Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**p5freak**

tneva82 wrote:
Typoes hardly proof since those aren't photos of actual rule so somebody would be writing them anyway. Typo would have come somebody typing from book.

The lack of -1 to hit is bigger tell.

Why would you write them down when just taking a photo with your smartphone is much faster ? If you dont have your smartphone at hand you wouldnt be able to remember everything and write it down later.

**IanVanCheese**

Aza'Gorod wrote:

Reapers are good but at 18 inch range it would feasibly give a primaris unit at least 2/3 full turns of shooting for us to get in range

Yeah 18" range is boo, but if we still have the VOD, then 20 warriors rocking them is a pretty great use of it. Also the new monolith might not suck, in which case eternity gate is back on the menu.

Again though, this reads like a bunch of educated guesses, not a real leak.

**tneva82**

p5freak wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Typoes hardly proof since those aren't photos of actual rule so somebody would be writing them anyway. Typo would have come somebody typing from book.

The lack of -1 to hit is bigger tell.

Why would you write them down when just taking a photo with your smartphone is much faster ? If you dont have your smartphone at hand you wouldnt be able to remember everything and write it down later.

Good question. But what was shown is clearly not photos of actual pages. Note how column stat name and values don't line up. Clearly its somebody typing down and in this process typos come just fine even without being fake. So back to -1 hit being bigger tell it's fake than typoes.

Leakers rarely are logical though. If they were once in a while we would get non blurry pictures...

Which actually brings one reason to your why if this was real. "leak" comes from gw themselves like those blurry photos come

**p5freak**

tneva82 wrote:

Good question. But what was shown is clearly not photos of actual pages.

And thats whats telling me that its fake. The new necron codex is already printed, GW does this 6 months in advance.

tneva82 wrote:

Which actually brings one reason to your why if this was real. "leak" comes from gw themselves like those blurry photos come

A blurry photo from an actual datasheet, that i would consider to be real.

**torblind**

Those are reasonable stats though, right? Buys warriors 6" extra distance and ups strength, which is great (flayers really need to be in 12" for rapid fire)

You could deceiver in one flayer unit at 12" and two units of these guys at 18" for example.

**Aza'Gorod**

torblind wrote:
Those are reasonable stats though, right? Buys warriors 6" extra distance and ups strength, which is great (flayers really need to be in 12" for rapid fire)

You could deceiver in one flayer unit at 12" and two units of these guys at 18" for example.

The stats for the walker are far from reasonable. Its stats are almost identical to a destroyer except 1 higher S, A and 2 extra W.

For its size it should be a bit tougher then that otherwise it's a target

**Khornate25**

I'm sure there is more to it. Maybe those rules are incomplete ? Plus, remember that besides unit stats, the armie and subfactions might get new rules or a revision of the ones existing.
I don't really mind the gauss 18" range. I play nephrek. Movement isn't a problem. Plus, it's an assault weapon. It matches my style of play. As for Primaris, remember they are getting a raise in point cost. Who knows if we'll see as many of them in this edition.

**JNAProductions**

Khornate25 wrote:
I'm sure there is more to it. Maybe those rules are incomplete ? Plus, remember that besides unit stats, the armie and subfactions might get new rules or a revision of the ones existing.
I don't really mind the gauss 18" range. I play nephrek. Movement isn't a problem. Plus, it's an assault weapon. It matches my style of play. As for Primaris, remember they are getting a raise in point cost. Who knows if we'll see as many of them in this edition.

A 17% raise.
While Cultists (a worse unit) got a 50% increase.

I would not be optimistic about them pointing stuff correctly.

**IanVanCheese**

Khornate25 wrote:
I'm sure there is more to it. Maybe those rules are incomplete ? Plus, remember that besides unit stats, the armie and subfactions might get new rules or a revision of the ones existing.
I don't really mind the gauss 18" range. I play nephrek. Movement isn't a problem. Plus, it's an assault weapon. It matches my style of play. As for Primaris, remember they are getting a raise in point cost. Who knows if we'll see as many of them in this edition.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the Gauss reaper stats, they're fantastic.

But yeah, if those are the stats for that canoptek thing, then it better have some other things that keep it alive. There are also some rumoured rules for the SK floating about on reddit. Again, enormous pinch of salt but these actually look reasonable.

Spoiler:

Again, could very well be fakey fakey nonsense, but something about that rings very plausible to me. And at first glance.... not terrible. Like I could see some use for him.

**tneva82**

Aza'Gorod wrote:
torblind wrote:
Those are reasonable stats though, right? Buys warriors 6" extra distance and ups strength, which is great (flayers really need to be in 12" for rapid fire)

You could deceiver in one flayer unit at 12" and two units of these guys at 18" for example.

