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Just as a side note, if you plan on spending a CP to reroll a 1, use a new die! I can't tell you how many times I've done and seen someone roll a 1, reroll the same die with a CP and get a 1 again. It's anecdotal of course but I firmly believe in rerolling with different dice every time.

Well if you believe that matters time to throw that obviously damaged dice to bin then

BTW quantum shield + warlord trait of 1 less damage. Is the damage reduction done after or before QS? Was thinking of 4++, that -1 damage warlord trait for command barge for rather tough vehicle. 4++, quantum shield making 4-6 damages good chance of bouncing and then 1 less damage(to minimum of 1) for 8w character with regeneration. Seems like fairly tough warlord to get rid off. This to support wraiths.

tneva82 wrote:
Well if you believe that matters time to throw that obviously damaged dice to bin then

BTW quantum shield + warlord trait of 1 less damage. Is the damage reduction done after or before QS? Was thinking of 4++, that -1 damage warlord trait for command barge for rather tough vehicle. 4++, quantum shield making 4-6 damages good chance of bouncing and then 1 less damage(to minimum of 1) for 8w character with regeneration. Seems like fairly tough warlord to get rid off. This to support wraiths.

Yeah there was a FAQ verdict to our favor on that one. You roll QS first, then of it fails you reduce by one.

torblind wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well if you believe that matters time to throw that obviously damaged dice to bin then

BTW quantum shield + warlord trait of 1 less damage. Is the damage reduction done after or before QS? Was thinking of 4++, that -1 damage warlord trait for command barge for rather tough vehicle. 4++, quantum shield making 4-6 damages good chance of bouncing and then 1 less damage(to minimum of 1) for 8w character with regeneration. Seems like fairly tough warlord to get rid off. This to support wraiths.

Yeah there was a FAQ verdict to our favor on that one. You roll QS first, then of it fails you reduce by one.

Q: I choose my Overlord on a Catacomb Command Barge to be
my Warlord, and give him the Enduring Will trait. He then gets
shot by a lascannon that hits, wounds, isn’t saved and causes
4 points of damage. How do I apply Quantum Shielding and
Enduring Will?
A: Resolve the Quantum Shielding ability first. If any
damage is suffered, the Enduring Will trait then applies.

This is from the the CA17 FAQs. Thats obviously the first place i would look when there is a necron rule question

torblind wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well if you believe that matters time to throw that obviously damaged dice to bin then

BTW quantum shield + warlord trait of 1 less damage. Is the damage reduction done after or before QS? Was thinking of 4++, that -1 damage warlord trait for command barge for rather tough vehicle. 4++, quantum shield making 4-6 damages good chance of bouncing and then 1 less damage(to minimum of 1) for 8w character with regeneration. Seems like fairly tough warlord to get rid off. This to support wraiths.

Yeah there was a FAQ verdict to our favor on that one. You roll QS first, then of it fails you reduce by one.

Yey. Not sure how competive that is but then again local meta isn't super competive and maybe I can use that to soak up firepower from DDA's. QS drops average damage from lascannon to 2.x or so and this drops it to <2 then. Plus 4++.

Albeit D2 weapons are of worry. And plasma shoulddn't even overcharge.

Damage output isn't all that big thouggh

I understand that triarch units don’t get the benefit of dynastic codes but you still have to choose one for them yes? They are just neph so that the destroyer lord can take the -1 to be hit warlord trait if he so desires.

I don’t understand how meph tomb blades with scopes can be overkill, what the hell is overkill? -4ap and ignores cover, that’s the only ignores cover in my army (besides the strat), how is the 12 points per unit not worth that? Space marines don’t get saves, even the new Primaris scouts. There’s a ton of space marines around here (shocker), what’s the point of being ap-3 if someone is going to have a good cover save? What’s the use of being able to ignore cover with Tesla if they still get a great armor save?

Tomb blades seem like hands down our best unit to me, built in -1 to be shot, great ap, ignores cover (mostly). Not even particularly expensive for how durable, fast and deadly they are.

The spyder was because I had just a few points left, thought his repair would be handy for the doomsday arcs, to keep them at a higher damage profile for an extra turn or so. Degrading BS doesn’t seem like fun on low volume high quality attacks. He can be dropped, I just had the model and points.

