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2019/01/01 22:27:43
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Blndmage wrote: While they may not be super viable, I'm finding my Sentry Pylons (with Heat Cannons) to be super fun to play.
With CA18 cutting their cost so much, I can almost always bring three, sometimes 6.
Yeah the d6 hits and damage make them super swingy, but I've found that the more I play them, the more I see it even out. Every unit can have good and bad rolling games.
A DDA is 160, heat cannon pylon is 145 They need to drop another 20-30 points to be worth considering.
2019/01/01 23:06:37
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Blndmage wrote: While they may not be super viable, I'm finding my Sentry Pylons (with Heat Cannons) to be super fun to play.
With CA18 cutting their cost so much, I can almost always bring three, sometimes 6.
Yeah the d6 hits and damage make them super swingy, but I've found that the more I play them, the more I see it even out. Every unit can have good and bad rolling games.
A DDA is 160, heat cannon pylon is 145 They need to drop another 20-30 points to be worth considering.
I personally think DDAs are auto includes. Especially when you consider a Ghost ark is 145pts and for 15pts extra you get a Cannon with 2 different weapon profiles.
When I use my DDAs I just delete stuff that's T8+ and once all that is dead I move them to make use of the Gauss Arrays. Playing them as Sautekh also stops the -1 for hitting heavy weapons unless you advance.
I know D6 shots and wounds is very whiffy but when you roll that 4-6 for shots and your DMG rolls are 3+ you cant disagree that it feels like 160pts well spent. Especially when it was 203pts back in the index for Heavy D3 shots and only became Heavy D6 if shooting at a unit with 10+ models.
Blndmage wrote: While they may not be super viable, I'm finding my Sentry Pylons (with Heat Cannons) to be super fun to play.
With CA18 cutting their cost so much, I can almost always bring three, sometimes 6.
Yeah the d6 hits and damage make them super swingy, but I've found that the more I play them, the more I see it even out. Every unit can have good and bad rolling games.
A DDA is 160, heat cannon pylon is 145 They need to drop another 20-30 points to be worth considering.
For me, the benifit of Sentry Pylons is taking units of 3. The most I've run is 6, but my ideal Tomb has 9.
The Teleortatiin Matrix boosts the cost, but having a full unit of 3 drop on someone is wonderful.
213PL 60PL 12PL 9-17PL (she/her)
2019/01/02 01:45:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Blndmage wrote: While they may not be super viable, I'm finding my Sentry Pylons (with Heat Cannons) to be super fun to play.
With CA18 cutting their cost so much, I can almost always bring three, sometimes 6.
Yeah the d6 hits and damage make them super swingy, but I've found that the more I play them, the more I see it even out. Every unit can have good and bad rolling games.
A DDA is 160, heat cannon pylon is 145 They need to drop another 20-30 points to be worth considering.
For me, the benifit of Sentry Pylons is taking units of 3. The most I've run is 6, but my ideal Tomb has 9.
The Teleortatiin Matrix boosts the cost, but having a full unit of 3 drop on someone is wonderful.
If you're teleporting them in in melta range (18"), they barely manage to kill a LRBT, aren't you worried they will be too fragile, they're only 8 wounds? 2 of the 5 remaining LRBTs easily kill off one of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/02 01:47:14
2019/01/02 02:19:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
What are people's thoughts on the Particle Shredder for Triarch Stalkers? They come in at 115 pts with that loadout and become the Necron version of the Hellveryn (not quite as good, but a boatload cheaper). Worth considering over Gauss?
2019/01/02 03:28:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IanVanCheese wrote: What are people's thoughts on the Particle Shredder for Triarch Stalkers? They come in at 115 pts with that loadout and become the Necron version of the Hellveryn (not quite as good, but a boatload cheaper). Worth considering over Gauss?
I am a fan of the consistent D2 damage for consistency, and with SIX shots you're guaranteed to get your wanted shooting buff.
It's an option to consider but I want to do the math in it first.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/01/02 03:37:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IanVanCheese wrote: What are people's thoughts on the Particle Shredder for Triarch Stalkers? They come in at 115 pts with that loadout and become the Necron version of the Hellveryn (not quite as good, but a boatload cheaper). Worth considering over Gauss?
It used to be an auto include imo before CA18. But, with the new pts drop to the Stalker and the weapons I would say that the Heat Ray is best weapon to take. With the THGC and P.shredder now being situational (ThGC for dedicated anti tank, P.Shredder for TeQ/MeQ )
The only buff the Shredder has is the flat 6 shots. Having a reliable amount of dakka is always nice. But, with CA18, I would say the Heat Ray is the best option as you get both light anti-tank and a 2d6 S5 -1 flamer.
