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Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I’m going The new Szarekhan Dynasty just cos the scheme is super cool, but I do hope they’ll get more to their army rule than just denying psychic stuff.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I face plenty of d3 shots that gets max shots. 50% buff. And there's no real benefit for 6th to compensate for drawbacks

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I face plenty of d3 shots that gets max shots. 50% buff. And there's no real benefit for 6th to compensate for drawbacks

RP and maximising strats is enough reason for me, but fair enough. You're also gonna miss out on the plasmacyte too.

So are Skorpekh Destroyers our hardest hitting melee unit right now? All things being equal and not worrying about delivery into combat do they outperform 10 Scytheguard if the unit size in the codex does get bumped to 6 + the plasmacyte?

9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

 Sasori wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

Watching some of the more competitive players games thus far in 9th... I'd say we're both right. Ten-man, Veteran Strat, Transhuman Strat, Primeris will be EVERYWHERE, holding those exact objectives far to well for their points. On paper, our chonky-scorpy-bois will then proceed to take said objectives. ;-)

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

Yeah I agree with you. Its still a 1/6 chance of your enemy getting 6 shots on a 6 man squad of guys the changes to blast make no difference to that, all that's changed it now there's a 1/2 chance of them getting at least 3 shots and we've lost 1/3 chance of 1-2 shots so if you think about it there's always been more chance of them rolling 3+ shots at a 2/3 chance.

More more scared of running a 11+ squad of warriors then a 6 man sqaud of Skorpekhs




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
So are Skorpekh Destroyers our hardest hitting melee unit right now? All things being equal and not worrying about delivery into combat do they outperform 10 Scytheguard if the unit size in the codex does get bumped to 6 + the plasmacyte?

I would argue that with the rerolls and plasmacyte they outperform for damage, but 10 scytheguard are more durable as they both have the same save at T5 3+ but scytheguard have more bodies so have more opportunity to roll for RP. One thing about scytheguard is that they have str 7 Ap -4 D 2 but they are slower then the Skorpekh destroyers

50% power boost is not that insignificant. If you disagree playing destroyer gun as heavy 2 shouldn' be problem eh?

Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

That's not quite right. In the core rulebook, the pdf download, under the DATASHEETS page and Aura subheading it specifically says "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)."

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

That's not quite right. In the core rulebook, the pdf download, under the DATASHEETS page and Aura subheading it specifically says "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)."

Yea, that would be insane, there are a ton of +1 boost auras of various types.

Ah, my mistake then. I was confused by the Cryptek's Aura always specifying the Aura not stacking and the Rulebook's Modifying characteristics section allowing for cumulative effects. Oh well

 Sasori wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

I think it depends on how you look at it. Vehicles and tanks are better now, but a bunch of objective secured primaris will still hold an objective over a tank because they are obsec. If you can remove those obsec primaris, then yes, your tank can sit on and hold that objective. But the question is ... can you ? Primaris are pretty durable. I feel that Primaris suits the description of "powerful and durable" pretty well.

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Ah, my mistake then. I was confused by the Cryptek's Aura always specifying the Aura not stacking and the Rulebook's Modifying characteristics section allowing for cumulative effects. Oh well

Cool idea, though! Keep lookin’ out!

Yeah blast is scarier against big infantry blobs of 11+ but even then, it's not as bad as you'd first think. You hear 24 shots and gak your pants, but let's look at the Wyvern vs 10 man unit and 20 man unit.

Wyvern vs 10 warriors = Average of 14 shots. 7 Hits, 4.75 wounds, 2.37 dead warriors
Wyvern vs 20 warriors = 24 shots, 12 hits, 9 wounds, 4.5 dead warriors.

About 90% more kills, but consider the chunky cost increase that blast got, along with the disadvantages of being tagged, and also paired up with everyone's super insistence that MSU is the way to go, I just don't think we'll see that much blast out there. Yeah it's scary, but the increased points cost just costs them firepower elsewhere that would have made up that extra damage before. Also, remember that blast is only scary against the first 10 warriors killed, as soon as they drop to 10, blast goes back to min 3 shots.

With all that said, warrior blobs are still a bit meh for other reasons, but if they get the needed buffs in the codex, I think 20 man units could still have some great utility when it comes to board presence.

Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

sieGermans wrote:
Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

Read the necron codex pg. 117. Szeras warlord trait is immortal pride, you cant choose anything else for him. Named character usually have a preset warlord trait, across all factions.

Anyway, szeras is bad. He has two useless abilities, his augmentation is only good 2/3 times. He isnt tough, so he needs two cryptothralls next to him, further increasing his point costs, and they dont protect him from melee attacks. He would need four to surround him. He is a master technomancer, but only has 3" range, like any other cryptek, he should have 6". The canoptek reanimator has 9" range (but only one unit).

 p5freak wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

Read the necron codex pg. 117. Szeras warlord trait is immortal pride, you cant choose anything else for him. Named character usually have a preset warlord trait, across all factions.

