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Asymmetric wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
That comparison fails as scarabs aren't really melee unit but rather objective holder/screen/nuisance.

I don't see the difference, that is what wraiths are. You get what you pay for in points you put into the unit.

Neither unit is a melee blender

Uuk 6 wraiths will blender squad of primaris marines. Scarabs don't.

I'd hardly call slightly more than 5 primaris dead especially impressive. Its a couple more marines than 18 scarabs would. I like wraiths, I just think most people overinflate there offensive power.

Now Skorpehk Destroyers will obliterate units on the charge. They just have glaring issue of medicore durability / speed for there relative cost.

Eh you can't take 18 scarab squads. And nearly twice the scarabs

And that's dead primaris squad. So where 18 scarab unit(can"t take) fails to clear objective wraiths do.

Oh and skorpek unit kills 4.3 primaris. Good but less than those wraitH

tneva82 wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
That comparison fails as scarabs aren't really melee unit but rather objective holder/screen/nuisance.

I don't see the difference, that is what wraiths are. You get what you pay for in points you put into the unit.

Neither unit is a melee blender

Uuk 6 wraiths will blender squad of primaris marines. Scarabs don't.

I'd hardly call slightly more than 5 primaris dead especially impressive. Its a couple more marines than 18 scarabs would. I like wraiths, I just think most people overinflate there offensive power.

Now Skorpehk Destroyers will obliterate units on the charge. They just have glaring issue of medicore durability / speed for there relative cost.

Eh you can't take 18 scarab squads. And nearly twice the scarabs

And that's dead primaris squad. So where 18 scarab unit(can"t take) fails to clear objective wraiths do.

Oh and skorpek unit kills 4.3 primaris. Good but less than those wraitH

No gak, when you take more points on units, then they kill more! Did you know a single Imperator Titan also kills more than 6 wraiths?

Of course I'm not going to compare a 90 point unit of 6 scarabs to a 270 point unit of 6 wraiths and expect them to the be same, I've already said you get what you pay for. You can take 18 scarabs. You just take them in separate units. You can take more than 3 Skorpehk destroyers, in multiple units (and i would be very surprised if you couldn't take more in the codex)

Let’s keep it chill guys, no need to get angry.

Keep these instruction pics going, I’m enjoying seeing the unit tweaks.

Triarch Stalker repackaged stat changes and weapon profiles
Triarch Stalker: +2 wounds, Brackets 7+, 4-6, 1-3
Particle Shredder: 24'' Heavy 8, S6, -1, 2
Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon: 30'' Heavy 6, S7, -3, d3
Heat Ray:
Dispersed 12'' Heavy 2d6, S5, -1, 1
Focused 24'' Heavy 2, S8, -4, d6
Massive forelimbs: Melee, User, -2, 3

I'm thinking those are no longer TL Heavy Gauss Cannons but souped up TL Gauss Cannons

gibbindefs wrote:
Triarch Stalker repackaged stat changes and weapon profiles
Triarch Stalker: +2 wounds, Brackets 7+, 4-6, 1-3
Particle Shredder: 24'' Heavy 8, S6, -1, 2
Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon: 30'' Heavy 6, S7, -3, d3
Heat Ray:
Dispersered 12'' Heavy 2d6, S5, -1, 1
Focused 24'' Heavy 2, S8, -4, d6
Massive forelimbs: Melee, User, -2, 3

So....the Heavy Gauss Cannon is basically a d3 damage autocannon now....hmm...
The buff to the Forelimbs is great....
I'm not sure how i feel about this. lol

Looks like an upgrade

I saw this on Reddit and thought I'd post it here, not sure how accurate the numbers are though

"Full squad of 6 old rules vs primaris lieutenant

Old D3 shots so on average 12, 7.9 hits, 3.95 W 3.2 unsaved

New 1 shot so 6, 3 hits 1.98 W 1.6 unsaved which turns into 4.9 (1.6~ x3)

New with MWBD as that works on them now

6 shots, 3.96 hits 2.6 W 2.1 Unsaved
6.5 W

Also regarding CC


Old

18 A, 11.8 hits, 7.8 W, 5.1 unsaved 10.2 W

New

24 A 12 hits, 7.92 W, 5.2 unsaved 10.4 W

With MWBD

24 A, 15.84 Hits, 10.45 W, 6.8 unsaved 13.6 W"

So the new gun is better against tougher models with more wounds but worse against larger groups with the loss of possible 3 shots from blast


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gojiratoho wrote:
I'm thinking those are no longer TL Heavy Gauss Cannons but souped up TL Gauss Cannons

Yeah thats how it feels to me as well

 Gojiratoho wrote:
I'm thinking those are no longer TL Heavy Gauss Cannons but souped up TL Gauss Cannons

Agreed, I think that's just become a twin gauss cannon.

New stalker is a bit of a beast tbh, depending on points of course. I can see good arguments for all three guns, the extra wounds are nice and his melee got a chunky buff.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Gojiratoho wrote:
I'm thinking those are no longer TL Heavy Gauss Cannons but souped up TL Gauss Cannons

Agreed, I think that's just become a twin gauss cannon.

New stalker is a bit of a beast tbh, depending on points of course. I can see good arguments for all three guns, the extra wounds are nice and his melee got a chunky buff.

It could just become it's own thing like a "Twin Gauss Pulser" or whatever. Though if these are new stats for Gauss Cannons that is pretty great. Though, it would make the enmitic weapon stats on the Lokhust even more insane by comparison.

I'm glad my weapons are magnetized, though I think I'll use the Gauss and Heat Ray option more often.

 iGuy91 wrote:

gibbindefs wrote:
Triarch Stalker repackaged stat changes and weapon profiles
Triarch Stalker: +2 wounds, Brackets 7+, 4-6, 1-3
Particle Shredder: 24'' Heavy 8, S6, -1, 2
Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon: 30'' Heavy 6, S7, -3, d3
Heat Ray:
Dispersered 12'' Heavy 2d6, S5, -1, 1
Focused 24'' Heavy 2, S8, -4, d6
Massive forelimbs: Melee, User, -2, 3

So....the Heavy Gauss Cannon is basically a d3 damage autocannon now....hmm...
The buff to the Forelimbs is great....
I'm not sure how i feel about this. lol

Autycannon does not have ap-3.

Slightly worse than heat ray vs t8 at over 12" range. Better vs everything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
Looks like an upgrade

Against anything but t8. Vs that new profile worse than old


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

I'm glad my weapons are magnetized, though I think I'll use the Gauss and Heat Ray option more often.

Same. Necrons are lacking on at, particularly mobile. Stalker is one of the few we have

So, I’m not a competitive guy so I don’t know what makes things good. I’m curious why the tweaks to the Stalker makes it good, because I thought previously it was considered a terrible option. The Heat Ray is the same as before I think, just longer range on the dispersed option.

9th buffed it already witth no -1 to hit for moving and shooting in melee. Also game decided on midfield objeatives sort range issue and makes mobile at more valuable.

First 2 games of 9th stalker been mvp

tneva82 wrote:

Same. Necrons are lacking on at, particularly mobile. Stalker is one of the few we have

Necrons dont lack AT.

Destroyers with gauss cannons and extermination protocols
Heavy destroyers with heavy gauss cannons
Stalker with heat ray/heavy gauss cannon
Sentry pylon with focussed death ray/gauss exterminator
DDA with doomsday cannon
Monolith with particle whip
Canoptek tomb sentinel with exile cannon
Indomitus overlord with tachyon arrow
Doom scythe with death ray

Quite the opposite, necrons have a lot of AT, maybe even the most of all factions.

tneva82 wrote:
9th buffed it already witth no -1 to hit for moving and shooting in melee. Also game decided on midfield objeatives sort range issue and makes mobile at more valuable.

First 2 games of 9th stalker been mvp

Ah cool. I’ve always liked the look of them but never considered them before. But maybe I’ll pick up a pair with the Silent King. Another question is why you’d use them over the DDA? That thing seems to have a lot more firepower, though I guess it’s random shots.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
9th buffed it already witth no -1 to hit for moving and shooting in melee. Also game decided on midfield objeatives sort range issue and makes mobile at more valuable.

First 2 games of 9th stalker been mvp

Ah cool. I’ve always liked the look of them but never considered them before. But maybe I’ll pick up a pair with the Silent King. Another question is why you’d use them over the DDA? That thing seems to have a lot more firepower, though I guess it’s random shots.

A) 125 pts vs 180
B) mobility. Enemy hides from los, dda either shoots st -2 dd3 or doesn't shoot at all.

tneva82 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
9th buffed it already witth no -1 to hit for moving and shooting in melee. Also game decided on midfield objeatives sort range issue and makes mobile at more valuable.

First 2 games of 9th stalker been mvp

Ah cool. I’ve always liked the look of them but never considered them before. But maybe I’ll pick up a pair with the Silent King. Another question is why you’d use them over the DDA? That thing seems to have a lot more firepower, though I guess it’s random shots.

A) 125 pts vs 180
B) mobility. Enemy hides from los, dda either shoots st -2 dd3 or doesn't shoot at all.

Okay cool that makes sense. Since I want to do the Silent King’s dudes it would make sense to use them so knowing they’re good I’m keen.