Just by not having a unit to buff takes a ccb from hero to zero? Not sure what else would be a good hq for a meph outrider then, I suppose a flying Cryptek wouldn’t be the worst, would have a hard time keeping up with the bikes though, the bikes would sure like a better reanimate roll though, especially if I’m being aggressive with them. You guys don’t value the sniper barge anymore? (I understand I can only have one warlord trait between the ccb and dlord)

Anni barge was originally just to fill out my heavy support detachment before I threw the spyder in. They are so cheap now, thought some dedicated anti infantry shooting would be nice, they also make good objective grabbers/ charge blockers, a nice disposable qs unit.

I don’t understand how stuffing the whole list into a sautek battalion helps me be more competitive, it’s not that many more command points than I already have and my units lose out on some serious buffage. Mainly the re roll 1’s to hit for my heavy detachment and the extra ap on the bikes. Plus whatever I do with my warlord.

If I trade the meph ccb for a canoptek cloak Cryptek, drop the destroyer lord, praetorians, stalkers and spyder. I would be able to afford 3 units of Tesla immortals and an overlord and Cryptek.

Doesn’t seem like a good trade to me. Yeah that’s a bunch of command points but I don’t have many units that need or can use so many. Being able to use phaerons will every turn on immortals sounds nice but arnt games usually decided by end of turn two?

I pick up a ton of anti horde but loose all my dedicated anti tank, all my melee interference/ go getters.

What about instead dropping the spyder, swapping the ccb for a Cryptek and adding a doom scythe instead? I feel like I have more powerful shooting in this list than I could get in a battalion. Then also my dlord can just plan on having the warlord trait.

I’d like to squeeze in a unit of destroyers in the meph detachment which would give something for the ccb to buff but they are so far into the glass cannon spectrum that they will have a hard time recovering their value a lot of the time (it seems). They’d just be using their extermination protocols any turn they could shoot anyway so what’s the point of +1 to hit when you have full rerolls? Just didn’t make sense in this list I think.

Thanks again for any criticism and suggestions. I am starting out in fairly competitive land, have a game lined up against bobby G but without the forge world dredds.

Was trying to come up with a semi competitive tac list though. I don’t know if I have it in me to “spam” 3 doomsday arcs right now though. My meta isn’t THAT competitive though I’m playing with the idea of trying to get my shiz together so I could do a tournament a month or something. Mostly to increase how many games I could get in a month than because I want to conquer the world.

Thanks again!!

Sorry about that don’t know why it didn’t post my whole post.

You are paying something that rarely comes into play. AP4 already basically wipes out cover from marines. Not many times you run into 2+ guys in cover. And anybody with 4+ save or worse doesn't care about that ignore cover. Or -4 either..

What do you mean ap4 wipes out cover? It wipes out their armor and then the have cover or they don’t. Some things are really great at being in cover too.

Don’t have to spend the whole game shooting at one thing either. Nuke some scouts turn one and then termies turn two why not.

I’m spending almost 300 points per squad of tomb blades. I’ll take them extra badass for 12 points please.

They get great value out of reanimating protocols, maneuverable, great firepower, why limit their effectiveness over 12 points? I need them to carry plenty of weight in this list.

The scopes and extra ap allow them to be a pretty great at just about anything. Well as much as you could want out of strength 5 shooting.

Cauthon wrote:

I don’t understand how meph tomb blades with scopes can be overkill, what the hell is overkill? -4ap and ignores cover, that’s the only ignores cover in my army (besides the strat), how is the 12 points per unit not worth that? Space marines don’t get saves, even the new Primaris scouts. There’s a ton of space marines around here (shocker), what’s the point of being ap-3 if someone is going to have a good cover save? What’s the use of being able to ignore cover with Tesla if they still get a great armor save?

Better armour saves are exponentially better. If you have a 2+ Sv you have a 1/6 chance of failing or in other words you can assume that for every 6 wounds you suffer you will fail 1 save, this means your unit effectively has 6 times as many wounds as whatever it says on the profile. With a 3+ you have a 2/6 chance of failing so your unit effectively has 3 times as many wounds as whatever it says on the profile. With a 5+ Sv you have a 4/6 chance of failing so your unit effectively has 1,5 times as many wounds as whatever it says on the profile.

