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2019/01/09 16:44:27
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
p5freak wrote: The rule of 3 is not a rule. Its a suggestion for organised play. Its up to the TO, if he uses it, or not.
While this IS true, it is important to assume the rule might be in place. Granted there's not a ton of areas Necrons are affected (SCARABS WILL BLACK OUT THE SUN).
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/01/09 18:36:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
I submitted the list a week ago and he gave me to all clear so I should be okay. If people give me gakk I'll just bring the TO around and show them the email. The TO can't go back on his word than once evidence is shown he agreed to my list.
I'll keep you guys updated though. I came 2nd out of 40th people at the last 1k event. Lost 1st place via 1VP cause my Overlord failed a 6" charge against my opponents Warlord.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 20:07:27
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
I submitted the list a week ago and he gave me to all clear so I should be okay. If people give me gakk I'll just bring the TO around and show them the email. The TO can't go back on his word than once evidence is shown he agreed to my list.
I'll keep you guys updated though. I came 2nd out of 40th people at the last 1k event. Lost 1st place via 1VP cause my Overlord failed a 6" charge against my opponents Warlord.
Would be cool if you could do that.
Can you reconstruct the last event youve been in? Always like to read what people bring and how they play the list.
2019/01/09 21:56:38
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
Wait rule of 2? I thought 3 identical units was fine (assuming using the Matched Play suggestions)?
Read further up in the thread, it's a 1000 point tournament, that means max 2 of one datasheet. (2000 means max 3)
Expect my TO specify stated in the rules pack we may bring a max of 3 units besides Transports and Troops. I would show it but not sure how to show images on dakka without the whole img taking up a lot of space.
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
Wait rule of 2? I thought 3 identical units was fine (assuming using the Matched Play suggestions)?
Read further up in the thread, it's a 1000 point tournament, that means max 2 of one datasheet. (2000 means max 3)
Expect my TO specify stated in the rules pack we may bring a max of 3 units besides Transports and Troops. I would show it but not sure how to show images on dakka without the whole img taking up a lot of space.
It's ok, I was just explaining to him in general how the rule of three, really is the rule of X given Y.
2019/01/10 13:22:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
Wait rule of 2? I thought 3 identical units was fine (assuming using the Matched Play suggestions)?
Read further up in the thread, it's a 1000 point tournament, that means max 2 of one datasheet. (2000 means max 3)
Expect my TO specify stated in the rules pack we may bring a max of 3 units besides Transports and Troops. I would show it but not sure how to show images on dakka without the whole img taking up a lot of space.
You can put pictures in a spoiler for future reference, I don't really think it matters too much. I think taking as many DDAs as possible is good advice for most tournament formats, whether that's 1 or 11 is kind of irrelevant.
I won a 1k game against a Khorne Daemon noob with a Mephrit list featuring a squad of 6 Destroyers, a Nightbringer and a squad of 8 Teslamortals. I did a suicide manouvre with my Nightbringer but ended up not losing him. I only lost a squad of 10 Warriors because my opponent split his forces too much.
I won a 2k game against a Necron player with an Imotekh Szeras list with 6 Destroyers and 10 Wraiths using my Zahndrekh Night Shroud list. His list felt quite a lot weaker than my usual list, my opponent was too defensive with his Wraiths which meant they were basically dead-weight.
I won a 2k game against a Night/AM player with my Zahndrekh Imotekh Overlord double Battalion list. I was lucky enough that my opponent never really got much damage off on me, the game was over turn 2, I would have wiped him turn 3 or 4. The Knight player borrowed my list and lost a game with it against a Dark Angels gunline, I didn't watch the game so I can't say whether it was just because he kept on rolling badly.
I won a 1500 pt game against a soft Deathwatch list using my Mephrit list. I had a squad of 10 Deathmarks that intercepted a squad of 5 Terminators and left one guy alive with 1 wound.
++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [33 PL, 450pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynasty Choice
+ Flyer [33 PL, 450pts] +
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
++ Total: [124 PL, 2000pts] ++
I won a 2k Maelstrom game against a bike spam list (7 units of 3, all with melta) using my triple D-Scythe Mephrit list. My opponent chose to go second, that gave him very little chance of winning. I played conservatively and used the superior range and mobility of my Destroyers and Flyers to pick of most of my opponents army before he managed to do any damage to me. I chose not to DS my Deathmarks because I thought I would have him in my face T1, that didn't happen.
I won a 2k ITC game against a double Corvus Blackstar Deathwatch/AM list, my opponent went second and failed to kill anything on his first turn, giving me two turns of shooting before he had a chance to do damage. My opponent said he was trying to make a competitive list so I thought I should put up the biggest challenge I have available, but my opponent rolled so poorly that I don't think it would have mattered what list I brought.
