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And just to kick us in the nuts further, they will be releasing some new rules regarding Space Marines I believe?

Yup, how crap.

Anyway, if anyone listens to what they say about Necrons on their show, would they be kind enough to share here.

I watched it. Was litereally just 3 guys talking about the lore almost directly from the codex for an hour. Nothing else

Really, that's it? Well that's pointless.

I think GW has often enough mentioned that this is how Necrons should be played in 8th and they think they did a good job.

I dont expect even small changes in the following FAQs/CAs.
Probably only point changes to stay in coherency with space Marines

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
I think GW has often enough mentioned that this is how Necrons should be played in 8th and they think they did a good job.

I dont expect even small changes in the following FAQs/CAs.
Probably only point changes to stay in coherency with space Marines

I... really hope you're joking

However, I don't *think* you are, and would therefore politely ask for direction to where they said this?

I'd like a similar source, if you don't mind.

Folks. Question.

Whats your best way to kill primaris marines? That 2 wounds bit tends to make killing 10 of them very hard to do efficiently Sans using destroyers.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Folks. Question.

Whats your best way to kill primaris marines? That 2 wounds bit tends to make killing 10 of them very hard to do efficiently Sans using destroyers.

Honestly, just tesla the hell out of them. 3+ save ain't all that. Flayers works too. They're just marine concentrate, they die to the same stuff.

Edit: Wraiths eat them in combat too.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Folks. Question.

Whats your best way to kill primaris marines? That 2 wounds bit tends to make killing 10 of them very hard to do efficiently Sans using destroyers.

Honestly, just tesla the hell out of them. 3+ save ain't all that. Flayers works too. They're just marine concentrate, they die to the same stuff.

Edit: Wraiths eat them in combat too.

Yeah, pretty much this. Gauss Immortals do it well too if you can get Rapid Fire
But Destroyers are your best option

Can anyone refer me to the page # on this thread in which the HQ options were discussed (the search doesn't always work without the right keyword)
Or if there hasn't been one, what our your thoughts on Command Barges vs Overlord vs Destroyer lords and the best (if any) Relics/WL traits to give them.
Note this assumes you already have a Cryptek or Crypteks

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In terms of efficiency, destroyers kill them good at range, and wraiths and scythguard kill them in CC.

Immortals are pretty good too, but I would think gauss is slightly more effective due to their armor pen. With the extra wounds simply trying to overwhelm their saves like with previous ed termies and standard marines might not be that effective.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In terms of efficiency, destroyers kill them good at range, and wraiths and scythguard kill them in CC.

Immortals are pretty good too, but I would think gauss is slightly more effective due to their armor pen. With the extra wounds simply trying to overwhelm their saves like with previous ed termies and standard marines might not be that effective.

Gauss is better for the AP, but the sheer number of extra shots you can bring down on them with Tesla means it probably evens out (especially with MWBD). But Tesla is better vs everything else so I'd always take it.

Yeah, Gauss really wants to be in RF to have a chance against Tesla, but even then they're just barely better.

Outside RF, Tesla is always better, even in cover (with MWBD, without they're on par)

So full scenario is 10 man hellblaster brick with the Azreal 4++ invuln, Banner for shooting when they die, full rerolls to hit, and reroll 1s to wound backed by the darkshroud for -1 to hit.

Its a pain to deal with in every game. Usually i use my guns to remove the -1 to hit bubble speeder first, but it tends to take a lot of effort.

Yeah pop the Darkshroud with DDA's/Destroyers. If they have a 4++ then I'd even more strongly recommend just spamming tesla at them or munching them with wraiths.

The Doomscythe strat would also be highly distressing for that castle if you pull it off.

That is a lot of points shoved into one unit to keep it safe. Make him regret it. Deploy defensively and on your turn have Imotek storm them and then use the strat on the 3 Doom Scythes (there is a reason you are seeing them in top lists) 1d6 mortal wounds + 3d3 mortal wounds will bring that squad down to not even worth keeping Asreal + banner Ancient + Dark shroud around.

They will cry unfair! And BS that you don't need line of sight but if they want to put all their tricks into one spot well...


Also like others have said just mass Tesla will get them just make sure to pop the no cover strat.