Let's say you do 36 wounds to a unit with a 2+ Sv, that becomes 6 unsaved wounds, but if you have AP-1 it is instead 12 wounds, that means against 2+ Sv an AP-1 weapon is twice as effective as an AP- weapon. Going from AP-3 to AP-4 only increases your damage output by 25%, add on top of that the fact that it will do absolutely nothing much of the time (vehicles basically never get cover, especially against TBs) and you see that the Nebuloscopes at best make a small difference and often no difference at all on Gauss TBs. Let's take Tesla TBs instead, if your opponent has a 2+ Sv because of cover and you are not in RF then you 2x your firepower by having a Nebuloscope in that circumstance. Try not thinking of it in terms of it's this many pts, but instead how many naked TBs could I fit into my list if I didn't bring this upgrade, between having fewer (even if it's just 0,5 in a unit of 9) you get less staying power because you have fewer bodies on the table and you deal less damage on average because ignoring cover on an AP-2/-3 unit is often irrelevant and when it isn't it isn't even that good. It's a very small thing and not worth ripping your models apart over, there is just very little reason to take it.

I think you might have skipped the new rules for cover, you get a +1 to your Sv instead of an invulnerable save like you did previously.

Cauthon wrote:
What do you mean ap4 wipes out cover? It wipes out their armor and then the have cover or they don’t. Some things are really great at being in cover too.

Don’t have to spend the whole game shooting at one thing either. Nuke some scouts turn one and then termies turn two why not.

I’m spending almost 300 points per squad of tomb blades. I’ll take them extra badass for 12 points please.

They get great value out of reanimating protocols, maneuverable, great firepower, why limit their effectiveness over 12 points? I need them to carry plenty of weight in this list.

The scopes and extra ap allow them to be a pretty great at just about anything. Well as much as you could want out of strength 5 shooting.

4+ save in cover has 3+ save. -4=7+ save aka impossible to save. Ignore cover 100% useless. Even 3+ save in cover only gets 6+ save even without ignore cover. That 6+ save negate is fairly small benefit compared to what you pay.

Vs 4+ guys you get 0% boost in increase. Vs 3+ save you get tiny boost.

For added fun not much competive 3+ save guys in the game. Infantry you should be worried more are the 5+ and 6+ save ones.

I did miss that change to cover thank you. So a mephrit tomb blade with scopes is just effectively -5 ap vs something in cover? Interesting.

I still like the bikes with the extra ap but I can see how scopes on a Meph bike might be redundant. Unless many units are adding 2 or 3 to their cover save on top of a decent ish armor?

I wasn’t ever figuring on shooting vehicles with my tomb blades. They are what I have in the list for anti infantry.

In Codex Gauss Blaster have AP -2, with mephtit codes AP -3, ignore cover from scope, how can I get another one AP?

Dameningen wrote:
In Codex Gauss Blaster have AP -2, with mephtit codes AP -3, ignore cover from scope, how can I get another one AP?

You don't. Max is Ap-3. The scopes ignore cover, not add to AP.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Dameningen wrote:
In Codex Gauss Blaster have AP -2, with mephtit codes AP -3, ignore cover from scope, how can I get another one AP?

You don't. Max is Ap-3. The scopes ignore cover, not add to AP.

Effectively the same thing unless your opponent gets two points of Sv from cover.

 vict0988 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Dameningen wrote:
In Codex Gauss Blaster have AP -2, with mephtit codes AP -3, ignore cover from scope, how can I get another one AP?

You don't. Max is Ap-3. The scopes ignore cover, not add to AP.

Effectively the same thing unless your opponent gets two points of Sv from cover.

Its a mentality thing. Its a lot easier to misunderstand it if you think of it as "it gives me more AP to cancel out cover" instead of "it removes cover"
Some might forget the cover part all together.

Thanks a lot

I think Scopes are definately worth it, but that's because I very rarely run Mephrit these days...

although I am thinking this may change soon

 IHateNids wrote:
I think Scopes are definately worth it, but that's because I very rarely run Mephrit these days...

although I am thinking this may change soon

Its good for not having to use solar pulse to get rid of entrenched units. Other than that its pretty situational.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its good for not having to use solar pulse to get rid of entrenched units. Other than that its pretty situational.

I'll add that it depends of the loadout of your Tomb Blades, if you run Tesla (with Sautekh to try a Methodical Destruction), it can be a good investment. We're are not exactly swimming in CP usually, and going from 3+ to 2+ is good to have.