I think it might be a good idea for me to make some new casual lists, because I'm not sure if I feel like my Night Shroud list or my triple D-Scythe lists qualify.
2019/01/10 13:23:11
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
+ Heavy Support +
Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
get the wraiths and C'tan and warlord into the orks face asap .. T1 charge one squad .. DDA's do what DDA's do!
troops camp objectives
the rest picks off outlying objective campers.
2 DDA was enough .. I think adding a third would have crippled his mobility but also screwed my own.
2019/01/10 13:31:49
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
+ Heavy Support +
Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
get the wraiths and C'tan and warlord into the orks face asap .. T1 charge one squad .. DDA's do what DDA's do!
troops camp objectives
the rest picks off outlying objective campers.
2 DDA was enough .. I think adding a third would have crippled his mobility but also screwed my own.
Against Orks I mostly use my DDAs like Ghost Arks, against most competitive Ork lists you don't have anything to shoot with the high power profile anyways. That actually makes them more mobile than most of our other units. Using them as a wave-breaker against the big mobs is also pretty effective because their durability is quite good for their cost when facing Ork Boys and they can fall back and shoot if they don't get popped. If you make the Nihilakh Detachment into Sautekh and replace the Spyder and maybe some Tomb Blades with a DDA and the Cryptek with a Lord I think your list would become stronger. Maybe remove some Wraiths as well so you can get 2x10 Tesla Immortals if you're willing to get another 10 Teslamortals for the list.
2019/01/10 13:39:03
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
+ Heavy Support +
Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
get the wraiths and C'tan and warlord into the orks face asap .. T1 charge one squad .. DDA's do what DDA's do!
troops camp objectives
the rest picks off outlying objective campers.
2 DDA was enough .. I think adding a third would have crippled his mobility but also screwed my own.
Against Orks I mostly use my DDAs like Ghost Arks, against most competitive Ork lists you don't have anything to shoot with the high power profile anyways. That actually makes them more mobile than most of our other units. Using them as a wave-breaker against the big mobs is also pretty effective because their durability is quite good for their cost when facing Ork Boys and they can fall back and shoot if they don't get popped. If you make the Nihilakh Detachment into Sautekh and replace the Spyder and maybe some Tomb Blades with a DDA and the Cryptek with a Lord I think your list would become stronger. Maybe remove some Wraiths as well so you can get 2x10 Tesla Immortals if you're willing to get another 10 Teslamortals for the list.
cheers, the spyder was only a HS tax and potential to repair the DDA .. but they are never a target so become superfluous.
the rapid fire from the DDA did some nice work ... considering I have 18 destroyers in my kit, I'm liking lists that don't use them more and more.
that's next on the list for me 10 more immortals with Tesla, they are just too good, but at that point I'm going Mephrit Brigade.
2019/01/10 13:54:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah it'd be nice to double check with him that he is ok with it even if it violates the rule of 2 in this case.
No point putting him in a position where he is forced to go back on his own word or give you an unfair advantage to everyone else. Just double-check.
Wait rule of 2? I thought 3 identical units was fine (assuming using the Matched Play suggestions)?
Read further up in the thread, it's a 1000 point tournament, that means max 2 of one datasheet. (2000 means max 3)
Expect my TO specify stated in the rules pack we may bring a max of 3 units besides Transports and Troops. I would show it but not sure how to show images on dakka without the whole img taking up a lot of space.
You can put pictures in a spoiler for future reference, I don't really think it matters too much. I think taking as many DDAs as possible is good advice for most tournament formats, whether that's 1 or 11 is kind of irrelevant.
I won a 1k game against a Khorne Daemon noob with a Mephrit list featuring a squad of 6 Destroyers, a Nightbringer and a squad of 8 Teslamortals. I did a suicide manouvre with my Nightbringer but ended up not losing him. I only lost a squad of 10 Warriors because my opponent split his forces too much.
I won a 2k game against a Necron player with an Imotekh Szeras list with 6 Destroyers and 10 Wraiths using my Zahndrekh Night Shroud list. His list felt quite a lot weaker than my usual list, my opponent was too defensive with his Wraiths which meant they were basically dead-weight.
I won a 2k game against a Night/AM player with my Zahndrekh Imotekh Overlord double Battalion list. I was lucky enough that my opponent never really got much damage off on me, the game was over turn 2, I would have wiped him turn 3 or 4. The Knight player borrowed my list and lost a game with it against a Dark Angels gunline, I didn't watch the game so I can't say whether it was just because he kept on rolling badly.
I won a 1500 pt game against a soft Deathwatch list using my Mephrit list. I had a squad of 10 Deathmarks that intercepted a squad of 5 Terminators and left one guy alive with 1 wound.
