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IanVanCheese wrote:
I don't think anyone is building their lists to beat Necrons (which is nice, it means they're less prepared for QS etc).

I think the buff to Oblits is worse news for us, seeing as how they're back to their old cost again> Also those Rotary cannons are tasty. My warrior blobs am cry..

Anyone who gets 'something', likely moves up, passing us in the pecking order, if they were unfortunate enough to be below us at first.

On the upside. Its not...that hard to kill a havoc or an obliterator for Necrons.

 iGuy91 wrote:
On the upside. Its not...that hard to kill a havoc or an obliterator for Necrons.

What are their stats?

Well, didn't they get some -1 (even -2) to hit auras or stratagems? That would really hurt our Tesla units.

elook wrote:
Well, didn't they get some -1 (even -2) to hit auras or stratagems? That would really hurt our Tesla units.

The Dark Apostle can make a single unit -1 to hit. The Fallen also have a -1 to hit stratagem if they're in cover, but Fallen are pretty niche.

The only precedence that this newer Chaos updated Codex sets is that they are willing to revisit older codices and update them.

Gives minor hope to a necron codex revamp.

Minor being the operative word there...

some small naieve(?) part of me wants to think they might mess with the timeline a little bit and move Sanctuary 101 up-to-date, so that the Sisters and Necrons get a duel re-release.

Or at the very least, the sisters tie in to that bit of fluff, even if it's just as a huge counter-push type of thing...

but, I am probably being stupid

IanVanCheese wrote:
I don't think anyone is building their lists to beat Necrons (which is nice, it means they're less prepared for QS etc).

I think the buff to Oblits is worse news for us, seeing as how they're back to their old cost again> Also those Rotary cannons are tasty. My warrior blobs am cry..

I very much doubt GW intentionally changed both unit size and point cost in shadowspear and then intentionally 2 weeks later decided to keep old. It's pretty much quaranteed FAQ to fix copy&paste error.

Of course if in Vigilus book 2 cost and unit size are old it might be more of point but...

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
I don't think anyone is building their lists to beat Necrons (which is nice, it means they're less prepared for QS etc).

I think the buff to Oblits is worse news for us, seeing as how they're back to their old cost again> Also those Rotary cannons are tasty. My warrior blobs am cry..

I very much doubt GW intentionally changed both unit size and point cost in shadowspear and then intentionally 2 weeks later decided to keep old. It's pretty much quaranteed FAQ to fix copy&paste error.

Of course if in Vigilus book 2 cost and unit size are old it might be more of point but...

Tabletop tactics had access to both books (new codex and vigilus) and they ran it as old cost. It's possible they missed it, or that GW misprinted in both books, but it's also possible that Oblits are cheap again. I wouldn't buy 9 just yet, but I think we should prepare for the cheap obliterator world just in case.

IanVanCheese wrote:

elook wrote:
Well, didn't they get some -1 (even -2) to hit auras or stratagems? That would really hurt our Tesla units.

The Dark Apostle can make a single unit -1 to hit. The Fallen also have a -1 to hit stratagem if they're in cover, but Fallen are pretty niche.

The DA can make them -1, mark then Nurgle and cast miasma for another -1, then you can play alpha legion for a third -1. Bare in mind the only hit mod that is not limited to a single squad is the alpha legion trait which is nothing new, and can be avoided by getting within 12" of the target.

Played a 1250 point game over the weekend, my Necrons vs Genestealer Cults.

Took a bit of a weird list but wanted to experiment with some freshly painted stuff:



First time I'd ever played Genestealer Cult (and to be honest, my opponent was still learning them so made some mistakes). We played Vital intelligence, the Eternal War mission from Chapter Approved where you have 5 objectives on the board and roll to decide which is activated at the start of each battle round.

I learnt a few things playing Genestealer Cults. First, it is utterly pointless to go first against them unless you have some way of pulling off a turn one charge or have lots of fast, long range shooting. The majority of his army simply wasn't there yet and what was could be easily hidden behind LoS blocking terrain. I was only able to get First Strike by redeploying some Immortals with the Veil of Darkness.

The second thing I learnt is that Deathmarks will utterly, utterly ruin the GSC's day. Without them I could have been in serious trouble. Using a strategem he was able to deploy a 10 man unit of Neophytes with flamers 3" away from my backlines. Without the deathmarks he would have had 10D6 automatic hits on my Immortals/Warlord which could have really screwed me over. Instead, the Deathmarks used their Ethereal Interception ability to drop down in response (and grab an objective in the process) then blast them off the table in one burst of out-of-sequence shooting. In the subsequent turn they then kicked out enough wounds and mortal wounds to kill his Patriarch. These guys were really decisive and get TinMan of the Match for me.