What I said was no direct quote...at least it wasnt meant that way.
I have no source for GW stating „Necrons are ok“ its more of a „reading between the lines“ thing. They had plenty of time to fix them. And I dont mean just point drops but also datasheet updates and/or rule changes via WhiteDwarf.
This „Index: Necron“ thing they did was just another example of they dont care about it at all OR probably think necrons are ok as they are.

 iGuy91 wrote:
So full scenario is 10 man hellblaster brick with the Azreal 4++ invuln, Banner for shooting when they die, full rerolls to hit, and reroll 1s to wound backed by the darkshroud for -1 to hit.

Its a pain to deal with in every game. Usually i use my guns to remove the -1 to hit bubble speeder first, but it tends to take a lot of effort.

Don't try to use Veil of Darkness to get in RF range

 vict0988 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
So full scenario is 10 man hellblaster brick with the Azreal 4++ invuln, Banner for shooting when they die, full rerolls to hit, and reroll 1s to wound backed by the darkshroud for -1 to hit.

Its a pain to deal with in every game. Usually i use my guns to remove the -1 to hit bubble speeder first, but it tends to take a lot of effort.

Don't try to use Veil of Darkness to get in RF range

I mean, with Gauss that's a bad idea, but with Tesla. MWBD and Mephrit Dynasty.........

For 10 Immortals that's what, ~28 hits average. ~18 Wounds and at 12" you get AP-1 to drop their armour to 4+ (which is where their invul is). That's ALMOST half the unit dead for average rolls (very rough math, mind you). Throw in some Mortal wounds first from Doom Scythes and other sources and a 10-man Immortal unit could be quite effective at cleaning up what's left.

-

Another advantage to the Doomscythe strat is that you choose order of rolling, so you can try to take out the Ancient first and stop anything else firing back.

 Galef wrote:
I mean, with Gauss that's a bad idea, but with Tesla. MWBD and Mephrit Dynasty.........

For 10 Immortals that's what, ~28 hits average. ~18 Wounds and at 12" you get AP-1 to drop their armour to 4+ (which is where their invul is). That's ALMOST half the unit dead for average rolls (very rough math, mind you). Throw in some Mortal wounds first from Doom Scythes and other sources and a 10-man Immortal unit could be quite effective at cleaning up what's left.

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It seems like a good idea, until you remember that if you're in RF range they can use Auspex Scan and kill 9 Immortals or 11 Warriors for 2 CP.

torblind wrote:
Yeah, Gauss really wants to be in RF to have a chance against Tesla, but even then they're just barely better.

Outside RF, Tesla is always better, even in cover (with MWBD, without they're on par)

I just realised that gauss blasters Vs tesla carbines is another good example of how poor the internal balance of this codex is. Blasters would literally have to be assault 2 weapons to actually be on par with carbines, yet they're for some reason the same price. And even then tesla is still better balanced because it actually synergises with something else in the codex, massively increasing the value of having an overlord


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hell, I'd even pay 18-19 ppm for assault 2 blaster immortals, since they'd be so much more versatile than they are currently.

But I'm also biased since I hate the way carbines look

While I agree that gauss immorts are too weak for the veil of darkness to RF range gambit... a block of 20 warriors backed by a melee CCB is *not*. Unloading 40 rapid fire shots + a 50/50 charge into the back of your opponent's formation/ command group is simply hilarious. Try it on your friends. You have too many friends, right?

 vict0988 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I mean, with Gauss that's a bad idea, but with Tesla. MWBD and Mephrit Dynasty.........

For 10 Immortals that's what, ~28 hits average. ~18 Wounds and at 12" you get AP-1 to drop their armour to 4+ (which is where their invul is). That's ALMOST half the unit dead for average rolls (very rough math, mind you). Throw in some Mortal wounds first from Doom Scythes and other sources and a 10-man Immortal unit could be quite effective at cleaning up what's left.

-

It seems like a good idea, until you remember that if you're in RF range they can use Auspex Scan and kill 9 Immortals or 11 Warriors for 2 CP.

I might be missing something from an FAQ I can't quite find, but how would they be able to use Auspex Scanner when it requires their target to have arrived from reserves. Veil of Darkness doesn't count as arriving from reserves, so that Strat shouldn't be valid. Invasion Beams and Eternity gate, sure, but not Veil from what I can see
But if I'm missing something, please point me to the right FAQ that says otherwise

EDIT: NVM, I found it. 40K Rulebook general questions: "Any rules that are trigger by or apply to units that are 'set up on the battlefield as reinforcements' are also trigger by or apply to the unit when it is set up on the battlefield"

Super lame. Still, you could instead MWBD 2 units of 10 Immortals (either with 2 Overlords or use the Strat) and pew-pew those Hellblasters from max 24" range

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 Galef wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I mean, with Gauss that's a bad idea, but with Tesla. MWBD and Mephrit Dynasty.........

