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 Aza'Gorod wrote:
One thing I have been wondering is with Warriors getting the reroll 1s what if immortals say get reroll everything? All it would do really is match their names which to be fair for a unit called immortals they aren't all that survivable.

They've reworked scarabs and warriors so immortals could be getting a new rule as well

I doubt it, warriors and scarabs got new models. Every necron player on earth already has a bulk of Immortals. I think they're moving into a niche, they want warriors to be our main troops now (and I think they'll get their wish come the new codex).

A) immortals didn't get new model. Less likely datasheet change thus
B) if squad dies no more rp. 10 wounds not that hard.

We have also seen indomitus box datasheets. No immortals. If codex brings change points could just as well go up as well

Looks like silver tide is back on the menu boys.

In all seriousness, these changes are almost certainly going to last for a month, but stuff that isn't getting a new model is likely to be in a similar spot. Army rules could change what is viable/good though, especially changes to RP.

With only a 10pts increase, I'm still convinced that the heat ray stalker is the finest value in town at 125pts. Triarch units becoming good, just as the Silent King rocks up, what a coincidence.

It's not as bad as other xenos were hit, but considering Space Marines got lower point increases, it's not much to talk about. Still very much a bad army until the new codex arrives unfortunately, nothing here saves that. Tesla Immortals still the most cost effective troop, Doomsday Ark still the most effective AT, overlord still the best HQ, etc. Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever. The Obelisk going up 40 points is actually hilarious, it's as if GW regrets its existence.

I get the distinct impression that GW didn't expect Indomitus to sell as fast as it did - all the units in that box are VERY aggressively priced for both Necrons and especially SM. Well, all except the reanimator, that thing still sucks.

I wonder why we have points for new non-Indomitus units like the Doomstalker but not the Silent King or Void Dragon.

Uuf. Tesseract ark went up by 50. Was considering getting 2 as seems useful for 9th.

Well still waiting for new book to see if rules got any nerfs as well

cwanderson wrote:
I wonder why we have points for new non-Indomitus units like the Doomstalker but not the Silent King or Void Dragon.

I'm guessing because they're coming out first wave... maybe even before the codex.


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Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

tneva82 wrote:
Uuf. Tesseract ark went up by 50. Was considering getting 2 as seems useful for 9th.

Well still waiting for new book to see if rules got any nerfs as well

It only net went up by 20 since Gauss Cannons went down.

We got by pretty good with most of our points, but it's very likely to be a moot point in a month or so.


I think we are seeing the DDS and Lokhust because they are likely coming in a start collecting and/or starter set soon. We do have that one picture which really looks like a Necron Start collecting floating around.

Other things worth mentionning, some of the worst increased for our units (above 15%) :

Annihilation Barge with Gauss Cannon had a 20pts (20%) increase, because they were obviously too strong and the changes to Fly make them better now /s

Nightscythe had a 17,39% increase,again, so strong.

Ghost Ark had a 16,67% increase, But they still are 14 wounds, sot 10pt per T6 4+ wound making them cheaper than warriors. I will probably try units of 10 warriors in Ghost Arks.

The twin heavy gauss cannon of the Triach Stalker had a 10 pt increase because ... reasons where other guns stayed the same. Heat Ray is now my best friend.

Taking a Lord with a voidblade is no more interesting. All of the weapon options are now 0 points.
I strongly thinks we will lose Voidblades and Hyperphase sword on all the characters as there is no model for them.

Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

Thank you.
Also

WHY GOD?! WHY?!

Well hike is less than average so it actually improved

IanVanCheese wrote:
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Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

Thank you.
Also

WHY GOD?! WHY?!

You have to look at it in context, it actually hardly moved compared to most other large models. I actually think it's more viable, but who knows.

It seems like the new new heavy destroyer isn't a direct replacement but just a heavier version which is interesting. Unless the codex drops the originals. That's kind of the awkward position we are in ATM, the new book is only a couple months out at most which makes all this kind of worthless really. Half or all our resin might evaporate upon release of the new book for example.

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

Reanimation (one of the few units tanky enough to reliably use it), higher maximum wound count per unit (important if someone needs to shift you), infantry so can benefit from cover, can cover our squishy characters from snipers.

I will admit though, wraiths are also excellent (and free pistols now, woooo).

Ultimately, while similar on paper, they do different jobs. Wraiths harrass enemy objectives and tag stuff, lychguard hold mid-board.

Also Lychguard do the most valuable thing of all... they don't take up a fast attack slot.

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
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Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

They still soak wounds for characters and reanimate but yea it isn't looking great, whats worse is if they make their weapon d3 damage with the new book like the overlords from the box.

