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Yeah.

Really the only thing that bugs me is the Reanimator being almost twice what it should be in points for what it does. Its so useless, its not even stronger than a spyder yet costs nearly 2x one and its ability makes it a bullet-magnet so its gonna die first all the time.
If it was 60-65pts it would be useful purely for the distraction alone lol.

RP not being great for multiwound models is a bummer but its not the end of the world. Most didnt get it anyway because of the low unit body count. Trading virtually never getting it for a measily ~4% chance on 3W models is fine by me, ive seen DG get lucky as hell and roll 8 5+'s on 9-10 dice before so its bound to happen for us once in awhile lol

Nothing else in the codex makes me go "wtf?" - thats a rarity to me.

One bonus about the Reanimator is that costs are one thing that GW does change through an edition. So we can cross fingers that if real play and testing does prove that it dies too fast and is overcosted, then GW might bring the points cost for them down.

It's better than when a unit is clearly broken mechanically and can't be easily fixed just be pushing its points up or down.

Voss wrote:

- Nihilakh is every army going forward, seriously what were they thinking.

Nihilakh loses out to custom dynasty. You can get the same ObSec rule and combine it with a different awakening that will actually benefit the army. Like the free pre-battle move of up to 6", which affects the entire army.

Of all the dynasties, there is zero reason to take Nihilakh unless you somehow intend to camp your deployment zone all game, and I don't think that's going to work in 9th.

I missed the 6" free move. So really its that. But the point overall still stands. Your always going to want the obsec, and probably the free move lol.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly "solid" should be what we always hope for with each codex release. Overpowered just means there's an easy-win trick that often makes them less fun to play as and against and often means nerfs will be the first thing to come from rebalancing each year.

Underpowered is, equally, less fun since then its a harder challenge than normal and can often make the army very hyper reliant on its good builds at detriment to other units (as opposed to an overpowered book where you're not as dependent on the power builds, but they do net you less power).



Solid is the ideal. Solid with most units having a clear niche and being viable in decent builds with a lot of build variety - that's the perfect spot you want an army to be.

Not too powerful; not too weak and with lots of choices.

Broadly agree with that. The ideal is obviously very good but not OP, but failing that I'll take a decent and diversified codex. My issue with this one is how hyper restrictive it is. To a fault.

Not really sure what makes you say it's restrictive. Like 80% of units in the Codex range from very good to useable.

Ophidian Destroyers can't compete with Wraiths, and making the Monolith a LoW was unnecessary. Flayed Ones are sad in a corner, and most unique characters are not that great. That's about it. Lokhust Destroyers got dunked on the hardest but are still useable.

Destroyers got fething wrecked...

 Overread wrote:
One bonus about the Reanimator is that costs are one thing that GW does change through an edition. So we can cross fingers that if real play and testing does prove that it dies too fast and is overcosted, then GW might bring the points cost for them down.

It's better than when a unit is clearly broken mechanically and can't be easily fixed just be pushing its points up or down.

Agreed.

Its stats/abilities/weapons are fine. Its cost is not. So easily remedied in the future.

You cannot get obj secured and a free 6-inch move. Royal Vassal doesn't allow another pick am I right?

One of the generic trait options (in the same list as Royal Vassals) is the ObSec for every unit trait.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Voss wrote:

- Nihilakh is every army going forward, seriously what were they thinking.

Nihilakh loses out to custom dynasty. You can get the same ObSec rule and combine it with a different awakening that will actually benefit the army. Like the free pre-battle move of up to 6", which affects the entire army.

Of all the dynasties, there is zero reason to take Nihilakh unless you somehow intend to camp your deployment zone all game, and I don't think that's going to work in 9th.

I missed the 6" free move. So really its that. But the point overall still stands. Your always going to want the obsec, and probably the free move lol.

It's an ability from AoS, so it's not without precedence, but I feel like there was supposed to be a rider in there that they left out on accident. My hunch is it should only include core units, which would keep wraiths and destroyers from using it for first turn charges. It would still be an awesome ability, just not as bonkers as it is now.

