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 Red Corsair wrote:
Maybe damage 2 on a wound roll of a 6 for all gaus weapons, but flat damage 2 all the time is just more power creep. I mean, I get it, with stalker bolters out in the wild, but those are clearly an error themselves.

Stalkers aren't bad though because they are Heavy 1

Not in a vacuum no. But taken in context of full rerolls and exploding hits with doctrines sprinkled in for that extra pop and they are filthy.

Same can easily happen with necrons, +1 to hit here, +1 to hit there, rerolls etc and suddenly you have something that's out of control. But, that's kind of a tangent and a pet peeve of mine that applies to the game in general (too many rerolls, auras being too prolific etc) so I'll leave it there.

Maybe so, but really if it's exploding on wounds, that's the most important part to have your rerolls and bonuses on. Almost everything Necrons have is on the hit roll with the exception of lords giving reroll 1s to wound...until you get to destroyers. I think that is going to be the biggest issue with trying to Give gauss weapons a boost and maintain that flavor across the range. You make a good unit into a crazy good unit while bringing other units up to par. I think that until we get a rewrite, gauss needs to be addressed by changing the stat lines on the weapons that are lack luster rather than giving a special rule that applies to all gauss based guns.

New fluff article for pariah on Warhammer community sight. I can't tell if it's about crons though

I'd say it's about crons:

Thrule’s angry starlight glinted on burnished metal, glinted in cruel, lens-like eyes,

Sounds very much like a load of humans being affected by an aura like the old Pariahs used to emit...

Or maybe they are bringing back mind shackle scarabs and the people are all being infected. Would make for a cool special rule or strat i suppose.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'd say it's about crons:

Thrule’s angry starlight glinted on burnished metal, glinted in cruel, lens-like eyes,

Sounds very much like a load of humans being affected by an aura like the old Pariahs used to emit...

That's what I thought too, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Besides.....I don't think Pariahs, if released, would even be very good considering the lackluster rule they gave to Szeras. That's just my opinion though.

I reckon that Pariahs with the same aura as Szeras are exactly what we're getting.

I hope not. That ability is 99.9% useless. Psykers move, and can advance, before the psychic phase, moving out of its range . 30/180 psychic powers are 9" or less. And even if a double is rolled, there still is the command reroll.

I reckon we will get that deny a psychic power on 4+ for 1cp.

 p5freak wrote:
I hope not. That ability is 99.9% useless. Psykers move, and can advance, before the psychic phase, moving out of its range . 30/180 psychic powers are 9" or less. And even if a double is rolled, there still is the command reroll.

I reckon we will get that deny a psychic power on 4+ for 1cp.

Strictly speaking, the ability is not 99.9% useless.

Without CP cost, it increases the chance of perils (before re-roll abilities) from 2/36 to 6/36: a 3-fold increase in initial likelihood. If it bleeds off CP from the opponent to enable re-rolls, that's a net benefit.
Note that for armies that have Psychic Power re-roll abilities, those are typically relied upon to mitigate failure chance--if they use it to avoid this, that's also a net benefit.

Thereafter, analysis moves to likelihood of the ability being within the 9" bubble. We simply cannot evaluate that without seeing more of Szera's statline and other abilities (if any).

In principle, we can say it is nearly certain to have no effect on Turn 1 if we go Second, and it is unlikely to have any effect on Turn 1 if we go First.

Further in principle, we can say that any units which have a movement speed greater than 9" are likely to be able to avoid the bubble--though whether this affects downstream impacts around strategic positioning is a Tactical consideration (i.e., if they elect to move away from Szeras which hinders their ability to capture an Objective marker--we can't realistically evaluate that mathematically in a vacuum). Similarly, any Psychers with movement greater than 18" (e.g., Hemlocks) are nearly certain to be able to avoid the bubble. Everything else, however, have reasonable prospects of being caught within the bubble. If we imagine that they will default to within 1.1" from Szeras following our movement, and where movement for infantry psychers is typically 6", they have a high likelihood of escaping in the movement phase only if they Run.

Etc.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but this isn't a 99.9% useless ability--saying it is, in a Competitive Tactics thread is a disservice to the community.