For 10 Immortals that's what, ~28 hits average. ~18 Wounds and at 12" you get AP-1 to drop their armour to 4+ (which is where their invul is). That's ALMOST half the unit dead for average rolls (very rough math, mind you). Throw in some Mortal wounds first from Doom Scythes and other sources and a 10-man Immortal unit could be quite effective at cleaning up what's left.

-

It seems like a good idea, until you remember that if you're in RF range they can use Auspex Scan and kill 9 Immortals or 11 Warriors for 2 CP.

I might be missing something from an FAQ I can't quite find, but how would they be able to use Auspex Scanner when it requires their target to have arrived from reserves. Veil of Darkness doesn't count as arriving from reserves, so that Strat shouldn't be valid. Invasion Beams and Eternity gate, sure, but not Veil from what I can see
But if I'm missing something, please point me to the right FAQ that says otherwise

EDIT: NVM, I found it. 40K Rulebook general questions: "Any rules that are trigger by or apply to units that are 'set up on the battlefield as reinforcements' are also trigger by or apply to the unit when it is set up on the battlefield"

Super lame. Still, you could instead MWBD 2 units of 10 Immortals (either with 1 Overlords or use the Strat) and pew-pew those Hellblasters from max 24" range

-

Hence the "Play Tesla Immortals" rule of this tactica it's almost always better and much more reliable

I personally swear by my Gauss breacher team, but thats just me. I play in a strange way not many will agree with regardless

They've netted me Warlord, Linebreaker, and First Strike on a regular basis, and less often than that they're able to clear an annoying unit of something that would be a pain, wether it be a unit of rangers/reapers in cover or just that skeleton squad of scouts that *were* holding the objective.

As long as you acknowledge you wiull lose them, and the accompanying Overlord can MWBD himself and just go ham with the Voidscythe in the backfield as well. It's a fun little distraction if nothing else

How are you getting Tesla being more efficient than gauss against multi-wound MEQ/TEQ at close range? I'm getting higher numbers with gauss.
Then again, there's no MWBD option in the Mathhammer site, but is it really fair to compare them with buffs involved? What if you can't buff?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How are you getting Tesla being more efficient than gauss against multi-wound MEQ/TEQ at close range? I'm getting higher numbers with gauss.
Then again, there's no MWBD option in the Mathhammer site, but is it really fair to compare them with buffs involved? What if you can't buff?

The thing that makes tesla so good is the fact that it's one of few things in the entire codex that has a meaningful synergy with something else, namely MWBD, and in a competitive context there will always be an overlord to buff them. Since taking an HQ is mandatory for any battleforged list, the immortals actually add points efficiency to the overlord, who otherwise isn't very efficient at all, further enforcing the fact that there will be an overlord to buff the timmortals

And in any situation where the overlord isn't available anymore, the immortals are almost certainly expired already

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How are you getting Tesla being more efficient than gauss against multi-wound MEQ/TEQ at close range? I'm getting higher numbers with gauss.
Then again, there's no MWBD option in the Mathhammer site, but is it really fair to compare them with buffs involved? What if you can't buff?

http://www.dice-hammer.com has this, just change model count and weapon stats, click the tesla checkbox on the weapon and +1 for the unit and you can pick out the Sv 3+ / T4 cell above for damage output. You can also toggle "in cover" up in the top bar.

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How are you getting Tesla being more efficient than gauss against multi-wound MEQ/TEQ at close range? I'm getting higher numbers with gauss.
Then again, there's no MWBD option in the Mathhammer site, but is it really fair to compare them with buffs involved? What if you can't buff?

http://www.dice-hammer.com has this, just change model count and weapon stats, click the tesla checkbox on the weapon and +1 for the unit and you can pick out the Sv 3+ / T4 cell above for damage output. You can also toggle "in cover" up in the top bar.

I'm still getting higher numbers with Gauss. 5.56 with Gauss against T4 2+ save and 7.41 against T4 3+ save as opposed to 3.33 against T4 2+ save and 6.67 against T4 3+ save on tesla. Both have MWBD.
I compared the results with Mathhammer and it seems to check out.

Yeah for 2+, or in cover, Gauss is better in rapid fire range , by a small margin.