There is a good reason to take Nihilakh, alpha is a problem in 9th ed, and if your running silver tide the weapons you'll be worried about are low AP high volume. Being able to ignore -1 ap from bolt rifles and the like can blunt alot of the alpha that matters against crons. You can make that much better by combining it with eternal guardians, which can give your entire army light cover, making your warrior blobs 3+/5+++ while ignoring ap -1. Alpha wins games, so if you can blunt alpha, you can dunk armies that rely on it.

as for the order of protocols, here is my thinking:

Order for the protocols assuming a shooty cron list fighting a melee army:

Eternal Guardian - alpha is a problem in 9th ed, with first turn player having a 56% win rate. Blunting alpha if you go second is awesome. Worst case scenario, you go first and it does nothing, but you still get the first turn advantage.

Hungry void - in a fight against a melee army their going to be on you like white on rice by their second turn, getting a boosting the lethality of your screens by adding Str or some ap just increases the cost for them.

Conquering tyrant - Now that they made it past your screens and bad touched a bunch of your units it's time to fall back and shoot.

Sudden storm - Time is getting short and you'll want to squirrel away some extra VP, so being able to raise the banners and shoot or a bit of extra movement to get on objectives are both good.

Undying legions - not clutch in this case, but might help you avoid getting last minute killed off of objectives.

Against ranged opponents:

Eternal guardian - alpha is a problem in 9th ed, with first turn player having a 56% win rate. Blunting alpha if you go second is awesome. Worst case scenario, you go first and it does nothing, but you still get the first turn advantage.

undying legions - Shooty armies rely on inflicting damage in the first couple of rounds to give them lasting advantages, us being tougher makes their lives rougher.

Sudden storm - Extra movement can help close our range gap, and/or shoot while performing actions that get us VP.

Vengeful stars - we are in close range firefights now, add a little extra punch by ignoring cover or getting some extra ap.

Hungry void or conquering tyrant - hungry void if you think that by turn 5 you can take them in melee, or conquering tyrant to boost the auras of the remaining characters.

Are DoomStalkers worth it now?

The goonhammer article outlines the following points;

The weapons are blast.

They can be buffed +1 to hit by a technomancer within 6 inches, bringing them to 3+.

They gain living metal (most Necron units do).

They have something like the Tau, "For the Greater Good"; the article writer is very vague about this. I mean getting <x> random d6 shots overwatch attempts and then needing a 6 sounds meh? We don't know if its better than this.

They have a gimmick strat that if one of your characters dies, the DS get +1 to hit against the "killer" unit (assuming they survive and are in LoS).

Acehilator wrote:
Not really sure what makes you say it's restrictive. Like 80% of units in the Codex range from very good to useable.

Ophidian Destroyers can't compete with Wraiths, and making the Monolith a LoW was unnecessary. Flayed Ones are sad in a corner, and most unique characters are not that great. That's about it. Lokhust Destroyers got dunked on the hardest but are still useable.

It's not about the units. It's about the way we are allowed to use them.

Warlord, Core keyword, Command Protocols, 1 c'tan per deatch, lack of weapon loadout customisation, buffing, auras, still only 2 troops, too many specific strats, Monolith LoW, and many more examples of how the codex is clearly built from the ground up to restrict player choices to promote a desired playstyle

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
Are DoomStalkers worth it now?

The goonhammer article outlines the following points;

Spoiler:

The weapons are blast.

They can be buffed +1 to hit by a technomancer within 6 inches, bringing them to 3+.

They gain living metal (most Necron units do).

They have something like the Tau, "For the Greater Good"; the article writer is very vague about this. I mean getting <x> random d6 shots overwatch attempts and then needing a 6 sounds meh? We don't know if its better than this.

They have a gimmick strat that if one of your characters dies, the DS get +1 to hit against the "killer" unit (assuming they survive and are in LoS).

They are basically competing against DDAs, and it's a fairly close comparison. I think the doom stalkers will require more support to be successful, which, all other things being equal, will make them the lesser choice. That's a hunch though, it could go the other way with clusters of them supporting each other and controlling fire lanes.

The real question is how much AT will we need, if we end up in a meta where vehicles and knight list are rare we might not see many of them.

Doomstalkers are also individually cheaper than a DDA, are they not? It is true that they'll need support from a technomancer but you're likely to have one anyway, as they'll provide Rites to your Warriors and such.

Looking at our other canopteks I'm really interested in Spyders. 60-65 points per model, coming in units of three, and five attacks each. Assuming the leaked profile does not change they should also have the option for going up to S8!

