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I've only been able to use it once, and it tanked through 900 points of Orkish Deathstar pretty easy, only going down because for some goddamned reason Big Choppas have D2.

 p5freak wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Its strong in melee, but the rules for movement make it pretty immobile. It cant move over an armorium container. Unless you have a table with almost no terrain on it, you will have a hard time moving it around. Its defense is pathetic for a 650 pts. model.

Basically this sums it up.

But, it is T8 with 3+/5++, 32W Living Metal. (IIRC)

Which is slightly better than a knight.

But, at say +10% statline on a knight, we get +50-75% of it's cost, less effective ranged weapons in the most shooting-centric edition so far, and no access whatsoever to any of the buff factors available to IK.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing if the fething Volcano Lance couldn't nuke it in one turn without too much issue.

If it had Quantum Shielding it would be absolutely great, but it doesn't, so it's pretty bad metawise.

Damn good model, and good fun to use, but because it's balanced correctly in a game of broken combos, it gets shafted.

As with our entire codex pretty much

Imo the Seraptek should have something along the lines of an ability that reduces incoming damage by 1 or incurs a -1 to wound rolls made against it, and a stratagem that increases this to 2

Just to be able to compare to knight resilience

Or just properly balancing knights would also do it

You got that literally backwards.

Knights should be less indestructible, not make everything else more indestructible

Edit: Ninja edited

 p5freak wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Its strong in melee, but the rules for movement make it pretty immobile. It cant move over an armorium container. Unless you have a table with almost no terrain on it, you will have a hard time moving it around. Its defense is pathetic for a 650 pts. model.

There are no rules saying you cannot go on top of a container with a Vehicle is there? There are rules preventing you from going on top of ruins, but the rules for the containers found in CA2018 does not mention any model being unable to scale a container. So you have to subtract 3" for going up and 3" for going down, but it's not impassable.

And the core rules specifically say you can go up vertically to go over a terrain feature "No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery." (emphasis mine)

If your opponent doesn't think you should be able to do so, then you should at least be able to agree to set up terrain in such a way that a Seraptek Construct has plenty of ways to manoeuvre. I only think I moved over a piece of terrain like that once in all my games with the Construct, generally making battlefields where there was space for it and just moving around because I was unsure of whether it was legal or not, but I don't think there is any arguement for it being illegal outside of house rules.

Rumbling_Otter wrote:

A casual list will get a rude awakening with Average Rolls, and will walk it with Good Rolls

Whereas a Competitive list will absolutely gak all over a Seraptekh a good 65% of the time, unless they get unlucky (or you get lucky, whichever).

Have you played the seraptek much? I have yet to use it (even though i have the model). If we're truly looking at a 65% loss rate, i'm not so sure I want to take it.

It's nowhere near as bad as I initially though and it was one of our most competitive units previous to CA2018 and remains a strong unit as evidenced by it grabbing a top 10 spot at a GT. It's weak to Castellans and Farseers with Doom and any army that just has a ton of anti-vehicle.

L/W/W/L/L/W/L/W/L/L/W/W/W/L/W/L/W

9 wins and 8 losses, I forgot to DS 20 Flayed Ones in more than 5 of those games. I went up against some very beefy lists, pre-nerf Cultist spam, AM FW Flametanks with Castellan, the Loota bomb, Triptide Tau, but also went up against a couple of weaker armies like Renegades and Heretics with Alpha Legion Havocs and competitive SW and some mid tier armies like competitive Nids. I had wins against the stronger lists and losses against some of the more mid-tier lists as well. Several of the lists I used with one Seraptek Construct and some Wraiths and Immortals got cheaper post CA2018, one used two Seraptek Constructs and a Vault which got more expensive post CA2018, replacing the Vault with an Obelisk might work out but I haven't had the willpower to force myself to play one of those since my initial failures with it back when the codex came out.

35% win rate would be meta and skill dependent, but I very much doubt a list with 3xDDA and a Construct would get such a low win rate.

I played it once, I have the model.

My Tyranid opponent had a nidzilla list that had one of his super heavy lizards, barbed something.

My turn 1, going first, I fired those S8 weapons with MW, all shots on his Flyrant, inflicting a total of 3 damage. That was all the ranged DMG he put out. anecdotal but still.

He later killed his LoW in a single range of combat. All in all representative of his abilities.

The S8 weapons, while nice, are weak enough that you have to fire them both at the same targets safely kill it.

Put the flat 6 dmg in CC is great.

Yea, I'm 99% sure the Synaptic Obliterators + Transdimensional Projectors are better in every scenario.

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea, I'm 99% sure the Synaptic Obliterators + Transdimensional Projectors are better in every scenario.