Lastly, the Psychic Power "Mental Onslaught" is absolutely broken. He did 8 successive mortal wounds to my Triarch Stalker with it by buffing the leadership on his Patriarch to 12 and getting consistently good rolls. Bearing in mind I already have Leadership 10, this would demolish stuff with bad leadership. My opponent explained this is his only reliable way to deal with big vehicles/knights. Seems like the target player should be able to win the rolloff with a 6 as their only hope to deal with this is that they deny the power/the power fails to manifest or kill the Psyker before he can attempt it... which is unlikely if the Psyker is in Ambush.

Overall the game was good. I think at lower point levels Necrons can be really tough for squishy factions with a lot of Strength/Toughness 3 to deal with. Because basically all my stuff kicked out more shots at higher strength and AP anything I shot at died basically. Meanwhile he was wounding my weakest units on 5s and 6s with much of his army. There was a bit where I killed 3 of his HQs in one round of combat with 6 Praetorians, putting 6 voidblade attacks into each target. Granted I'd used the +1 strength strategem to wound them on 2s but it felt like he was at a massive disadvantage most of the game.

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
I don't think anyone is building their lists to beat Necrons (which is nice, it means they're less prepared for QS etc).

I think the buff to Oblits is worse news for us, seeing as how they're back to their old cost again> Also those Rotary cannons are tasty. My warrior blobs am cry..

I very much doubt GW intentionally changed both unit size and point cost in shadowspear and then intentionally 2 weeks later decided to keep old. It's pretty much quaranteed FAQ to fix copy&paste error.

Of course if in Vigilus book 2 cost and unit size are old it might be more of point but...

Tabletop tactics had access to both books (new codex and vigilus) and they ran it as old cost. It's possible they missed it, or that GW misprinted in both books, but it's also possible that Oblits are cheap again. I wouldn't buy 9 just yet, but I think we should prepare for the cheap obliterator world just in case.

It's a clear typo. The data slate lists them at power level 6 for one with the option to run 1-3 while the points listing in the back has them set at units of 3 at 65pts each which is literally the same entry from the last edition. Expect that to be remedied in 2 weeks from Saturday.

dapperbandit wrote:
Played a 1250 point game over the weekend, my Necrons vs Genestealer Cults.

Took a bit of a weird list but wanted to experiment with some freshly painted stuff:

Spoiler:

Mephrit Dynasty Battallion

Overlord with Warscythe
Lord with Hyperphase Sword - Veil of Darkness

10 Tesla Immortals
10 Tesla Immortals
10 Warriors

8 Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters
8 Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters
10 Deathmarks
1 Triarch Stalker

First time I'd ever played Genestealer Cult (and to be honest, my opponent was still learning them so made some mistakes). We played Vital intelligence, the Eternal War mission from Chapter Approved where you have 5 objectives on the board and roll to decide which is activated at the start of each battle round.

I learnt a few things playing Genestealer Cults. First, it is utterly pointless to go first against them unless you have some way of pulling off a turn one charge or have lots of fast, long range shooting. The majority of his army simply wasn't there yet and what was could be easily hidden behind LoS blocking terrain. I was only able to get First Strike by redeploying some Immortals with the Veil of Darkness.

The second thing I learnt is that Deathmarks will utterly, utterly ruin the GSC's day. Without them I could have been in serious trouble. Using a strategem he was able to deploy a 10 man unit of Neophytes with flamers 3" away from my backlines. Without the deathmarks he would have had 10D6 automatic hits on my Immortals/Warlord which could have really screwed me over. Instead, the Deathmarks used their Ethereal Interception ability to drop down in response (and grab an objective in the process) then blast them off the table in one burst of out-of-sequence shooting. In the subsequent turn they then kicked out enough wounds and mortal wounds to kill his Patriarch. These guys were really decisive and get TinMan of the Match for me.

Lastly, the Psychic Power "Mental Onslaught" is absolutely broken. He did 8 successive mortal wounds to my Triarch Stalker with it by buffing the leadership on his Patriarch to 12 and getting consistently good rolls. Bearing in mind I already have Leadership 10, this would demolish stuff with bad leadership. My opponent explained this is his only reliable way to deal with big vehicles/knights. Seems like the target player should be able to win the rolloff with a 6 as their only hope to deal with this is that they deny the power/the power fails to manifest or kill the Psyker before he can attempt it... which is unlikely if the Psyker is in Ambush.