I would run them with a control node for +1 to hit, and you would have the option of the +1d3 attack arkana as well. However the phylacterine hive has a ton of value for Spyders so that is likely the go-to if you're using a single technomancer.

Don't know if its worth holding my breath for the FW Tomb Stalker to be competitively viable seeing as how its been what, 10 years since the game allowed that thing to live on a board for more than a round?

Agreed. I was also thinking how many DoomStalker would we need due to the meta-warping eradicators and nerfs on many SM tanks, who's going to bring much armor? However, given blast and their profile these things are not totally useless against Elite Infantry. I mean T5 W3 models are thing now, 4 wound bikes, 3 wound Termies, Custodes etc etc.

I think the custom trait that allows you to 6 inch move after knowing who goes first teams up really well with these. If you don't get first move, put them behind terrain, if you go first you can move them 6 inch and they still count as having not moved giving you 3d6 Str10 Ap-5 shots at 48 inches(assuming 3). That could really scare elite infantry from squatting objectives.

At 140 points each its not like losing a repulsor executioner or something. They'll give up the secondary, but outside of SM lists, most factions can't seem to avoid giving up some secondaries.

How does the Nightbringer interact with Tau drones? Can they intercept his wounds?

Drakmord wrote:


Assuming the leaked profile does not change they should also have the option for going up to S8!

its not an option, their base melee weapons are str8 -3 D2 with 5 attacks.

I have a pdf of the codex if anyone wants to know anything


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Punisher wrote:
How does the Nightbringer interact with Tau drones? Can they intercept his wounds?

his wounds from what?

Khornatedemon wrote:

Drakmord wrote:


Assuming the leaked profile does not change they should also have the option for going up to S8!

its not an option, their base melee weapons are str8 -3 D2 with 5 attacks.

I have a pdf of the codex if anyone wants to know anything

Good to know -- thank you! I was worried they made it part of the fabricator claw array, for some reason.

Drakmord wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:

Drakmord wrote:


Assuming the leaked profile does not change they should also have the option for going up to S8!

its not an option, their base melee weapons are str8 -3 D2 with 5 attacks.

I have a pdf of the codex if anyone wants to know anything

Good to know -- thank you! I was worried they made it part of the fabricator claw array, for some reason.

the array is just the repair ability for +5 pts

Khornatedemon wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Punisher wrote:
How does the Nightbringer interact with Tau drones? Can they intercept his wounds?

his wounds from what?

From his melee attacks

Cynista wrote:

It's not about the units. It's about the way we are allowed to use them.

Warlord, Core keyword, Command Protocols, 1 c'tan per deatch, lack of weapon loadout customisation, buffing, auras, still only 2 troops, too many specific strats, Monolith LoW, and many more examples of how the codex is clearly built from the ground up to restrict player choices to promote a desired playstyle

Lack of loadout customization isn't new to 9th ed, and if anything both of our troops having alternate loadouts means we are better off this edition than we have been before. The restrictions on HQ are not isolated to us, marines got the same, and every codex going forward will get the same. They want HQ to be awesome, but not spamable, and I think that's the right call after the hero hammer shenanigans of 8th ed.

Monolith as a LoW is not a 100% win but the monolith was the OG super heavy, and people in this very thread had often wished for a return to those days. Frankly, they needed to do something with it, it had been as free to take as a fart in a thunderstorm, and just collected dust because it was awkwardly positioned as a not quite super heavy. Bringing it up to the level of knights seems as good a direction as any, it makes the model a better match for it's fluff and it now fills a role that used to be forgeworld exclusive for necrons (or hot garbage I suppose). I wish LoW were not so awkward to take, and maybe that's something we'll see change in the future of the edition.

C'Tan got the buff of a lifetime, I mean no unit changed more from edition to edition than they did. It goes back to GW wanting centerpiece units to be awesome to use but not spamable. The things that make the C'Tan awesome would be a real balance headache if you could take as many as you wanted.

Of course the codex is built in a manner that reinforces they way GW wants them to play, that's kind of the point of having multiple factions in a game like this. With that said we are much better off than many of the other factions, we can build CC, we can build ranged, we can focus on vehicles, we can focus on infantry, most armies in 40k don't get those choices. It would be like going to a MtG forum and complaining you feel pigeon holed into ramp and big mosters playing monogreen.

 Punisher wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Punisher wrote:
How does the Nightbringer interact with Tau drones? Can they intercept his wounds?

his wounds from what?

From his melee attacks

thats probably going to need an FAQ. saviour protocols says it redirects. nightbringer says you cant use ignore wounds. The wound isnt ignored, its just moved to a different target

More than likely redirect is not equal to ignore wound mechanic.
GW could rule it otherwise but doesnt sound like the same mechanic to me at all

I have a question about the wording on the Szarekhan specific relic. I could be being really dumb and missing how it works, but this seems like an error to me:

While a friendly Szarekhan unit is within 9” of the bearer, that unit benefits from the selected directive of your army’s active command protocol while it is within 9” of a friendly Szarekhan Character model instead of 6”.

I assume what it’s saying, just in a really clunky way, is you can get protocol benefits within 9” of the bearer instead of 6”. Just that last bit about being within 9” of a friendly character is throwing me off.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I have a question about the wording on the Szarekhan specific relic. I could be being really dumb and missing how it works, but this seems like an error to me:

While a friendly Szarekhan unit is within 9” of the bearer, that unit benefits from the selected directive of your army’s active command protocol while it is within 9” of a friendly Szarekhan Character model instead of 6”.

I assume what it’s saying, just in a really clunky way, is you can get protocol benefits within 9” of the bearer instead of 6”. Just that last bit about being within 9” of a friendly character is throwing me off.

yes pretty much allows the protocol buff to extend to 9" and core units get both buffs of the protocol

Khornatedemon wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I have a question about the wording on the Szarekhan specific relic. I could be being really dumb and missing how it works, but this seems like an error to me:

While a friendly Szarekhan unit is within 9” of the bearer, that unit benefits from the selected directive of your army’s active command protocol while it is within 9” of a friendly Szarekhan Character model instead of 6”.

I assume what it’s saying, just in a really clunky way, is you can get protocol benefits within 9” of the bearer instead of 6”. Just that last bit about being within 9” of a friendly character is throwing me off.

yes pretty much allows the protocol buff to extend to 9" and core units get both buffs of the protocol

It seems pretty good to me with that second buff, especially with the Warlord trait to pick only 4 protocols but can assign 1 to 2 turns.

With all the rules in hand, I gotta say my initial impression is that we are a very powerful book. I don't think we quite break into the top 4 armies tier (Though the Nightbringer may help quite a bit) it is much, much improved.

We have several powerhouse units, stratagems and rules, with lots of flavor back. What's most important is there really does appear to be a ton of ways to play the army, and a lot of ways that are strong.

That being said, there are some real baffling choices. The Reanimator nerfs, our hardcore core restriction and a few other things are really head scratchers.

The Core restrictions makes sense to me- at least, I can see what the basic logic is: Necron and sane. So no canopteks, destroyers, or flayed ones (or triarchs, because <dynasty&gt. That may not be satisfying from a gameplay perspective, but it seems straightforward.

The Reanimator-- got nothing. It just costs too much, and has to compete with a pile of choices that are just better.

Monolith- mostly the same. Its just priced too high, and extra costs on top for the LoW thing.

Other niggles- Immortals with Tesla. These aren't as good, and don't have the support gauss does. But they cost more. Seems a reaction to their old rules which isn't appropriate.

Ophydians are competing with both Skorpekhs and Wraiths and losing against both, imo. They should have had a different loadout with a clear niche. And not so absurdly squishy.

Command protocols are annoyingly fiddly, especially how little some of them are. Nothing about that makes sense to me.

The ObSec dynasty trait is just... wrong to me. Its a very metagame ability that feels out of place.

But _overall_ its a much, much better army. There are real choices to be made, with very few things that are crazy overpowered and quite a few things brought back into relevance (or at least not feeling utterly stupid for bringing them along).

I know this is a bit of a trademarked and annoying thing to say haha, but it feels a bit wrong to worry about how powerful we are in current meta. Going into a new edition, the other factions are possibly seeing their own big changes and nerfs and rebalance so we kinda have to wait and see.

But I’m glad initial reactions seem generally positive regardless, and being solid but not OP is hopefully going to be the direction all the other factions go so we can have a smaller distance between power.

I’m very pleased with 9th so far and these codex have me very positive (besides a few gripes like monolith costing CP and not getting dynasty benefits).

So, just skimming through some of the leaks, Silvertide is sort of viable? I have always loved the idea of silvertide. I am just sort of sad that the Monolith is now a LOW...