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I dont know much about eldar, but you should ignore a hemlock wraith fighter, as it can stack -3 to hit, making it nearly impossible to kill, unless you can auto hit it, or put a lot of MW on it. And even then the fighter can get a 6+ FNP against that.

COLD CASH wrote:
Personally i think the barge is a waste of points.

I would probably run a mix of both - a battalion and 3 dda spearhead with stalker.

It gives you both balance and power.

This is about right

 p5freak wrote:
I dont know much about eldar, but you should ignore a hemlock wraith fighter, as it can stack -3 to hit, making it nearly impossible to kill, unless you can auto hit it, or put a lot of MW on it. And even then the fighter can get a 6+ FNP against that.

Aye, our only option is, if they fly close by to our lines, is to send a C'tan to deal with it in melee. It will have -1 to hit at maximum there and it being T6 makes all C'tan somewhat capable of damaging it. The problem is:
-It's deadly overwatch.
-It's auto-hitting weapons means damaging it won't be good enough.

Doctoralex wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
I dont know much about eldar, but you should ignore a hemlock wraith fighter, as it can stack -3 to hit, making it nearly impossible to kill, unless you can auto hit it, or put a lot of MW on it. And even then the fighter can get a 6+ FNP against that.

Aye, our only option is, if they fly close by to our lines, is to send a C'tan to deal with it in melee. It will have -1 to hit at maximum there and it being T6 makes all C'tan somewhat capable of damaging it. The problem is:
-It's deadly overwatch.
-It's auto-hitting weapons means damaging it won't be good enough.

If you have a C'TAn, you likely also have scarabs to screen it. Let them take the overwatch, they also Fly. As for the other problem, I don't know. Bring two C'Tans?

Could bring the Transcendent C'tan and let it use 2 power and the Nightbringer? Not really sure if the Deceiver would help out.

Man, it's hard trying to list around Eldar. The speed, pysker powers and cheap good units is a very hard counter for us.

So, I had a very silly list idea which I think could be fun, running a c'tan bomb.

Specifically, running a deceiver, nightbringer, and a cosmic transcendent ctan, with a 9 man unit of scarabs.

The deceiver takes the other c'tan and scarabs, and places them all 12 inches away, they then move into range (they cannot charge but thats ok), and barrage the enemy with mortal wounds, using the ctan power strategem to add another power, with 27 ablative scarab wounds to get through before you can harm the big guys. Some of those powers would be devastating against tightly packed bubble armies.

Paired with Nephrek wraiths for a turn 1 charge, could give someone a lot of threats to think about in a semi-casual game.

Question would be then, which ctan powers should I use for maximum damage against a fresh army?

I'm thinking Sky of Falling Stars, Cosmic Fire, and Antimatter Meteor. Then use the star god wrath strategem to get another random power.

Any merit to this?

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I had a very silly list idea which I think could be fun, running a c'tan bomb.

Specifically, running a deceiver, nightbringer, and a cosmic transcendent ctan, with a 9 man unit of scarabs.

The deceiver takes the other c'tan and scarabs, and places them all 12 inches away, they then move into range (they cannot charge but thats ok), and barrage the enemy with mortal wounds, using the ctan power strategem to add another power, with 27 ablative scarab wounds to get through before you can harm the big guys. Some of those powers would be devastating against tightly packed bubble armies.

Paired with Nephrek wraiths for a turn 1 charge, could give someone a lot of threats to think about in a semi-casual game.

Question would be then, which ctan powers should I use for maximum damage against a fresh army?

I'm thinking Sky of Falling Stars, Cosmic Fire, and Antimatter Meteor. Then use the star god wrath strategem to get another random power.

Any merit to this?

Wraiths are key, giving them more to worry about, otherwise they will quite easily chew through those scarabs and start blowing up the ctans

elook wrote:
Regarding Deathmarks, they should either be Assault 2 or have a longer range Rapid Fire gun. Most players shield their important Characters with lesser units making them hard to reach by standard Necron range. Most other units that are used in Deep Strike tend to have Toughness higher than 4, which again makes Deathmarks pretty bad. I can see them being viable against Tau Drones, but other than that, pretty bad.

Either Assault 2, an inmate AP-1, or longer range.

Or even some combination of the above as long as the points are correct.

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I had a very silly list idea which I think could be fun, running a c'tan bomb....

What if you roll a 1 for the deceiver, and you re-roll for another 1 or 2 ? Lets say you roll to get a 3, and you can redeploy two ctans and a scarab screen unit. They can do two ctan powers, and a third random one for 2 CP. Doesnt sound very exciting to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

elook wrote:
Regarding Deathmarks, they should either be Assault 2 or have a longer range Rapid Fire gun. Most players shield their important Characters with lesser units making them hard to reach by standard Necron range. Most other units that are used in Deep Strike tend to have Toughness higher than 4, which again makes Deathmarks pretty bad. I can see them being viable against Tau Drones, but other than that, pretty bad.