Note, I am not commenting at all on hypothetical Pariahs with a further hypothetical chance of their receiving this known/spoiled ability. I hate wishlisting like this because it has a high likelihood of disappointment even when the Actual outcome is a net positive. Why do that to ourselves?

It's one of those abilities that appear inconsequential in theory but come into effect only when put into the context of the actual layout of the gaming board.

Being able to move out of range is nice and all, but that might also take you out of range for you own abilities to cover certain units, away from objectives etc. It will force tough decisions on your opponent from time to time, without a reliable tangible benefit. I understand that this is probably not a quality many people would value over more immediate and replicable effects, but I personally really enjoy it and I would wish for more abilities to follow this approach.

If Pariahs have the same ability, it becomes less useless because we can in theory flood the board with them. But as it stands, yeah its a gimmick that will rarely come up.

 BertBert wrote:
It's one of those abilities that appear inconsequential in theory but come into effect only when put into the context of the actual layout of the gaming board.

Being able to move out of range is nice and all, but that might also take you out of range for you own abilities to cover certain units, away from objectives etc. It will force tough decisions on your opponent from time to time, without a reliable tangible benefit. I understand that this is probably not a quality many people would value over more immediate and replicable effects, but I personally really enjoy it and I would wish for more abilities to follow this approach.

Yeah if that libby dread or mephiston wants to move over 9" of my units it's benefit already. And of course grey knights not coming close means their melee abilities are wasted. I think I can find use for that.

Ork psykers meanwhile will have very few safe results for them that will either not result in peril or failed casting.

Even if within 9" of Szeras a double roll is still needed. BA psykers can cast their unleash rage and wings of sanguinius outside of 9". Good luck getting within 9" of an ork psyker when there are 30 boys around him.

I'm hoping Szeras has an additional ability or a new stratagem to help boost this previewed ability. Let's say something like 'Change the value of any die by 1 when psychic powers are manifested within 9" of this model'

Something like this could be used to make psykers peril or fail their tests. Just saying, there could be more rules round the corner to counter psychic.

Hi there, long time lurker and newbye Necron collector, I ve read some bits here and there and went thru the codex, 1st page and 4chan.

I know I might sound naive and PA might shake things a bit, but I was wondering, would a C´tan spam list be possible? including a Vault and all 3 C´tan, in order to spam MW; scarabs to screen and a bunch of immortals to clear hordes and enemy screen. Maybe a couple of arks or a score of tomb blades might help to show up consintency on the board.

I have been playing ork as a shooting army for the last 2 years with modest success and I would like to move to a more shooty list with a lesser model count and maybe a bit more challenging with how you move and show your presence on the board.

Thanks for this great thread and active community !

 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, long time lurker and newbye Necron collector, I ve read some bits here and there and went thru the codex, 1st page and 4chan.

I know I might sound naive and PA might shake things a bit, but I was wondering, would a C´tan spam list be possible? including a Vault and all 3 C´tan, in order to spam MW; scarabs to screen and a bunch of immortals to clear hordes and enemy screen. Maybe a couple of arks or a score of tomb blades might help to show up consintency on the board.

I have been playing ork as a shooting army for the last 2 years with modest success and I would like to move to a more shooty list with a lesser model count and maybe a bit more challenging with how you move and show your presence on the board.

Thanks for this great thread and active community !

Its possible. You could in a list take 1 nightbringer, 1 deceiver, 3 transcendant ctan, and a t-vault.
You'd need to find the right spot to put them all. I'd also suggest getting a big blob of something like scarabs to screen all your expensive ctan vs smites and vs shooting.
Otherwise, yeah, destroyers and tomb blades might be a good fit for something so aggressive.

Something comes on May 23td!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/10/a-regal-returngw-homepage-post-3/?

I know this isn't a speculation thread, but getting the Silent King is going to be (hopefully) an amazing power boost.

Hopefully power boost is in new codex or pa supplement rather than crutch character

 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, long time lurker and newbye Necron collector, I ve read some bits here and there and went thru the codex, 1st page and 4chan.