So glad I just painted mine up finally At least I bought them for dirt cheap off ebay I guess.


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IanVanCheese wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

Reanimation (one of the few units tanky enough to reliably use it), higher maximum wound count per unit (important if someone needs to shift you), infantry so can benefit from cover, can cover our squishy characters from snipers.

I will admit though, wraiths are also excellent (and free pistols now, woooo).

Ultimately, while similar on paper, they do different jobs. Wraiths harrass enemy objectives and tag stuff, lychguard hold mid-board.

Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

Even with the increase, at 15pts per model scarabs are absolutely nuts and my fast attack slots are going to them first and foremost. 135 pts for 36 flying wounds? Sign me up.

Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

Even with the increase, at 15pts per model scarabs are absolutely nuts and my fast attack slots are going to them first and foremost. 135 pts for 36 flying wounds? Sign me up.

Yeah scarabs are a no brainer in a edition where holding points is key. They are so small that they can be out of LoS even with less than 5" terrain. They are still very effective at tagging vehicules with low rate of fire, having so many cheap wounds.
But they take a Fast Attack slot, and these will be highly contested. I still find Destroyers scary (even if they will need more care in placing them), Tomb Blades are definitively usable, and Wraith are so versatile.

I will probably play with two detachements before our codex arrive. I never used that much CP per turn anyway, 10 + 5 are higher than anything i ever had.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.


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Shaelinith wrote:
Yeah scarabs are a no brainer in a edition where holding points is key. They are so small that they can be out of LoS even with less than 5" terrain. They are still very effective at tagging vehicules with low rate of fire, having so many cheap wounds.
But they take a Fast Attack slot, and these will be highly contested. I still find Destroyers scary (even if they will need more care in placing them), Tomb Blades are definitively usable, and Wraith are so versatile.

I will probably play with two detachements before our codex arrive. I never used that much CP per turn anyway, 10 + 5 are higher than anything i ever had.

I think two detachments is going to be the way to go anyway. We're kinda hungry for HQ slots now too. We'll see how the new book shakes out with strats of course.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.

Im not underestimating it, I just don't find lychguard nearly as durable as you do is all. I like praetorians more, because at least they are fearless since your going to max these units if you want durability and they are much faster with fly. Lychguard pay through the nose for being the worst bodyguards ever lol. Persnoally I think lychguard and praets should be a 2+ save and hit on 2's in melee, but thats just me.

DDA will probably be replaced by the doomspyder or whatever it is called coming out. It will probably come 1-3 like spyders with the ability to spam it's gun more for cheaper. Thats kind of the spot we are in. Honestly these points are fun to look at, but ultimately worthless for planning since this crap was probably all determined prior to the new book being finalized. Or for all we know lychguard are 30ppm because in the new book they are nasty. I personally am just going to wait for the new book I think.


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Probably take a battalion or specialist detachment with your warlord, then a patrol as the second detachment if you need it. This will go for most 9th armies.

 Red Corsair wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.

Im not underestimating it, I just don't find lychguard nearly as durable as you do is all. I like praetorians more, because at least they are fearless since your going to max these units if you want durability and they are much faster with fly. Lychguard pay through the nose for being the worst bodyguards ever lol. Persnoally I think lychguard and praets should be a 2+ save and hit on 2's in melee, but thats just me.


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Probably take a battalion or specialist detachment with your warlord, then a patrol as the second detachment if you need it. This will go for most 9th armies.

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

MWBD helps with the hitting on 3s. You can also use the Nihilkah strat to give them a 2+ save (or even a 2++ if you stack with hyperphase strat). Expensive in CP, but we have more CP now than ever before.

Now true, you can do that with wraiths too, but picture this. Wraiths on my opponents home objective with a 2++, lychguard in the mid board with a 3++. They have no good targets and a ton of problems.

yeah this is all pointless chatter now anyway, but what else have we got to do. We could laugh at Tau and GSC I suppose.

I play GSC, they got shafted beyond words lol.

My issue with lychguard is their slow. Tremor shells or the new adech stasis bomb make them statues for all intensive purposes.

I guess you could veil or deceiver them, but that's more points. I like units that work well on their own personally, I have more fun with synergy between units but I don't like requiring it on such a pricey unit.

They are cool though, and I think slow combat in 9th is just going to be used to squat on table points and create an "oh sh*t" zone of intimidation.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I play GSC, they got shafted beyond words lol.

My issue with lychguard is their slow. Tremor shells or the new adech stasis bomb make them statues for all intensive purposes.

