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2018/12/23 21:00:22
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Trazyn is good isn't he? He is a fairly priced overlord. You can't hold it against him that Nihilakh might not be good enough (or that other dynasties are better).
You pay almost nothing for his gimmicks, and of you get to use them, great.
He is limited to Nihilakh which could be said to be a weakness, bit once you're going Nihilakh he should be as good as an overlord ( unless you need him to take a relic)
Trazyn is good. It's just his host ability is restricted to Non named HQs. If the HQs he could take were 25-30pts a model than he would be better but because the units we can sacrifice are actually useable (Cryptek, Lord, D,Lord and Overlord) and cost a good few points. It makes him expensive if you use his ability to make him survive. Him also being linked to Nihilakh harms his use.
He does have a role though and could be great if he could use Lychguard or Praetorians as sacrifices. But as he stand he isn't that worth it compared to an average Olord. Imo anyway.
But his gimmicks are priced at trinkets and peanuts. He is a good price for a cc overlord with an ok CC weapon. The gimmicks being limited and situational doesn't change the fact that the price is good for what he does bring
If you play a Nihilakh army chances are you are bringing 1-2 other unnamed HQs and suddenly you can throw your overlord into the frey knowing that he'll come back. But again this is almost for free.
Automatically Appended Next Post: .. And he doesn't have to be your warlord
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/23 21:17:42
2018/12/23 21:21:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Trazyn is good isn't he? He is a fairly priced overlord. You can't hold it against him that Nihilakh might not be good enough (or that other dynasties are better).
You pay almost nothing for his gimmicks, and of you get to use them, great.
He is limited to Nihilakh which could be said to be a weakness, bit once you're going Nihilakh he should be as good as an overlord ( unless you need him to take a relic)
Trazyn is good. It's just his host ability is restricted to Non named HQs. If the HQs he could take were 25-30pts a model than he would be better but because the units we can sacrifice are actually useable (Cryptek, Lord, D,Lord and Overlord) and cost a good few points. It makes him expensive if you use his ability to make him survive. Him also being linked to Nihilakh harms his use.
He does have a role though and could be great if he could use Lychguard or Praetorians as sacrifices. But as he stand he isn't that worth it compared to an average Olord. Imo anyway.
But his gimmicks are priced at trinkets and peanuts. He is a good price for a cc overlord with an ok CC weapon. The gimmicks being limited and situational doesn't change the fact that the price is good for what he does bring
If you play a Nihilakh army chances are you are bringing 1-2 other unnamed HQs and suddenly you can throw your overlord into the frey knowing that he'll come back. But again this is almost for free.
The way I see it is this. Trazyn is 90 pts. For me to bring him back to life I need to sacrifice a character. So Trazyn now becomes 90pts + the pts you sacrificed to bring him back (let's say a cloaktek for 85pts) is Trazyn really worth 90+85pt + whatever to keep him alive even tho he is slow, is okay in CC and besides his stat line doesn't really do much for our army. Sure he has MWBD but that's the only thing that is a buff. If you want MWBD just bring a Olord with H.sword for cheaper.
Plus, he doesn't really bring that much in terms of CC. His weapon does MW if a character is slain but very unlikely he would be in CC with an enemy character unless you VoD him for a 9" charge. Or 8" if he MWBD himself. I would personally prefer a Olord with Warscythe or Void scythe over Trazyn but that's me.
Also that was my own personally ranking. You can freely do your own if you like and you can back up your own oppinon if you'd like too as well but because Trazyn is never taken in a competitive scene (and this is the tactics thread) we don't have any hard data on what he can actually do. While everyone here nearly fields an Olord or 2.
So, trazyn has good stats, can be fun in non competitive games and definitely had a role in our army. He just isn't viabel for competitive play. Imo anyway.
If I may ask, have you ever played Trazyn in 8th and if so what did he do for you?