Ah, interesting. I read over the new Pariah datasheet and didn’t see it mentioned.

sieGermans wrote:

Ah, interesting. I read over the new Pariah datasheet and didn’t see it mentioned.

Warlord traits are never mentioned on a datasheet, they are in codexes.

Do we know if a skorpekh destroyer is killed by the plasmacyte can it be reanimated?

punisher357 wrote:
Do we know if a skorpekh destroyer is killed by the plasmacyte can it be reanimated?

Yeah, same as any dead model.

Striking Scop reading off the new 9th Necron Points.

https://youtu.be/cQY932e6hN4?t=721

Initial impression

Characters generally cheap.

Immortal's at 18 points are a tad more than I would like. Maybe they get a rule/stat buff in the codex.

Wraiths go up a trivial 7% points increase so they seem like winners.

Doomsday Arks dodged a bullet only going up by 20points.

New codex/rules around the corner so hard to say.

New points. Anything not listed in the wargear section is 0pts now.



Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

The new stuff weren't there?

Oof Lychguard at 30 ppm is gonna be rough.

Unless our Night Scythe/ Monolith delivery system is getting a complete rework I'm not confident enough in my skills to field Scytheguard and get a meaningful return.

10 Sword n Board however, given the focus 9th has on durability and the 3++ shield stratagem, if it still exists, seem like a real thorn for the opposition. I'm imagining pairing them with an Overlord + Nephrekh giving them 12" pseudo fly movement onto objectives.

Edit: Res orbs at 20 is kinda yuck if RP hasn't changed.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

Things that catched my eye :

Praetorian at 23 (either loadout) are not bad. They are tough, fearless, are correct in close combat for the voidblade variant. Compared to a 18 pts Immortal (what are they smoking seriously), for 5 point more you are MUCH more tanky. I think i've found my objective grabbers of 9th.
As you said Wraiths with particle beamer are pretty good too. Intesting fact, Wraiths with Coils actually go down in points. Still won't play it though.

Heavy Destroyers are still pretty cheap at 40.

Res Orb are still 20 pts. If RP is much better, it could become an autobuy.

Deceiver and Nightbringer are pretty much the same and i used to play them at the end. Nightbringer especially with the news shooting in melee could be scary.

Anrakyr goes DOWN in points. At 130 pts, he could become interesting to push mid board with Praetorian, Skorpekh, etc...

Funnily the Spyder don't seems to be on the listing, as both video i saw about points completly missed it.

tneva82 wrote:
The new stuff weren't there?

They are the same as the previous leak

Canoptek Doom Stalker 130
Canoptek Reanimator 110
Cryptothralls 20
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer 70
Plasmancer 80
Royal Warden 80
Skorpekh Destroyers 40
Plasmascythe 15
Skorpekh Lord 130

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

Things that catched my eye :

Praetorian at 23 (either loadout) are not bad. They are tough, fearless, are correct in close combat for the voidblade variant. Compared to a 18 pts Immortal (what are they smoking seriously), for 5 point more you are MUCH more tanky. I think i've found my objective grabbers of 9th.
As you said Wraiths with particle beamer are pretty good too. Intesting fact, Wraiths with Coils actually go down in points. Still won't play it though.

Heavy Destroyers are still pretty cheap at 40.

Res Orb are still 20 pts. If RP is much better, it could become an autobuy.

Deceiver and Nightbringer are pretty much the same and i used to play them at the end. Nightbringer especially with the news shooting in melee could be scary.

Anrakyr goes DOWN in points. At 130 pts, he could become interesting to push mid board with Praetorian, Skorpekh, etc...

Funnily the Spyder don't seems to be on the listing, as both video i saw about points completly missed it.

No one cares about the Spyder, it sucks so much even the CA team forgot it exists.

New stuff points already out in the wild, the leaks were correct for the most part (scarabs going up to 15 not withstanding).

Praetorians could be interesting, I agree. They were before at 20ppm, but now the relative increase for immortals makes them even better. Good spot on Anrykyr, I think I'll be converting him up to join my Lychguard, really claim that mid-board. Also he's an easy conversion from that new Overlord model, which I shall have a spare of.

I think for now (it's only gonna be a month) we're just looking at 3 x 5 man immortal squads and then pumping points into Tomb Blades/Lychguard/Praetorians/Wraiths.

One thing I have been wondering is with Warriors getting the reroll 1s what if immortals say get reroll everything? All it would do really is match their names which to be fair for a unit called immortals they aren't all that survivable.

They've reworked scarabs and warriors so immortals could be getting a new rule as well