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2019/03/07 01:21:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah I don't see the problem with that stratagem. It says the wraiths can shoot after advancing.. what's wrong with that?
I already explained what the problem is. Shooting restrictions are still in place, just because a stratagem says you can shoot after advancing doesn't mean you can ignore all other shooting rules. Or do you think you can target characters which are not the closest enemy unit with your wraith, or shoot your pistol 48" across the entire battlefield ?? You can't.
2019/03/07 02:35:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I think the only people who would have a problem with the adaptive subroutine strat allowing wraiths to shoot after advancing are going to be rules lawyers. Easy solution....don't play them.
2019/03/07 04:56:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah I don't see the problem with that stratagem. It says the wraiths can shoot after advancing.. what's wrong with that?
I already explained what the problem is. Shooting restrictions are still in place, just because a stratagem says you can shoot after advancing doesn't mean you can ignore all other shooting rules. Or do you think you can target characters which are not the closest enemy unit with your wraith, or shoot your pistol 48" across the entire battlefield ?? You can't.
If normal shooting restrictions stay in place (despite the CP to use the stratagem), then shouldn't normal charging restrictions also stay in place?
And if that was the case - what would be the purpose of the stratagem?
No, I think it's pretty obvious to your typical player that the stratagem allows things to happen that normally wouldn't be able to happen. Hence, it being a stratagem, and costing CP to use. That's the point of the stratagems, anyway: to make things happen that normally wouldn't be possible!
2019/03/07 06:29:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
torblind wrote: Yeah I don't see the problem with that stratagem. It says the wraiths can shoot after advancing.. what's wrong with that?
I already explained what the problem is. Shooting restrictions are still in place, just because a stratagem says you can shoot after advancing doesn't mean you can ignore all other shooting rules. Or do you think you can target characters which are not the closest enemy unit with your wraith, or shoot your pistol 48" across the entire battlefield ?? You can't.
So normal shooting restrictions = no shooting after advancing
Stratagem says now you can shoot after advancing
How on earth is that not plain as vanilla?
And hell yeah, if a stratagem said I could target characters or shoot 48" of course I'd play it that way. Stick to the question at hand mind you.
2019/03/07 10:03:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
If normal shooting restrictions stay in place (despite the CP to use the stratagem), then shouldn't normal charging restrictions also stay in place?
And if that was the case - what would be the purpose of the stratagem?
No, because the stratagem gives you permission to charge after advancing. If removes the restriction that you cant charge after advancing. Thats how the rules work.
No, I think it's pretty obvious to your typical player that the stratagem allows things to happen that normally wouldn't be able to happen. Hence, it being a stratagem, and costing CP to use. That's the point of the stratagems, anyway: to make things happen that normally wouldn't be possible!
Yes, it allows things to happen that normally wouldnt be able to happen (charge after advancing). But its doesnt let you ignore all the other rules of the shooting phase.
Yes, but you cant ignore all the other rules of the shooting phase. Thats not how the rules work. They tell you what you can do, and what you cant do. Special rules like stratagems can remove restrictions from the rules. In this case charge after advancing, but other rules are still in place, and must be followed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 10:10:54
2019/03/07 10:17:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
P5freak, your very difficult to talk with. It literally feels like your arguing with everyone just to troll us. If you have nothing constructive to say or any helpful information than there is no need to comment on this forum. You are literally bringing nothing to this tactics threat besides agro and stupid arguments.
If I'm being honest I can see where he's coming from.
It's incorrect, as the nature of this game is a once-and-done override system, which means that strat lets us advance, shoot and charge with our Canoptek stuff (read: wraiths, as thats all it's good for)
I see his point, which can be sumarised as "you can make a shooting attack, providing you have a weapon that meets the prerequisites to do so"
However, since the wraiths dont, he's arguing they cant.
As I said though, this is incorrect.
However, it did give me an idea. What's the concensus on Sautekh TBeam Wraiths?
fast, realsonable firepower, no real issue if they get caught in combat, and resilient enough to be a proper pain in your opponent's kneck.