Agreed. Also, the Trans Projectors encourage you closing to engage.

super heavy lizards,

Hahaha, love it. Damn those super heavy lizards (was probably a scythed or barbed hierodule )

 vict0988 wrote:

There are no rules saying you cannot go on top of a container with a Vehicle is there? There are rules preventing you from going on top of ruins, but the rules for the containers found in CA2018 does not mention any model being unable to scale a container. So you have to subtract 3" for going up and 3" for going down, but it's not impassable.

And the core rules specifically say you can go up vertically to go over a terrain feature "No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery." (emphasis mine)

Sure, you can move on top of a container. But if you want to move over it your model has to move up 3", move across 3", and move down 3". Thats 9" you have to subtract from your 16" movement, 7" remain. I dont know how long the virtual base of the monstrosity is, but i guess its more than 7". This means your 650 pts. model is stopped by a simple container, it cant move over it in one turn. All i have to do is hide my units behind terrain, or inside ruins, and you cant charge me, because you are unable to move, stopped by terrain.

With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

Honestly I would say Immortals are fine at their point cost compared to the Tactical Marine boost.

As a Marine player, though, I noticed it just cemented some units as overall still better and didn't exactly help the units that needed a boost the most outside Centurions.

punisher357 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

In short:

If you stand still with RF weapons you get the RF bonus even at long range (24“ inches 2 shots instead of 1 for example).

Units with the „terminator; biker“ keyword ALWAY get the RF bonus

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

Honestly I would say Immortals are fine at their point cost compared to the Tactical Marine boost.

As a Marine player, though, I noticed it just cemented some units as overall still better and didn't exactly help the units that needed a boost the most outside Centurions.

Exactly, the beta bolter rule is bad. I honestly don't think Tactical Marines are worse than Cultists at the moment and if they just nerfed the obscenely OP units in the game there would be room for 13 pt Marines. Things like Assault Marines needed a buff more than Tacticals did. Beta bolters isn't going to break the game, but Marine Bikes basically have no business in combat any longer. Why would you try to get into combat with a powersword on your Searge when you can just grab another storm bolter with 4 shots at range 24"? Why would you keep your bolt pistol on your Company Veterans when all their damage is going to come from combi-bolters or special weapons and when storm shields are incredibly cheap? Bolt pistol + power sword combo is ridiculously bad compared to Storm Shield + Storm Bolter, same price too, this is especially the case for Company Veterans on Bikes.

Same thing applies to Necrons to different degrees. Gauss TBs and Tesla TBs are IMO a very balanced choice that depends entirely on Dynasty and meta, Gauss Discipline would skew the situation too far in the direction of Gauss IMO, it would also make DDAs even more busted. Now if it applied only to Infantry, that would be an okay idea, but I'm not sure how much room there is to buff Gauss before they become part of the OP meta units. It also widens the gap between Tacticals and Assault Marines or in our case Flayed Ones and Warriors, not something you want to have happen 11 months before the next pts costs update, or maybe you do if you are sure that's how you want the game to function and you plan on buffing Assault Marines/FOs next CA and you want to balance in July based on what you learn about Bolter/Gauss Discipline in Feburary-July.

I also don't like how it can be misinterpreted to be 4 shots within 12" if you don't move or 16 shots if you don't move within 12" with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator. I'm not 100% on how to fix the wording, but having it explicit that it does not stack, rather than something that has to be understood from a rules reading standpoint based on the words used would be good. It might just tick me off if someone tried to play it that way against me, no need to give an edge to people who read with a heavy skew.

I also found a Necron battle report featuring a pretty cool list, I couldn't be bothered looking through the whole thing because it was kind of meant to teach you a bunch of basic stuff, so I just kind of skipped ahead to the ending and the Necrons won. I think the DW player was a bit surprised, perhabs the Necron player as well. Warhammer 40k - Necrons vs Deathwatch - ITC Battle Report. by Vanguard Tactics. It might be interesting if you are in the market of watching Necron bat reps.

 vict0988 wrote:
Why would you try to get into combat with a powersword on your Searge when you can just grab another storm bolter with 4 shots at range 24"?

Because its AP-3 and no cover in melee. Good luck shooting other models with a 3+ sv in cover with your SB.

 vict0988 wrote:

I also don't like how it can be misinterpreted to be 4 shots within 12" if you don't move or 16 shots if you don't move within 12" with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator.

How can it be be misinterpreted that way ? The wording is pretty clear.

On a complete change of topic, I would like to pose a question to you guys.