Trazyn doesn't have to be the Warlord but neither does a Olord. In just stating why he was ranked a D and not a A e.g. I like Imotekh but his warlord trait is now basically useless and makes it hard to justify him as a Warlord for a game even if he is a Phaeron.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/23 21:23:29
But his gimmick is optional. You don't have to surrogate him. It's all for free. If it fits, use it, if it doesn't, then don't. No way does that warrant piling the cost of another HQ on top of his.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nihilakh is never taken in the competitive scene. That's mainly because other dynasties are better, not just because Nihilakh is bad.
I'm not saying put him om par with an overlord. I'm saying does all this really show him all the way down to a D?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I played him once, I went Nihilakh in my first game with the Seraptek, up against a Nidzilla list. (In my friendly group we tend to stick to single dynasties/regiments in armies) (giving the Seraptek +1 save helped win the game)
His gimmicks never came in to play but he was a decently priced overlord with some extra CC abilities should he need to slay some bugs (which he needed when he burrowed 20 genestealers in my DZ)
D- is almost Night Shroud bad. He is priced ok for an overlord with his weapon. he's just limited.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/23 21:45:31
2018/12/23 22:28:24
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It's also an insincere statement to suggest he costs his base price + the model he could take over. He has the option to switch with another model A. you don't need to and B. when he does he isn't dying anymore so your losing that other model and NOT HIM.
torblind wrote: Trazyn is good isn't he? He is a fairly priced overlord. You can't hold it against him that Nihilakh might not be good enough (or that other dynasties are better).
You pay almost nothing for his gimmicks, and of you get to use them, great.
He is limited to Nihilakh which could be said to be a weakness, bit once you're going Nihilakh he should be as good as an overlord ( unless you need him to take a relic)
Trazyn is good. It's just his host ability is restricted to Non named HQs. If the HQs he could take were 25-30pts a model than he would be better but because the units we can sacrifice are actually useable (Cryptek, Lord, D,Lord and Overlord) and cost a good few points. It makes him expensive if you use his ability to make him survive. Him also being linked to Nihilakh harms his use.
He does have a role though and could be great if he could use Lychguard or Praetorians as sacrifices. But as he stand he isn't that worth it compared to an average Olord. Imo anyway.
But his gimmicks are priced at trinkets and peanuts. He is a good price for a cc overlord with an ok CC weapon. The gimmicks being limited and situational doesn't change the fact that the price is good for what he does bring
If you play a Nihilakh army chances are you are bringing 1-2 other unnamed HQs and suddenly you can throw your overlord into the frey knowing that he'll come back. But again this is almost for free.
Automatically Appended Next Post: .. And he doesn't have to be your warlord
His melee really isn't "okay".
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/12/23 22:44:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Red Corsair wrote: It's also an insincere statement to suggest he costs his base price + the model he could take over. He has the option to switch with another model A. you don't need to and B. when he does he isn't dying anymore so your losing that other model and NOT HIM.
But why would you want to lose a different model like say a useable Cloaktek or Lord for Trazyn? Trazyn does nothing for us competitively. If you guys can make a sound tactic that actually use him and his ability I'll be will to change my D to a C or C+. But until shown and given actual reasons as to why he is worth picking over a cheaper Olord that can be any Dynasty (even Nihilakh, shock)I will keep Trollzyn as a D.
Again, this is my opinion. I don't personally think it's worth swapping a generic HQ just for Trazyn unless he was my warlord but then I'd be stuck with the Nihilakh warlord trait. So. Again. Not seeing what he brings to the table besides limitations and useful character sacrifices if you want him to survive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/23 22:46:29
Red Corsair wrote: It's also an insincere statement to suggest he costs his base price + the model he could take over. He has the option to switch with another model A. you don't need to and B. when he does he isn't dying anymore so your losing that other model and NOT HIM.