++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [33 PL, 450pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynasty Choice
+ Flyer [33 PL, 450pts] +
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]
++ Total: [124 PL, 2000pts] ++
I won a 2k Maelstrom game against a bike spam list (7 units of 3, all with melta) using my triple D-Scythe Mephrit list. My opponent chose to go second, that gave him very little chance of winning. I played conservatively and used the superior range and mobility of my Destroyers and Flyers to pick of most of my opponents army before he managed to do any damage to me. I chose not to DS my Deathmarks because I thought I would have him in my face T1, that didn't happen.
I won a 2k ITC game against a double Corvus Blackstar Deathwatch/AM list, my opponent went second and failed to kill anything on his first turn, giving me two turns of shooting before he had a chance to do damage. My opponent said he was trying to make a competitive list so I thought I should put up the biggest challenge I have available, but my opponent rolled so poorly that I don't think it would have mattered what list I brought.
I think it might be a good idea for me to make some new casual lists, because I'm not sure if I feel like my Night Shroud list or my triple D-Scythe lists qualify.
Cool reports! How did your DooM Scythe's perform, were you using their Strategem?
2019/01/10 20:15:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
dapperbandit wrote: Cool reports! How did your DooM Scythe's perform, were you using their Strategem?
I chose to inform my opponent of the Stratagem before deployment, my opponent spread his forces really thin. I never had a good time to use the Strat, you need about 4 units before it becomes worth it and that's a lot for a 3" radius explosion, it's only relevant against castles, if I didn't warn my opponent it might have been relevant. I've learned enough Stratagems the hard way that I know that's not the way I want to lose a game, I don't particularly want to win that way either. But I did exploit the fact that my opponent was forced to spread his forces to avoid the Stratagem, how much that is worth exactly is absurdly hard to quantify, I felt like they did okay for their current price. I think they'd be strong if it wasn't for their hard counters being OP. Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, Lootas, Gauss Pylons. The AP from Mephrit helped quite a bit against MEQ, but Sautekh might be better if you aren't planning on keeping the Stratagem a secret.
2019/01/10 21:27:07
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Posted this is the army list page, but want to get opinions from my fellow metal men players. I'm looking for opinions on a possible list for a tournament in May. I'll need to buy, build and paint a fair few units for whichever list I build, so looking to figure out which direction to go early.
Healthy Balanced Diet Sautekh Necrons
Battalion: Imotekh the Stormlord
Cryptek: Canoptek Cloak, The Abyssal Staff
10 x Immortals
10 x Immortals
10 x Immortals
1 x Nightbringer
6 x Wraiths
3 x Scarabs
Spearhead: 1 x Lord: Hyperphase Sword, Veil of Darkness
1 x DDA 1 x DDA 1 x DDA
What do you think? I had Destroyers over the Wraiths in the first draft, but I feel like the combat flank of wraiths and Nightbringer gives me some flexibility. The DDA triplets are standard at this point, and Imotekh make sense with the 3 x Immortals plus his storm is a nice psuedo smite. Any ideas for changes? The tournament was described to me as 'competitive, but not insane' so not expecting to run into 100% grossness, but I'm pretty sure it'll be Knights a go-go. However it will also essentially be modified versions of the new CA missions, so Knights have their own problems.
Anyway, yeah, what do you think?
P.s. some tournament rules here. They don't hugely affect this list, but do affect what I'll run into:
• Battle forged matched play armies only, of at most 3 Detachments
• One detachment must be chosen as the primary detachment
• The Primary Detachment must be the detachment with the highest points value
• The Warlord must be in the Primary Detachment
• ONE special Character may be taken per army
(The Gellarpox and Farstriders do not count as special characters for this purpose)
• Warlord Traits and Relics can only be used by the Primary Detachment
• Army Specific Stratagems can ONLY be used from the codex of the Primary Detachment
(So the main rulebook ones can be used by the whole army)
2019/01/11 02:07:20
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Posted this is the army list page, but want to get opinions from my fellow metal men players. I'm looking for opinions on a possible list for a tournament in May. I'll need to buy, build and paint a fair few units for whichever list I build, so looking to figure out which direction to go early.
Healthy Balanced Diet Sautekh Necrons
Battalion: Imotekh the Stormlord
Cryptek: Canoptek Cloak, The Abyssal Staff
10 x Immortals
10 x Immortals
10 x Immortals
1 x Nightbringer
6 x Wraiths
3 x Scarabs
Spearhead: 1 x Lord: Hyperphase Sword, Veil of Darkness
1 x DDA 1 x DDA 1 x DDA
What do you think? I had Destroyers over the Wraiths in the first draft, but I feel like the combat flank of wraiths and Nightbringer gives me some flexibility. The DDA triplets are standard at this point, and Imotekh make sense with the 3 x Immortals plus his storm is a nice psuedo smite. Any ideas for changes? The tournament was described to me as 'competitive, but not insane' so not expecting to run into 100% grossness, but I'm pretty sure it'll be Knights a go-go. However it will also essentially be modified versions of the new CA missions, so Knights have their own problems.