Either Assault 2, an inmate AP-1, or longer range.

Or even some combination of the above as long as the points are correct.

Infantry should always be wounded on 3+, with MW on 5+ against them. They have fething sniper rifles, they should be a real threat. Every sniper rifle in the entire game should have that rule. Right now snipers are a joke.

@p5freak

Quite possible. If that happens, we deploy what we can out of LOS, and make due, if I get 2, I'll work with it, 1...that would be very problematic. Again, sort of a silly gimmick list.

 Werekill wrote:
Either way, the numbers show that Tesla is inferior to RF Gauss unless against GEQ or weaker, but the issue remains getting those Gauss units into RF range. I lean towards the Tesla's range making it overall the more effective choice, but Gauss isn't bad at all. Even when forced to not use RF, it can deal reasonable damage. Tesla just gets way too good of a buff from MWBD.

What is reasonable damage? You are losing damage against 90% of targets at range 13-24" when using, often more than 50% of your damage output, that's not decent at all. Once your Gauss Immortals are locked against a mob of Boyz you are out of luck, your RF won't help you get out of that one. Meanwhile, Tesla Immortals have done a much more signifigant amount of damage before getting locked in combat. With how little better Gauss is and against how few targets it is better, Gauss Immortals are never the right choice. Tomb Blades with Gauss, Destroyers, DDAs, Ghost Arks, Tesseract Arks are all better. There are only two correct Troops choices, those are Tesla Immortals and Warriors. Warriors are only the right choice if you are doing an army with no models with a 3+ Sv and you are expecting lots of MWs and/or close combat. I don't think there is a single list where I would say that taking a unit of Immortals was the best thing for that list after having done the math for all the different things you can shoot at.

 Odrankt wrote:
Could bring the Transcendent C'tan and let it use 2 power and the Nightbringer? Not really sure if the Deceiver would help out.

Man, it's hard trying to list around Eldar. The speed, pysker powers and cheap good units is a very hard counter for us.

Go all-in on Shooting, melee is terrible against most Aeldari lists.

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I had a very silly list idea which I think could be fun, running a c'tan bomb.

Specifically, running a deceiver, nightbringer, and a cosmic transcendent ctan, with a 9 man unit of scarabs.

The deceiver takes the other c'tan and scarabs, and places them all 12 inches away, they then move into range (they cannot charge but thats ok), and barrage the enemy with mortal wounds, using the ctan power strategem to add another power, with 27 ablative scarab wounds to get through before you can harm the big guys. Some of those powers would be devastating against tightly packed bubble armies.

Paired with Nephrek wraiths for a turn 1 charge, could give someone a lot of threats to think about in a semi-casual game.

Question would be then, which ctan powers should I use for maximum damage against a fresh army?

I'm thinking Sky of Falling Stars, Cosmic Fire, and Antimatter Meteor. Then use the star god wrath strategem to get another random power.

Any merit to this?

I have posted a number of battle reports on the subject. My most succesful go at it was using a Tesseract Vault, Deceiver and Nightbringer, it was incredibly powerful when going first with all three C'tan going into my opponent's face and all using Cosmic Fire. I also tried it with just the Nightbringer and the Deceiver that also worked pretty well, but not amazingly. I would advise against taking a single Transcendent C'tan and instead take 0 or 2, if you have 3 small C'tan you are forced to take each power once which is pretty terrible. If you take two you can have two powers twice, creating the possibility of having Cosmic Fire twice at the start of the game and using a CP to change out a power on a third C'tan so you can use Cosmic Fire three times on the first turn, that is an incredibly devastating tactic. Otherwise sticking with 1 lets you still use Cosmic Fire twice by replacing one of the Nightbringer's powers for 1 CP. Another thing I will say is that you should never pay 2 CP to use an extra power with a small C'tan, it's almost always a waste. It's an incredible Stratagem on the Tesseract Vault (especially when it lets you use Cosmic Fire a fourth time), but not on the Deceiver/Nightbringer. A thing to remember is that you can use Powers of the C'tan after advancing, so feel free to Advance to just over 1" away and then blast away with Cosmic Fire. One last thing is that you can Heroically Intervene at the end of your opponent's Charge phase even if your opponent did not declare a charge, so get your C'tan to within 3" of a model with a Heavy weapon and watch your opponent's face drop as they realise they are getting "charged" without being allowed to Overwatch because they chose to stay still and shoot.

