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 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

Well would hold off to codex before investing heavily. For example naked wraiths is now NOT the way to go as for FREE you can give them S6 pistol with zero drawbacks so right now there's literally no reason whatsoever to not give them pistols. But is that same in codex is another thing...

Tesla, tesla, tesla unless codex changes.

Lychguard. Again codex might change.

As it is necron troops aren't that hot and 9th ed doesn't look to be kind so if you have 15 immortals might not need to buy more. I'm looking at zero troop army myself.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

We are close enough to to codex that I would say waiting on anything that has options.

Tesla has been the best option since the 5th edition dex and they were first unveiled, but it's very likely they are moving to unmodified 6's. Even then, it's likely that Tesla will still be better unless Gauss gets some kind of boost.

I would wait on Lychguard v Praetorians. There is a very good chance they change and something like the Praetorians getting Dynasty keywords would change the dynamic.

Wraiths naked have usually been the best bet, though right now the Pistols are free... That being said I'm not sure if that is going to be the same until the next dex.

We are likely less than 2 months out from the new Dex, maybe even sooner.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

Welcome aboard

Others have covered it, but basically hold off on making big decisions. None of the units or weapon options you mentioned are unplayably bad at the moment, so you won't doom yourself if you build Gauss Immortals or Praetorians, but generally at the moment Tesla is king for sure. That may well change though, as we're likely to lose our ability to proc testa on 5s.

Lyhcguard and Praetorians are both good in their own ways. Either is a good choice, but with weapons I'd go Shield and sword for lychguard, melee weapon and pistol for Praetorians (which is a shame, staff looks cooler but it's not as good).

I'd just try to hold out for Indomitus and then see what the codex brings though, as so much of what we are/how we play is about to change. Even the DDA, while still great on paper, may end up drifting out of competitive lists down the line.

If you're not too bothered about having the ultra winzors stuff, then just build whatever you think looks cool.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

How is Tesla better than Gauss?

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

Tesla generates 3 hits for every 6+ to hit. This can be improved with My Will Be Done to make it so your Tesla gets 3 hits for every 5 or 6 rolled, which means you get a ton of shots from a unit of Tesla Immortals.

it's also an Assault 2 weapon, while Gauss in Rapid Fire 1, so you always get maximum shots with Tesla.

Gauss isn't bad, but it's harder to get into its ideal range. As Aza'Gorod said though, Gauss is interesting on Tomb Blades since they can move up quickly enough to get into rapid fire range quite easily. We have no idea if either of these weapons will get buffed or nerfed in the new codex though. it's likely that tesla wording will be changed from 6+ to natural 6s, which will lower the output potential significantly.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Tesla generates 3 hits for every 6+ to hit. This can be improved with My Will Be Done to make it so your Tesla gets 3 hits for every 5 or 6 rolled, which means you get a ton of shots from a unit of Tesla Immortals.

it's also an Assault 2 weapon, while Gauss in Rapid Fire 1, so you always get maximum shots with Tesla.

Gauss isn't bad, but it's harder to get into its ideal range. As Aza'Gorod said though, Gauss is interesting on Tomb Blades since they can move up quickly enough to get into rapid fire range quite easily. We have no idea if either of these weapons will get buffed or nerfed in the new codex though. it's likely that tesla wording will be changed from 6+ to natural 6s, which will lower the output potential significantly.

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.
Another thing for Tesla, right now with the overlord from Indomitus you can MWBD Tesla Tomb Blades. It's a LOT of shots. Tesla will probably change in our next codex though, it may be playable only for a month.

Shaelinith wrote:

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.

Unless a royal warden says they can fallback and shoot.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:


I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

2+ save targets(without 3++) aren't that common. Very niche target and if you don't face it you are hosed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

More damage output. With same max range. Tesla loses to gauss only vs 2+ target within 12". Very narrow niche. And the difference there isn't earth shattering.

Tesla is somehow better above 12" but inside 12" Gauss is better with strong AP-2. (vs T5 3+ save bike for example) You want to be good in short range with Necrons to score or board control. If you keep distance you'll lose to faster armies. For long range shooting there are other weapons.

Not to mention that sometimes 2+ save models with re-rollable 1 save with laugh at your tesla. Gauss have better psychological impact.

Not somehow. It's fairly obvious why and even inside 12" you need 2+ save target for gauss to win. 3+ is border line, 4+ and gauss is just lol whether you are 12" or 24"

We have plenty of guns that deal with 2+ save models far better than Gauss blasters, but very few guns have the general utility of tesla, which is amazing versus most targets.

10 tesla immortals can delete 30 boys, while still also putting a sizable dent in a unit of intercessors. It's also pretty effective at chipping wounds off vehicles due to Str 5 and weight of dice.

3 Immortals in 12" range of SM tactical:

Tesla - 6 shoots - 6 hits - 4 wounds - 1,33 unsaved
Gauss - 6 shoots - 4 hits - 2,66 wounds - 1,77 unsaved
or I've made a mistake somwhere here

PS.
vs. SM Scout Squad in 12:
Tesla - 6 shoots - 6 hits - 4 wounds - 2 unsaved
Gaus - 6 shots - 4 hits - 2,66 wounds - 2,21 unsaved

10 Immortals vs 30 Ork Boyz in cover, in 12":
Tesla - 20 shoots - 20 hits - 13,33 wounds - 8,88 unsaved
Gaus - 20 shoots - 13,33 hits - 8,88 wounds - 8,88 unsaved

tneva82 wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:


I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

2+ save targets(without 3++) aren't that common. Very niche target and if you don't face it you are hosed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

More damage output. With same max range. Tesla loses to gauss only vs 2+ target within 12". Very narrow niche. And the difference there isn't earth shattering.