Anyway, yeah, what do you think?
P.s. some tournament rules here. They don't hugely affect this list, but do affect what I'll run into:
• Battle forged matched play armies only, of at most 3 Detachments
• One detachment must be chosen as the primary detachment
• The Primary Detachment must be the detachment with the highest points value
• The Warlord must be in the Primary Detachment
• ONE special Character may be taken per army
(The Gellarpox and Farstriders do not count as special characters for this purpose)
• Warlord Traits and Relics can only be used by the Primary Detachment
• Army Specific Stratagems can ONLY be used from the codex of the Primary Detachment
(So the main rulebook ones can be used by the whole army)
I like it!
My only suggestion is that you need more wounds on the board. The Ctan and Wraiths are so juicy for smites and smite spam chaos is a top teir list that will eat up armies like this. If you want to keep the Ctan, I would drop three wraiths for more scarabs. Then you have a big increase in wounds.
Good luck!
Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/
2019/01/12 12:26:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
After making a lot of lists and having a lot of them dismantled before my very eyes in this thread, I'd like to post the idea I'm going towards right now.
Hoping you don't crash my dreams with this one too.
It's a total of 1998 points and 10 CPs. The 2 warrior units + the lord and cryptek from the same detachment are a "deathstar". I plan to use my Deceiver to redeploy both warrior squads .If I roll d1 (for units that are being redeployed) I'll be spending CP to reroll d2 or better to make sure I get both of them in RF range.The cryptek with the lord as supposed to be joining with the VoD. Scarabs are either going to screen the Deceiver/Wraiths if there's dangerous smiting or just try to get objectives while being out of LoS.
I'm hoping 2 RF range warrior squads with mephrit AP-1, Mephrit Stratagem for 6s and rerolling from the lord are going to be considerable alpha strike and hopefully with Fearless bubble, the 5++ bubble and the improved RP bubble from the Cryptek they can also take a lot of heat. It's really only 603 points for both HQs and both warrior blobs, and there's going to be Wraiths/DestroyerLord following up.
Now to the question: Should I make the Outrider Nephrekh so that scarabs can roam free and Wraiths can pretty easily get the turn 1 charge (with the Advance + assault stratagem) and make a bigger impact of the alpha strike or should I make them Novokh for the keks and deadliness? I don't want to make the Destroyer Lord my warlord as I want to have my warriors be fearless, so I'm not going to benefit from D.Lord buffing Wraiths with novokh things etc.
So, you know.. Go ahead DakkaDakka and destroy my dreams about this list working too <3
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/01/12 15:33:34
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
necr0n wrote: After making a lot of lists and having a lot of them dismantled before my very eyes in this thread, I'd like to post the idea I'm going towards right now.
Hoping you don't crash my dreams with this one too.
It's a total of 1998 points and 10 CPs. The 2 warrior units + the lord and cryptek from the same detachment are a "deathstar". I plan to use my Deceiver to redeploy both warrior squads .If I roll d1 (for units that are being redeployed) I'll be spending CP to reroll d2 or better to make sure I get both of them in RF range.The cryptek with the lord as supposed to be joining with the VoD. Scarabs are either going to screen the Deceiver/Wraiths if there's dangerous smiting or just try to get objectives while being out of LoS.
I'm hoping 2 RF range warrior squads with mephrit AP-1, Mephrit Stratagem for 6s and rerolling from the lord are going to be considerable alpha strike and hopefully with Fearless bubble, the 5++ bubble and the improved RP bubble from the Cryptek they can also take a lot of heat. It's really only 603 points for both HQs and both warrior blobs, and there's going to be Wraiths/DestroyerLord following up.
Now to the question: Should I make the Outrider Nephrekh so that scarabs can roam free and Wraiths can pretty easily get the turn 1 charge (with the Advance + assault stratagem) and make a bigger impact of the alpha strike or should I make them Novokh for the keks and deadliness? I don't want to make the Destroyer Lord my warlord as I want to have my warriors be fearless, so I'm not going to benefit from D.Lord buffing Wraiths with novokh things etc.
So, you know.. Go ahead DakkaDakka and destroy my dreams about this list working too <3
Some things to consider:
1. Lord as warlord is lacking invulnerable saves, once you are in the face of the enemy, they will be trying to tear him apart. Proper positioning will help with not getting shot (though if playing against imperium they will be using Sniper Scouts so not much can be done there) but they will use melee to take him out. I do understand the aura buff is the goal, but you might be giving up an easy warlord kill.
2. Novokh is the best for the Scarabs, their 4+ WS needs the rerolls if you happen to use them to fight. Nephrekh speed is nice, but the units you are using are already fast even with poor Advance rolls.
