Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/04/05 19:19:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Khornate25 wrote: Hi people ! I was wondering what was our best way to deal with T7+ and Sv2+ Monsters / Vehicles beside doom scythes (I already have 3) and DDA (I already have 3).
I am asking this because lately I've been mostly playing my Imp. Knights and my SW, but I don't want my 'crons to collect dust (they are the first army with which I was actually competent for the first time back in 6ed). Yet, I mostly play against Daemons (Bloodthirsters and DP all across the board) and Astra Militarum (Russ heavy).
So I need to devise a tactic to deal with their heavy hitters. Sadly, tesla guns aren't really useful against them and we lost our good old gauss rule back in 7th ed.
What would you recommend me to use ?
I think you might need to read your opponent's datasheets, Bloodthirsters have a 3+ Sv and they are useless as far as I am aware, easy to kill with every weapon in our roster, Russes are also 3+ Sv but they are T8 which makes them much harder to kill with S4 but they are useless in melee. If you bring 3xDDA you shouldn't worry about Bloodthirsters. If you already have the best anti-vehicle option why do you need more? A unit of 6 Destroyers using Extermination Protocols and Heavy Destroyers are both good against high toughness units with a good save characteristic, Destroyers don't even need Extermination Protocols to be good against T6 3+/5++ Daemon Princes. Tesla Immortals are fine against Russes, shoot any Infantry blocking your path and then go tag them in melee. Destroyers with Extermination Protocols are excellent against Daemon Princes. Mephrit Deathmarks are going to be pretty good against Bloodthirsters if they DS, put a couple of wounds on them and then they'll most likely fail their charge and you can easily finish them off in your own turn. The Nightbringer is excellent against Monsters if you can keep him alive, Wraiths should win against Daemon Princes, so melee isn't off the table either. Lychguard with warscythes will get cut to ribbons, but if you can charge with them they'll wreck the day of any Daemon Prince or Bloodthirster. If your opponent is keeping their units out of LOS when you go first maybe you should invest in the Deceiver to get around that with your Doomsday Arks.
I would honestly just recommend you paint whatever you already have and then get whatever you think looks cool, it doesn't sound like it's your collection that needs improvements in order to face your opponents. Read some tactics articles and watch some battle reports from tournament players on youtube.
2020/04/06 02:03:51
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I have been thinking about how to best impelement a melee threat into my army without completely disrupting the overall concept.
This is what I have come up with:
+ Heavy Support + Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts] Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 111pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
++ Total: [84 PL, 8CP, 1,250pts] ++
The CCB will be handing out the MWBD buff to the lychguard in the relevant turn when I want to engage and have cleared the screen with my immortals and Tomb Blades and at the same time provide the reroll to charge. If possible/necessary it also can eat the overwatch, as it is the most durable model in my army. Alternative would be to drop Blades and Deathmarks to incorporate 6 Wraiths to double up on the melee and wrapping capabilities.
I´ve tested it once so far and failed horribly because the Lychguard failed the charge and stood in front of Dakkabots... Do you guys think it is possible to include the core of Lychguard and CCB with reroll aura without completely disrupting how the rest of the army plays? Dynasty is flexible, I mostly play mephrit.
Cheers!
2020/04/08 10:39:18
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I have been thinking about how to best impelement a melee threat into my army without completely disrupting the overall concept.
This is what I have come up with:
+ Heavy Support + Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts] Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 111pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
++ Total: [84 PL, 8CP, 1,250pts] ++
The CCB will be handing out the MWBD buff to the lychguard in the relevant turn when I want to engage and have cleared the screen with my immortals and Tomb Blades and at the same time provide the reroll to charge. If possible/necessary it also can eat the overwatch, as it is the most durable model in my army. Alternative would be to drop Blades and Deathmarks to incorporate 6 Wraiths to double up on the melee and wrapping capabilities.
I´ve tested it once so far and failed horribly because the Lychguard failed the charge and stood in front of Dakkabots... Do you guys think it is possible to include the core of Lychguard and CCB with reroll aura without completely disrupting how the rest of the army plays? Dynasty is flexible, I mostly play mephrit.
Cheers!
Deathmarks have gone from really bad to just bad with the recent point drop. Dont play them. One DDA is like no DDA, you need at least two, to average out dice rolls. This is what i suggest :
Why nihilakh ? Because you can give your wraith a 2+ inv with a stratagem DDAs like to remain still, they benefit from re-rolling 1s.
Yes, the Deathmarks seem debatable, I am fully aware they will not be killing anything apart from single guardsmen. However, I have encountered multiple cases where I needed to have something on an objective and with the rest of our troops being M5 that is never going to happen if its one of the objective markers on the other end of the table. But they are surely first to go.