I know, ever wraith not Novokh or Nephrekh is kind of a waste, but if you were stuck with a single sub-faction thanks to local tourney ruleings on paint jobs, would it be a stupid idea?
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
2019/03/07 11:03:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
For 12" Heavy D3 AP-3 D1 (with mortal wounds on a wound roll of 6). It's such a weird profile, I only ever saw one person use them and they did alright actually with a good roll.
I never played the previous editions but couldn't they outright remove models from play? As per the fluff they are used by Canoptek units to send garbage to an empty dimension. Wish they had cool rules like that rather than this lame chance for MWs
2019/03/07 12:43:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Yes, they used to ask for a Toughness test or be removd from play
it just gives a little more access to Mortal Wounds, and given that they arent expensive, it could be worthwhile if you're running Sautekh already
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
2019/03/07 12:43:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
If normal shooting restrictions stay in place (despite the CP to use the stratagem), then shouldn't normal charging restrictions also stay in place?
And if that was the case - what would be the purpose of the stratagem?
No, because the stratagem gives you permission to charge after advancing. If removes the restriction that you cant charge after advancing. Thats how the rules work.
No, I think it's pretty obvious to your typical player that the stratagem allows things to happen that normally wouldn't be able to happen. Hence, it being a stratagem, and costing CP to use. That's the point of the stratagems, anyway: to make things happen that normally wouldn't be possible!
Yes, it allows things to happen that normally wouldnt be able to happen (charge after advancing). But its doesnt let you ignore all the other rules of the shooting phase.
Yes, but you cant ignore all the other rules of the shooting phase. Thats not how the rules work. They tell you what you can do, and what you cant do. Special rules like stratagems can remove restrictions from the rules. In this case charge after advancing, but other rules are still in place, and must be followed.
Well for how long are you going to be a pretentious j*** and make people run around like headless chicken then?
some guy A: stratagem says I can shoot after advancing, so can I shoot?
you: NO, because its in the rulebook.
some guy B: but it literally says now I can shoot even if I charged
you: No, because its in the fulebook.
some guy C: I find this very strange, why would they say in the stratagem that I can shoot, if they didnt mean it?
yoy: dont know, rule book says you cant shoot.
Well?????
Say what is. You're being a total BCB all over this thread. That s*** does not belong here. Say something that makes sense.
Is it... rules on targeting says this and that, rules on sequence to follow in shooting phase are so and so... etc...
You're being zero helpful and you KNOW BETTER.
2019/03/07 12:57:42
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Ok, no more on this from me. If you think i am wrong, ask in YMDC. Some of you really need to read the rules. They are not as simple as you want them to be.
2019/03/07 13:01:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
p5freak wrote: Ok, no more on this from me. If you think i am wrong, ask in YMDC. Some of you really need to read the rules. They are not as simple as you want them to be.
We don't think you are wrong.
We think you're holding back what you know, and from that it looks like you're sitting back on a high horse and enjoy calling out people for being wrong and not knowing the rules. Which obviously angers them.
Just explain the case to them. Say something like, "Yes, technically it says you can shoot after advance, and by all means, this is obvious intent from GW, and you should play it like this, however there area number of problems related to the wording, etc, shooting... selecting targets... nominating weapons... etc. etc."
You know very well that by 100% RAWYMDC standards the game cant be played, so why on earth would you use those standards?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I don't even know the problems with that stratagem, but there is no denying intent by GW at this point, and knowing the chaos spawns that lurk in YMDC I have no problem imagining there being all kinds of problems with all kinds of rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IHateNids wrote: Yes, they used to ask for a Toughness test or be removd from play
it just gives a little more access to Mortal Wounds, and given that they arent expensive, it could be worthwhile if you're running Sautekh already
Think it was just that on 6s to wound it did one of those insta-kill-things, like if you had strength that doubled the toughness (which otherwise would be hard against higher toughnesses). Saw a miniwargaming episode way back where matt rolled 6 on overatch with his wraith, and than another 6 to instantly kill a charging dreadnought. Somewhat hilarious.