In 1750 points, what would you take to fill out a Battalion (and an HQ slot from another detachment) to suport 2x DDAs, a Repair Job Spyder, and a Pylon

First of all I wouldn't use a spider because it's almost half a DDA. I would try to get a third DDA. What pylon are you talking about ? Sentry or gauss ?

Guass, and I only took it to babysit because I dont have a third DDA. took me long enough to source my second...

There's also a Necron Vs Tau batrep by Miniwargaming which I thought I could view using the 7 day free trial (then noticing you had to pay for subscription to use the free trial). Does anyone know how the Necrons faired in that one?

Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Beat;
Yannari soup,
Blood angels,
Ultramarines,
Knight + IG soup.

Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Overall great weekend and happy I beat the top player even if I missed out if 1st place by 3 points.

 Odrankt wrote:
Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Beat;
Yannari soup,
Blood angels,
Ultramarines,
Knight + IG soup.

Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Overall great weekend and happy I beat the top player even if I missed out if 1st place by 3 points.

You mind sharing your list for us?

I always struggle with 1750point lists for necrons

It's great hearing about good tournament performances like that, congrats!

The list was;

1st have was vs Dark Eldar. Lost 20-16. Could of won 20-21 but I rolled 2 ones on 2 cards with D3 VPs. Nightbringer killed 4 Talos though.

2nd game was vs IG + Knight soup. Won that game 25-11 with a 5th round concede. Tomb blades killed everything they shot at. The guy kept shooting Volanco Lance's at my DDAs and kept doing 7 DMG. I told about QS but he didn't listen and got fustrated.

3rd game was blood angels. Won 38-15 (this was vs an ETC plsyer) it was the Relic and was worth 8VP. He sent Dante after my relic closktek with the relic. He survived on 1 wound. Fell back and scarahs ate Dante plus exploded for 3 MWs. He only had a Razorback left . So was basically a tabling.

Game 4 Was Ultramarines - won 24-4. He moved gulliman into the Nbringer range. I did ante meteor for 6 and got 4 MWs. I than shot him with gaze of death. 5 shots, 4 hits 4 wounds and he failed 3 save. Did 7 DMG. He came back on 4 wounds, I charged. Used enoptic strike to ignore invul on 1st attack. He failed the 6 and took 4 wounds. He than saved all my other attacks, killed the c'tan and he exploded to deal 3W.

Game 5 was vs Ynarri soup . (Etc player). He had a near perfect score all weekend and I robbed him of having 5 major victories. Each DDA put wave serptants to their last wound. Put 3 Gauss That from that 1 unit into each of the via split fire. All of them died. He had the Ynarri that teleports when something dies. Nbringer took it to it's last 2 wounds from gaze of death and tesls TBs electricuted her to death.

Overall great weekend and apperantly I'm being ask to represent Necrons for ETC Ireland .

Wauw, gotta say I didn't expect Aza'gorod or Gauss Tomb Blades to make it into a tourney-winning list.

I really gotta give Gauss tomb blades a go, but I'm just worried that they die as soon as they get into rapid-fire range the next round. Rather stay safe at 24" range with Tesla...

Odrankt wrote:Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Congrats !!

Odrankt wrote:
Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Thats why its fair to use 2 points fixed, instead of rolling a D3. Playing with cards is already random enough.

 p5freak wrote:

Odrankt wrote:Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Congrats !!

Odrankt wrote:
Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Thats why its fair to use 2 points fixed, instead of rolling a D3. Playing with cards is already random enough.

Thanks man

Yeah, using the cards can be a pain but all of my games were great and because it was definitely winnable I don't feel like I robbed. Just knowing I could have makes it feel like a draw imo

Hopefully I'll be at another tournament soon with this list again and get more data.

Tomb blades should be pretty resilient once you have upgrades. -1 to hit in shooting is brutal, and a 3+/5++ or two to tank hits for the ones that can only afford one or the other isn’t shoddy. Being charged sucks though.

So in May, we will be having the first ITC Tournament in China. I have a sort of idea of what I will be taking and I would like to get any advice or ideas on my list.



Other Units I currently have:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Tomb blades should be pretty resilient once you have upgrades. -1 to hit in shooting is brutal, and a 3+/5++ or two to tank hits for the ones that can only afford one or the other isn’t shoddy. Being charged sucks though.

In my games I usually lost 1 full unit by turn 4 but it would take about 1100pt of my opponents army to kill a 300 point unit. The same can be said for the DDAs as well. For 160pts each model at least killed something worth 200+ Points. I used to hate LoS ng my units. Even started the end of the game. But sometimes you got to suicide move your units into basic positions if it means you getting VPs to a victory. Also, being charged isn't that bad because they have Fly so even if charged can still move their 14" and shoot as normal.