I know I might sound naive and PA might shake things a bit, but I was wondering, would a C´tan spam list be possible? including a Vault and all 3 C´tan, in order to spam MW; scarabs to screen and a bunch of immortals to clear hordes and enemy screen. Maybe a couple of arks or a score of tomb blades might help to show up consintency on the board.

I have been playing ork as a shooting army for the last 2 years with modest success and I would like to move to a more shooty list with a lesser model count and maybe a bit more challenging with how you move and show your presence on the board.

Thanks for this great thread and active community !

Of you are looking for a C'Tan heavy list the guys at GoonHammer are trying some out.
https://www.goonhammer.com/hear-me-out-lockdown-ctan/

Necrons are not the God awful things some make them out to be but I certainly wouldn't say no to a buff or two. I haven't played them much recently, because it just takes so much focus now to kind of master armies against the shifting meta, so i find myself wading upstream to get games in with some of my forces, Necrons being one of them. I play on Tabletop Simulator so maybe I will play a couple games with them and see where we are at. This Covid thing is seriously making life no fun tho. Games on TTS take so much longer.

I mean sure, we can play and win with Necrons, but I struggle to think of a worse faction than us?

Maybe tyranids? Maybe. So yeah, we need buffs. Many of them.

Also on a funny note, anyone else remember the huge arguments we had in this thread about whether our new model was going to be Szeras or Szerak? Looks like everyone's a winner lol.

 Jancoran wrote:
Necrons are not the God awful things some make them out to be but I certainly wouldn't say no to a buff or two. I haven't played them much recently, because it just takes so much focus now to kind of master armies against the shifting meta, so i find myself wading upstream to get games in with some of my forces, Necrons being one of them. I play on Tabletop Simulator so maybe I will play a couple games with them and see where we are at. This Covid thing is seriously making life no fun tho. Games on TTS take so much longer.

We aren’t straight up godawful but we do have some painful gaps. I’m hoping the custom dynasty rules include a decent durability buffing one so we can feel a bit more like we used to, but plugging the anti-vehicle/monster gap would take either the introduction of new units or a significant overhaul of gauss.

changemod wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Necrons are not the God awful things some make them out to be but I certainly wouldn't say no to a buff or two. I haven't played them much recently, because it just takes so much focus now to kind of master armies against the shifting meta, so i find myself wading upstream to get games in with some of my forces, Necrons being one of them. I play on Tabletop Simulator so maybe I will play a couple games with them and see where we are at. This Covid thing is seriously making life no fun tho. Games on TTS take so much longer.

We aren’t straight up godawful but we do have some painful gaps. I’m hoping the custom dynasty rules include a decent durability buffing one so we can feel a bit more like we used to, but plugging the anti-vehicle/monster gap would take either the introduction of new units or a significant overhaul of gauss.

See I really don't feel like we have many gaps in our ability to kill things, we're just too brittle. Sure DDAs are a bit swingy, but between them, destroyers and heavy destroyers, I think we have enough big guns to blow most armored lists off the table, if onyl we could survive a few turns of firepower.

We struggle most with hold board presence. Our troops are too expensive and weak to be brought in the numbers we'd need to hold the center of the table. We're also quite slow.

We need resilience more than we need more guns.

IanVanCheese wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Necrons are not the God awful things some make them out to be but I certainly wouldn't say no to a buff or two. I haven't played them much recently, because it just takes so much focus now to kind of master armies against the shifting meta, so i find myself wading upstream to get games in with some of my forces, Necrons being one of them. I play on Tabletop Simulator so maybe I will play a couple games with them and see where we are at. This Covid thing is seriously making life no fun tho. Games on TTS take so much longer.

We aren’t straight up godawful but we do have some painful gaps. I’m hoping the custom dynasty rules include a decent durability buffing one so we can feel a bit more like we used to, but plugging the anti-vehicle/monster gap would take either the introduction of new units or a significant overhaul of gauss.

See I really don't feel like we have many gaps in our ability to kill things, we're just too brittle. Sure DDAs are a bit swingy, but between them, destroyers and heavy destroyers, I think we have enough big guns to blow most armored lists off the table, if onyl we could survive a few turns of firepower.

We struggle most with hold board presence. Our troops are too expensive and weak to be brought in the numbers we'd need to hold the center of the table. We're also quite slow.

We need resilience more than we need more guns.

Giving for example warriors back some of their ability to threaten vehicles, that they had in 7th, might perhaps add some interesting dyamics here though.

It would mean that even if we struggle with keeping models inthe game, what models remain for later game rounds, are still scary enough to make up for their dwindling numbers. Every list wouldn't have to hug 3 DDAs to have a fighting chance, could perhaps field 2x20 warriors instead for daded variety, body count but still maintained AT threat.

20 warriors is trivial to delete though. Even if you have immune to morale wt around

The difficulty is that Warriors exist to be buffed by characters. Warriors with a Cryptek invulnerability field are a bit harder to remove. Annoying part of that is that Crypteks are VERY easy to remove. Eliminators especially, but all snipers make Necrons sad.

IanVanCheese wrote:
I mean sure, we can play and win with Necrons, but I struggle to think of a worse faction than us?

Maybe tyranids? Maybe. So yeah, we need buffs. Many of them.

Also on a funny note, anyone else remember the huge arguments we had in this thread about whether our new model was going to be Szeras or Szerak? Looks like everyone's a winner lol.

Worse? Sisters of Silence. Theres literally one build for them. One. My buddy is trying to learn them. A braver man I've never known. But he's really good and he scores well in his losses. Lol.

I think Imperial KNights in general suffer right now.

Dark Angels perpetually it seems.

Tyranids are "ok" but Necrons kinda have their number. Too much withering firepower for bugs to handle while the Wraiths and Swarms just interminable tie them up.

I'd take Necrons over those choices.

I mean we could even venture into some of the Chaos Marine stuff while we're at it... Models are cool tho. Death gaurd can be real good, and some niche builds will give necrons hell, but i wouldnt call that an unfair fight in MOST of those matchups.

So... I dunno.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
The difficulty is that Warriors exist to be buffed by characters. Warriors with a Cryptek invulnerability field are a bit harder to remove. Annoying part of that is that Crypteks are VERY easy to remove. Eliminators especially, but all snipers make Necrons sad.

Yeah Sniper are an issue for the Necrons for sure and none worse than Raven Guard in round one.

 Jancoran wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
I mean sure, we can play and win with Necrons, but I struggle to think of a worse faction than us?

Maybe tyranids? Maybe. So yeah, we need buffs. Many of them.

Also on a funny note, anyone else remember the huge arguments we had in this thread about whether our new model was going to be Szeras or Szerak? Looks like everyone's a winner lol.

Worse? Sisters of Silence. Theres literally one build for them. One. My buddy is trying to learn them. A braver man I've never known. But he's really good and he scores well in his losses. Lol.

I think Imperial KNights in general suffer right now.

Dark Angels perpetually it seems.

Tyranids are "ok" but Necrons kinda have their number. Too much withering firepower for bugs to handle while the Wraiths and Swarms just interminable tie them up.

I'd take Necrons over those choices.

I mean we could even venture into some of the Chaos Marine stuff while we're at it... Models are cool tho. Death gaurd can be real good, and some niche builds will give necrons hell, but i wouldnt call that an unfair fight in MOST of those matchups.

So... I dunno.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
The difficulty is that Warriors exist to be buffed by characters. Warriors with a Cryptek invulnerability field are a bit harder to remove. Annoying part of that is that Crypteks are VERY easy to remove. Eliminators especially, but all snipers make Necrons sad.

Yeah Sniper are an issue for the Necrons for sure and none worse than Raven Guard in round one.

Sisters of Silence are not a real faction, come on now.

Sure, we have tyranids number. But in the grand scheme of balance, they're probably on par with us (they beat some armies that beat us).

Dark Angels are marines. Even the worst marines are head and shoulders above us, even if we have an OK match up against them (again, balance across the whole game, Dark Angels will beat more factions than we will).

Knights maybe, but they can be souped with a whole manner of excellent armies and they're a rough match up for us by themselves too.

I think when we're scraping the barrel of sisters of silence trying to find worse factions than us, it's a pretty good sign that we're one of the worst factions lol.

Luckily, that might all be about to change.