Blndmage wrote:
For me, the benifit of Sentry Pylons is taking units of 3. The most I've run is 6, but my ideal Tomb has 9.
The Teleortatiin Matrix boosts the cost, but having a full unit of 3 drop on someone is wonderful.
You are dropping 465 pts. on someone ?? First of all you have to wait until turn 2, thats 465 pts. of your army doing nothing turn 1. Second, three pylons are kinda big. You need a lot of space for them. Third, they have no protection. Your opponent can charge them, tie them up with a cheap chaff unit, and render them useless. They cant escape with their tiny 3" movement.
IanVanCheese wrote:What are people's thoughts on the Particle Shredder for Triarch Stalkers? They come in at 115 pts with that loadout and become the Necron version of the Hellveryn (not quite as good, but a boatload cheaper). Worth considering over Gauss?
Its only 24" range, and if you move you get -1 to hit. Triarch units dont benefit from dynasty codes.
2019/01/02 10:11:17
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
this was a CA18 Maelstrom mission and I had a LOT of board control here,
ended in a 16-8 win and a really fun balanced match vs T'au
I had tried to keep the destroyers in LoS away from his heavy shooting .. the C'tan circled with wraith and scarab screens to pick on outriders while pretty much ignoring the riptide
the triple threat wraiths running round just tying stuff up and being mean .. the destroyers circling and then finally the Dlord veiling the LG into the core of the enemy troops and command structure really messed them up.
it wasn't meant to be anything but a hard to kill board control army .. and it worked .. played to the objectives rather than trying to table opponent, and to be honest CA2018 really drives that with the lack of sudden death option.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/02 10:15:19
2019/01/02 15:22:28
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
this was a CA18 Maelstrom mission and I had a LOT of board control here,
ended in a 16-8 win and a really fun balanced match vs T'au
I had tried to keep the destroyers in LoS away from his heavy shooting .. the C'tan circled with wraith and scarab screens to pick on outriders while pretty much ignoring the riptide
the triple threat wraiths running round just tying stuff up and being mean .. the destroyers circling and then finally the Dlord veiling the LG into the core of the enemy troops and command structure really messed them up.
it wasn't meant to be anything but a hard to kill board control army .. and it worked .. played to the objectives rather than trying to table opponent, and to be honest CA2018 really drives that with the lack of sudden death option.
Why run the wraiths in groups of 3? Whats the logic for this list?
Just confused.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/02 15:22:49
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/01/02 15:31:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
this was a CA18 Maelstrom mission and I had a LOT of board control here,
ended in a 16-8 win and a really fun balanced match vs T'au
I had tried to keep the destroyers in LoS away from his heavy shooting .. the C'tan circled with wraith and scarab screens to pick on outriders while pretty much ignoring the riptide
the triple threat wraiths running round just tying stuff up and being mean .. the destroyers circling and then finally the Dlord veiling the LG into the core of the enemy troops and command structure really messed them up.
it wasn't meant to be anything but a hard to kill board control army .. and it worked .. played to the objectives rather than trying to table opponent, and to be honest CA2018 really drives that with the lack of sudden death option.
Why run the wraiths in groups of 3? Whats the logic for this list?
Just confused.
few reasons
a) I was low on CP and wasn't going to waste 2 on RP on the wraiths, so rather than making a big 6 squad target, I made MSU to get enemy to split fire or focus and not be able to kill stuff
b) they weren't really my killing force, they were running interference and tying up stuff in CC that can't fly (Broadsides)
c) or picking on things like fireblade cadres and ethereals for easy assassinates.
d) opponent sees wraiths on the table and 99% of the time panic and they draw a load of fire away from my other stuff ... 3++ generally helps them stick around a while.
e) they won me the game by camping a last turn objective for Domination - D3+3 VP
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/02 15:32:48
2019/01/02 21:03:04
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
b) they weren't really my killing force, they were running interference and tying up stuff in CC that can't fly (Broadsides)
c) or picking on things like fireblade cadres and ethereals for easy assassinates.
How do you get to your opponent's Broadsides, Fireblade and Ethereal with Wraiths? I don't see the Shooting in your list that enables you to get through screens. Does your opponent just run min-size Fire Warrior squads and hides them? How about Overwatch? Are you able to find positions were you can remain out of LOS without losing too much Movement on your charge?
I won an Eternal War game against a casual Tau list with my Anarakyr Szeras Balanced list. Both of my 20-man Warrior blobs got T5 so my opponent had a tough time removing them, even though we were about even on killing eachother I won easily on objectives. My Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers performed very poorly, they were all easily sniped by fusion weapons, which were otherwise meh against the rest of the choices in my army. If I cut the 9 Destroyers in my list I would just need another 30 pts to get 3 DDAs, which would have been much stronger against this match-up because he had 20 fusion guns and no Riptides. I played extremely poorly this game, I chose to Advance my Destroyers out of LOS turn 1, wasting their shooting for... reasons. I basically didn't shoot one of my Warrior squads turn 1 when I could have Veiled them into RF range and blown up my opponent's Fire Warriors T1. I should have just played far more aggressively, although playing passively and picking up objectives did work out in the end.