The stats for the walker are far from reasonable. Its stats are almost identical to a destroyer except 1 higher S, A and 2 extra W.

For its size it should be a bit tougher then that otherwise it's a target

Aren't the walkers basically melee destroyer? Makes sense they have destroyerish stats. And of course the more you have stats the more pricey. 100 pts per model for melee unit is expensive.

**Aza'Gorod**

tneva82 wrote:
Aza'Gorod wrote:
torblind wrote:
Those are reasonable stats though, right? Buys warriors 6" extra distance and ups strength, which is great (flayers really need to be in 12" for rapid fire)

You could deceiver in one flayer unit at 12" and two units of these guys at 18" for example.

The stats for the walker are far from reasonable. Its stats are almost identical to a destroyer except 1 higher S, A and 2 extra W.

For its size it should be a bit tougher then that otherwise it's a target

Aren't the walkers basically melee destroyer? Makes sense they have destroyerish stats. And of course the more you have stats the more pricey. 100 pts per model for melee unit is expensive.

The thing is a tomb spider is T 6 so why not this thing. It's basically a glorified cryptek that can't hide amongst out models going by this rumour.
Its slightly tougher then a cryptek but since its canoptek it wont have any kind of regeneration so T5 5W 3+ 5++. It wouldn't take much too bring this thing down.

The ability to extend aura is nice but with our units being on average range 24 with the majority of the weapons in our codex a smart opponent is just gonna take this thing out turn 1 to stop you spreading your army out and to force you to bunch up around the characters with the abilities you were trying to extend further

Also with the stats given in CC you would, get 2 hits, cause a wound but with only a -1 they'd likely save it but it's only 1 D so would it really matter??

**IanVanCheese**

tneva82 wrote:
Aza'Gorod wrote:
torblind wrote:
Those are reasonable stats though, right? Buys warriors 6" extra distance and ups strength, which is great (flayers really need to be in 12" for rapid fire)

You could deceiver in one flayer unit at 12" and two units of these guys at 18" for example.

The stats for the walker are far from reasonable. Its stats are almost identical to a destroyer except 1 higher S, A and 2 extra W.

For its size it should be a bit tougher then that otherwise it's a target

Aren't the walkers basically melee destroyer? Makes sense they have destroyerish stats. And of course the more you have stats the more pricey. 100 pts per model for melee unit is expensive.

He means the tall spindly walkers, not the Skorptekh destroyers. The destroyer stats are fine. It's the war of the worlds looking thing that we're meh about.

**Surtr**

I'm really no fan of the new 'Big Guns never tire' Eule.
Looks like melee is gonna be even worth in 9th than in 8th...

**IanVanCheese**

Surtr wrote:
I'm really no fan of the new 'Big Guns never tire' Eule.
Looks like melee is gonna be even worth in 9th than in 8th...

Eh, it forces them to shoot at the unit that tagged them at least. I think it's fair enough, tanks have been pretty lackluster this edition, outside of those that fly.

GW have said they've made changes to buff melee and we haven't seen any of them yet. We'll see how good melee is once we know how the new cover rules work. but personally I'm OK with these changes. They make it some anti-tank weapons are the best way to kill tanks, not tagging them with cheap chaff.

**Surtr**

Yeah great buffs Like that new stratagem against fall back that deals maybe 1 Mortal wound. If you are lucky 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing GW seems to do to buff melee seems to be the new Terrain. And maybe the new Missions that seem to be focused on more engagments. But it doesn't change the fact that the enemy can still simply fall back and shoot you to death

**IanVanCheese**

Surtr wrote:
Yeah great buffs Like that new stratagem against fall back that deals maybe 1 Mortal wound. If you are lucky 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing GW seems to do to buff melee seems to be the new Terrain. And maybe the new Missions that seem to be focused on more engagments. But it doesn't change the fact that the enemy can still simply fall back and shoot you to death

We don't know yet. Small changes have a big effect on how the game plays. Yes that strat blows, but other changes could be much more significant.

You can still wrap and trap units. Tagged vehicles have to clear what has engaged them before they can hit anything else. If they fall back, they can't shoot anything still. I wouldn't see a buff to tanks as a nerf to melee. Both needed buffing and it looks like both will get buffed, we've just not seen everything yet.

**tneva82**

Surtr wrote:
Yeah great buffs Like that new stratagem against fall back that deals maybe 1 Mortal wound. If you are lucky 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing GW seems to do to buff melee seems to be the new Terrain. And maybe the new Missions that seem to be focused on more engagments. But it doesn't change the fact that the enemy can still simply fall back and shoot you to death

And so far terrain changes have been what has been commonly used anyway...so no help there either so far.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Surtr wrote:
Yeah great buffs Like that new stratagem against fall back that deals maybe 1 Mortal wound. If you are lucky 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing GW seems to do to buff melee seems to be the new Terrain. And maybe the new Missions that seem to be focused on more engagments. But it doesn't change the fact that the enemy can still simply fall back and shoot you to death

We don't know yet. Small changes have a big effect on how the game plays. Yes that strat blows, but other changes could be much more significant.

You can still wrap and trap units. Tagged vehicles have to clear what has engaged them before they can hit anything else. If they fall back, they can't shoot anything still. I wouldn't see a buff to tanks as a nerf to melee. Both needed buffing and it looks like both will get buffed, we've just not seen everything yet.

So far with GW when there's "there still might be something cunning that helps out" it never pans out. "marine codex 2.0 won't be that bad! Just wait and see! It's fixed somehow!". And then it turns out to be even worse than before.

GW says they buffed melee but...GW says a lot of things. Rarely accurate though. It's marketing speech they say. Who says in marketing speech "melee will suck"?

**Tiberius501**

I want the Necrons to be out already!

**IanVanCheese**

Tiberius501 wrote:
I want the Necrons to be out already!

From what we've heard, and from what the guy at my local GW says, it's gonna be real soon. Early/mid July is my best bet.

And we'll have Szeras/Pariah sooner than that.

**tneva82**

25.7 seems to be current rumour for 40k starter set. Separate necron release could be bit later like death guard last time or sob qad

**IanVanCheese**

tneva82 wrote:
25.7 seems to be current rumour for 40k starter set. Separate necron release could be bit later like death guard last time or sob qad

Yeah I doubt we're getting our codex until a little later in the year, maybe august/september. Still, I think we'll have enough new toys to reignite this thread for a while.

**Tiberius501**

That’s not soon enough! I need my metal skelly bois and gals NOW!

**sieGermans**

sieGermans wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I hope not. That ability is 99.9% useless. Psykers move, and can advance, before the psychic phase, moving out of its range . 30/180 psychic powers are 9" or less. And even if a double is rolled, there still is the command reroll.

I reckon we will get that deny a psychic power on 4+ for 1cp.

Strictly speaking, the ability is not 99.9% useless.

Without CP cost, it increases the chance of perils (before re-roll abilities) from 2/36 to 6/36: a 3-fold increase in initial likelihood. If it bleeds off CP from the opponent to enable re-rolls, that's a net benefit.
Note that for armies that have Psychic Power re-roll abilities, those are typically relied upon to mitigate failure chance--if they use it to avoid this, that's also a net benefit.

Thereafter, analysis moves to likelihood of the ability being within the 9" bubble. We simply cannot evaluate that without seeing more of Szera's statline and other abilities (if any).

In principle, we can say it is nearly certain to have no effect on Turn 1 if we go Second, and it is unlikely to have any effect on Turn 1 if we go First.

Further in principle, we can say that any units which have a movement speed greater than 9" are likely to be able to avoid the bubble--though whether this affects downstream impacts around strategic positioning is a Tactical consideration (i.e., if they elect to move away from Szeras which hinders their ability to capture an Objective marker--we can't realistically evaluate that mathematically in a vacuum). Similarly, any Psychers with movement greater than 18" (e.g., Hemlocks) are nearly certain to be able to avoid the bubble. Everything else, however, have reasonable prospects of being caught within the bubble. If we imagine that they will default to within 1.1" from Szeras following our movement, and where movement for infantry psychers is typically 6", they have a high likelihood of escaping in the movement phase only if they Run.

Etc.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but this isn't a 99.9% useless ability--saying it is, in a Competitive Tactics thread is a disservice to the community.

Note, I am not commenting at all on hypothetical Pariahs with a further hypothetical chance of their receiving this known/spoiled ability. I hate wishlisting like this because it has a high likelihood of disappointment even when the Actual outcome is a net positive. Why do that to ourselves?

Just pointing out that with the newer, smaller boards, Szeras's aura ability is now proportionally better!

**Sasori**

sieGermans wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I hope not. That ability is 99.9% useless. Psykers move, and can advance, before the psychic phase, moving out of its range . 30/180 psychic powers are 9" or less. And even if a double is rolled, there still is the command reroll.

I reckon we will get that deny a psychic power on 4+ for 1cp.

Strictly speaking, the ability is not 99.9% useless.

Without CP cost, it increases the chance of perils (before re-roll abilities) from 2/36 to 6/36: a 3-fold increase in initial likelihood. If it bleeds off CP from the opponent to enable re-rolls, that's a net benefit.
Note that for armies that have Psychic Power re-roll abilities, those are typically relied upon to mitigate failure chance--if they use it to avoid this, that's also a net benefit.

