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Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of atacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

 iGuy91 wrote:
Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of atacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

I'm assuming that when the codes drops he will have access to all his wargear.

But yeah I agree it is a bit of a slap in the face. Arguable you can use the skorpekh claw but its not exactly a meq killer

 iGuy91 wrote:
Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of attacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

More annoyed at his 6 wounds tbh, based on the model size you'd expect 8. Still, he's a bit of a weapon regardless and well worth his cost.

Overlords aren't meant to be combat monsters, they stand there and give aloof orders. I'll take the new aura and better MWBD over an extra attack. Still, I agree he should have 4 attacks. New weapon is whatever, but the old options will still exist too in new book as the models still exist (tbf Staff of Light might go, don't think a SOL overlord model exists anymore).

Overall, some solid stuff for Necrons. Some good changes to MWBD, re-roll RP of 1 on Warriors is pretty sweet, a few really hard-hitting weapons. Viable melee units. Taken by itself, I'd say these are all good changes and updates for an army that struggled in 8th.

It's just rough comparing our guys to the Primaris. A lot of great aura abilities, the Outriders are making Custodes players weep, everyone is salty about the Eradicators. Paying the same PL for our Reanimator as the Marines pay for Eradicators is just lemon juice in the wound.

With the necron rules out i have to ask.
For a completely new player is it reasonable to get two boxes for starting the Necron army or would it be a overkill?
For me the troops are so much nicer than the old ones and as i understand you need around 30- 40 in the army anyway.

I would personally buy 1 and round out the army with other things. You may not want to run 2 of everything in the box, or even 1 of some things.

Araablane wrote:
With the necron rules out i have to ask.
For a completely new player is it reasonable to get two boxes for starting the Necron army or would it be a overkill?
For me the troops are so much nicer than the old ones and as i understand you need around 30- 40 in the army anyway.

It can go both ways. You'd probably end up with more HQs than needed, but USD wise you'd end up saving if you ever wanted more of the units in the long run. There is some element of overkill for sure though. Like, I really don't need anymore Overlords....

That is assuming you can split it, which should not be that hard, as the SM side is going to be in more demand.

That being said, we do know more is coming, so it's really up to you.

Gonna start Necroning.

I see warriors still underpowered, with the points increase on the armies, necron may be stronger (necron warrior 12p and primaris 20...) but I still think they are very weak.

They said something about the new RP (in case we have a new one)?
Do you recommend buying the indomitus box?

Kebabcito wrote:
Gonna start Necroning.

I see warriors still underpowered, with the points increase on the armies, necron may be stronger (necron warrior 12p and primaris 20...) but I still think they are very weak.

They said something about the new RP (in case we have a new one)?
Do you recommend buying the indomitus box?

It's impossible to say from a rules perspective whether I'd recommend buying the box. The models are awesome. If you're going to play necrons, absolutely.

I think GW is trying to push us towards silver tide again, so hopefully we get enough new rules to make that a thing.

As an aside, with the new first turn deciding rules (it's just a straight roll off and done after deployment), I think the Deceiver has become a staple in every list. Being able to move DDAs into firing lanes if we go first, or units out of them if we don't, is is gonna be huge now.

Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

My suggestions is simply that units can come back from the dead if they die within range of a cryptek/overlord with res orb/tomb spyder.

Makes it so you have to wear us down enough to be able to get rid of our support characters. Cut off the head and the body dies sort of deal.

Edit: throwing thoughts out here as they pop up, but I think Heat Ray Triarch Stalkers are gonna be great in 9th. Can move and shoot without penalty, smaller boards will bring us into range sooner, can fire the flamer profile in combat to melt chaff, decent in combat.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

My suggestions is simply that units can come back from the dead if they die within range of a cryptek/overlord with res orb/tomb spyder.

Makes it so you have to wear us down enough to be able to get rid of our support characters. Cut off the head and the body dies sort of deal.

Yeahs that not bad, makes res orb useful as well

And I'm looking forward to using the stalker as well its definitely got a buff from the 9th changea. Also as the monolith is titanic it can still leave combat and shoot unlike a lot of other flyer vehicles that lost this ability which I think might catch some people off guard who charge it thinking it'll waste a turn of shooting at the chaff

Necron Scarabs seem pretty good now?