Overall the game was good. I think at lower point levels Necrons can be really tough for squishy factions with a lot of Strength/Toughness 3 to deal with. Because basically all my stuff kicked out more shots at higher strength and AP anything I shot at died basically. Meanwhile he was wounding my weakest units on 5s and 6s with much of his army. There was a bit where I killed 3 of his HQs in one round of combat with 6 Praetorians, putting 6 voidblade attacks into each target. Granted I'd used the +1 strength strategem to wound them on 2s but it felt like he was at a massive disadvantage most of the game.

Tin man of the match... Hehe

How did you like the praetorians?

The Praetorians were good!

The fastest things in the list, did some good work getting to objectives and then they tied up his rock grinders for much of the game. The pistols were perfect for softening up T3 enemies with poor saves and weight of dice with the Voidblades meant I was doing moderate damage in melee to his vehicles. It was overkill when they got into combat with any of his infantry. So yeah all told they did a great job.

Necrons actually do pretty well against GSC. But don’t underestimate their melee potential, one of their basic troop units can very easily wound your dudes on 2’s with base infantry and a stratagem, or throw a ton of Powerfists at you.

At range yeah you will outshoot him handily.

 Red Corsair wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
I don't think anyone is building their lists to beat Necrons (which is nice, it means they're less prepared for QS etc).

I think the buff to Oblits is worse news for us, seeing as how they're back to their old cost again> Also those Rotary cannons are tasty. My warrior blobs am cry..

I very much doubt GW intentionally changed both unit size and point cost in shadowspear and then intentionally 2 weeks later decided to keep old. It's pretty much quaranteed FAQ to fix copy&paste error.

Of course if in Vigilus book 2 cost and unit size are old it might be more of point but...

Tabletop tactics had access to both books (new codex and vigilus) and they ran it as old cost. It's possible they missed it, or that GW misprinted in both books, but it's also possible that Oblits are cheap again. I wouldn't buy 9 just yet, but I think we should prepare for the cheap obliterator world just in case.

It's a clear typo. The data slate lists them at power level 6 for one with the option to run 1-3 while the points listing in the back has them set at units of 3 at 65pts each which is literally the same entry from the last edition. Expect that to be remedied in 2 weeks from Saturday.

And why on earth GW would change point costs and month before first book even gets released change the price again. If that's not obvious misprint by forgetting to change values I don't know what is. Well albeit GW is not professional games company so guess there's chance...

Wasn't this a thing with Forgebane? The points in that did not reflect the actual Codex points

dapperbandit wrote:
Wasn't this a thing with Forgebane? The points in that did not reflect the actual Codex points

The rules too I think, didnt' the wraiths get upgraded in the codex shortly after?

Yes this was it, the Forgebane booklet still had Wraiths doing AP-1 D1

dapperbandit wrote:
Yes this was it, the Forgebane booklet still had Wraiths doing AP-1 D1

Yeah. I think the production time of a box and a codex is different (if i had to bet, i'll say that a box need at least 2 or 3 more months), thus a booklet in a box and a codex released simultaneously could be written at totally different times.

It could be the same with Shadowspear and the codex, or maybe not, but it must be rather difficult to be consistent with so many releases.
If they want to be consistent with all the products, they must lock everything very early. At that point a codex 2.0 is already 3 to 6 months obsolete. Maybe they chose to have discrepancies (like for Forgebane and the Necron Codex) ?

Pure speculation on my part of course.

So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

Had a decent game with teleporting Lychguard on Saturday versus Guilliman and Primaris. Zanhdrekh was easily MVP of the game.

Deceiver C'Tan + Obyron/Zahndrekh + Cryptek with Veil of Darkness + Monolith was the core of the plan. Got first turn, teleported C'tan to one side of the board and Zahndrekh and the Cryptek to the other. Zahndrekh summoned Obyron and the 10 Scytheguard, and then easy first-turn charged to kill a Captain and a 5-man Intercessor squad right off the bat, while the C'tan popped a Lieutenant on the other side. I had put slow units in the center though so I couldn't get one of my objectives in time. My only VPs then were First Blood and a single captured objective.

His turn 1, he managed to get 6 VPs, which ended up putting me behind the entire rest of the game.

My turn 2 I Veiled up the Cryptek and Zahndrekh, then used them to bounce the unharmed Lychguard right into Guilliman's face. (I had rolled hot on my saves for them earlier, only losing one model which RPed right back). I was ooooone wound away from killing Guilliman gosh darnit. But I ended up with no good spot to drop my Monolith, and his turn 2 he destroyed the Lychguard and Obyron altogether, even though Zahndrekh removed Guilliman's aura that turn (which he absolutely hated).

