Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

IanVanCheese wrote:
This raises a further problem for us them, because we're needing to field a 140 point unit (minimum) to defend against an 85 point character.

I guess this swings things back in favour of sword and board though, since their primary goal is to tank hits now, not do damage.

As you take a MW by tanking damage, i would probably go the other way and take scytheguard. I'm not sold on the sword and board sadly because they "only" tank and are not even great at tanking without investing CP.

One of the unique feature of the Lychguard versus other faction bodyguards is the RP, so the bodyguard tends to come back if you don't focus fire them, and you probably have other priority targets.
But is an overlord such an important target that it needs 140 pts of protection ? If you take the lychguard you will probably want them in melee (i find them too expensive just to be ablative wounds). Do you want your Overlord close to melee ?

For me the answer is no. If i face Vindicare i guess i'll try to be out of line of sight ...

Lychguard feel more like an elite melee unit that just has the bodyguard ability tacked on... It doesn't really help much to have a unit that's more powerful/a greater investment to be taking hits for an HQ. Compare to say, Genestealer Cults, who can pass wounds off of a truly badass HQ model and onto a cheap piece of garbage they don't really care about losing.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Lychguard feel more like an elite melee unit that just has the bodyguard ability tacked on... It doesn't really help much to have a unit that's more powerful/a greater investment to be taking hits for an HQ. Compare to say, Genestealer Cults, who can pass wounds off of a truly badass HQ model and onto a cheap piece of garbage they don't really care about losing.

And they are not even that great in melee ... Unless you put a lot to make them work and even then you can totally get wiped by an Tau overwatch ... True story

I am sad because i own 20 of those.

The more optimal solution, if you need to keep your overlord safe is to just bring a CCB. Way cheaper than overlord and bodyguards.

Cryptek is screwed, but meh.

Shaelinith wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Lychguard feel more like an elite melee unit that just has the bodyguard ability tacked on... It doesn't really help much to have a unit that's more powerful/a greater investment to be taking hits for an HQ. Compare to say, Genestealer Cults, who can pass wounds off of a truly badass HQ model and onto a cheap piece of garbage they don't really care about losing.

And they are not even that great in melee ... Unless you put a lot to make them work and even then you can totally get wiped by an Tau overwatch ... True story

I am sad because i own 20 of those.

They're one of my favorite models in the line so I feel you there. I've certainly made my own efforts at getting lychguard to work, but they just aren't durable enough for their points to be a proper distraction and they require too much support to function as a primary aggressive force.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Lychguard feel more like an elite melee unit that just has the bodyguard ability tacked on... It doesn't really help much to have a unit that's more powerful/a greater investment to be taking hits for an HQ. Compare to say, Genestealer Cults, who can pass wounds off of a truly badass HQ model and onto a cheap piece of garbage they don't really care about losing.

And they are not even that great in melee ... Unless you put a lot to make them work and even then you can totally get wiped by an Tau overwatch ... True story

I am sad because i own 20 of those.

They're one of my favorite models in the line so I feel you there. I've certainly made my own efforts at getting lychguard to work, but they just aren't durable enough for their points to be a proper distraction and they require too much support to function as a primary aggressive force.

I feel like you need to go all out with them, just tons of them along with wraiths and other combat units. Go full killbots. Not super competitive, but enough to ruin someones day at your local gaming store.

Yeah, I've tried that, the amount of support you need to actually be that aggressive in CC in Necrons requires so many points in HQ's that it just isn't worth it anymore. That kind of thing is a lot more efficient with GSC or Chaos.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah, I've tried that, the amount of support you need to actually be that aggressive in CC in Necrons requires so many points in HQ's that it just isn't worth it anymore. That kind of thing is a lot more efficient with GSC or Chaos.