> Stay the same points (if rumours true), when almost everything else is going up.
> Extra wound on profile.
> Better damage output with feeders
> 9th Missions have greater focus on objective holding/scoring mid board, scarabs are perfect for that.
> Scarabs are always under 10 model count, so aren't harshly punished by all the anti-horde changes despite being upwards of a 36 wound unit.

Asymmetric wrote:
Necron Scarabs seem pretty good now?

> Stay the same points (if rumours true), when almost everything else is going up.
> Extra wound on profile.
> Better damage output with feeders
> 9th Missions have greater focus on objective holding/scoring mid board, scarabs are perfect for that.
> Scarabs are always under 10 model count, so aren't harshly punished by all the anti-horde changes despite being upwards of a 36 wound unit.

Yeah they were already great, I think they're gonna be seriously good in 9th. Glad I've agreed to trade my old bases with someone for their new ones.. I'll have 18 of the new guys ready for 9th.

I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Against anything they'd wound on a 5+ or better, they're better than before.

Against a T6+ target, here's how it breaks down:

Before:

36 attacks
18 hits
6 wounds

Now:
36 attacks
12 hits, 6 hits that auto-wound
2 regular wounds
8 wounds total

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

Huh I'm actually quite surprised there. Still its nice buff overall and the extra wound is awesome

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

Huh I'm actually quite surprised there. Still its nice buff overall and the extra wound is awesome

Yeah, they're still not going to run headlong into a 10 man intercessor squad and shredd it, but they will mess up light infantry, they're fast and they have a ton of cheap wounds - if the rumor is true and they stay at 13pts, they're just over 3pts per wound - that's gotta be reach for most pts efficient wounds in the game. 9 scarabs will be an utter pain to shift off an objective and they would cost like 117pts.

Cane someone to the scarab math with The Novokh dynasty trait? Maybe a set with Crimson Haze in effect?

I run 3x9 Novokh Scarabs with a Crimson Haze DLord as a distraction carnifex/murderball.

 Blndmage wrote:
Cane someone to the scarab math with The Novokh dynasty trait? Maybe a set with Crimson Haze in effect?

I run 3x9 Novokh Scarabs with a Crimson Haze DLord as a distraction carnifex/murderball.

9 old Novokh scarabs vs T4 = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 9 wounds.
9 new Novokh scarabs vs T4 = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 12 wounds (4.5 auto, 7.5 normal)

9 old Novokh scarabs vs T6+ = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 9 wounds.
9 new Novokh scarabs vs T6+ = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 8.25 wounds (4.5 auto, 3.75 normal)

Crimson haze adds a tiny amount to each of these, around a wound added tops. I cba doing exact maths on it atm.

Void dragon confirmed

Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

Yeah that thought crossed my mind as well

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

Yeah that thought crossed my mind as well

I can see the deceiver being easy enough, basically take off the wings, change the head and spear arm. Boom, deceiver. Nightbringer would be a more significant undertaking. Personally I just hope they're coming in the second wave. Chaos have 4 enormous greater daemons, no reason we can't have three big honking C'Tan

I'm still loyal to The Outsider!
Though they may still be trapped in the sphere, I serve them!
Do they even exist in the lore now?

Oh btw, I knew I shouldn't be trusted with the maths. I was wrong with scarabs, they're actually better against all targets now.

New scarabs vs T4 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 6.66 wounds (4 auto) + 2.66 normal

New scarabs vs T6 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds (4 auto) + 1.33 normal.

I stupidly calculated that of 12 hits, 2 would be 6s. In reality 1/3 of all hits (rolls of 4+) would be 6s.

Now is a good time to tell you all I failed A-level Maths.

On the plus side, scarabs rule.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Oh btw, I knew I shouldn't be trusted with the maths. I was wrong with scarabs, they're actually better against all targets now.

New scarabs vs T4 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 6.66 wounds (4 auto) + 2.66 normal

New scarabs vs T6 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds (4 auto) + 1.33 normal.

I stupidly calculated that of 12 hits, 2 would be 6s. In reality 1/3 of all hits (rolls of 4+) would be 6s.

Now is a good time to tell you all I failed A-level Maths.

On the plus side, scarabs rule.

Haha don't worry about it mate you did a better job then I could've, at least they are better then we thought

I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe