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Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, just skimming through some of the leaks, Silvertide is sort of viable? I have always loved the idea of silvertide. I am just sort of sad that the Monolith is now a LOW...

Silvertide may seem to be the only viable option if you want a competitive list.
My impression is that everything else is garbage.

Yeah I’d love to do silver tide too. 3 big blocks of 20 warriors backed up by a Reanimator for each unit as the core. Seems potentially pretty viable now I’d say.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, just skimming through some of the leaks, Silvertide is sort of viable? I have always loved the idea of silvertide. I am just sort of sad that the Monolith is now a LOW...

Silvertide may seem to be the only viable option if you want a competitive list.
My impression is that everything else is garbage.

I think you can lean into a melee heavy army now too.

Or just lean on the silent king and what he does.

Silver Tide lists with Szeras are a huge trap BTW since you are effectively paying over half of your army for mere antinfantry fire and a huge big weapons target that will lose his weapons and auras as he gets wounded

My hope was that a Destroyer-heavy ''Destroyer Cult'' army would a be viable and fluffy option.
But I guess it's not.

So thinking about how are we going to build necron armies,

Q:What characters should you take?
You need a noble to get your command protocols, and CCB seems like the way to go there since he is tougher, has more wounds, has a permanent THP. He can also have a rezorb, which has found a purpose after an edition of being a trap. The only downside is he is limited to a 5++ instead of a 4++. I like the double cryptek for one slot, since they bring a lot of utility, and we are going to be short on characters since all but one of your characters is an HQ choice. We need characters to perform actions for mission objectives, and the list of arcana can include some really interesting effects. Third could be empty, might be a beatstick, or could be a lord for a second rez orb.

Q: Multi rez orb?
Rez orbs give us 7th ed RP for a round, so Having one rez orb seems like a good investment, but if one is good is two better? It would mean taking a lokhust destroyer lord or a lord.

Q: How much silver tide?
It seems fair to say that silver tide is probably our blessed play mode, but how many is enough. The new night scythe has some epic clown car abilities with 20 passenger slots, so do you just put 20 reapers in there, and drop them where they are needed? There is also the VoD as a way to move 20 man blobs around. Beyond the initial blob, I think a 5 man of immortals with tesla is a no brainer, just to punish the enemy grouping up. The third seems really open ended, Another 20 man to crush the objective game, a 10 man in a GA to add some mobility and support the primary blob, or are immortals good enough to take?

Q: Are Immortals worth it?
I know they will get used because they are the cheapest troop option, and people spending elsewhere will probably skimp on troop choices. I also think the 1 cp strat means you'll want a few units with tesla for mortal wound support, and grabbing that in a troop tax seems attractive. At T5 and a 3+/5+++, they are basically 8th ed plague marines, but with better guns. Overall it seems like they a back field objective camper, but I can't imagine a scenario where I think "man I'm glad I had those gauss blasters". Maybe against custodes, for the one or two turns until they get charged and wiped.

Q: Which C'Tan?
I feel like we can eliminate void dragon, he's not bad, but the other two are game changing. Deceiver is merely "ok" in CC, but deployment mind games can be a wonderful force multiplier, and you get to do it after you know who is going first. His specific ability is swingy but can skew high. Nightbringer might be the best beatstick in the game, he can level any of the primarchs in a round or two, and with some fight first/last support he can eliminate units that would be a threat to him. Someone called him a win more piece, and I understand the sentiment, but I feel like he forces opponents to react to him, and thus is more like a soft control piece. Opponents can stay away from him, or gather enough beef to take him out, and both are things we can take advantage of.

Unpopular opinions here I know, but I feel like most of the Cryptek options are a trap. The best units in the codex by far are Deathmarks, Doomstalkers, Immortals and (surprisingly) Spyders. Overlords are a decent HQ finally, though I might run a Command Barge instead. C'tan are the hardest thing to judge, but could be extra powerful. Especially the Nightbringer (even that Gaze of Death is spicy). I'd avoid warriors in general tbh. 13 points and they die faster than they did before without the 5+ invuln. Res orb might be worth it now, Doom Scythes are so tough to judge, since they look good on paper, but knowing the difficulties of positioning flyers I know not to jump on them as quickly. Monolith is too expensive to be competitive really.

 wuestenfux wrote:
My hope was that a Destroyer-heavy ''Destroyer Cult'' army would a be viable and fluffy option.
But I guess it's not.

This is way premature. Skorpehks are one of the best units in the codex. They're quite strong. A melee themed list leans hard on them and the nightbringer, and it's a solid looking option.

I'd avoid warriors in general tbh. 13 points and they die faster than they did before without the 5+ invuln.

Do they get a reroll of 1 for the RP and with a Reanimator they have a +4 for the RP ?
Not a bad prospect.

Yeah it looks to me like warriors are a winner of the new codex, especially with reanimators following them around (trying to keep hidden of course).

Reanimators are gak, why are people still bringing up his RP synergies which are non-existent the moment you delete a 110 pts unit that has T5 and 6W with a mere 3+ save?