Yeah. I feel like 18 wraiths is a super valid CC strategy, but lychguard aren't the extra backup we need them to be. I'm interested to try a Canoptek list though. All out on scarabs and wraiths with some support units (sorry spyders, you still suck)

I feel like a couple units in the codex could stand for an invulnerable save added. Particularly the Monolith... It doesn't have quantum shielding or even a good armor save which you aren't gonna be buffing with cover anytime soon. It just feels way too vulnerable given most dedicated anti tank weapons are gonna blow past the armor save and just rack up the multiple damage rolls with no counter play beyond living metal... which seems really underwhelming for big vehicles.

I've been going through the codex for the past month or so now, can't help shake the feeling that it feels incomplete or uninspired. Like they ran out of ideas for the project and just sorta pushed it through and onto the next.

I know a lot of people say the following units are bad, but I'm willing to attempt this:

Using the C'Tan Deceiver to teleport himself plus screening Scarabs and a Monolith carrying 10 Shield Lychguard to flank the opponent up close. The Monolith will be in a Nihilakh detachment so will get re-roll hits of 1.

Drops off the Lychguard 3" closer to enemy units, which then move 5" to get a 4"/5" charge. Meanwhile C'Tan will be doing his business on the other flank whilst 2 DDAs (Nihilakh) take shots into Heavy units. Destroyers, Immortals and HQ units press up the board taking objectives. It sounds convincing and really want to give it a try.

dan2026 wrote:And that is 1 Vindicare.
Say the opponent has 2 or even 3.

I think you need the Lychguard defence. Because I don't really see another way of reliable protection.

CCB (with 2+ sv), Dlord with nanoscarab casket, Nihilakh overlord with timesplinter cloak for 5+ FNP. Imotekh gets D3 wounds back from living metal. A cloaktek can give himself, or another character, D3 wounds back. Even if your character dies you can revive him for 1 CP on a 4+.

elook wrote:
I know a lot of people say the following units are bad, but I'm willing to attempt this:

Using the C'Tan Deceiver to teleport himself plus screening Scarabs and a Monolith carrying 10 Shield Lychguard to flank the opponent up close. The Monolith will be in a Nihilakh detachment so will get re-roll hits of 1.

Drops off the Lychguard 3" closer to enemy units, which then move 5" to get a 4"/5" charge. Meanwhile C'Tan will be doing his business on the other flank whilst 2 DDAs (Nihilakh) take shots into Heavy units. Destroyers, Immortals and HQ units press up the board taking objectives. It sounds convincing and really want to give it a try.

Relying on Deceiver always has the problem of what to do if you go second, and what to do with his screening units.

Secondly a skilled enemy will take down the monolith in one turn, which means you won't get to emergency beam the lychguard because there is no deep striking turn one. Though in a more friendly game he might not.

torblind wrote:

Secondly a skilled enemy will take down the monolith in one turn, which means you won't get to emergency beam the lychguard because there is no deep striking turn one. Though in a more friendly game he might not.

Oh isn't it considered as disembark for the Monolith? Could have sworn it mentions disembark in the abilities. If not then that does really really suck. And pretty much stops that strategy right away

I remember Necrons had a pretty cool FW Necron army based around flayed ones. How (if at all) did they make the transition to 8th? I wouldn’t mind making a horrible zombie horde, no matter how bad it might be.

 Badablack wrote:
I remember Necrons had a pretty cool FW Necron army based around flayed ones. How (if at all) did they make the transition to 8th? I wouldn’t mind making a horrible zombie horde, no matter how bad it might be.

They didn't, not really. The Maynarkh Dynasty doesn't have any special rules in the same way other Dynasties do. They do have datasheets for a couple HQ's that are tagged <Maynarkh> and one of them has melee synergy but he's honestly much better with lychguard than flayed ones because his main deal is advance-and-charge.

elook wrote:

torblind wrote:

Secondly a skilled enemy will take down the monolith in one turn, which means you won't get to emergency beam the lychguard because there is no deep striking turn one. Though in a more friendly game he might not.

