Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**Kahi the Uncertain**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.

I mean, we do have the monolith, which I think is a great sculpt, albeit a bit aged. The big problem is that it's unplayably horrific

**CthuluIsSpy**

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.

I mean, we do have the monolith, which I think is a great sculpt, albeit a bit aged. The big problem is that it's unplayably horrific

Yeah, we have that, but that's more of a support vehicle. I'm talking about a proper medium sized battle tank, like our version of a predator.
The Doomsday doesn't count; its T6 and is more like an artillery piece, albeit without indirect fire.
The monolith isn't great. Dropping from 381 to 320 wasn't enough, it needs to be 250 and allow you to deploy units on arrival.

**v0iddrgn**

Our Arks being T6 Sv4+ really irks me. Before 8th we actually had tough vehicles now every auto cannon equivalent is a death knell for our QS vehicles.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.

**vict0988**

Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.

**tneva82**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.

I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.

**CthuluIsSpy**

vict0988 wrote:
Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.

You're lucky then. I have horrrible luck with QS. My vehicles might as well not have it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.

I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.

Fair enough, though the predator does have higher toughness and saves. I think it has fewer wounds though.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that mephrit synergizes really well with tesla? If you pop that mephrit specific strat you can potentially get like 6 hits off of a single tesla shot.

**wuestenfux**

v0iddrgn wrote:
Our Arks being T6 Sv4+ really irks me. Before 8th we actually had tough vehicles now every auto cannon equivalent is a death knell for our QS vehicles.

Well, it appears that successful Necron lists use 3 Doomsday Arks and 3 Doom Scythes, and fill the rest with the units of your choice: i.e., have a look at the 2nd ranked player in https://www.40kstats.com/castleassault

**vict0988**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
vict0988 wrote:
Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.

You're lucky then. I have horrrible luck with QS. My vehicles might as well not have it.

For D6 damage the average damage caused against QS is 1,5 or 1 if you use QD. The average of 8 lances with doom shooting is 4,7. Add a CP re-roll and 4 wounds from 8 lances + Doom is perfectly average.

tneva82 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.

I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.

Fair enough, though the predator does have higher toughness and saves. I think it has fewer wounds though.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that mephrit synergizes really well with tesla? If you pop that mephrit specific strat you can potentially get like 6 hits off of a single tesla shot.

Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game. With Mephrit at RF range Tesla truly becomes the anti-everything weapon, being better than Gauss against pretty much every target. How about that Stratagem? It improves firepower by 17% at the cost of 1 CP, compare that to Extermination Protocols = 40-90% for 1 CP or Showing Off/Endless Cacaphony 100% for 2CP. It's fun to use and might be worth it in the very niche circumstances, like if you've got a Triarch Stalker and MWBD on 10 Immortals, you get 6 extra S5 hits, okay not the absolute worst, especially at RF range or if you're already spending 1CP for ignores cover. Or with EP Destroyers you get 3,5 extra S6 AP-3 D3 Damage hits. But look at the ignores cover Stratagem I just mentioned, that's 33% more damage against GEQ in cover, 50% against Fire Warriors, 100% against MEQ or Rangers.

**Odrankt**

Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Wait, you can stack stratagems like that? That sounds hilarious, I need to try that.

**Odrankt**

Yeah? Why couldn't you? They are done in the shooting phase and have separate names + abilities. So they stack? It's also only 2CP for both of them.18 + 6-8 (on average) S6 -3/-4 (if in half range) and D3 DMG with RRing all failed hits + wounds packs a lot of punch.

**JNAProductions**

I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

**CthuluIsSpy**

JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.

**Odrankt**

I'm confused by the question? Tesla produces 2 extra hits on a 6+ (3 in total) but for every natural 6 you roll when using the Mephrit gem you get to roll an extra hit. So say if you rolled 9 6+ from your Tesla Tomb blades you then get to roll 9 more dice and after that you do the Tesla effect.

**JNAProductions**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

Okay, my bad!

I thought it was an extra HIT from 6s to-hit, not an extra HIT ROLL.

So while a 6 to-hit could potentially generate 6 hits total, it averages to less.

**Dynas**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.

The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.

**Odrankt**

Yeah, the Stratgem means that if you roll another 6 you don't get to roll another die but the Tesla ability still works. Maybe read the codex and the Stratgem next time buddy.

Hate it when non-Necron players try to tell us out rules even though it pretty obvious how it's meant to be played.

**JNAProductions**

Dynas wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.

The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.

Hm. RAW, I think that might be right-though RAI is likely that it just means you can't generate extra hits VIA THIS STRATAGEM. I'd ask your TO/opponent how they want to rule it before the game starts.

Odrankt wrote:
Yeah, the Stratgem means that if you roll another 6 you don't get to roll another die but the Tesla ability still works. Maybe read the codex and the Stratgem next time buddy.

I misremembered the stratagem. I freely admitted I was wrong when it was pointed out and when I double-checked against the actual text.

No need to be rude about me making a mistake.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Dynas wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.

You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.

The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.

No, it says it cannot generate additional HIT ROLLS.
Tesla still works, even RAW, as its not a hit roll.

**tneva82**

And despite it working it's still just 16% more hits. Poor usage of cp. Yes you get lucky and it's nice. Then you get unlucky and lt does nothing. You don't plan for luck. You plan for average. Which is 16% increase

**torblind**

Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

**sieGermans**

torblind wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

[abridged]

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

This is good analysis.

**vict0988**

torblind wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.

**torblind**

vict0988 wrote:
torblind wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.

What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?

**vict0988**

torblind wrote:
vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.

What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?

*360 shots
*60 1s are re-rolled via Triarch Stalker so you have a total of 420 hit rolls
*420/6=70 extra shots from the Mephrit Stratagem
*70 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*70=54,4 hits
*360 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*360=280 hits
*(280+54,4)/280=1,194
*19,4% increase in the number of hits from the Mephrit Stratagem.

*Re-rolling 1s and 2s (22,2%) applies to the Novokh + Crimson Haze combo, add the Novokh bonus on top for 33,3% and you're looking at doing 62,3% more damage than the baseline unit. If you apply fight twice, Anrakyr, Lord's Will and +1 S and you're looking at a 855,5% increase in damage against Knights compared to your baseline assuming you go from S7->S8.

**torblind**

vict0988 wrote:
torblind wrote:
vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game

I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.

Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.

What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?

*360 shots
*60 1s are re-rolled via Triarch Stalker so you have a total of 420 hit rolls
*420/6=70 extra shots from the Mephrit Stratagem
*70 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*70=54,4 hits
*360 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*360=280 hits
*(280+54,4)/280=1,194
*19,4% increase in the number of hits from the Mephrit Stratagem.

*Re-rolling 1s and 2s (22,2%) applies to the Novokh + Crimson Haze combo, add the Novokh bonus on top for 33,3% and you're looking at doing 62,3% more damage than the baseline unit. If you apply fight twice, Anrakyr, Lord's Will and +1 S and you're looking at a 855,5% increase in damage against Knights compared to your baseline assuming you go from S7->S8.

Yeah looks right. Simple simulations confirm it too.

Edit: simulation is here: http://dice-hammer.com/reroll-proc.xlsx

**dapperbandit**

Is there a way to use Nemesor Zahndrehk and Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle against Space Marines without getting annihilated by Auspex Scan?

**vict0988**

dapperbandit wrote:
Is there a way to use Nemesor Zahndrehk and Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle against Space Marines without getting annihilated by Auspex Scan?

Stay more than 12" away from scary Infantry squads when you teleport.

**Slaul**

Hi folks, any tips for a newcomer to Necrons?

I am buying a second-hand Necron army this afternoon and have no idea how to use any of it yet haha!

Spoiler:

Is it possible to build a half decent starter list out of that? What would be the best next things to build into?