Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Personally I'd prefer having the old WBB rule over the current RP. The current iteration of RP cannot be balanced as it is, it's too strong in and of itself, and its weakness is too dramatic. Which is why it's disgusting in small games, and useless in large games.

Letting units that have been completely wiped roll for RP, could possibly be balanced if done properly, but it's not fun to play against. Every person I play with pretty much hates the feel of Necrons, because it's like you're not making any progress when almost entire units come back, and people disliking a faction in this community demonstrably results in that faction being nerfed into the earth's very core. So whilst fluffy and cool, I think it'd be detrimental in the long run.

Letting wiped units get RP could be a nice use for a resurrection orb. Fluffy too.

Or just give us a 2CP strategem to let us do it.

And for Emperor's sake, let those 3" auras be 6" like every other damn faction in the game.

Oh, and yes, Immortals should definitely be 2W.

Necrons are pretty weak now, we do need some buffs other than points reductions.

Eh, I prefer not locking all of the cool rules behind stratagems. I prefer my idea. Its not as if you are getting it for "free", as there is that important condition of needing to have a squad of the same type near by, which means you have to double up everything to get the most out of it. Which can be expensive.

Making rez orb a 1 use rp roll for a wiped out unit keeps its one use as is while making it usefull and solving the main problem with rp without making it dependant on a startagem

I would honestly just ,make it an aura of rerolls constantly

its expensive enough that that's not a terrible idea

v0iddrgn wrote:
Maybe a pseudo Silvertide will be a good solution going forward. Hordes are already a thing and Mephrit would be devastating at the close range that the SM like to operate in.

Dunno. Ultramarines for example prefer to operate >18" <=24" range. They can shoot 2 bolter shots per turn and move around at will while enemy will not get to rapid fire range as easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zacharia wrote:
Making rez orb a 1 use rp roll for a wiped out unit keeps its one use as is while making it usefull and solving the main problem with rp without making it dependant on a startagem

Also scale horribly resulting in what we have now, necron good at small points, bad at 2k+.

Yeah but the rerolls don't solve the main issue Necrons have, which is getting RP turned off before we get to make use of it. That was its role before the 5th edition codex came out, it turned on WBB rolls even against wounds that turned it off normally.

Well, in the ETC 2018 lists flyers are a big thing.
It appears that Necron lists with 3 Doomsday Arks, 3 Doom Scythes, and what not are the most successful these days.
Please check out this list:

3rd Place
Coulson Knowles – Midnight Sun GT

​

== Outrider Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 51PL, 910pts] 1 CP

HQ: Cryptek (70), Staff of Light (10), Canoptek Cloak (5), RELIC: Veil of Darkness [5PL] 85pts

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 3x Shieldvanes (9) [14 PL] [261 pts]

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 4x Shieldvanes (12) [14 PL] [264 pts]

FA: 6 Destroyers (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120), [15 PL] [300 pts]

== Spearhead Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [40 PL, 640 pts] 1 CP
HQ: Imotekh the Stormlord, WARLORD (160) [10 PL] [160 pts] 1 CP

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

== Air Wing Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 33 PL, 450pts] 1 CP
FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

Thoughts?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in the ETC 2018 lists flyers are a big thing.
It appears that Necron lists with 3 Doomsday Arks, 3 Doom Scythes, and what not are the most successful these days.
Please check out this list:

3rd Place
Coulson Knowles – Midnight Sun GT

​

== Outrider Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 51PL, 910pts] 1 CP

HQ: Cryptek (70), Staff of Light (10), Canoptek Cloak (5), RELIC: Veil of Darkness [5PL] 85pts

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 3x Shieldvanes (9) [14 PL] [261 pts]

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 4x Shieldvanes (12) [14 PL] [264 pts]

FA: 6 Destroyers (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120), [15 PL] [300 pts]

== Spearhead Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [40 PL, 640 pts] 1 CP
HQ: Imotekh the Stormlord, WARLORD (160) [10 PL] [160 pts] 1 CP

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

== Air Wing Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 33 PL, 450pts] 1 CP
FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

Thoughts?

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

That little CP would make me incredibly nervous.

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Boo

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Boo

What? I thought the exact same list topped an event a month or so back and multiple posters have made their preference of FA over Troops heard. Imotekh and Strategists helps mitigate CP troubles and apparently some people have the self-control to ration 7-11 cp instead of 9-13 or 13-19. I played with a few friends over the weekend and brought my 9 cp fearless list, I run out t4 at the latest and that is with strict rationing Destroyers are great, best kn groups of 6, TBs are awesome with tesla or gauss depending on meta and your list, shield vanes are probably the best upgrade for them and only taking it for some m2mbers of the units makes the unit a tiny bit more pts effecient. Doom6 is amazing, cloaktek is the only option in a 3xdda no bat list. Imotekh is good enough that his double mwbd is just icing on a stormy, durable and hard hitting cake.

I don't think that list is going to make it out of round 1 with the new Marines coming. The volume of shots at AP -2 is going to turn the D-Day Arks and D-scythe into dust easy.

TOMB Blades with smart positioning could make it to turn 5 but I am seeing a lot of table wipes in our future for now.

Necrons are basically triple DDA and Scythe and everything else is flavor as desired.

New Marines are definitely going to be Tier 1.

Short sighted rhetoric.

I know I am in the minority here, but I see dcythes as efficient only against lists I likely would have beaten anyway. Against mid to top tier, they drop 1 scythe turn 1, and I suddenly wish I'd spent that 450 somewhere more useful. After all, everyone in ITC already plans for the 5 eldar flyer list, and eldar have far better/more survivable flyers than necrons.

However, a 2 battalion/3 dda setup offers board control, significant dakka at s5 and s8/s10. Engineers is a lock, solid lead downrange, and good board presence/survivability.

I am simply not certain elite/low model count is the way to go with 'crons. My various two battalion + conceptsnhave far outperformed the doom6 vs tbe lists I would be concerned about.

The downside is this; you can't fit six destroyers into a two batallion concept that uses useful unit sizes for troops. I get that this is a dealbreaker for many, but I put this to you... imho, taken in one unit of 6, destroyers are a trap unit. They are too vulnerable at 300 points, and too great a loss after 1 turn of shooting from a mid to top tier army.

I agree that Necrons are too squishy to be played like an Elite-style army. I think we are in a bad position to be dominant bit that doesn't mean we can't win. Not to put anyone off but, group think won't get us anywhere either.

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

tneva82 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?

 vict0988 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?

I find that in most circumstances, Doom Scythes seem to more reliably produce more mortal wounds than even C’Tan Powers. They are also terrific distractions.

Well, looks like Marines all received improved gauss weaponry in their new codex.

At least Cawl hasn't figured out a way to make moarhuins ressurect themselves... yet.

 vict0988 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.

Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?

If you are playing Doom Scythes strictly for the strat, you are wasting 450 points. When you consider that you first have to have three DS survive long enough to use it, then actually have a target that it makes sense to use it against (many targets it's actually better to use the Death Rays), and THEN not tank the roll for the strat, you are not getting value out of them in most games.

Now what they can do for you otherwise? The threat of the strat is usually far more effective than the strat itself. Often you will force an opponent to deploy in a less than optimal set up just so they can minimize the potential damage you can do. In addition, it will put their focus on killing one of the Doomscythe's turn one at all costs. This means it takes the heat off of your DDAs and multi wound units like Destroyers and Wraiths.

On top of the mind games, they have more tangible benefits as well. They make scoring recon the first turn or two much easier without over extending some of your other units. While the death Ray has the same inconsistency issues as the Doomsday Cannon, it can still do work against the right targets and the Tesla destructors are flexible enough that you can use them for chip damage against the same targets that the Death Rays are targeting, or use them to clear off a basic troop unit sitting on an objective. Also, even though flyers took a nerf now that models can move through their bases, they still have to end that move more than an inch away, and this can be used to protect units from first turn charges as well as protecting deep striking units later in the game if planned ahead well.

They are not a super unit. They are not on the same level as smash captains, but they can win games if used intelligently.

Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.

 vict0988 wrote:

elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.

Right, so when using Doom Scythes, the range (including the strat) is measured from the base, and the line of sight is done from the model?

elook wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.

Right, so when using Doom Scythes, the range (including the strat) is measured from the base, and the line of sight is done from the model?

Correct

Line of sight is from any point of the model. This includes the stand and the base.

People keep saying SM will be tier 1, but I haven't seen a truly scary list posted yet. I keep reading about all sorts of combos, but I haven't seen a full list that looks poised to dominate the meta.

They got a ton of buffs, but I believe they needed a ton of help just to be brought up to speed with most of the other factions.

I'm going to a GT next month, and I'm looking forward to playing with my DDAs, Tesseract Arks, Doom Scythes, and Destroyers. I'm assuming Chaos Knights and Space Marines will be there in abundance, and I'm expecting to have a great time. I imagine the SM players will be trying a variety of strategies. I know I'm hoping to see Drop Pod armies, Repulsors + Guilliman, and Dreadnought Spam.

If someone has a link to a competitive SM list, I'd love to see it.

Marshal_Gus wrote:
People keep saying SM will be tier 1, but I haven't seen a truly scary list posted yet. I keep reading about all sorts of combos, but I haven't seen a full list that looks poised to dominate the meta.

They got a ton of buffs, but I believe they needed a ton of help just to be brought up to speed with most of the other factions.

I'm going to a GT next month, and I'm looking forward to playing with my DDAs, Tesseract Arks, Doom Scythes, and Destroyers. I'm assuming Chaos Knights and Space Marines will be there in abundance, and I'm expecting to have a great time. I imagine the SM players will be trying a variety of strategies. I know I'm hoping to see Drop Pod armies, Repulsors + Guilliman, and Dreadnought Spam.

If someone has a link to a competitive SM list, I'd love to see it.

Aye, pure SM needed the buff and soup doesn’t really benefit from these buffs.

I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.