But i'm ok, it's situational and i will probably not put them on my Tomb Blades unless i have spare points.

Shaelinith wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its good for not having to use solar pulse to get rid of entrenched units. Other than that its pretty situational.

I'll add that it depends of the loadout of your Tomb Blades, if you run Tesla (with Sautekh to try a Methodical Destruction), it can be a good investment. We're are not exactly swimming in CP usually, and going from 3+ to 2+ is good to have.

But i'm ok, it's situational and i will probably not put them on my Tomb Blades unless i have spare points.

Scope doesn't add +1 to hit, just ignore cover.

Are DoomScythes worth it?


3 Doomscythes plus 3 DDAs are quite expensive points wise. Would have to drop 1 DDA if I want to take anything else except Immortals.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are DoomScythes worth it?


3 Doomscythes plus 3 DDAs are quite expensive points wise. Would have to drop 1 DDA if I want to take anything else except Immortals.

Triple doomscythe + triple DDA was the highest performing necron list at broadside bash (I think 11th place?). So I don't think they're terrible.

RogueApiary wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are DoomScythes worth it?


3 Doomscythes plus 3 DDAs are quite expensive points wise. Would have to drop 1 DDA if I want to take anything else except Immortals.

Triple doomscythe + triple DDA was the highest performing necron list at broadside bash (I think 11th place?). So I don't think they're terrible.

Would be awesome if they made that a heavy D6 instead

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are DoomScythes worth it?


3 Doomscythes plus 3 DDAs are quite expensive points wise. Would have to drop 1 DDA if I want to take anything else except Immortals.

They are much weaker than DDAs for sure. Whether they are worth it depends. They suck against Dark Reapers, Lootas and melee units with Fly, that's a decent chunk of the competitive meta that'll tear your Doomscythes apart. You may also face 4d chess players that are able to block your movement and kill your flyers in the movement phase. In ITC missions they can help secure secondaries.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its good for not having to use solar pulse to get rid of entrenched units. Other than that its pretty situational.

I'll add that it depends of the loadout of your Tomb Blades, if you run Tesla (with Sautekh to try a Methodical Destruction), it can be a good investment. We're are not exactly swimming in CP usually, and going from 3+ to 2+ is good to have.

But i'm ok, it's situational and i will probably not put them on my Tomb Blades unless i have spare points.

Scope doesn't add +1 to hit, just ignore cover.

Never said it add +1 to hit !?
But having a power armor save in cover or not is a huge difference.

Shaelinith wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its good for not having to use solar pulse to get rid of entrenched units. Other than that its pretty situational.

I'll add that it depends of the loadout of your Tomb Blades, if you run Tesla (with Sautekh to try a Methodical Destruction), it can be a good investment. We're are not exactly swimming in CP usually, and going from 3+ to 2+ is good to have.

But i'm ok, it's situational and i will probably not put them on my Tomb Blades unless i have spare points.

Scope doesn't add +1 to hit, just ignore cover.

Never said it add +1 to hit !?
But having a power armor save in cover or not is a huge difference.

How are you getting 3+ to 2+ then?

Can you intentionally fly off the board with a flyer?

Lets say the opponent has to kill a flyer in his round. Can you intentionally fly off the board in your turn even if you have enough space to not do it?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Can you intentionally fly off the board with a flyer?

Lets say the opponent has to kill a flyer in his round. Can you intentionally fly off the board in your turn even if you have enough space to not do it?

Unfortunately no. Once they fly off the board, they're considered gone for the battle, and destroyed for all intents and purposes. Used to be able to do that in older editions, but not anymore.

 iGuy91 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Can you intentionally fly off the board with a flyer?

Lets say the opponent has to kill a flyer in his round. Can you intentionally fly off the board in your turn even if you have enough space to not do it?

Unfortunately no. Once they fly off the board, they're considered gone for the battle, and destroyed for all intents and purposes. Used to be able to do that in older editions, but not anymore.

What hinders you to not pivot it and then, oh lord how dramatic, let it fly off?
You lose your flyer, but the opponent does not get a kill on it.

Because you have to move your models "ON" the board, and then provides exceptions to that rule

You are not allowed to willing use an exception.

It makes no sense to me either, but thats GW rulewriting for ya