Disadvantage of the triarch stalker and praetorians is that they can’t be buffed and don’t benefit from dynasty codes,

Despite that I think both units are awesome and I’m looking to clean the dust off both!

I’d imagine the Silent King will be able to buff both units. Even if not I’m keen for them, the extra attack and 2 dmg on the Praetorians is delicious.

With all the hints at rules (from the GW about Cryptek abilities) and box rules changing EVERY unit in some fashion I think the Necron Codex will not be an update but a complete ground up build.

As disheartening as it is with our 8th codex the future is completely up in the air. I for one am excited, I want lists for Necrons to not look the same as 8th at all.

With a front row seat with the launch of 9th I like to think we can't be a complete wash against the Marines on the same box. Bit who knows.

I’m excited too. Just a shame we have to wait for October, and most likely end of October at that :(

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’d imagine the Silent King will be able to buff both units. Even if not I’m keen for them, the extra attack and 2 dmg on the Praetorians is delicious.

Yes I’ll be running both for sure,
2-3 stalkers will be a very strong choice, the targeting bonus they give other units more than makes up for a lack of dynasty tactics imo.

Pyrothem wrote:
With all the hints at rules (from the GW about Cryptek abilities) and box rules changing EVERY unit in some fashion I think the Necron Codex will not be an update but a complete ground up build.

As disheartening as it is with our 8th codex the future is completely up in the air. I for one am excited, I want lists for Necrons to not look the same as 8th at all.

Generally codexes aren"t small upgrades but overhaul. As gw isn't aiming for balanced game but instead changing imbalance its appoach that works best. Complete overhaul gets people buy more units to replace old ones

Pyrothem wrote:
With all the hints at rules (from the GW about Cryptek abilities) and box rules changing EVERY unit in some fashion I think the Necron Codex will not be an update but a complete ground up build.

As disheartening as it is with our 8th codex the future is completely up in the air. I for one am excited, I want lists for Necrons to not look the same as 8th at all.

Well we already know we're getting a new army rule called "Protocols". Probably similar to Space Marine doctrines, if not it's possibly what AdMech does. Will certainly help to have more army rules so we don't just live or die on how effective RP is.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
With all the hints at rules (from the GW about Cryptek abilities) and box rules changing EVERY unit in some fashion I think the Necron Codex will not be an update but a complete ground up build.

As disheartening as it is with our 8th codex the future is completely up in the air. I for one am excited, I want lists for Necrons to not look the same as 8th at all.

Well we already know we're getting a new army rule called "Protocols". Probably similar to Space Marine doctrines, if not it's possibly what AdMech does. Will certainly help to have more army rules so we don't just live or die on how effective RP is.

I think it's going to be closer to canticles where you pick one of the protocols and then select one of the directives, but you likely have to cycle to a new Protocol each turn.

As often rp is a pointless rule due to overkill any other army bonuses will be great.

3rd game and stalker keeps doing okay though this time it was partially good luck due to rolling. However on bonus opponent fixated on it and sent meganobz to clear it out.

Praetorians did what I asked. Fast fly unit so I was able to reach to opponents objective turn 2 and clear it with overkill(10 praetorians vs 10 grots was foregone conclusion). Killyness test wasn't done but speed was handy. Could have done more but took risk for sake of fun and tried to kill Ghaz but failed(21 attacks, 2+ to hit, 5+ to wound, he needs to fail 4 save with CP reroll available. Odds were not in my favour) and they got wiped in return. Could have optimized but since game was by then in the bag(39 vs 3 vp's) went for risky move to maximize gap and give something exciting.

Wraiths with 2++ on objective were MVP tanking ghaz for 3 combat rounds and alone scoring 12 vp's plus helping at least 2 more if not even more(not sure did I ever need that unit to get 15 vp's on primary). I'm more and more convinced this stratagem won't survive codex. But nihilikh gets mayb best dynasty code in return. I think I can live with obsec wraiths etc in return ;-)

Reapers failed but that was partially due to bad luck(18 shots vs meganobz and only 1 past save? 3+, 3+, 4+...Average is 4 which is dead and spare wound) and getting to dodge killa kans then. Did kill 2 of those though which was 4 vp so not too bad I guess.

Maybe it's just smaller games but getting reapers to range has been surprisingly easy. They aren't priority targets and when enemy engage front rank these are ready in rear to unleash S5 -2 shots.

Place 3 skorpekh lords in a ghost ark, use the deceiver to redeploy the ark, disembark, move, and the lords have a 2" charge.

What do you think are the must include units in a crusade?
(rules as they are now, no leaked codex rules or units)

I always have a weird feeling not to take full size units with necrons, but in a crusade it is hard to include full size units.