

I agree 100% that the Spyder needs to be improved to be useful, giving it Character seems right, but regarding above, you can take the Cryptek regardless of what you do with the Spyder, neither discourages the other, so that's hardly a reason. ( I happily take both if I want some piece of machinery to stay alive)

The reason I think the spyder shouldn't be a character is that they're characters in the same way that a Doomsday Ark is a character. It just doesn't seem remotely thematic.

 vipoid wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Heck, I remember back in 5th when Destroyer Lords weren't even their own separate thing, back then it was just a lord who had put on his destroyer pants that morning.

Which makes a lot more sense, as a robot, altering your body shouldn't be considered drastic or be permanent in any way. Why have a chariot when you can be your chariot, right?

Yeah, I much preferred that fluff.

To be honest, I also preferred it when Necron Lords were the leaders of the army. Overlords are far too bulky and garish for my tastes.

torblind wrote:

I agree 100% that the Spyder needs to be improved to be useful, giving it Character seems right, but regarding above, you can take the Cryptek regardless of what you do with the Spyder, neither discourages the other, so that's hardly a reason. ( I happily take both if I want some piece of machinery to stay alive)

The reason I think the spyder shouldn't be a character is that they're characters in the same way that a Doomsday Ark is a character. It just doesn't seem remotely thematic.

Well aren't they supervising operations and the other canoptek units as they maintain the tomb world? That's a somewhat charactery position

I wouldn't make the Spyders characters either. There are already too many characters in the game. I would however make them Elites, give them a unique purpose/rule (for example, grant RP re-roll to TROOPS within 6"), drop them to 50 points and improve their wounds to 6.

So Ran this little 2K list at weekend to devastating effect.

Sautekh Battalion
Lord
Chronotek
3*5 tesla immortals
1*6 destroyers

Nihilakh Spearhead (whatever the heavy is)
Cloaktek
2 * DDA
1*3 Heavy Destroyers

Novokh Outrider
Dlord (WL) +scythe nanoscarab phylactery
2*6 Wraiths
1*3 scarabs

pretty much sit the DDA at the back and snipe

Battalion to objective cap while the wraiths rampage up the field.

I did miss an Overlord for MWBD on tesla but otherwise .. yeah it worked

this was a new CA18 Maelstrom mission ... killed a titanic in T2 (DDA rolled poorly, but destroyers would not have been in range anyway on T1)

Defining moment was the DDA taking 0 damage from the T1 alpha... the cloaktek sat around with his thumb up his butt without anything to repair all game.

So this is what I've been tinkering with the last few days, can't quite figure how to fill the last few points.

I've already made a thread for proposed rules changes to Necrons, you should probably move this discussion over there.


I won an ITC game going second with my double Bat list against a Khorne Daemonkin list. I lost 18 Immortals, one DDA and my Triarch Stalker before wiping out my opponent. This marks my 6th consecutive win with the list, which is the longest win streak I've had with a list in 8th. I think I'm going to start looking for trouble with this list, find some competitive lists then try and replace Imotekh and 28 Immortals with Destroyers to see if I need to get more Teslamortals for games where proxying is not allowed. 18 Gauss Immortals might actually be good enough, so I just have to make sure I have 40 Teslamortals.

Perhabs the greatest challenge with this list is keeping track of which units have shot.

Only comment I can make is switch out the Abyssal Staff for literally any other weapon. It's argueably our worst Relic. Other than that, it's a solid list. (even though the Meta hates MSU, with us more than most)

Might be tempted to trade one of the units of Immortals to Guass, and then teleport them accross the board with the Lord if you give him the Veil, just so then there's more up there than Deathmarks

 IHateNids wrote:
Only comment I can make is switch out the Abyssal Staff for literally any other weapon. It's argueably our worst Relic. Other than that, it's a solid list. (even though the Meta hates MSU, with us more than most)

Might be tempted to trade one of the units of Immortals to Guass, and then teleport them accross the board with the Lord if you give him the Veil, just so then there's more up there than Deathmarks

The Abyssal Staff has been popular in tournament lists, you're extremely wrong. It's our third or fourth best relic after VoD and The Nanoscarab Casket.

The Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is by far our worst relic, the rest are either among the best relics in the game VoD, Abyssal Staff, Casket or are at least okay in niche circumstances Sempiternal Weave for a Cryptek to have a greater likelyhood of surviving the explosion of a Titanic vehicle he is on repair duty for, Lightning Field for Catacomb Command Barges etc. etc.

I've literally never seen anyone recommend taking the AS...

granted, I dont really follow inat tourney scenes, but still...

Has anyone tried brewing a Silver Tide list post-CA? I think we might actually have enough point cost reductions to make a reasonable list.

You can now do:

1x Cryptek + Chrono
1x Overlord +Scythe + Res Orb

3x 20x Warrior Squads

3x DDA

1x Ghost Arc

All for 1509 points.

This could be a fairly solid core for a fun, effective list. Probably not top-table-worthy, but definitely far more reasonable and powerful than before.