I won a 1k game against a noob Tyranid player with my illegal quad C'tan list. I moved forward turn 1 and plinked a couple of wounds off his guys, on my opponent's first turn he attempted to charge but failed with a number of units. On my second turn I turned up the heat being in range with everything and then I charged and killed a third of his army. My opponent surrendered at this point. I randomly generated everything so I wasn't going super hard on my opponent, but I think I need to stick with min-size units more in the future for games with people who have played less than 5 games. I realised during the writing of this that my list was illegal, 1 HQ, 2 Elites, 1 FA, 2 HS. I should have replaced my Scarabs with a HS or an Elites choice.

That heroically intervene trick was nice. Is it set in stone that you get to do this.without him declaring any charges

torblind wrote:
That heroically intervene trick was nice. Is it set in stone that you get to do this.without him declaring any charges

Yes it is. BRB update 1.3 :

Q: Can you perform Heroic Interventions in your opponent’s
charge phase even if they did not declare any charges
that phase?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you ever perform a Heroic Intervention during your
own turn?
A: No.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Werekill wrote:
Either way, the numbers show that Tesla is inferior to RF Gauss unless against GEQ or weaker, but the issue remains getting those Gauss units into RF range. I lean towards the Tesla's range making it overall the more effective choice, but Gauss isn't bad at all. Even when forced to not use RF, it can deal reasonable damage. Tesla just gets way too good of a buff from MWBD.

What is reasonable damage? You are losing damage against 90% of targets at range 13-24" when using, often more than 50% of your damage output, that's not decent at all. Once your Gauss Immortals are locked against a mob of Boyz you are out of luck, your RF won't help you get out of that one. Meanwhile, Tesla Immortals have done a much more signifigant amount of damage before getting locked in combat. With how little better Gauss is and against how few targets it is better, Gauss Immortals are never the right choice. Tomb Blades with Gauss, Destroyers, DDAs, Ghost Arks, Tesseract Arks are all better. There are only two correct Troops choices, those are Tesla Immortals and Warriors. Warriors are only the right choice if you are doing an army with no models with a 3+ Sv and you are expecting lots of MWs and/or close combat. I don't think there is a single list where I would say that taking a unit of Immortals was the best thing for that list after having done the math for all the different things you can shoot at.

"Reasonable damage" is exactly that: reasonable damage for the points. Tesla and RF Gauss just happen to be extremely powerful in comparison.

I even said that Tesla is more than likely the most optimal choice, given the range and massive buff from MWBD. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

Had a game against ultramarines where I managed to get the deceiver in range of an imperial castle (7 units hit by cosmic fire), used star god wrath, rolled cosmic fire again randomly, and dealt something like 15 mortal wounds in a phase, shooting phase then caused most of the vehicles to chain react explode, killing his characters and vehicles...a lot of what was left was then killed by the ctan itself exploding when charged by a contemptor which barely survived. Game ended bottom of turn 2. Ouch.

Minus the absurd stroke of luck it was neat trying out a new ctan power in a perfect storm situation.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Had a game against ultramarines where I managed to get the deceiver in range of an imperial castle (7 units hit by cosmic fire), used star god wrath, rolled cosmic fire again randomly, and dealt something like 15 mortal wounds in a phase, shooting phase then caused most of the vehicles to chain react explode, killing his characters and vehicles...a lot of what was left was then killed by the ctan itself exploding when charged by a contemptor which barely survived. Game ended bottom of turn 2. Ouch.

Minus the absurd stroke of luck it was neat trying out a new ctan power in a perfect storm situation.

Sounds absolutely hilarious, great play!

Anybody got info on how necrons are doing post CA ?

To me it seemed like we would be better off but we just have to spam DDAs Wraiths, maybe 1 2 Stalkers

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Anybody got info on how necrons are doing post CA ?

To me it seemed like we would be better off but we just have to spam DDAs Wraiths, maybe 1 2 Stalkers

At least we saved 30pts for taking 3 squad of 10 Immortals, or 40pts for taking 2 20 strong warrior squad.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Anybody got info on how necrons are doing post CA ?

To me it seemed like we would be better off but we just have to spam DDAs Wraiths, maybe 1 2 Stalkers

At least we saved 30pts for taking 3 squad of 10 Immortals, or 40pts for taking 2 20 strong warrior squad.

Fun thing is:

I actually really appreciate the drops as now we can play 2 battalions. 13CP are always nice.

Sadly I still dont play my Crons as I think they got kinda boring? Just spam DDAs, Wraiths. Maybe Destroyers. 1 or 2 10x Immortals. And very little variation.