But with low S and high AP they're certainly a weird profile. Who has T3/3+ these days. eldar characters? I guess you could help mow down tactical marines, but you don't see those too often. MW on 6+ to wound in general is anecdotal at best.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/07 13:38:03
2019/03/07 17:28:14
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IHateNids wrote: Yes, they used to ask for a Toughness test or be removd from play
it just gives a little more access to Mortal Wounds, and given that they arent expensive, it could be worthwhile if you're running Sautekh already
I like the idea behind them, you could run them 3 plain and 3 with Tbeams for just 42 more points. The Str4 does limit their targeting efficiency, just wish Necrons had a way to get +1 to wound.
2019/03/08 01:45:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Yeah, trying to argue that you can only advance-and-shoot with assault weapons even with the stratagem is, I'll be honest, just stupid. There's no two ways around it.
You can do that anyways. You're trying to say the stratagem is "Pay 1 CP. Nothing happens." That's patently ridiculous, and if you tried to argue that I'd laugh, say "good joke mate" and continue rolling my shooting. At least that way you could save face by pretending you were joking.
Took 12 Novokh wraiths to a 1500 point game last night, was really quite satisfying. I did actually put particle casters on 6 of them, but only because my opponent confessed he'd gone 30 points over the limit, so 24 for the guns seemed fair.
He was playing Drukhari, who I'd not played before. But this dude was so sloooooow, in 2 and 1/2 hours I didn't get to finish my second battle round. Quite irritating, he edged me on victory points but I'd killed roughly 2 thirds of his army and could have tabled him given more time (which would have won me the game; for some reason he was adamant about playing a Maelstrom from the Core Rule book not CA2018)
The wraiths did well, and so did my Doom Scythe, taking 6 wounds off his Raider with one shot. The 2s to wound on all the Scythe's weapons was fun, and S6 weapons on the wraiths shredded his troops. The deployment also favoured my Immortals who could just reach their targets while staying out of rapid fire range. The wraiths wrapped his Raider against a terrain piece meaning he lost a whole unit of troops when I killed it. Unfortunately, my Destroyer Lord didn't get much action; I didn't have space to get him into combat besides the wraiths even though he made the charge. I gave him the Blood Scythe and Crimson Haze and managed to get 8 attacks on one of his Archons but annoyingly he made all of those 2++ saves; I'd assumed the save came from a relic but no, just part of the datasheet I'll remember next time. Deathmarks would be useful against them.
But yeah, quite annoying to play such a slow opponent.
2019/03/08 10:15:44
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
CKO wrote:Does the Cosmic Power stratagem replace the cosmic power permanently? If so we have an easy way to get the most out of the best powers.
Yes, its permanent. You can choose any power you like, even duplicates are possible.
dapperbandit wrote:Unfortunately, my Destroyer Lord didn't get much action; I didn't have space to get him into combat besides the wraiths even though he made the charge. I gave him the Blood Scythe and Crimson Haze and managed to get 8 attacks on one of his Archons but annoyingly he made all of those 2++ saves;
Use the entropic strike stratagem next time.
2019/03/08 11:07:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Would that work? I mean, I could certainly do an instant 2 damage but he would still keep the 2++, I had a look and it seems the 2++ last until you specifically fail when taking the invulnerable save. If you circumvent it with Entropic Strike he doesn't fail the invulnerable save
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 11:15:51
2019/03/08 12:13:11
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
So I was given a bunch of models by a buddy, including a seraptek construct and tesseract vault. Can necrons run a knight type list of superheavies to any degree of success? I’m not looking for bleeding edge competitiveness, but 3 big titans being supported by Spyders and Crypteks is kinda appealing.
2019/03/09 05:24:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
barontuman wrote: Do multiple hits from a Solar Staff stack. Ie, I get 5 hits, roll 3 4+, is the target unit -3 to hit? Has there been an faq or ymdc discussion?
Not that I have picked up on.
My first thought was that of course it doesn't stack, but if that's the case, they worded it really poorly
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k 
The Shadewatch - 3k 
Cadmus Outriders - 4k 
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k 