Have you considered my point about the lychguard? Because that was the main reason I posted here I would like to find a way to play them without building the whole list around them, as that seems to be a great way to lose the game.
Building on your suggestion I would swap out the Tomb blades for Wraith:
Yes, the Deathmarks seem debatable, I am fully aware they will not be killing anything apart from single guardsmen. However, I have encountered multiple cases where I needed to have something on an objective and with the rest of our troops being M5 that is never going to happen if its one of the objective markers on the other end of the table. But they are surely first to go.
Have you considered my point about the lychguard? Because that was the main reason I posted here I would like to find a way to play them without building the whole list around them, as that seems to be a great way to lose the game.
Building on your suggestion I would swap out the Tomb blades for Wraith:
+ Heavy Support + Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts] Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
++ Total: [84 PL, 8CP, 1,247pts] ++
Cheers!
I think you should decide for either lychguard or wraith, cant have both at 1250 pts. I dont like lychguard, with warscythes they deal good damage, but arent very durable. With swords and shield the situation is reversed. I like wraith better, they are fast, durable and deal good damage. Tomb blades are pretty good, i wouldnt remove them. They are fast, quite durable, and have good ranged firepower. Shooting power is more important than melee power. If you want objective holders scarabs are pretty good at that job.
2020/04/09 15:45:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The only use I have found Lychguard for is a bullet spunge. They can't kill really...um... Anything but most players don't know that at all. They just know they are an expensive melee only unit so they must be kill when marched up the board.
Just try to keep them in cover and send a cheap cheap Lord with them to really sell the threat. You will have the freedom to get your really workhorse units into position.
2020/04/09 15:55:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2020/04/10 14:17:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
I think they have some value as a board control unit, but I do wish they had more damage output. Pre-outbreak I was running a Nihilakh list with 10 Shieldguard and I'd won all my games. They don't kill much, but they give your gunline a lot of breathing room and absorb a disgusting amount of firepower. The unit was still alive at the end in all three of my test games.
2020/04/10 14:26:44
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
I think they have some value as a board control unit, but I do wish they had more damage output. Pre-outbreak I was running a Nihilakh list with 10 Shieldguard and I'd won all my games. They don't kill much, but they give your gunline a lot of breathing room and absorb a disgusting amount of firepower. The unit was still alive at the end in all three of my test games.
I agree they are reasonably tough. I just wish their shields were still a 3++, and we could mix shields and sword/board.
I just find you have to build around having them, and have a clear plan for them.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2020/04/10 15:53:44
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I agree they are reasonably tough. I just wish their shields were still a 3++, and we could mix shields and sword/board.
I just find you have to build around having them, and have a clear plan for them.
Yeah agree. I'm running them Nihilakh and using Reclaim + Dispersion strats to give them a 2+ inv when required, though I haven't actually needed to in any games I played yet. The 3++ from one of the strats has done the job.
It'd be sweet if they got 3++ as standard. Mixing would be cool, though not sure I would. I find scythes unwhelming damage dealers. Give them flat 3 damage or cleave inv saves and maybe, but as it is they need to be Novokh and supported by strats to put serious hurt out.
2020/04/10 16:01:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
Counter charge only works when a unit is cheap enough or was something mandatory like an HQ unit with a melee weapon.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/04/10 16:31:18
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
Counter charge only works when a unit is cheap enough or was something mandatory like an HQ unit with a melee weapon.
No particular disagreement on that point. I struggle to get a list where Lychguard really have a place.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2020/04/12 14:19:42
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I've been cooking up the following list. It's not meant to be competitive (why I chose to leave out DDA and Doom Scythes), but rather a 'take all comers' list.
I think it has a nice balance with Imotekh backed Tesla for horde, Lord supported Heavy Destroyers for armor, and a Novokh detachment bred for hunting elites.
I have an alternative list where a unit of Wraiths are swapped for 9 Tomb Blades, and the Scarabs are split in 2x3 to fill out the detachment. I like Tomb Blades, but I also like having a nasty melee component to the list.
2020/04/14 10:32:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
Counter charge only works when a unit is cheap enough or was something mandatory like an HQ unit with a melee weapon.
No particular disagreement on that point. I struggle to get a list where Lychguard really have a place.
As stated above, I also have a problem to fit them into my list, especially if I try to build around them. That is why I try to find a way to include them without warping everything around them. I simply like the models and really want to field them.
As for counter charging, I have no idea when that would be supposed to happen? All my regular opponents (DA, Admech, Guard and IronHands) simply shoot stuff until its dead. There is no charge in the vicinity of any of my melee units, unless its guaranteed to kill everything.
