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In terms of specific utility of the Atomic Energy Manipulator; that's a lot of text real estate for an ability that realistically only gives you a net benefit of 2+1 extra turns of random augment.

[For calculation purposes, recall that he can already augment units at the end of each of your movement phases--on the assumption of a 5 turn game and 3 warrior/immortal units, the assumption here is that he kills a unit on turns 2 and 3 and provides an early buff to the subject warrior/immortal unit]

Still very cool--and his statline is way under-budgeted at this point cost.

I noticed his warrior and immortal buffs are permanent. That's pretty strong.
If he kills something in melee he gets a buff a second unit in that turn, so if you play aggressive with his army you can probably steam roll pretty hard by just buffing at every opportunity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I noticed his warrior and immortal buffs are permanent. That's pretty strong.
If he kills something in melee he gets a buff a second unit in that turn, so if you play aggressive with his army you can probably steam roll pretty hard by just buffing at every opportunity.

Yeah it's always been permanent, but it's nice - so long as you get one of the two useful buffs. +1 str is very meh, but +1 T and BS are both great for warriors and immortals.

Odds of the extra buff going off in combat are pretty situational - chances are you already buffed the units near him in the preceding turns before you make it to combat. It'd be much better if the combat kills buff could be stacked on top of the 1 per unit one - then you'd have an interesting risk/reward rule.

If you are playing aggressively to make the most of the extra unit buff that extra point of strength would come in handy.

Not as good as the toughness and BS, but I wouldn't write it off that quickly.

Yeah, that is a good point, by the time you get into combat there might not be a viable unit left to buff. I guess they want you to rush the enemy or something.

Taht being said, in most of my games I have had enough MWBD to go around, the +1 BS is thus less advantagous, already being maxes at 2+ to hit by that. Of course there is the odd -1 to hit modifier.

I'm really liking Zeras rules, I don't think they're unfocussed at all.

I've been stubbornly running hordes of warriors in 8th despite them being bad, and found that the only way to get anything out of them it to run them aggressively with Anrakyr, and an Immortal Pride Cryptek with Cronometron. They just don't do enough damage for their cost unless you're rapid firing and charging for 80 shots/attacks per 20 man unit (with MWBD, Distruption Fields and Mephrit/Novokh buffs).

Szeras fits brilliantly into this strategy as a replacement for the generic cryptek. Losing the 5++ aura hurts (I think it's good that he doesn't completely invalidate the base option) but having an extra beat stick in the line should make up for it. Warriors that want to get into assault can use all 3 of his augmentations, he comes with a morale immunity aura, and will enjoy the +1 A from Anrakyr. I'm glad I pre-ordered!

I don't see his Atomic Energy Manipulator rule coming up often, but it fits the model nicely.

Assuming reserves still come in at the end of the movement phase, he can at least buff a unit on the turn he/it arrives. Outflanking 20 warriors and Szeras, you can get the buff off straight away.

We'll have to see how the rest of the codex shapes up basically. He's good if our troops are good, he's bad otherwise.

The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Shaelinith wrote:
The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Might be very specific but maybe there will be a stratagem that let's you spend CP to choose the outcome

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:
The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Might be very specific but maybe there will be a stratagem that let's you spend CP to choose the outcome

Doubtful, I don't think there has ever been a stratagem that is specific to a special character.

At least he's not Dynasty specific. Of course, unless something changes, he also won't benefit from Dynasty codex. At least you're not locked into any specific Dynasty from including him.

I really like the look of him. I used the new Cryptek model (because I’m a sucker for good looking models over old resin), who’s only 35pts cheaper, and you get a lot of benefits out of Szeras over him. So I’d say he’s well worth it.

Based on the Cryptothrall rules, and the rules for Szeras. I'm getting the feeling they are re-tooling the army to get to mid-field and hold it.

All the extra bells and whistles are nice, but I really want to see some kind of buffs to our durability so we can actually get a change to *roll* reanimations.


Granted, for what our current HQs actually *do* on the table, they are wildly overcosted.

I heard they may be changing timing on RP. In and of itself, that may be enough. Just have to see what the new timing looks like.

After the last round of point drops, I'd say overlords and lords are almost appropriate for cost. Crypteks are still at least 25% overcooked, Imo.

I'm wishlisting but if they would just bump up the unit size on warriors from 20-30 I feel like we could really mitigate the current resurrection protocol problems and allow better buff stacking.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hjhdyt/indomitus_datasheets/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

The leaks have begun.

Basically, mostly good stuff. Reanimator seems a bit pants, other than that it all looks like good stuff.

Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

tneva82 wrote:
Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

Plasmancer seems OK, but I think our HQ slots will be too busy for him.

Skorpekh Lord looks like a weapon. Skorpekh destroyers too, well pointed, good rules.

Their number is legion is a nice surprise for warriors.

Scarabs got a stealth buff. 4Ws each now and auto wound on a six to hit.

Royal Warden seems like an auto include if you're running any of our troops in significant numbers.

We need to see the army rules down the line, but for now this is a good start.

IanVanCheese wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hjhdyt/indomitus_datasheets/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

The leaks have begun.

Basically, mostly good stuff. Reanimator seems a bit pants, other than that it all looks like good stuff.

Yeah I was hoping for a least T6 for the reanimator. Its PL5 so maybe 100pts? More expensive then a cryptek and fairly easy to pick out. Weapons are pretty strong but range is awful


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

Plasmancer seems OK, but I think our HQ slots will be too busy for him.