But why would you want to lose a different model like say a useable Cloaktek or Lord for Trazyn? Trazyn does nothing for us competitively. If you guys can make a sound tactic that actually use him and his ability I'll be will to change my D to a C or C+. But until shown and given actual reasons as to why he is worth picking over a cheaper Olord that can be any Dynasty (even Nihilakh, shock)I will keep Trollzyn as a D.
Again, this is my opinion. I don't personally think it's worth swapping a generic HQ just for Trazyn unless he was my warlord but then I'd be stuck with the Nihilakh warlord trait. So. Again. Not seeing what he brings to the table besides limitations and useful character sacrifices if you want him to survive.
The problem they are having is that in a Nihilakh army he isn't useless, he's an okay replacement for an Overlord, his weapon is 7 pts which is perfectly fair, his ability is free, he isn't the huge points sink you'd expect from a D-rank unit. You're never in a million years going to see him in a competitive list, you're right about that part. I think you're overrating Sentinels, D3 shots at range 12" turn 2 after DS more than 9" away is pretty useless. Meanwhile Triarch Stalkers provide the only access our army has to re-roll 1s outside of Nihilakh and I'd put it at an A. Rating the Nightbringer as being worse than a Transcendent C'tan sounds like you've never used at least one of those, maybe that's just because I like randomly generating my Transcendent C'tan.
With the nerf to Fly I'm pretty sure that Scarabs are not A+, maybe A, but I'd rather have TBs. The Particle Stalker is many times better than Spyders, which are only sort of okay at the best of times. Last game I used one I was able to repair a vehicle on three occasions, then my opponent decided he had enough and killed it and it really didn't take a lot, I was using the most expensive version, but even with just a Claw he's pretty expensive. Tesseract Ark isn't going to be competitive, I don't think it's better than an Annihilation Barge. Saying that it's much better than 4 Destroyers is a little ridiculous IMO, they'll almost certainly be part of the Necron meta in a big way for the next year. I don't get the love for mini-Pylons, I see a lot more potential in the big Pylon protecting 3 DDAs with its 5++ aura. I can definitely also see myself building a list without the Cloaktek, it'll probably only be one or two out of 30, I guess he is an autoinclude. Ghost Ark should be A, a Warrior list is incomplete without it, don't forget everyone thought it would be all about the 20-man blobs at the start of the index and at the start of the codex, I think 60 man Warrior group has a slight chance of being good. The Deceiver is only good with a select number of units, but there is no discussion he is amazing with those units. But if you're running a gunline, as I'm sure will be incredibly popular, then he is the worst of the C'tan.
Construct being a C is hard for me to accept given how many competitive lists I've beaten with it and how easily it beat some more casual lists.
I lost a 500 pt game against Orks. I got a little careless with my unit placement and ended up having my Overlord be smited and then killed as well as losing my Destroyers to melee as well. I did help my opponent along a lot, I don't know if it was too much, but melee armies do require a lot more than shooting armies.
2018/12/24 00:43:24
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The problem they are having is that in a Nihilakh army he isn't useless, he's an okay replacement for an Overlord, his weapon is 7 pts which is perfectly fair, his ability is free, he isn't the huge points sink you'd expect from a D-rank unit. You're never in a million years going to see him in a competitive list, you're right about that part. I think you're overrating Sentinels, D3 shots at range 12" turn 2 after DS more than 9" away is pretty useless. Meanwhile Triarch Stalkers provide the only access our army has to re-roll 1s outside of Nihilakh and I'd put it at an A. Rating the Nightbringer as being worse than a Transcendent C'tan sounds like you've never used at least one of those, maybe that's just because I like randomly generating my Transcendent C'tan.
Maybe he is usable in a Nihilkah detachment but its none I could ever find. And I have used him several times before.
Sentinels are D6 shots. if the gun is 12" and you ds 9" away than your gun is in range and you could just charge if that unit doesn't die. Not that useless imo. I do like Triarch Stalkers. they are very close to being an A but because of Nihilakh we dont fully have to rely on them so I put them as B and B+. If you feel they are an A than all good. Im sure Skoffs will take note of all of this before concreting in the Grading unit tag.
In terms of Nightbringer and T.C'tan. I have used them both numerous of time. N.Bringer probably 16 and T.C'tan a good 11 times. The reason I say T.C'can>N.bringer is because of how versatile it can be.They both do D6dmg and the only thing the N.bringer has going for it is that it wounds most things on 2+ besides vehicles. But, besides the fact it has a fleshbane weapon. It isn't that much better than the T.C'tan. I think the T.C'tan deserves to be a great better. I am not saying the N.Bringer is bad but it is possibly the worst C'tan. IMO.
Scarabs are A+ because of movement, wounds, cost ppm, Stratagem usage. I never cheesed the fly keyword to do 0" charges because i thought it was rule breaking. So officially not being allowed to do that doesnt effect me as much as others. Maybe they are an A to you but I think they are an A+. But you are right about 1 thing. I would rather TBs.
I don't know why you don't like Tesseract Arks... Same firepower as 2 Destroyers + a cannon with 3 different modes. 3 dice charge discard the highest, 5++ and T7. Its our only QS model with T7 and an Invul. I think Tesseract Arks are great. Especially in a Sautekh detachment but whatever.
Ghost Ark isn't an A because it only affects warriors. So whatever rating warriors are they GA will be the same. IF it buffed all Necron Infantry it be A+++++ but it only effects Warriors and it isn't open-topped. Plus, no one really uses warriors for competitive play so why both rating a GA as an auto include the it only is one in Warrior heavy games?
Seraptek is a C because it is still a new model and we havnt really figured it out yet. C is an average score which means it can go up or down as more data is present.
Scarabs fly out of combat, which is awesome for a screen (attacker can't pile around it to prevent fallback and getting gunned down)
The fly nerf means they can't jump above terrain and models to get to targets which sucks but probably didn't really hurt them that much.
As smite screen and character screen they're great for accompanying wraiths and ctan's. If your meta requires screens, they are still a near auto take I'd say. Also great for getting obkectives.
They're perhaps not A+ but certainly a very relevant unit. Also nice for filling those fast slots if you need.
2018/12/24 04:26:23
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
As for Unit grades, I think we can safely update a few of them.
My take:
Doomsday Arks- A+ I don't think I really need to explain much here, as we've seen first hand how good they were, and are even better now with the points drop.
Triarch Stalker- A I think this is an A now. I don't really buy the argument that just because Nihalakh is an available dynasty we should downgrade them. For one, I think Nihalkh is probably the least taken dynasty. Two, you have to not move to get that bonus. Finally, The Triarch Stalker can fit into any list pretty easy, and both weapons are good. 125 points for a HGC or Heat Ray Stalker is a steal.
Nightbringer- I am not quite sure why anyone is rating the Nightbringer below a Tshard. The Nightbringer to me, is objectively better. Better Melee weapon, shooting attack, and you get a power of the C'tan all for cheaper than a Tshard. The only time I could see the Tshard being better is if you rolled both Cosmic Tyrant and Immune to natural law. The fact that you can also whiff on the roll is terrible. With just the single choice in mind, and the dangers of rolling the better melee weapon, shooting attack and the fact it's cheaper I have to grade the Nightbringer as being better than a Tshard. I need to actually get some games in with it's points drop to make a better judgement call.
Tesseract Ark- This one is a tough one. I really love the model, but I do think it's probably still a tad too expensive at 200 points for the Gauss Cannons. I think it is significantly better and worth playing, but I have a hard time slotting it in. This is mainly due to the fact I already pack 3x DD Arks in my main list and use a Nephrekh detachment for my destroyers. If the Ark was around 160-180 with the Cannons, it would likely be close to an auto-include.
Maybe he is usable in a Nihilkah detachment but its none I could ever find. And I have used him several times before.
Sentinels are D6 shots. if the gun is 12" and you ds 9" away than your gun is in range and you could just charge if that unit doesn't die. Not that useless imo. I do like Triarch Stalkers. they are very close to being an A but because of Nihilakh we dont fully have to rely on them so I put them as B and B+. If you feel they are an A than all good. Im sure Skoffs will take note of all of this before concreting in the Grading unit tag.
In terms of Nightbringer and T.C'tan. I have used them both numerous of time. N.Bringer probably 16 and T.C'tan a good 11 times. The reason I say T.C'can>N.bringer is because of how versatile it can be.They both do D6dmg and the only thing the N.bringer has going for it is that it wounds most things on 2+ besides vehicles. But, besides the fact it has a fleshbane weapon. It isn't that much better than the T.C'tan. I think the T.C'tan deserves to be a great better. I am not saying the N.Bringer is bad but it is possibly the worst C'tan. IMO.
Scarabs are A+ because of movement, wounds, cost ppm, Stratagem usage. I never cheesed the fly keyword to do 0" charges because i thought it was rule breaking. So officially not being allowed to do that doesnt effect me as much as others. Maybe they are an A to you but I think they are an A+. But you are right about 1 thing. I would rather TBs.
I don't know why you don't like Tesseract Arks... Same firepower as 2 Destroyers + a cannon with 3 different modes. 3 dice charge discard the highest, 5++ and T7. Its our only QS model with T7 and an Invul. I think Tesseract Arks are great. Especially in a Sautekh detachment but whatever.
Ghost Ark isn't an A because it only affects warriors. So whatever rating warriors are they GA will be the same. IF it buffed all Necron Infantry it be A+++++ but it only effects Warriors and it isn't open-topped. Plus, no one really uses warriors for competitive play so why both rating a GA as an auto include the it only is one in Warrior heavy games?
Seraptek is a C because it is still a new model and we havnt really figured it out yet. C is an average score which means it can go up or down as more data is present.
What I mean is that he doesn't fulfill a role that a regular Overlord can't do as well, but there is no reason to hate him except if you hate Nihilakh.
Screening is a thing that makes the Sentinel seem useless to me, I proxied it against some guy and it just doesn't seem reliable, you're putting it at risk. Against Tau you're looking at half a shooting phase going into your 2-3 Sentinels and only getting one of them actually successfully chargin, provided it doesn't die. Have you had success with them? I just have too many other things to test, I'm don't think it's worth spending time on a FW unit I don't own when it IMO is unlikely to be competitively viable.
The Nightbringer has his Shooting attack that + the better melee seems to make paying 10 pts extra not worth it. How do you run your Transcendent C'tan? How do you use it?
Man I miss Scarabs, I totally forgot about moving 16" and then charging, yeah in Novokh or Nephrekh they could still be A+.
I don't like the Tesseract Ark model and I don't think it is good enough to warrant me getting over it to field it, meanwhile Destroyers have a great track record that Tesseract Arks never had and access to our most powerful Stratagem.
Rating the Ghost Ark an A depends on how you view units and lists, in my head I take a rough estimate of the average rating I'd give to each unit to deteHave you read the dakka posting rules yet? If not, click to open them in a new window.
rmine the rating each army has, so a list with 60 Warriors is probably going to be somewhere between D and B rank, while a list with 60 Warriors and 1 or 2 Ghost Arks is going to be somewhere between C and A rank.
What data do you have to suggest the Sentinel or the Tesseract Ark are anything other than C? I saw some people taking Arks back after the Gauss Pylon nerf in the index, but AFAIK they weren't particularly successful. Honestly I don't think we should update anything yet. For all we know Necrons may be complete garbo and will never have a single top 3 for the entirety of 2019 or Triarch Praetorian spam wins the LVO.