2019/01/02 23:53:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IanVanCheese wrote: What are people's thoughts on the Particle Shredder for Triarch Stalkers? They come in at 115 pts with that loadout and become the Necron version of the Hellveryn (not quite as good, but a boatload cheaper). Worth considering over Gauss?
A few people did some math earlier in the thread, and the general consensus was that HGC and the Heat Ray were the better options for Anti-Tank, and the Heat Ray close range was pretty good at dealing with MEQ and GEQ. The HGC had the advantage of it's range.
I think the main slight against the particle shredder, is that it isn't as good against vehicles as the other two options and we have better options in the dex for the targets that the particle shredder is better at.
b) they weren't really my killing force, they were running interference and tying up stuff in CC that can't fly (Broadsides)
c) or picking on things like fireblade cadres and ethereals for easy assassinates.
How do you get to your opponent's Broadsides, Fireblade and Ethereal with Wraiths?
I don't see the Shooting in your list that enables you to get through screens. Does your opponent just run min-size Fire Warrior squads and hides them? How about Overwatch? Are you able to find positions were you can remain out of LOS without losing too much Movement on your charge?
you chew through screens with wraiths and if any survive / don't run away even better - wraiths can fallback and charge and fly over intervening screens to attack from the rear.
and that's if the MWBD advancing Sautekh tesla immortals and destroyers have left anything standing in the way
looking at about 15 wounds from Tesla alone on troops ..
I should have just played far more aggressively, although playing passively and picking up objectives did work out in the end.
yup, I'm slowly learning to play the objectives these days rather than rush to kill everything on the table ... I try to survive the Riptides and stuff as best I can.
Also target selection is key .. T'au really rely on marker lights.. I know it sounds like a dick move move you kill the pathfinders and his entire army loses re-roll 1's and some +1 BS ... it really gimps them.
2019/01/03 14:00:31
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Consequently, Tesla Immortals are exceedingly good at killing Pathfinders and Shield Drones by weight of dice.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/01/03 14:21:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I have never played against Tau personally, but as far as disabling support goes, I've been pleased with the performance of Deathmarks after taking them for the first time recently. They one shot Yvrainne in my first game and took out the support buffing a unit of Bullgryns in their second.
It's funny as well how quickly someone's target priorities shift once their psykers start getting shot at.
2019/01/03 14:49:42
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
dapperbandit wrote: I have never played against Tau personally, but as far as disabling support goes, I've been pleased with the performance of Deathmarks after taking them for the first time recently. They one shot Yvrainne in my first game and took out the support buffing a unit of Bullgryns in their second.
It's funny as well how quickly someone's target priorities shift once their psykers start getting shot at.
It is indeed key to take out path finders (and any drones that shoot marker lights)
Also remember - drones don't easily get cover as they're not infantry.
2019/01/03 15:43:59
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
dapperbandit wrote: I have never played against Tau personally, but as far as disabling support goes, I've been pleased with the performance of Deathmarks after taking them for the first time recently. They one shot Yvrainne in my first game and took out the support buffing a unit of Bullgryns in their second.
It's funny as well how quickly someone's target priorities shift once their psykers start getting shot at.
It is indeed key to take out path finders (and any drones that shoot marker lights)
Also remember - drones don't easily get cover as they're not infantry.
All true, aggressive, high ROF shots are needed to reach them most times, but if you can get first turn and neuter markerlight forces, you're in a good way, taking away reroll 1s, and +1 BS is huge.
What Dynasty are you running your deathmarks with? How many do you run?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/01/03 15:56:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I ran them as Mephrit. Just one unit of 10 but I'm contemplating more than that. The mortal wounds output is entirely unreliable but sometimes you get like 5 or 6 and it makes you wonder about using them to focus down beefy units with invuln saves
2019/01/03 16:18:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Is there ever a need for Gauss Immortals or are Tesla Immortals just flat out better? I keep thinking the -2AP might be nice against 2+ or 3+ armor saves, but I haven't done the math to see if the increased number of hits with Tesla compensates for lack of AP. I don't want to commit to building my third Immortal unit as Gauss if it should be Tesla like the first two.
2019/01/03 16:26:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
wisetiger7 wrote: Is there ever a need for Gauss Immortals or are Tesla Immortals just flat out better? I keep thinking the -2AP might be nice against 2+ or 3+ armor saves, but I haven't done the math to see if the increased number of hits with Tesla compensates for lack of AP. I don't want to commit to building my third Immortal unit as Gauss if it should be Tesla like the first two.