I play space marine and Tau players mostly and I did say I agree Tesla is better but Gauss has times when I prefer it.

Gauss Vs primaris marines within 12

24 shots, 15.84 hits, 10.45 wounds, 6.89 unsaved

Tesla vs primaris
24 shots, 24 hits (this part isn't quite exact but no idea how to go about it) 15.84 wounds, 5.22 unsaved

I admit its a small margin, but to me its noticeable when I've played against Tau and Space marines as in this case its the difference between 1 less primaris marine shooting at you.
under current rules Tomb blades are locked out of most of the buffs we could give them and i always play tesla immortals with MWBD (for now anyway)

 p5freak wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.

Unless a royal warden says they can fallback and shoot.

It will not be easy for a Royal Warden to follow Tomb Blades. Possible but difficult. I'll probably go the safe route with Tesla.

One thing not mentioned, Tesla overwatch was (is) far superior to Gauss. All those only 6's to hit became 3 hits. Under 8th edition, it wasn't that unusual for a 10 man squad of immortals to get charged in melee combat by a small already depleted assault unit or a lone character and through a combination of tesla overwatch and multiple rounds of combat /reanimation to actually emerge victorious grinding the opponent down.

The 9th changes to overwatch no longer being ubiquitous is actually a reasonable nerf to tesla. If they change the modifier of +1 to being only natural 6's for the tesla effect then difference between gauss and tesla will diminish further. Which is a shame for me because I own 30 tesla immortals and 0 gauss immortals ...

Just do what I'll do with my 40 tesla immorts... chop the gun and replace w 3dprint gauss, quickpainted. If tesla goes to unmodded 6s, it's mathematically dead. Only 5+ made it worth the fragility of the models, with 4+ on one unit if done right. I can see tesla bikes if they can reliably be buffed, but 6+ tesla means time to switch to gauss across the board.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Just do what I'll do with my 40 tesla immorts... chop the gun and replace w 3dprint gauss, quickpainted. If tesla goes to unmodded 6s, it's mathematically dead. Only 5+ made it worth the fragility of the models, with 4+ on one unit if done right. I can see tesla bikes if they can reliably be buffed, but 6+ tesla means time to switch to gauss across the board.

If Tesla dies, Immortals don't switch to Gauss. We just stop taking Immortals. Tesla on natural 6s is still better than Gauss.

Depending on timing for certain transport options, I can find happy homes for gauss immortals outside of 5man engineer units if I can drop them from transports or slide them in off a board edge within 12. They do work vs our primary antagonist, the primaris.

I'm just gonn aleave my 20 Tesla Immortals as backfield objective squads, possibly in units of 5 to stay hidden

I am thinking 2 squads tesla, 1 squad gauss to move midfield.

What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

I think this is worth testing, but I'm not willing to build ghost arks until I see the new book lol.

10 mans suck at living, 10 mans inside a 14 wound QS transport not so much.

How has everyone been doing with the points changes for 9th? Doesn't seem like we got hit as hard as some of the other ones (Drukhari, GSC, Tyranids, Orks), but definitely got hit harder than SM. What units have worked best in 9th? I know we're getting a new Codex soon, but what's worked so far?

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

Unless codex changes I would just take more boats rather than warriors. 140 pts vs 120 pts, same amount of wounds, better T, quantum shield, fly, faster, same guns...why take warriors? RP is joke so no concern and 9th ed favours small units and solo models over 10 models anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

Unless codex changes I would just take more boats rather than warriors. 140 pts vs 120 pts, same amount of wounds, better T, quantum shield, fly, faster, same guns...why take warriors? RP is joke so no concern and 9th ed favours small units and solo models over 10 models anyway.

We need to bring at least 3 troops for a battalion anyway though, and Immortals got expensive relative to the wounds they bring to the table.. they're gonna die to a stiff breeze as objective holders. Warriors go in the Arks and slap an extra ten wounds on the objective, that crucially can't be shot at until the ark is popped. I wouldn't go for more than three units, but since we need troops anyway, and we're bringing the Arks anyway, it seems like the simple answer.

I'm looking at not bringing any troops for that tax...And I would rather just have 2nd ark on the objective than 10 warriors. That's 20 tough wounds rather than 10 tough wounds and 10 wounds that are about as survivable as paper weight and is better in otherway around.

tneva82 wrote:
I'm looking at not bringing any troops for that tax...And I would rather just have 2nd ark on the objective than 10 warriors. That's 20 tough wounds rather than 10 tough wounds and 10 wounds that are about as survivable as paper weight and is better in otherway around.

14 wounds on a Ghost Ark fwiw.

You also need to have an infantry unit for each transport now, though that shouldn't be too much of an issue if you're bringing destroyers and characters. I still think ob sec is more valuable than you're implying.

Ob sec doesn't come into play with warriors inside ark either...

And 14W? Even better for ark then.

And yeah need infantry but enough of those in necrons. Can't afford THAT many arks anyway.

That strategy is going to force you to body block anything with ObSec from getting within 3" of an objective otherwise they'll just steal it from you.