Oh isn't it considered as disembark for the Monolith? Could have sworn it mentions disembark in the abilities. If not then that does really really suck. And pretty much stops that strategy right away

It's a situation that desperately needs a FAQ, as they obviously went to some efforts to improve the situation. But GW has been quite consistent that anything that is not deployed on the table, or in a transport on the table, does not get to get in on turn 1, and there is nothing in the new wording that suggests that tomb world units are "on the table" when the battle starts.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I remember Necrons had a pretty cool FW Necron army based around flayed ones. How (if at all) did they make the transition to 8th? I wouldn’t mind making a horrible zombie horde, no matter how bad it might be.

They didn't, not really. The Maynarkh Dynasty doesn't have any special rules in the same way other Dynasties do. They do have datasheets for a couple HQ's that are tagged <Maynarkh> and one of them has melee synergy but he's honestly much better with lychguard than flayed ones because his main deal is advance-and-charge.

If he was below 150 points I'd definitely give him a go as I run combat crons. 200 is just far too much though

I actually think both of the Maynarkh characetrs + Anrakyr makes for a potent force multiplier in any given Novokh list

The outrider of Wraiths and stuff will be wave 1, and then the Lychguard / Flayers with Characters come in wave 2

I agree though, I havent yet found a way to make him work

*but*

I am on the line to be able to get another two units of lychguard, so I might be experimenting with that combination before long

torblind wrote:

elook wrote:

torblind wrote:

Secondly a skilled enemy will take down the monolith in one turn, which means you won't get to emergency beam the lychguard because there is no deep striking turn one. Though in a more friendly game he might not.

Oh isn't it considered as disembark for the Monolith? Could have sworn it mentions disembark in the abilities. If not then that does really really suck. And pretty much stops that strategy right away

It's a situation that desperately needs a FAQ, as they obviously went to some efforts to improve the situation. But GW has been quite consistent that anything that is not deployed on the table, or in a transport on the table, does not get to get in on turn 1, and there is nothing in the new wording that suggests that tomb world units are "on the table" when the battle starts.

Worse is the inability to deploy units from the Monolith the turn it arrives if you put it in Deep Strike.

Turn 3 is far too late for such an expensive unit to fulfil it's primary purpose - getting slow and expensive units into combat

dapperbandit wrote:

torblind wrote:

elook wrote:

torblind wrote:

Secondly a skilled enemy will take down the monolith in one turn, which means you won't get to emergency beam the lychguard because there is no deep striking turn one. Though in a more friendly game he might not.

Oh isn't it considered as disembark for the Monolith? Could have sworn it mentions disembark in the abilities. If not then that does really really suck. And pretty much stops that strategy right away

It's a situation that desperately needs a FAQ, as they obviously went to some efforts to improve the situation. But GW has been quite consistent that anything that is not deployed on the table, or in a transport on the table, does not get to get in on turn 1, and there is nothing in the new wording that suggests that tomb world units are "on the table" when the battle starts.

Worse is the inability to deploy units from the Monolith the turn it arrives if you put it in Deep Strike.

Turn 3 is far too late for such an expensive unit to fulfil it's primary purpose - getting slow and expensive units into combat

Definitely, by turn three it's usually pretty decided, so you've been missing out on some 300 points worth of your army while that went down, and it's a tall order for any slow melee unit to come in turn three to turn the battle around.

For a friendly game you almost have to take the Deceiver and hope the monolith lives if you go second

Could Always GI the mono into reserve and the unit it was going to pull back out to be used in some other way

Plus placing the Monolith on the table can be tricky: that 12" instead of the 9" SUA really hurts, especially for a large model, depending on terrain it can be really hard. That was my trouble in the game I played recently (Lychguard + Deceiver + Obyron + Zahndrekh + Cryptek w/ VoD). First turn charge absolutely decimated from the redeploy. Second turn VoD and charge, absolute decimated. But then my Monolith was stuck in a useless corner.