I won a 2k game against Thousand Sons going second with my double Monolith list. I didn't properly bubble-wrap one of my Monoliths so I lost it turn 1 to Magnus after my opponent seized the initiative. I forgot to do RP and use the Ghost Ark a couple of times over the course of the game. When I used the Veil of Darkness I put one of the Warrior Squads and my my Warlord out of position for several turns, I should have thought harder about what the units were going to do in future turns and the range of my Aura abilities. My opponent was unlucky the entire game so I was able to clean him off the table, I think I would have won regardless because I had better objective-grabbing. My opponent also used Warp Time ib Magnus before trying to give him -1 To Hit after which he was out of range of that power, so it was quite easy to kill Magnus as I was hitting on 2s with everything.
2018/12/24 13:45:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I don't get the argument about TCtan and Nightbringer. Just bring both . I say that as a joke. But to be honest 380 for 3 powers and some badass profiles attached to the character keyword isn't bad at all. In a meta where killing a knight is built into almost every list it's probably better than the Vault. As far as I'm concerned, they are both an A.
2018/12/24 14:01:48
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Merkabah wrote: I don't get the argument about TCtan and Nightbringer. Just bring both . I say that as a joke. But to be honest 380 for 3 powers and some badass profiles attached to the character keyword isn't bad at all. In a meta where killing a knight is built into almost every list it's probably better than the Vault. As far as I'm concerned, they are both an A.
Thousand sons Daemon prince without wings is cheaper, have more attacks, gives rerolls, have more flexible psychic powers, fills important HQ slot and can deny. I see no reasons ctans being A at this cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/24 14:02:48
2018/12/24 14:56:25
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Merkabah wrote: I don't get the argument about TCtan and Nightbringer. Just bring both . I say that as a joke. But to be honest 380 for 3 powers and some badass profiles attached to the character keyword isn't bad at all. In a meta where killing a knight is built into almost every list it's probably better than the Vault. As far as I'm concerned, they are both an A.
Thousand sons Daemon prince without wings is cheaper, have more attacks, gives rerolls, have more flexible psychic powers, fills important HQ slot and can deny. I see no reasons ctans being A at this cost.
So, let's be fair here. For one, a Thousand sons daemon prince is one of the best units in the game full stop. As a Thousand Sons player, I was pretty surprised it did not go up in cost. That being said, even with the extra attack(s) from Malefic Talons, the Nightbringers weapon is better, the Nightbringers shooting is better, it's power of the C'tan can't be denied and it has T8.
No access to powers and missing out on the Aura does hurt, but as I pointed out there are several points the Nightbringer has over it.
We also have to compare it to what we can bring, and it's effectiveness in our army. I would agree in downgrading a rank if we had access to the Thousand Sons Daemon prince, but we don't. Just because another army has a unit that is better in some ways, does not mean that a unit is not effective or good.
That being said, I still think the Nightbringer is probably a B+, simply due to it's weakness to mortal wounds.
Cynista wrote: IMO we have no A+ units at all. I know the DDA is good but a 4+ save, no invul and random shots and random damage.... nah, it's either B+ or A.
Grading is scaled entirely for units found only in our Codex, and not against units from other armies.
The Doomsday Ark is still one of our best units, therefore, it's an A+.
If you want to grade our units against every unit in the game, I'd be surprised if we had a single unit (outside of Scarabs) break the B mark.
Has anyone thought about using an imperial bunker as a method of bringing CC units close to the enemy ? A bunker can hold any number of INFANTRY CHARACTERS and one other INFANTRY unit, up to a maximum of 10 models. You can deploy the bunker with zahndrekh and 9 praetorians right at the edge of your deployment zone, reducing your deployment count. Even anrakyr could embark on a bunker. On your turn you disembark the bunker within 3", your praetorians move their 10" movement value, zahndrekh advances, then you ghostwalk obyron with another praetorian CC unit within 6" of zahndrekh. Next turn an infantry unit (destroyers ?) could embark on the bunker and they would be safe from enemy fire. 5 models can shoot from the bunker. Unfortunaly you cant use EP on them. Fortifications can hold objective markers, so you could place one on the bunker. And because its a model, and part of your army, your opponent cannot climb on top of the bunker, models cant be on top of other models. He would have to destroy it, then it becomes a ruin. Any enemy firepower directed at the bunker is not going to kill any necron units.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/24 15:47:10
2018/12/24 16:52:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
You can do the same and more with the Deceiver for springing your units across the board. With the added benefit of changing where he +d3 units go, remember they do not need to start or end up anywhere near each other.
