Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**tneva82**

So basically 4++ and every fail will take expensive model. Rp is good on smaller games but 2k rp is negated too easily. And d1 isn't that hot. Ap3 is nice except in practice against cc threats no real difference between ap1 or ap3. Inv save is same anyway.

I try and try but they struggle with marine melee threats and those aren't even biggest worry to begin with. Face actual threat and even if they survive(unlikely seeing how soft for points they are) they are outclassed. Destroyers are much better threat.

**Shaelinith**

Yeah the Sword lychguard would need to have some armies playing expensive, one wound, high armor, no invulnerable (or fnp) units to have some interest.
Non primaris/non stormshield marines so basically ... Devastator squads/havoc squad ? These don't come for you. And i doubt you will handle Berserkers well with lychguard. Even rubrics have an invulnerable save.
They would be good Tau killers, but good luck bringing them alive on melee. I tried, it didn't end well.
Almost everything they do, wraiths does better.

**IHateNids**

They also have 2 wounds and can bodyblock for your characters, which is nice

**Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll**

What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!

**iGuy91**

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!

lmao isn't that the truth. Our characters are probably some of the worst, and most overpriced in the game.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!

Eh, could be useful against snipers or sneaky flyers.
It would be nice if lychguard had heroic intervention though so they can be more effective counter chargers. Kind of surprised they don't already.

**dapperbandit**

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!

I'd probably do it for Imotekh

**Moosatronic Warrior**

I had a game vs harlequins where my opponent went to great lengths to get a Solitaire through my lines and into combat with my HQs, only to discover that the Lychguards ability made it all futile. I laughed.

**KonTheory**

If I'm playing against eldar, MWBD makes tesla hit good on 5+, but if I'm more than 12" away does it go back up to 6?

**iGuy91**

KonTheory wrote:
If I'm playing against eldar, MWBD makes tesla hit good on 5+, but if I'm more than 12" away does it go back up to 6?

If they were playing Craftworld Alaitoc, then yes, outside of 12 inches, they are -1 to hit, which your +1 to hit from MWBD will counteract, allowing your tesla to still proc.

I also enjoy using MWBD to allow Nephrehk Immortals to advance (moving 12 inches) and still proc tesla as normal vs gunline armies.

**wuestenfux**

dapperbandit wrote:
Destroyers are one of the few units that don't need to be in any particular Dynasty to be good.

So you're better off making them Nephrekh then paying a CP to put a squad in Translocation Crpyt than investing valuable points in an imperfect solution like a Night Scythe

Well, I'd combine the Destroyers ab initio with a Destroyer Lord.
But not every has his combo.

**elook**

I'd argue to say that Obryon would be somewhat decent in Combat. So using Zhandrekh to teleport/deepstrike with Gauss/Tesla Immortals, then using Obryon and Lychguard to teleport to Zhandrekh (and closer than 9" to enemies) for an easier charge would be effective. Still the issue comes down to points. If the next CA drops the points of our HQ along with Lychguard, then this would be a tactic I'd like to try.

**dapperbandit**

It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.

**IHateNids**

I have considered using the Deciever to redeploy a Monolith, pull Zahndrek through to that, and then TP Oby on top of that

then your opponent has a massive vanguard force in his face while the gunline of Tesla Immortals sits on your friendly objectives

if you wanted to be maximum troll, you can also (in the same turn if I'm not mistaken):
- Pull a guy with VoD through the monolith
- Grab Oby & Jump him back to the other end of the board
- use Oby again to grab another unit and add to the forward forces, like a unit of Guass Immortals or something shooty

its very expensive, but it's a good laugh of a lsit

**Odrankt**

You could just Deceiver Zahndrekh and then use Obyron and VoD on a different character to teleport 2 10 Lychguard.

There's no need for the Monolith. You could get 2 DDA for those points

**IHateNids**

Yes, I am awae you could get two DDAs for that price

but, if you are intentionally runnign a load of Lychguard to do this kind of tactic, it is not exactly a serious list, so there's no reaosn you couldnt use a Monolith

Worth it for the staying factor in a casual game, much like a Land Raider

**torblind**

IHateNids wrote:
Yes, I am awae you could get two DDAs for that price

but, if you are intentionally runnign a load of Lychguard to do this kind of tactic, it is not exactly a serious list, so there's no reaosn you couldnt use a Monolith

Worth it for the staying factor in a casual game, much like a Land Raider

Deceiver the Monolith and Zahndrekh, pull 10 lychguard through the Monolith (3" ahead, + 5" move) for a 4" charge, advance Zahnrdek and then Ghostmantle Obyron with another 10 lychguard for a too close to fail charge. Save the Veil for emergency teleportation of Zahndrekh and ghostmantling surviving LG wherever they need to go, (or use it right away if you rolll a 1 for the Deceiver). Did this once, with maximum luck on relevant dice rolls, against a solid AM gun line, and pulled off a nice victory. He was busy with lychguard for 3 turns, killed the monolith on the 4th turn, and was too far behind on points to catch back up on remaining turns.

**Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll**

I did a Deceiver + Zahndrekh + VoD combo, which was a risk because I didn't win first turn. Worked out though, luckily their shooting dropped my cheap VoD holder but not my Zahndrekh, and they forgot to disembark their screen to protect their Repulsor, so the Scytheguard dismantled that, then dismantled the screen, then died pretty quick after that. Zahndrekh himself hid in a corner.

**IHateNids**

I'd be happy to GI Mono & Zahndy, just hesitant to rely on that many on the GI roll, y'know?

**torblind**

IHateNids wrote:
I'd be happy to GI Mono & Zahndy, just hesitant to rely on that many on the GI roll, y'know?

sure, can't rely on that. also it sucks going second, its all just for occasional fun, really

**Pyrothem**

Be careful when trying this out. When you veil or Mono shuffle big Z he is open to being shot off the board with a Forwarn or Auspecs scan.... sad times.

**vict0988**

The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.

**p5freak**

vict0988 wrote:
The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.

That FAQ is nonsense, and should be ignored, because it breaks the game. Tesla will do an infinite amount of hits, because every 6 will do 3 additional 6s, which then will do 18 additional hits, because all are 6s, etc. This will go on infinitely. You will never determine the number of hits, you are stuck, and never get to the next step which is wound rolls. There is a thread about this in YMDC.

**CthuluIsSpy**

p5freak wrote:
vict0988 wrote:
The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.

That FAQ is nonsense, and should be ignored, because it breaks the game. Tesla will do an infinite amount of hits, because every 6 will do 3 additional 6s, which then will do 18 additional hits, because all are 6s, etc. This will go on infinitely. You will never determine the number of hits, you are stuck, and never get to the next step which is wound rolls. There is a thread about this in YMDC.

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

**p5freak**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.

**CthuluIsSpy**

p5freak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.

But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

**vict0988**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
p5freak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.

But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

dapperbandit wrote:
It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.

I've made some extensive posts on this subject before, but I think there are essentially 2 sensible ways to teleport Lychguard into combat:

1: An Overlord with the Veil of Darkness Relic, and re-roll charges Warlord Trait.

Only costs 87pts (plus your WL + Relic), put MWBD on the Lychguard and teleport for an 8" rerollable charge. IIRC it gives about a 75% chance of a successful charge.

2: Zhanrek + Obyron + Overlord with the Veil.

The Overlord Veils Zhandrek, and Obyron Ghostwalks the Lychguard to Zhandrek for a pretty much guaranteed charge. This is obviously very expensive, but you can include these units in a list without committing to this tactic, and only use it when the payoff makes it worthwhile.

The Deceiver is only worth it if you go first which means it's not a sensible option.

**torblind**

vict0988 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
p5freak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.

But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.

Now for added bookkeeping fun, if you first MWBD your immortals (as one does), you only get 3 additional hit rolls for the 6s, not the 5s.

**vict0988**

torblind wrote:
vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
p5freak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.

Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.

But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.

Now for added bookkeeping fun, if you first MWBD your immortals (as one does), you only get 3 additional hit rolls for the 6s, not the 5s.

You roll 20 hit rolls, get 3 sixes. Roll 9 new hit rolls to the side. Remove 1s and 2s, add 2 hits for every 5/6 in each batch and combine the batches. All these kinds of things, like FNP could've been replaced with more elegant rules and Stratagems. +1 to wound rolls would have been super easy.