Hey, I offer ideas, not gospel :p

I still dont think the monolith's that bad

It's nowhere near what it used to be, and it is horrifically undergunned for it's points cost, but with even a minor bit of support it can be a very survivable pain in your opponant's ass

I feel Lychguard would benefit massively by being able to mix warscythes and sword/shields. It doesn't break the no kit, no rules policy and just about every other unit in the game with shields can already mix and match (Bullgryn/Deathwatch being the two big ones). Plus, a rank of five shields in front of a rank of five warscythes would look rad and add to the ancient army in space vibe.

RogueApiary wrote:
I feel Lychguard would benefit massively by being able to mix warscythes and sword/shields. It doesn't break the no kit, no rules policy and just about every other unit in the game with shields can already mix and match (Bullgryn/Deathwatch being the two big ones). Plus, a rank of five shields in front of a rank of five warscythes would look rad and add to the ancient army in space vibe.

This came up on reddit yesterday and I have to agree. Lychguard are the only unit in our army that I'd be happy to see mix weapons. It makes enough sense to be fluffy and would look great

At first I thought you guys were talking about a single model wielding both a dispersion shield and a warscythe but having both loadouts available in a squad makes more sense.

Wielding a sword and shield would look awesome though, quite Egyptian/Ancient World

I've been wanting mixed Warscythe and Sword/Shield Lychguard since i fell in love with the models in 5th ed when I started playing Necrons. I have no idea what the rationale for not allowing it could possibly be. The unit would REALLY benefit from it.

Facisminthe41m wrote:
What do you all think is the best use of ghost arks? I love the models but just bringing 1 to babysit a squad of 20 warriors seems like a point sink. Having 2 to babysit three squads of 20 warriors seems.... like they won't be hitting very hard either.

Also what's the deal with death marks?? They seem like they are wielding the least powerful weapon in our entire list.. I don't see how they are even that great at sniping characters with a strength 4 0 AP gun...

On the contrary, they hit really hard. Or rather, they will be hitting a lot.
Ghost arks have the same gun as a warrior. A ghost ark + 20 warriors will be firing 30 shots long, 60 shots short. In addition, those warriors will be hard to remove due to the ark providing RP buffs, and if the warrior squad takes too much damage you can hide them in the Ark and escape with its high mobility. Even if the warrior squad gets destroyed, you still have a surprisingly durable, quick vehicle that can fly around the board, harassing enemy units or stealing objectives.

If you are sitting still with the warriors and ark you are using them wrong. You are supposed to advance up the board, laying down continuous small arms fire. Ghost arks are not simply baby sitters, and they can deal surprising amounts of damage at short range.

In theory, deathmarks are supposed to get most of their damage from mortal wounds. In practice, it doesn't really work.
In the past, they had a marking ability (hence the name "DeathMARK") that would permit them to wound on 2+ against a single target. However, GW decided not to give them that in 8th ed, for reasons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I've been wanting mixed Warscythe and Sword/Shield Lychguard since i fell in love with the models in 5th ed when I started playing Necrons. I have no idea what the rationale for not allowing it could possibly be. The unit would REALLY benefit from it.

Because GW doesn't like necrons. Oh sure, imperials and every other flavor of xenos can mix and match, but Necrons? No, gotta make it all uniform.

Looks like GW would like our feedback again on April 15th. I think it would be great if we could get them to look at some of the changes to Necrons that have been discussed in this thread.

What would be the top three things you'd like to see changed to the army?

Facisminthe41m wrote:
Looks like GW would like our feedback again on April 15th. I think it would be great if we could get them to look at some of the changes to Necrons that have been discussed in this thread.

What would be the top three things you'd like to see changed to the army?

Feedback where/how?

1) A fix for resurrection protocols.
2) Make resurrection protocols work.
3) Change resurrection protocols.

Adding more in case those aren't enough :

4) Extend the range of Chronometron to 6" from 3"
5) Improve Toughness and Save of all non-flyer Necron vehicles by 1 (especially the monolith).
6) Change Amalgamated Targeting data to work with 2 or 3 Doom Scythes, much like a Fire Prism.
7) Increase the strength and attacks of the Destroyer Lord, or make his buff to destroyers be a re-roll