After that the game got pretty slow. Monolith did absolutely nothing except threaten the center of the board and keep his foot soldiers on his side, but his tank was able to cross fast enough to get into my deployment zone. Monolith at the end went forward when he mistakenly put Guilliman slightly ahead of the cover with only 3 wounds left after regenerating (can't remember what dropped him the first time, but it alas wasn't my scarab swarm that crept up the side of the board). But an entire volley from the Monolith right into him couldn't do a single wound. So ended up losing by 2-3 VP.

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

I dont think any necron character is worth 140 points of "protection". There are plenty other ways to do it.

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

On average he'll damage your character every other turn (against 3+ save), which means the character gets to heal back up with living metal before he's shot again.

torblind wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

On average he'll damage your character every other turn (against 3+ save), which means the character gets to heal back up with living metal before he's shot again.

A vindicare assassin can one shot kill an overlord. He hits and wounds infantry on 2+, regardless of toughness, and does d3 damage. His gun is AP-3, and no inv is allowed. When he inflicts damage he rolls a D6, on 3+ the target gets 1 MW, then roll another D6, on a 4+ its another MW, etc. You really need to read the rules. I have caught you twice already giving wrong advice.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

On average he'll damage your character every other turn (against 3+ save), which means the character gets to heal back up with living metal before he's shot again.

A vindicare assassin can one shot kill an overlord. He hits and wounds infantry on 2+, regardless of toughness, and does d3 damage. His gun is AP-3, and no inv is allowed. When he inflicts damage he rolls a D6, on 3+ the target gets 1 MW, then roll another D6, on a 4+ its another MW, etc. You really need to read the rules. I have caught you twice already giving wrong advice.

Oh ok then. Twice already? Shiit. Good thing you are watching over me, keeping tally of things and all.

And that is 1 Vindicare.
Say the opponent has 2 or even 3.

I think you need the Lychguard defence. Because I don't really see another way of reliable protection.

This raises a further problem for us them, because we're needing to field a 140 point unit (minimum) to defend against an 85 point character.

I guess this swings things back in favour of sword and board though, since their primary goal is to tank hits now, not do damage.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

On average he'll damage your character every other turn (against 3+ save), which means the character gets to heal back up with living metal before he's shot again.

A vindicare assassin can one shot kill an overlord. He hits and wounds infantry on 2+, regardless of toughness, and does d3 damage. His gun is AP-3, and no inv is allowed. When he inflicts damage he rolls a D6, on 3+ the target gets 1 MW, then roll another D6, on a 4+ its another MW, etc. You really need to read the rules. I have caught you twice already giving wrong advice.

A Vindicare has a slightly under 60% chance of hitting, wounding, and inflicting damage on a 3+ Infantry character.

With the Mortal Wounds, they have a 1.25% chance of killing an Overlord. Note that this math does NOT take into account the d6 damage on 6s to-wound, and also assumes that the d3 damage base is always a 2.
However, even with using 3 as base damage, that only pops the odds of one-rounding an Overlord to 6.46%.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, but safe to say that against one Vindicare, an Overlord is pretty safe for at least one turn.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
So I'm thinking Lychguard have become kinda essential to protect against Vindicare assassins.
They will absolutely wreck Necron characters otherwise.

On average he'll damage your character every other turn (against 3+ save), which means the character gets to heal back up with living metal before he's shot again.

A vindicare assassin can one shot kill an overlord. He hits and wounds infantry on 2+, regardless of toughness, and does d3 damage. His gun is AP-3, and no inv is allowed. When he inflicts damage he rolls a D6, on 3+ the target gets 1 MW, then roll another D6, on a 4+ its another MW, etc. You really need to read the rules. I have caught you twice already giving wrong advice.

A Vindicare has a slightly under 60% chance of hitting, wounding, and inflicting damage on a 3+ Infantry character.

With the Mortal Wounds, they have a 1.25% chance of killing an Overlord. Note that this math does NOT take into account the d6 damage on 6s to-wound, and also assumes that the d3 damage base is always a 2.
However, even with using 3 as base damage, that only pops the odds of one-rounding an Overlord to 6.46%.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, but safe to say that against one Vindicare, an Overlord is pretty safe for at least one turn.

I wasn't just thinking Overlords but regular Lords and Crypteks as well. Who die even easier.
Not that you can feasably give everyone a LG bodyguard. But if you feel Vindicares as a possibility then having some LG near your important characters seems like a good idea.