Skorpekh Lord looks like a weapon. Skorpekh destroyers too, well pointed, good rules.

Their number is legion is a nice surprise for warriors.

Scarabs got a stealth buff. 4Ws each now and auto wound on a six to hit.

Royal Warden seems like an auto include if you're running any of our troops in significant numbers.

We need to see the army rules down the line, but for now this is a good start.

Yeah the royal warden is very versatile. Its nice to be able to leave combat with our CC guys and shoot or charge another unit. Handy for our skorpekh destroyers or vehicles if you want to use them elsewhere and not waste a turn

OK let's do this

New units breakdown

Overlord
https://imgur.com/je6oMXG
MWBD now affects all dynasty units and has 9" range, but only gives the +1 to hit (hello Doomsday Arks, how you like to hit on 2s?)
Relentless March: New aura, 6" range, +1 to move and advance for dynasty units, replaces the half of MWBD that got lost.
Still 3 attacks.

Overall, an improvement. He's still meh in combat, but his buffing capabilites improved and that's why we bring him, so win.

Bonus round: until new codex, have fun with this combo. Mephrit Overlord with Merciless Tyrant warlord trait. One shot super sniper with that tachyon arrow that can smoke most characters from the other end of the table with some half decent luck.

Skorptekh Lord
https://imgur.com/je6oMXG
Interesting loadout, weapons for elite units and chaff clearance.
Good statline, though I expected 7/8 W.
Solid beatstick, especially if accompanying Skorptekhs. I reckon these make a solid second wave after wraiths.

Royal Warden
https://imgur.com/Fmm819o
Gun is quite spicy
Fall back and shoot/charge could be invaluable, especially if using warrior blobs (even immortals are happy about this)
I see him making his way into a lot of lists

Canoptek Reanimator
https://imgur.com/H8JIBZt
Hmmm, at first glance he seems not great. Squishy and expensive.
Ability stacks with cryptek though, and 9" range is good
New terrain rules could keep him safe from the big guns letting him do his work.
We'll see...

Necron Warriors
https://imgur.com/BHjbrJD
Can mix and match guns
Their number is legion: reroll 1s on reanimations. Nice surprise here.
A lot of other factors will determine how good these guys are, but a new rules outta nowhere is nice.

Canoptek Scarabs
https://imgur.com/rtO7xeG
Gained a wound.
Hits of 6 automatically wound.
A great unit just got better. 3-6 in unit in the box, but likely just because of number in box. Expect to see them stay at max 9.

Skorptekh Destroyers
https://imgur.com/xI4M3QN
No -1 to hit on the big sword (yay)
The baby swords still being D2 is nice.
Plasmacyte is interesting. Gives +1Str and Attack, but kills a destroyer on a roll of 1. Worth the gamble if they can be taken as larger groups (6 most likely)
Assuming they can mix and match weapons normally, restrictions likely due to box contents.
Generally as I expected, look good, fairly pointed. Solid melee unit that eats aggressors for breakfast.

Plasmancer
https://imgur.com/bDB9MMp
Not bad persay, but competing with a lot of other good HQs now.
Some MW output and a decent shooting profile. Could sit in your lines and cause reliable damage over a game.
Basically gives us an unblockable smite, which is a nice at the very least. Could combo with c'tan for hilarious unstoppable MW list.

Overall, I'm happy with this as a first wave. Maybe nothin as crazy as those marine melta dudes, but as someone on reddit said, it looks fair and balanced against all the other factions, what more could we hope for?

Still need to see new rules for the rest of the new stuff and new army wide rules, dynasty traits, strats etc before we can truly know how good any of this is, but we have some stuff to talk about now at least. Will embed images in the morning, going to bed now.

Great Unit Breakdown, and I agree with everything.

The baseline of all the units are pretty good, which makes me happy. Points can be balanced later, but a bad statline is bad until the next dex.

Yeah I gotta say, my first reaction to the original leaks was disappointment but it was mainly due to how paper think the Reanimator is. Otherwise all this other stuff seems really cool and well balanced. Really like the Warden and Scarabs.

I was disappointed at first because I read the SM units before the Necrons. Man, the power level between the 2 doesn't scream balance to me - yes the crons are balanced but the SM stuff is over the top.

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Anything stop us from staking multiple canoptek reanimators on the same unit?

weaver9 wrote:
Anything stop us from staking multiple canoptek reanimators on the same unit?

They've limited buffs so the best possible buff to a roll is +1. So our warriors can only get a 4+ RP rerolling 1s (which is good)

I'm hoping when immortla come back they can reroll everything to represent what they are called

Edit, just checked and didn't realise that only applies to shooting, so maybe the reanimator is a bit better then I thought.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see the plasmancer being used mostly against say custodes or deathwatch as they are small elite style armies so his MW potential will be very cost effective

Edit: nvm

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a big issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a bit issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

With 6" you lose out on coherency max range as well by quite a lot inches, there's no reason to go for it when you can have 5 instead

KurtAngle2 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a bit issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

With 6" you lose out on coherency max range as well by quite a lot inches, there's no reason to go for it when you can have 5 instead

Under current rules, RP is the big one.

Also you can't bring a plasmacyte if you're staying at 5 or under models. I just don't think being able to spread out over more of the table is worth gimping your unit size. At the very least its a toss up between advantages rather than a "must stay under 5 models at all times"