2020/04/15 01:32:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Lychguard have been, and always will be, a counter-charge unit in my mind, in an edition dominated by shooting.
When i have used them, their damage output wasn't incredible, but they were generally tough enough with their shields to take a charge from something like an invictor warsuit, redemptor drednaught, or medium sized death company squads, and then start grinding them down in melee as they reanimate their losses.
Which is one of their biggest issues. They don't kill things quickly in an edition where that is the biggest value from a melee unit. Get in, kill something important, probably die. They just don't work that way.
Counter charge only works when a unit is cheap enough or was something mandatory like an HQ unit with a melee weapon.
No particular disagreement on that point. I struggle to get a list where Lychguard really have a place.
As stated above, I also have a problem to fit them into my list, especially if I try to build around them. That is why I try to find a way to include them without warping everything around them. I simply like the models and really want to field them.
As for counter charging, I have no idea when that would be supposed to happen? All my regular opponents (DA, Admech, Guard and IronHands) simply shoot stuff until its dead. There is no charge in the vicinity of any of my melee units, unless its guaranteed to kill everything.
Against those opponents, Nihilakh Shieldguard are the only thing that might work. Plonk them on an objective in mid board, drop 4CP for Reclaim and Dispersion strats, give them a 2++ that bounces mortals back on 6s and deny them any other good targets.
2020/04/15 10:30:52
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Even if we play with "enough" terrain, it is virtually impossible to hide everything but the Lychguard. And also it costs me half of my total CP. Which is why I so far have not tried to use them with shields.
On the other hand, I do have some targets that they would be very good against with scythes, as some of the enemy units are really hard to kill without Heavy Destroyers and are much more apprehensible in melee - like the DakkaBots from Admech or the tanks from the marine chapters. Here the strength 8 of Lychguard and flat 2 damage would really help.
2020/04/17 00:24:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Is the Zahndrekh shuffle still a thing? Using the deceiver to put him and possibly a few other units in front of the enemy then using Oberon to mantle a full unit of lycheguard like 3 inchs away from the enemy. I remember being hit by it and having a hell of a shock as half their army was in my face right away.
2020/04/17 01:15:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I havent used nor seen it round me since the upsurge in Infiltrators to deal with BLBombs and Da Jumps
Granted, there's only 3 Necrons players at my local, of which I am the most frequent, so YMMV
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
2020/04/18 15:19:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I am so confused as to what the new Szeras model is meant to be. He looks like he has a warscythe....and a Staff of Light....along with a 9 inch aura to cause perils on doubles for psykers, implying he wants to be close....but crypteks are hilariously squishy, and worse than an IG company commander in close combat...how does one use a model like that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 15:23:47
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2020/04/18 15:30:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The model looks great. But, what an useless ability, psykers peril on doubles within 9". Most psychic abilities have more than 9" range. He is going to be another useless HQ tax. No dynasty, he wont be able to use anything that requires a dynasty, just like anrakyr the traveller, who cant go anywhere, except on foot. Cant be targeted by dynasty specific stratagems. I wouldnt be surprised if he has more than 10 wounds, thus can be targeted by anyone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 16:51:48
2020/04/18 17:38:31
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Maybe we'll get an upgraded mechanical augmentation ability.
I do agree that the range on his psychic protection seems a bit short. Would have been better if it worked against casters targeting him or a unit within 9" of him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 18:03:56
DA KRIMSON KLAWZ
2020/04/18 18:35:42
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
1. This model will probably not single handedly fix everything everyone has wanted (which aren’t even all the same thing to begin with).
2. This model IS awesome and has a super cool (and unique) effect!
3. We haven’t seen either his cost, statline, or anything else, so let’s not jump to conclusions.
...but also don’t set your expectations too manically high either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 18:37:18
2020/04/18 19:58:23
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Given that my other army that I have a lot of experience with is Thousand Sons, I have very little faith in Empyric Overcharger ever going off. Seems like another Necrons rule that's most effective against someone who hasn't seen it before.
I'm not sure what to think of the model itself; it's great in a vacuum but his new weapon is weird. He's going to need a pretty unique statline to justify the combo warscythe/staff of light, otherwise it's just going to be a downgrade compared to his old eldritch lance.
2020/04/19 02:22:25
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Given the size of him and his beefy weapon, I think it's safe to assume he's going to better than a cryptek in combat.
That psychics peril within 9" rule is meh, it's never going to go off. Hopefully he's cheap and the rest of his rules are good though, because the model is stunning.
10000 pts
4000 pts
Iron Hands - 12k 
The Shadewatch - 3k 
Cadmus Outriders - 4k 
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k 
DA KRIMSON KLAWZ 