Depending on your choice you might want to reconsider the HQ for this detachment. You might have to make some other unit changes, but think about one of the "neutral" named characters. They can still use their aura buffs on units, even when not from the same detachment. For example: Illuminor Szeras could sit back with the Immortals or Warriors and pop his 36" gun at things, while improving their stats for the game.
2019/01/12 18:14:11
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
1. Lord as warlord is lacking invulnerable saves, once you are in the face of the enemy, they will be trying to tear him apart. Proper positioning will help with not getting shot (though if playing against imperium they will be using Sniper Scouts so not much can be done there) but they will use melee to take him out. I do understand the aura buff is the goal, but you might be giving up an easy warlord kill.
...
Depending on your choice you might want to reconsider the HQ for this detachment. You might have to make some other unit changes, but think about one of the "neutral" named characters. They can still use their aura buffs on units, even when not from the same detachment. For example: Illuminor Szeras could sit back with the Immortals or Warriors and pop his 36" gun at things, while improving their stats for the game.
1. Honestly, getting to the warlord requires killing arround 40 warriors first as he will be properly screened by those warriors. Besides that, he also benefits from the Invulnerable Save bubble the Cryptek gives (so in theory, he should have a 5++). Besides that, should an enemy kill the warriors and get to him shooting or even melee, it's just a warlord kill. I understand that it's a victory point, but even if I made the Destroyer Lord the warlord, he'd want to be in melee and get in even more dangerous situations. Are snipers a case to make me reconsider? Definetely not.
However, you do make a fair point about using neutral HQ's. Szeras for example is a fine choice, but he's a cryptek. He'd be replacing my cryptek not my lord, as having two crypteks buff the same models is a waste. Would it be better to make a cryptek/Szeras the warlord for my army instead of the Lord? Would he be a less easy to kill warlord? Is there any difference?
Now why would I pick a Dynasty Neutral HQ? All my infantry is from the same detachment, the Mephrit one. I would do that if I already have 2 HQ's in the Mephrit Battalion and I need a 3rd to buff them, but getting that 3rd is more beneficial from a different detachment. So if I needed Szeras (but together with the 2 HQ's I already have) I should replace the Cloaktek from the Spearhead detachment and that would be a nice choice, as he would be able to buff the Mephrit infantry. However, my battalion detachment requires 2 HQ's and I can't think of any other useful HQ for that specific list, since I'm not using many Immortals for MWBD, and the warriors need 1 Cryptek Aura, 1 Chronometron Aura and the Lord aura is a nice bonus. Can I replace my normal cryptek then, for Szeras? Well, he doesn't have a chronometron and he's a lot more expensive and I don't benefit from his non-dynasty buffing. If I were to replace my lord with Szeras, I would have two technomancer buffs (since I'd keep the first cryptek for the chronometron) and no "The Lord's Will". I'd pay a lot more and I'd only get 1 Augmentation per turn for a total of 2 or 3 augmentations (if my immortals are ever in-range). Would he help the "alpha strike deathstar" character my warriors have? Not really.
Anrakyr could, definetely replace my lord. Do I benefit from him being "No Dynasty"? Not really, exept if I kept the lord in the battalion detachment and replaced my Cloaktek from the Outrider with Anrakyr. Now, he also brings an extra useful bubble. "Lord of the Pyrrhian Legions" gives 1 extra attack to all 40 warriors. He also has MWBD, which is not bad to buff warriors, especially when it's 20 of them. My problem with that is the cost. As I already mentioned there's two cases I can include Anrakyr:
1) I replace my Lord with Anrakyr. But to do that, I have to somehow shave off 100pts, which is pretty darn hard in that list. In order to do it, I'd probably have to cut one detachment short and I'd lose 1 CP and the benefit of having more Dynasty buffs and stratagems. A possible list looks something like that
2) Or I keep the lord and add Anrakyr, removing the Spearhead Cryptek. That would mean the deathstar warriors are now 5 units (2 warriors and 3 HQ's) and I need my C'tan to roll d3 to get them all positioned, which is pretty hard to pull off reliably. However, they are considerably stronger as they are benefitting for a ton of buffs, namely: MWBD, The Lords Will, 5++, Improved RP, Fearless, Lord of the Phyrrian Legions. The entire gimmick is a lot more expensive however and so the rest of the list is considerably weaker and more reliant on making it work. I'm not going to bother making a list like that, because well, I can't rely on rolling d3 and I can't decide how to remove 170 points to make it work.