I guess you could veil or deceiver them, but that's more points. I like units that work well on their own personally, I have more fun with synergy between units but I don't like requiring it on such a pricey unit.

They are cool though, and I think slow combat in 9th is just going to be used to squat on table points and create an "oh sh*t" zone of intimidation.

yeah you did, so unfair lol.

Yeah's that's kinda my plan with them. I've always used them with Deceiver, slam them on a mid-board objective and they great a bubble of "not going near that". Throw in Relentless March and msaller board sizes, I don't think they'll struggle to get where they need to be. I feel you on relying on other things to be good though.

IanVanCheese wrote:

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

I played a few times with the scythe version, and even then, they tanked like champs.

They are never the main focus for the opponent because they don't create an immediate threat, and in the end they tend to survive.
My last game i played a squad of 7, they crushed an Invictor Warsuit counter charging it trough a ruin, survived an ultramarines-guilliman-agressor squad (that HAD to split its fire to down a Doomscythe and deny the strat), reanimate some models with a res orb, Veil on the other side of the board (with MWBD) to charge and destroy a Whirlwind with Chronus inside, and died with a lot of intercessors on them, but draw all the backline of the UM to them giving me room on the other side to control the board abd win the game.

Granted there was a little luck, they should haved died to the agressors, but it was maybe a 25% chance to stay on the board.

Even if sometimes the luck won't be with you, they are still on the tanky side, and need a lot of firepower to be 100% sure to clean a squad in cover.

They obviously need support and some other threats and are not the first unit i'll put on a list, but they can find a niche role in some cases. I still find them too expensive and they still lack something, but i find them playable.

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

I played a few times with the scythe version, and even then, they tanked like champs.

They are never the main focus for the opponent because they don't create an immediate threat, and in the end they tend to survive.
My last game i played a squad of 7, they crushed an Invictor Warsuit counter charging it trough a ruin, survived an ultramarines-guilliman-agressor squad (that HAD to split its fire to down a Doomscythe and deny the strat), reanimate some models with a res orb, Veil on the other side of the board (with MWBD) to charge and destroy a Whirlwind with Chronus inside, and died with a lot of intercessors on them, but draw all the backline of the UM to them giving me room on the other side to control the board abd win the game.

Granted there was a little luck, they should haved died to the agressors, but it was maybe a 25% chance to stay on the board.

Even if sometimes the luck won't be with you, they are still on the tanky side, and need a lot of firepower to be 100% sure to clean a squad in cover.

They obviously need support and some other threats and are not the first unit i'll put on a list, but they can find a niche role in some cases. I still find them too expensive and they still lack something, but i find them playable.

Tthey can do work, but yeah, you got lucky with some of that. I don't see a place for scytheguard anymore - Skorpekhs have really eaten their lunch. To be fair, I never saw much of a home for Scytheguard, too squishy for a slight damage output increase, but they'd never survive to deal the damage (outside Veil and hope charges). Shieldguard interest me for their staying power though.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Tthey can do work, but yeah, you got lucky with some of that. I don't see a place for scytheguard anymore - Skorpekhs have really eaten their lunch. To be fair, I never saw much of a home for Scytheguard, too squishy for a slight damage output increase, but they'd never survive to deal the damage (outside Veil and hope charges). Shieldguard interest me for their staying power though.

They were here for only one thing, after playing some games with a very agressive (pure) Thousand Sons player, i found myself needing something to have counter charge power to make the Daemon Princes think twice about charging everywhere.
After that, i knew i would be playing against Invictor Warsuits, and of all of our roster, Scytheguard was actually quite point efficient to down them in one turn so i decided to try them.

But i agree, skorpekh will probably be better for that kind of job, needing less support, having more mobility.

If it's true that all the FW weapons have dropped mostly to,zero, then my Heat Cannon Sentry Pylons went from 70(base) + 75(heat Cannon) = 145, to 80!!!!!!!

My 9 Sentry Pylons are gonna be VERY happy!!!
Very sad to see my Scarabs going up to 15, but that added wound and auto wounds are worth it!!

3x3 Sentry Pylons = 720
3x9 Scarabs = 405
Destroyer Lord with Pylactary, Warcythe, and Necroscarab Casket = 120
3x3 Tomb Spyders with Fabricator claw, Gloom Prisim, Particle Beamer = 630
Total: 1775!!! That's DOWN from 2406.
The list I've been building for years just dropped by 631 points!
There's room for 20 Warriors!!!
That bring it to 1995!!!!

I think Tesla will become 3 hit on non-modified roll of 6 in our codex seeing how in the Admech FAQ all the similars rules for Electro Priests and Taser weapon were changed.