2018/12/24 17:00:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Pyrothem wrote: You can do the same and more with the Deceiver for springing your units across the board. With the added benefit of changing where he +d3 units go, remember they do not need to start or end up anywhere near each other.
But you can't charge after that, and are pretty vulnerable if put forward.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/12/24 17:13:59
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
p5freak wrote: Has anyone thought about using an imperial bunker as a method of bringing CC units close to the enemy ? A bunker can hold any number of INFANTRY CHARACTERS and one other INFANTRY unit, up to a maximum of 10 models. You can deploy the bunker with zahndrekh and 9 praetorians right at the edge of your deployment zone, reducing your deployment count. Even anrakyr could embark on a bunker. On your turn you disembark the bunker within 3", your praetorians move their 10" movement value, zahndrekh advances, then you ghostwalk obyron with another praetorian CC unit within 6" of zahndrekh. Next turn an infantry unit (destroyers ?) could embark on the bunker and they would be safe from enemy fire. 5 models can shoot from the bunker. Unfortunaly you cant use EP on them. Fortifications can hold objective markers, so you could place one on the bunker. And because its a model, and part of your army, your opponent cannot climb on top of the bunker, models cant be on top of other models. He would have to destroy it, then it becomes a ruin. Any enemy firepower directed at the bunker is not going to kill any necron units.
I've been using a night scythe to drop off a cryptek and 10 lychguard with warscythes pretty much anywhere on the board. They will sometimes get a gravity assist to the ground (eg my opponent blows up the night scythe) but that's not too big of a problem. If you give the cryptek the veil, they can hop around the board, in my last game they dropped took out two armiger helvrins, and veiled to menace the knight who had booked from them.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/12/24 17:33:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Cynista wrote: IMO we have no A+ units at all. I know the DDA is good but a 4+ save, no invul and random shots and random damage.... nah, it's either B+ or A.
Scarabs are B+
Flayed Ones are E
Triarch Stalker is B
Destroyers and Wraiths are A
If your going to grade units you might as well grade them all.
I also graded mine based on what we have. Not based on every 40k unit nor did I base them on what to use against *X* army.
And sure. It has random no. of shoots and random DMG but you can't say that when you do roll that 6 for shots and roll well for DMG that it doesn't feel like one of our best units? I know rolling a 1 for shots and 1 for DMG is a pretty gakk feeling but just save your re-roll for those shoots.
In all the games I've used the DDA I've had great success because I don't just use it's big Cannon. I use the Gauss arrays. Once anything T8+ is gone I move them about so I can use all the weapons if possible. It's basically 10 warriors with a S8-10 weapon. If you don't like it you can use Tomb Sentinels (random shots, reliable 3 dmg) or a Tesseract Ark as they have also done me well in any game I have used them.
Flipping hell we got some touchy snowflakes in here don't we. Cheer up lads it's christmas, I was just giving my opinion on some notable units I would change the grades on
Cynista wrote: IMO we have no A+ units at all. I know the DDA is good but a 4+ save, no invul and random shots and random damage.... nah, it's either B+ or A.
Grading is scaled entirely for units found only in our Codex, and not against units from other armies.
The Doomsday Ark is still one of our best units, therefore, it's an A+.
If you want to grade our units against every unit in the game, I'd be surprised if we had a single unit (outside of Scarabs) break the B mark.