To sum up, I need 2 HQ's for my battalion. My battalion and, well, my entire list is built arround a deathstar of 40 warriors teleporting 12" away from enemies and rapidfiring, while being Mephrit. I think it would be a waste to get an overlord for my list, as I only have 1 unit of immortals and that's not even full strength and he would be stuck 6" from them doing nothing else the entire game. So I chose HQ's that benefit the main thing in my list. Based on that, I can't find anything else exept Lord + Cryptek for 4 auras that make them durable and deadly. They're kinda easy to kill (if you get past 40 warriors), but heck, they're such a small point investment and there's 3 DDAs, Wraiths and destroyer lords also seeking to receive attention/fire.
However, you did open me up to the possibility of Anrakyr as he reaaaaaaaally spices up the alpha strike potential. His 12" ability is super easy to pull with the Deceiver/Veil combo, he has a one-shot weapon that's pretty good for alpha striking and he makes the warriors 2A per model, which is considerable. He also has MWBD, instead of the Lord's Will which is still good. However, he costs a cloaktek and 1 immortal more (100 points) and removing that cryptek also ruins the entire spearhead detachment, leaving the DDA's in the Mephrit Battalion (instead of being Sautekh or w/e else I wanted) and strips me of 1 CP.
2. Novokh is the best for the Scarabs, their 4+ WS needs the rerolls if you happen to use them to fight. Nephrekh speed is nice, but the units you are using are already fast even with poor Advance rolls.
I don't plan to assault things with units of 3 Scarabs and even if I did, I'd probably use their suicide bomb stratagem if I wanted to assault something. Novokh is only going to benefit Wraiths/D.Lord's assault. That's really considerable and the Novokh Stratagem can really become ridiculous in certain situations, but having scarabs that move 16" each turn guaranted, means a lot of tactical flexibility when thinking about objectives and given they're such small/short models and only 3 in one unit means they can hide very well (out of LoS). Also, as I mentioned before Wraiths charging 18 + 2d6 means they can follow up on that sweet turn 1 panic 40 warriors are going to cause. It really depends on the game I think, but it'd be nice to have an all round list that I don't specifically tailor when I see my opponent. Novokh definetely has its merits, but I think it might be useful only versus a certain ammount of things?
Sorry for the huge response, I don't actually want to disagree with you, it's just my way of thinking about it and you helped a great deal. Thanks a lot for your response!
So now I need votes for 2 things thanks to you:
Anrakyr list or Lord list Novokh or Nephrekh Outrider
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/12 19:57:16
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/01/12 19:47:30
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
1. Lord as warlord is lacking invulnerable saves, once you are in the face of the enemy, they will be trying to tear him apart. Proper positioning will help with not getting shot (though if playing against imperium they will be using Sniper Scouts so not much can be done there) but they will use melee to take him out. I do understand the aura buff is the goal, but you might be giving up an easy warlord kill.
...
Depending on your choice you might want to reconsider the HQ for this detachment. You might have to make some other unit changes, but think about one of the "neutral" named characters. They can still use their aura buffs on units, even when not from the same detachment. For example: Illuminor Szeras could sit back with the Immortals or Warriors and pop his 36" gun at things, while improving their stats for the game.
1. Honestly, getting to the warlord requires killing arround 40 warriors first as he will be properly screened by those warriors. Besides that, he also benefits from the Invulnerable Save bubble the Cryptek gives (so in theory, he should have a 5++). Besides that, should an enemy kill the warriors and get to him shooting or even melee, it's just a warlord kill. I understand that it's a victory point, but even if I made the Destroyer Lord the warlord, he'd want to be in melee and get in even more dangerous situations. Are snipers a case to make me reconsider? Definetely not.
However, you do make a fair point about using neutral HQ's. Szeras for example is a fine choice, but he's a cryptek. He'd be replacing my cryptek not my lord, as having two crypteks buff the same models is a waste. Would it be better to make a cryptek/Szeras the warlord for my army instead of the Lord? Would he be a less easy to kill warlord? Is there any difference?
Now why would I pick a Dynasty Neutral HQ? All my infantry is from the same detachment, the Mephrit one. I would do that if I already have 2 HQ's in the Mephrit Battalion and I need a 3rd to buff them, but getting that 3rd is more beneficial from a different detachment. So if I needed Szeras (but together with the 2 HQ's I already have) I should replace the Cloaktek from the Spearhead detachment and that would be a nice choice, as he would be able to buff the Mephrit infantry. However, my battalion detachment requires 2 HQ's and I can't think of any other useful HQ for that specific list, since I'm not using many Immortals for MWBD, and the warriors need 1 Cryptek Aura, 1 Chronometron Aura and the Lord aura is a nice bonus. Can I replace my normal cryptek then, for Szeras? Well, he doesn't have a chronometron and he's a lot more expensive and I don't benefit from his non-dynasty buffing. If I were to replace my lord with Szeras, I would have two technomancer buffs (since I'd keep the first cryptek for the chronometron) and no "The Lord's Will". I'd pay a lot more and I'd only get 1 Augmentation per turn for a total of 2 or 3 augmentations (if my immortals are ever in-range). Would he help the "alpha strike deathstar" character my warriors have? Not really.
Anrakyr could, definetely replace my lord. Do I benefit from him being "No Dynasty"? Not really, exept if I kept the lord in the battalion detachment and replaced my Cloaktek from the Outrider with Anrakyr. Now, he also brings an extra useful bubble. "Lord of the Pyrrhian Legions" gives 1 extra attack to all 40 warriors. He also has MWBD, which is not bad to buff warriors, especially when it's 20 of them. My problem with that is the cost. As I already mentioned there's two cases I can include Anrakyr:
1) I replace my Lord with Anrakyr. But to do that, I have to somehow shave off 100pts, which is pretty darn hard in that list. In order to do it, I'd probably have to cut one detachment short and I'd lose 1 CP and the benefit of having more Dynasty buffs and stratagems. A possible list looks something like that
2) Or I keep the lord and add Anrakyr, removing the Spearhead Cryptek. That would mean the deathstar warriors are now 5 units (2 warriors and 3 HQ's) and I need my C'tan to roll d3 to get them all positioned, which is pretty hard to pull off reliably. However, they are considerably stronger as they are benefitting for a ton of buffs, namely: MWBD, The Lords Will, 5++, Improved RP, Fearless, Lord of the Phyrrian Legions. The entire gimmick is a lot more expensive however and so the rest of the list is considerably weaker and more reliant on making it work. I'm not going to bother making a list like that, because well, I can't rely on rolling d3 and I can't decide how to remove 170 points to make it work.
To sum up, I need 2 HQ's for my battalion. My battalion and, well, my entire list is built arround a deathstar of 40 warriors teleporting 12" away from enemies and rapidfiring, while being Mephrit. I think it would be a waste to get an overlord for my list, as I only have 1 unit of immortals and that's not even full strength and he would be stuck 6" from them doing nothing else the entire game. So I chose HQ's that benefit the main thing in my list. Based on that, I can't find anything else exept Lord + Cryptek for 4 auras that make them durable and deadly. They're kinda easy to kill (if you get past 40 warriors), but heck, they're such a small point investment and there's 3 DDAs, Wraiths and destroyer lords also seeking to receive attention/fire.
However, you did open me up to the possibility of Anrakyr as he reaaaaaaaally spices up the alpha strike potential. His 12" ability is super easy to pull with the Deceiver/Veil combo, he has a one-shot weapon that's pretty good for alpha striking and he makes the warriors 2A per model, which is considerable. He also has MWBD, instead of the Lord's Will which is still good. He's also more survivable as you pointed out, so my warlord doesn't die too easily. However, he costs a cloaktek and 1 immortal more (100 points) and removing that cryptek also ruins the entire spearhead detachment, leaving the DDA's in the Mephrit Battalion (instead of being Sautekh or w/e else I wanted) and strips me of 1 CP.
2. Novokh is the best for the Scarabs, their 4+ WS needs the rerolls if you happen to use them to fight. Nephrekh speed is nice, but the units you are using are already fast even with poor Advance rolls.
I don't plan to assault things with units of 3 Scarabs and even if I did, I'd probably use their suicide bomb stratagem if I wanted to assault something. Novokh is only going to benefit Wraiths/D.Lord's assault. That's really considerable and the Novokh Stratagem can really become ridiculous in certain situations, but having scarabs that move 16" each turn guaranted, means a lot of tactical flexibility when thinking about objectives and given they're such small/short models and only 3 in one unit means they can hide very well (out of LoS). Also, as I mentioned before Wraiths charging 18 + 2d6 means they can follow up on that sweet turn 1 panic 40 warriors are going to cause. It really depends on the game I think, but it'd be nice to have an all round list that I don't specifically tailor when I see my opponent. Novokh definetely has its merits, but I think it might be useful only versus a certain ammount of things?
Sorry for the huge response, I don't actually want to disagree with you, it's just my way of thinking about it and you helped a great deal. Thanks a lot for your response!
So now I need votes for 2 things thanks to you:
Anrakyr list or Lord list
Novokh or Nephrekh Outrider
It is always good to work things through in a polite manor to find a good common ground.
I was originally advocating to consider changing the Destroyer lord over to one of the name neutrals who will then sit and Buff/guard the units that do not get Deceiver moved. That will make for a stronger back field objective holder/defender and still let the other units in that Outrider do it's thing. And Illuminor Szeras is only one point more than the Destroyer lord, which you were already a couple points below 2k. The named characters do not have to be the warlord, so you still keep the fearless trait.
Armies like Blood Angles and Dark Eldar like to pop up in your deployment zone or just move so fast that once your initial opening volley is done, they will just stay out of reach for the rest of the game.
But, if all you play against are armies like Tau or Imp guard, you might never have a backfield getting full of enemies issue.
The last area I played in had backfield swarming armies that I might be mentally stuck in always trying to combat that issue...
2019/01/12 20:16:31
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It is always good to work things through in a polite manor to find a good common ground.
I was originally advocating to consider changing the Destroyer lord over to one of the name neutrals who will then sit and Buff/guard the units that do not get Deceiver moved. That will make for a stronger back field objective holder/defender and still let the other units in that Outrider do it's thing. And Illuminor Szeras is only one point more than the Destroyer lord, which you were already a couple points below 2k. The named characters do not have to be the warlord, so you still keep the fearless trait.
Armies like Blood Angles and Dark Eldar like to pop up in your deployment zone or just move so fast that once your initial opening volley is done, they will just stay out of reach for the rest of the game.
But, if all you play against are armies like Tau or Imp guard, you might never have a backfield getting full of enemies issue.
The last area I played in had backfield swarming armies that I might be mentally stuck in always trying to combat that issue...
Darnit, I forgot Anrakyr can't get Immortal Pride. You raise a legit point. What if I teleport and advance everything in my enemies deployment zone and then he just goes to mine and I'm stuck there moving 5" a turn? It looks like there's only one legit answer. I should scrap my backfield. Well, I don't want to not have DDAs. So, why not deploy them as close as possible to the warriors and the enemy as possible? They might get assaulted or melta'd you say? Well, yes, so I don't know. I guess it's heavily going to depend if I go first or second and what threats my enemy has and how much I can neuter them with my alpha. But, yeah, I guess this list does have some problems, regarding maneuvrability. I mean, Wraiths/D.Lord/HQ's/Warriors/C'tan are going to be mid to opponent so the only thing in my backline could be Scarabs/DDAs/Immortals. Now, I don't plan on camping the Mephrit Immortals. They're supposed to be pushing too, trying to kill stuff like drones or something. So it's just Scarabs/DDA and the scarabs should be safe/chasing objectives and I guess maybe take up a protective role for DDAs. They could help screen/block TPs close to the DDAs or even assault stuff to tie them. Honestly, I guess that's the biggest issue maybe with this list. This, and failing the alphastrike completely with the warriors. I'll have to play it versus more armies to see what's what, but I do appreciate the feedback.
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/01/12 20:24:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I won a 2k game against a mono-Khorne brigade list with my Anrakyr Szeras Praetorian list. It was trivially easy to beat his list, walk backwards slowly, keep Destroyers safe.
I won a 2k ITC game against Ravenwing/AM with my Zahndrekh Imotekh Overlord Double Battalion list going first. My opponent gave up at the end of his first turn after he killed a single unit in his turn.
I won a 2k ITC game against Catachan/Drop Troops/Triple BA Smash list.
2019/01/13 00:01:05
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
vict0988 wrote: I won a 2k game against a mono-Khorne brigade list with my Anrakyr Szeras Praetorian list. It was trivially easy to beat his list, walk backwards slowly, keep Destroyers safe.
I won a 2k ITC game against Ravenwing/AM with my Zahndrekh Imotekh Overlord Double Battalion list going first. My opponent gave up at the end of his first turn after he killed a single unit in his turn.
I won a 2k ITC game against Catachan/Drop Troops/Triple BA Smash list.
Great job!
2019/01/13 05:41:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I was thinking the other day about our continuous issue of RP just not working well, and pondered "what if we had something akin, but opposite, to the SM 'Combat Squad' ability?"
Namely, something like:
The Silver Horde: Before any models are deployed at the start of the game, a Necron Warriors or Necron Immortals squad may be joined with another similar unit (with the same wargear), forming one unit for the rest of the game. No unit may be joined together more than once.
The idea being that it would allow for multiple smaller units (for CP), but then join them together to actually withstand attacks. Plus, when we fought in larger point battles, we could get some really large forces (20 immortals) that wouldn't be automatically wiped out immediately. Sure, they'd still die, but there'd be a higher chance for RP to activate.
Yes, there would be some other benefits (bonuses applying to one larger unit), but you'd have less board control (loss of units etc).
Anyway, just a thought along the way of "how can we fix RP". Glaring holes, obvious mistakes?
2019/01/13 07:55:23
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
punisher357 wrote: That sounds interesting.....I think it would be a cool tactical mechanic, but I don't think it would really do much for helping with the RP problems.
It would be if we could play it as an interrupt.
Halfway through the shooting phase, my enemy has killed 10 out of my 20 warriors. I have a nearby unit of 15 fresh ones. He knows that the next salvo will only kill 5 or so, at which time I'll play "Eternal Silvertide" and join the remaining five to the nearby 15. Making it all futile as he can't kill another 20. So he shoots something else instead. The (presence of) said stratagem makes RP worthwhile suddenly.