I'm currently running the numbers, as I've found the 1d4chan chart to be highly misleading.
In addition to acting as if GEQ has a 6+ save and not 5+ (making Tesla seem far more appealing), it also doesn't account for -1 to hits, which are extremely common in the current meta.
I should be done in the next few hours, depending on the demand at work.
Edit: It also lists Transports as having a 4+, when Rhinos have a 3+. What the hell, chart-maker.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/03 16:30:41
2019/01/03 17:38:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
wisetiger7 wrote: Is there ever a need for Gauss Immortals or are Tesla Immortals just flat out better? I keep thinking the -2AP might be nice against 2+ or 3+ armor saves, but I haven't done the math to see if the increased number of hits with Tesla compensates for lack of AP. I don't want to commit to building my third Immortal unit as Gauss if it should be Tesla like the first two.
I'm currently running the numbers, as I've found the 1d4chan chart to be highly misleading.
In addition to acting as if GEQ has a 6+ save and not 5+ (making Tesla seem far more appealing), it also doesn't account for -1 to hits, which are extremely common in the current meta.
I should be done in the next few hours, depending on the demand at work.
Edit: It also lists Transports as having a 4+, when Rhinos have a 3+. What the hell, chart-maker.
1D4chan is basically always misleading. They defended Rubric Marines last edition and that's all you really need to know.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/01/03 18:33:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
We've run the math a whole lot of times, long story short...
Gauss is better than tesla, against 2+ and 3+ armor, but ONLY when in rapid fire range.
Tesla is better in all other cases, 4+, 5+, 6+.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/01/03 21:03:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
dapperbandit wrote:I have never played against Tau personally, but as far as disabling support goes, I've been pleased with the performance of Deathmarks after taking them for the first time recently. They one shot Yvrainne in my first game and took out the support buffing a unit of Bullgryns in their second.
It's funny as well how quickly someone's target priorities shift once their psykers start getting shot at.
It all changes when the supporting characters become T4, or even higher. Against T5 deathmarks are pretty much useless, just like any other casual sniper, like SM scouts, or AM ratlings.
2019/01/03 21:53:45
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: We've run the math a whole lot of times, long story short...
Gauss is better than tesla, against 2+ and 3+ armor, but ONLY when in rapid fire range.
Tesla is better in all other cases, 4+, 5+, 6+.
Either way, more peer review for numbers is good. I'd prefer to go ahead and do it to see what happens, even if the same conclusion is reached.
Image 1 is the base numbers, along with amount gained through MWBD. I picked Drones as a decent 4+ save example. Image 2 is a collection of comparisons that are a bit easier to parse.
The conclusion is that base Tesla only beats rapid fire Gauss against GEQ and weaker (I forgot to run the numbers for 6+, apologies. It's a larger gap though). MWBD gives Tesla a new, sizable lead, but it still loses in every other category against RF Gauss. However, it has a large lead between it and regular Gauss when not RF.
Gauss gets fewer damage benefits from MWBD as well, but that was fairly obvious.
Tesla has a massive drop in damage when faced with a -1 to hit, but I just realized that I messed up. I never calculated Gauss's damage against a similar -1 to hit. Crap. I'll take care of it later, along with adding 6+ save numbers.
Either way, the numbers show that Tesla is inferior to RF Gauss unless against GEQ or weaker, but the issue remains getting those Gauss units into RF range. I lean towards the Tesla's range making it overall the more effective choice, but Gauss isn't bad at all. Even when forced to not use RF, it can deal reasonable damage. Tesla just gets way too good of a buff from MWBD.
2019/01/04 03:05:45
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Regarding Deathmarks, they should either be Assault 2 or have a longer range Rapid Fire gun. Most players shield their important Characters with lesser units making them hard to reach by standard Necron range. Most other units that are used in Deep Strike tend to have Toughness higher than 4, which again makes Deathmarks pretty bad. I can see them being viable against Tau Drones, but other than that, pretty bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/04 03:42:59
2019/01/04 04:24:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Playing 1500pts vs Eldar in a few days against a person I never played before so need help making an "all comers list" as they could literally bring anything.
I came up with 2 lists but not sure on their viability.
They need to drop another 20-30 points to be worth considering.
60PL 
12PL 
First of all you have to wait until turn 2, thats 465 pts. of your army doing nothing turn 1. Second, three pylons are kinda big. You need a lot of space for them. Third, they have no protection. Your opponent can charge them, tie them up with a cheap chaff unit, and render them useless. They cant escape with their tiny 3" movement.
4000 pts
4000+
Thousand Sons 4000+