Thereafter, analysis moves to likelihood of the ability being within the 9" bubble. We simply cannot evaluate that without seeing more of Szera's statline and other abilities (if any).

In principle, we can say it is nearly certain to have no effect on Turn 1 if we go Second, and it is unlikely to have any effect on Turn 1 if we go First.

Further in principle, we can say that any units which have a movement speed greater than 9" are likely to be able to avoid the bubble--though whether this affects downstream impacts around strategic positioning is a Tactical consideration (i.e., if they elect to move away from Szeras which hinders their ability to capture an Objective marker--we can't realistically evaluate that mathematically in a vacuum). Similarly, any Psychers with movement greater than 18" (e.g., Hemlocks) are nearly certain to be able to avoid the bubble. Everything else, however, have reasonable prospects of being caught within the bubble. If we imagine that they will default to within 1.1" from Szeras following our movement, and where movement for infantry psychers is typically 6", they have a high likelihood of escaping in the movement phase only if they Run.

Etc.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but this isn't a 99.9% useless ability--saying it is, in a Competitive Tactics thread is a disservice to the community.

Note, I am not commenting at all on hypothetical Pariahs with a further hypothetical chance of their receiving this known/spoiled ability. I hate wishlisting like this because it has a high likelihood of disappointment even when the Actual outcome is a net positive. Why do that to ourselves?

Just pointing out that with the newer, smaller boards, Szeras's aura ability is now proportionally better!

This was a very well thought out review, and I enjoyed reading it. I hope I see more stuff like this from you in the future.

**Draco765**

IanVanCheese wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
25.7 seems to be current rumour for 40k starter set. Separate necron release could be bit later like death guard last time or sob qad

Yeah I doubt we're getting our codex until a little later in the year, maybe august/september. Still, I think we'll have enough new toys to reignite this thread for a while.

That is my thoughts as well.

PA: Pariah comes out with new Illuminor Szeras model, and new Traits/gear etc. Which, might just be a few weeks from now, as they are trying to make up for lost time due to COVID shutdowns.

9th edition SM/Necron starter with the new Necron units will have a mini index covering just those models. Seems to be July 25thish.

9th edition Full Codex will release incorporating PA: Pariah, 9th Starter kit units and any old model army wide updates. Similar to what happened with CSM.

**IanVanCheese**

Draco765 wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
25.7 seems to be current rumour for 40k starter set. Separate necron release could be bit later like death guard last time or sob qad

Yeah I doubt we're getting our codex until a little later in the year, maybe august/september. Still, I think we'll have enough new toys to reignite this thread for a while.

That is my thoughts as well.

PA: Pariah comes out with new Illuminor Szeras model, and new Traits/gear etc. Which, might just be a few weeks from now, as they are trying to make up for lost time due to COVID shutdowns.

9th edition SM/Necron starter with the new Necron units will have a mini index covering just those models. Seems to be July 25thish.

9th edition Full Codex will release incorporating PA: Pariah, 9th Starter kit units and any old model army wide updates. Similar to what happened with CSM.

I think to avoid invalidating Pariah completely, they won't actually put everything from it into the Necron codex. Like a few strats or relics will stay exclusive to Pariah to give you a reason to own it still.

I'm hoping we find out the release date this weekend with the box opening. I've got a week to take off work in July, need to know which week lol.

In the meantime, I have some Tomb Blade to magnetize. Pray for me (I just cant get the guns to line up properly, drilling a precise hole into a perfect sphere is hard)

**Tiberius501**

Yeah I should probably paint my Lychguard and Wraiths while there’s a break between the new kits coming.

Do we think the Monolith will get Quantum Shielding this time around? Or would that be too much for a T8, 20 wound model?

**JNAProductions**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I should probably paint my Lychguard and Wraiths while there’s a break between the new kits coming.

Do we think the Monolith will get Quantum Shielding this time around? Or would that be too much for a T8, 20 wound model?

It'd probably be too much.

A 2+, though, would be nice.

**IanVanCheese**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I should probably paint my Lychguard and Wraiths while there’s a break between the new kits coming.

Do we think the Monolith will get Quantum Shielding this time around? Or would that be too much for a T8, 20 wound model?

We don't even know if QS will work the same way. I think if you want to make it a beast, you give it 2 out of these three: 2+, 4++, QS.

I'd take 2+ save and QS personally. It'll be expensive and that's fine, but I actually want it to be scary.

I'd settle for a 2+ save and fixing its transport/offensive capabilities though.

**Tiberius501**

Yeah a 2+ save would be neat, and better guns I agree. The Blackstone allowing it to deny psychic powers as well would be nice.