I don't recall comparing anything we have to other armies. By its own merits, the DDA is not A+ and nor is anything else. The logic you're using is a fallacy
2018/12/24 17:54:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I have to disagree with the comments saying we have no A+ units. Personally I think Tesla Immortals are absolutely an A+ unit and argueabky the best unit we have. At 150 points for 10, they are relatively durable, output an immense amount of shooting for their price, fulfil the troops tax brilliantly and are ObSec.
There is not a single game I don't have at least one unit of them.
As for Nightbringer, I've never played a game where he didn't earn back his points. Sure he's not as good as a Daemon Prince but that's not a fair comparison as you can't take one in a Necron army. What he offers is something the Necrons lack, a hard hitting assault unit that can not only use his ctan powers for mortal wounds, but has a pretty outstanding shooting attack. Give him a cheap screen of Scarabs and he's great - especially if your opponent is silly enough to end a flyers move nearby
2018/12/24 18:25:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Sumilidon wrote: I have to disagree with the comments saying we have no A+ units. Personally I think Tesla Immortals are absolutely an A+ unit and argueabky the best unit we have. At 150 points for 10, they are relatively durable, output an immense amount of shooting for their price, fulfil the troops tax brilliantly and are ObSec.
But they're only T4, no Invuln, no AP, and D1 on their guns... How could they be A+? /troll/
Sumilidon wrote: I have to disagree with the comments saying we have no A+ units. Personally I think Tesla Immortals are absolutely an A+ unit and argueabky the best unit we have. At 150 points for 10, they are relatively durable, output an immense amount of shooting for their price, fulfil the troops tax brilliantly and are ObSec.
But they're only T4, no Invuln, no AP, and D1 on their guns... How could they be A+? /troll/
Because an A+ unit doesn't mean it's hard to kill, it means it's great value for the points and essentially an auto-include. Sure they are only T4, but they still have reanimation protocols and can easily increase their save to a 2+ and gain a 5++.
As for the lack of AP, that's not so much an issue when you're wounding most infantry on 3s and hitting more than you shoot (assuming MWBD). A unit of Immortals can make a real mess of a Guard unit, Gaunts, Kabalites etc, to to mention low toughness vehicles.
Finally, they are only 150 points these days! I still think Necrons got shafted in CA2018 due to all the other armies taking points decreases and not addressing the key problems however
2018/12/24 19:48:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Hey man, you don't have to reason with me. I 100% agree that Tesla Immortals are an A+ unit. I was just trolling whatshisname a few posts back. Hence /troll/
Hey man, you don't have to reason with me. I 100% agree that Tesla Immortals are an A+ unit. I was just trolling whatshisname a few posts back. Hence /troll/
2018/12/24 23:13:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Nightbringer has a significant weakness against large model count units and likewise is vulnerable to high volume of fire—both of which frequently appear side by side. I’d rank him an A. No “+”.
I also think it’s best to rank units based on intra-Codex evaluation, but I also think that this doesn’t mean we have to have an A+ per se (though I think DDAs are an A+). To an extent, an A+ is a required inclusion in competitive lists (bar bizarre meta considerations): I’m not convinced we have a supernumerary number of those.
2018/12/25 04:04:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
sieGermans wrote: Nightbringer has a significant weakness against large model count units and likewise is vulnerable to high volume of fire—both of which frequently appear side by side. I’d rank him an A. No “+”.
I also think it’s best to rank units based on intra-Codex evaluation, but I also think that this doesn’t mean we have to have an A+ per se (though I think DDAs are an A+). To an extent, an A+ is a required inclusion in competitive lists (bar bizarre meta considerations): I’m not convinced we have a supernumerary number of those.
While true (that t7 4++ statline just really doesn't go that far)...if you're running him with no screen of scarabs etc, i would suggest it! It helps a lot. I usually run him with a pack of 6 wraiths.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
. I say that as a joke. But to be honest 380 for 3 powers and some badass profiles attached to the character keyword isn't bad at all. In a meta where killing a knight is built into almost every list it's probably better than the Vault. As far as I'm concerned, they are both an A.
4000 pts