The most fun thing is probably a TombBlades list but I dont have that many Blades for it sadly

I just realized that you can combine talent for annihilation and extermination protocols, if you have mephrit destroyers. 18 shots, re-rolling all failed hit rolls, maybe getting even more 6s, which generate more shots, which can also be re-rolled.

 p5freak wrote:
I just realized that you can combine talent for annihilation and extermination protocols, if you have mephrit destroyers. 18 shots, re-rolling all failed hit rolls, maybe getting even more 6s, which generate more shots, which can also be re-rolled.

I feel like it was already discussed, and the conclusion is that it's great but the Nephrekh really helps with surviving so much it's hard to give up.

I know I had a hard time giving up Deep Strike.

Yea but with the new reserve restrictions I think it's got more merit then before. I am generally not a fan of mephrit but maybe I will give them another go but my go to has been Imotekh.

Mephrit Gauss Immortals pair well with the deceiver. Instantly get them in RF on a flank...No much survives 60 STR 5 AP -3 shots

Outside Daemons and Imperial Guard which survive the same.

So far I haven't had a ton of fun playing with my Necrons. I've basically been playing "I'm gonna try and shoot you before you assault me". Here's what I have been using for the most part:

DDA
20 Warriors
10 Immortals
5 Destroyers
20 scarabs
AB
Night Scythe
Doom Scythe
Lord and 2 Crypteks

I have these models painted but haven't used them much:
3 Wraiths
3 Spiders

I'm looking to finish collecting/painting my Necron army before summer. I was thinking of getting some Tomb Blades and another DDA as my final additions, but realized that there are some models that I haven't even considered.

I was wondering what people thought of these units, and how I could work them in with what I have:
C'tan Shards
Lychguard
Preatorians

They might help make the battles a little more interesting, but do I really want go in the melee direction with Necrons? Any insight would be appreciated.

Discodoggy wrote:

Spoiler:

So far I haven't had a ton of fun playing with my Necrons. I've basically been playing "I'm gonna try and shoot you before you assault me". Here's what I have been using for the most part:

DDA
20 Warriors
10 Immortals
5 Destroyers
20 scarabs
AB
Night Scythe
Doom Scythe
Lord and 2 Crypteks

I have these models painted but haven't used them much:
3 Wraiths
3 Spiders

I'm looking to finish collecting/painting my Necron army before summer. I was thinking of getting some Tomb Blades and another DDA as my final additions, but realized that there are some models that I haven't even considered.

I was wondering what people thought of these units, and how I could work them in with what I have:
C'tan Shards
Lychguard
Preatorians

They might help make the battles a little more interesting, but do I really want go in the melee direction with Necrons? Any insight would be appreciated.

In a competitive environment Lychguard and Praetorians are not that viable. C'tan can be good. Just depends which one you bring. The Deceiver is possibly the best C'tan due to Grand Illusion. The other 2 are also good but don't see that much use on the table top from my experience.

From your original list you are field a few lack luster units if I'm being honest. Anni barges are only okay. Even with CA18 making them cheaper. Same can be said for the N scythe and Doom Scythe. Warriors can be okay. But are only viable if your Warlord is using Immortal pride for auto pass morale and if backed by a ChromoCryptek.

Depending on your Meta and your play style. I would definitely get Tomb Blades and 2 more DDAs. I would also recommend you get 2-3 Tesseract Arks and 1 Triarch Stalker.

Going melee crons isn't a bad idea but only if your playing Novokh and if your playing a friendly game. Otherwise, just stay as gun line and do as you stated. Shoot stuff off the table before getting assault.

A question regarding The Deceiver's Grand Illusion. Can units and The Deceiver still move/advance after using Grand Illusion, just not charge?

elook wrote:
A question regarding The Deceiver's Grand Illusion. Can units and The Deceiver still move/advance after using Grand Illusion, just not charge?

I believe yes.

Unless it explicitly says they cannot, they still can.

elook wrote:
A question regarding The Deceiver's Grand Illusion. Can units and The Deceiver still move/advance after using Grand Illusion, just not charge?

Yes. The only thing you can't do is charge during your 1st turn.

Discodoggy wrote:
So far I haven't had a ton of fun playing with my Necrons. I've basically been playing "I'm gonna try and shoot you before you assault me". Here's what I have been using for the most part....

One DDA is not worth using, you need at least two. I would also suggest to get a triarch stalker with twin HGC. Get 3 more wraith. 3x10 tesla immortals are good with an overlord. Dont use spyders and scythes. I usually play overlord, cryptek, tesla immortals, DDAs, triarch stalker, destroyers, wraith, scarabs, tomb blades.