Prismatic Dimensional Breech seems totally broken.
Put night scythe and 10 lychguard in reserve.
Turn 2 nightscythe arrives anywhere on the board
Lychguard use PDB to appear next it, 2" from enemy.
Guaranteed charge

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Reanimators are gak, why are people still bringing up his RP synergies which are non-existent the moment you delete a 110 pts unit that has T5 and 6W with a mere 3+ save?

Agreed. Bring more warriors instead. Or a cryptek which can reanimate D3 warriors.

What are the restrictions for that Cryptek reanimation ability? Can it only work on Core units? Can it restore multi-wound models?

If there's no restriction on unit type and it can bring back multi-wound models at full health, then destroyers still have some staying power, despite the nerf to RP.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What are the restrictions for that Cryptek reanimation ability? Can it only work on Core units? Can it restore multi-wound models?

If there's no restriction on unit type and it can bring back multi-wound models at full health, then destroyers still have some staying power, despite the nerf to RP.

Only works on core units, so no Destroyers, Canoptek or Praetorians. Crypteks feel like a trap choice tbh.

Darsath wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What are the restrictions for that Cryptek reanimation ability? Can it only work on Core units? Can it restore multi-wound models?

If there's no restriction on unit type and it can bring back multi-wound models at full health, then destroyers still have some staying power, despite the nerf to RP.

Only works on core units, so no Destroyers, Canoptek or Praetorians. Crypteks feel like a trap choice tbh.

Well crap. I guess GW really doesn't want us to use destroyers. Maybe too many marine players got upset that they were such good damage dealers, idk.
If I designed the codex, I would have introduced a destroyer cryptek to compensate.

If people want to make Warriors work, then there's a couple ways to try. First, you'd need a lot of them. Probably 40-60 in 2000 points. Also, you should elect to go second, and choose the Immovable Phalanx tradition for the custom dynasties. Similar to the Eternal Guardian command protocol, it doesn't check if you moved last battle round, instead it gives you the benefit if you haven't moved THIS battle round. So go second, and you'll get this even if you're advancing up the board. Get +1 to your armour save vs Damage 1 weapons for a 3+ save on all your guys. Use Eternal Guardian on turn 2 for light cover too so you can get as many dudes into rapid fire range, then just focus on damage. Might not be the most competitive way of playing, but could be a lot of fun. Of course, it's easy to counter this strategy. By having the opponent make you go first. Also, doesn't work turn 1 if you choose the Relentlessly Expansionist circumstance of awakening so beware of that.

 Grimgold wrote:
It would be like going to a MtG forum and complaining you feel pigeon holed into ramp and big mosters playing monogreen.

Well no, it wouldn't be. Basically nothing you said is a valid argument against us being a heavily restricted faction, which we are. And Marines don't have the same restrictions, not even close.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What are the restrictions for that Cryptek reanimation ability? Can it only work on Core units? Can it restore multi-wound models?

If there's no restriction on unit type and it can bring back multi-wound models at full health, then destroyers still have some staying power, despite the nerf to RP.

Only works on core units, so no Destroyers, Canoptek or Praetorians. Crypteks feel like a trap choice tbh.

Well crap. I guess GW really doesn't want us to use destroyers. Maybe too many marine players got upset that they were such good damage dealers, idk.
If I designed the codex, I would have introduced a destroyer cryptek to compensate.

Yeah, this is one of the things that really irked me.

I don’t know if people care much about patrol scale games, but this was a fluffy list I was thinking up. It’s 1 of many small repair patrols who are going around the tomb world seeing to priority repairs. Just a rough idea so far using power, I’ll do points later, as I might be able to squeeze more or less in:


EDIT: Changed the list to be more fluffy:

- Technomancer w/ cloak (Warlord)
- 2x Cryptothralls
- 3x Wraiths
- 3x Wraiths
- 1x Spyder
- 6x Scarab Swarms

Actually, Technomancers could be pretty good. Never spotted that they also have a second aura that gives all Canoptek units within 6" +1 to hit. Also their cloak can heal any Dynasty unit for d3 wounds, and they can return models to 2 units for 1 cp. Maybe take the Cryptek Arcana that gives a selected unit cover against attacks over 12" and they might be worth it to help survive getting into range. Also, the +1 to hit could help mitigate the 4+ BS of the Doomstalker if they're within 6".

Yeah Technomancer seems like a really good choice.

EDIT: oh wait, you can either repair things, or give Canoptek units +1 to hit by the seem of it. Still seems like a good character though.

Also, the Chronomancer's Entropic Lance is quite funny as hidden Anti-tank on a character. 18" Inch range, 1 shot, Strength 8, Ap -3, but Damage of D3+3 is quite surprising.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I’d love to do silver tide too. 3 big blocks of 20 warriors backed up by a Reanimator for each unit as the core. Seems potentially pretty viable now I’d say.

pretty sure statistically you'd be better off with 80 warriors for a silvertide than 60+3 reanimators.

Reanimators dont do diddly offensivewise, and cost as much as ~9 warriors. They have to be the reason a ton of warriors stood back up to be worth bringing and due to their statline theyre just gonna soak up the random heavy shot and blow up immediately.

Hence why earlier i was saying they need to be around half their price. They simply dont do anything outside of that +1 to RP, and being that expensive it offsets the bonus by quite a bit.
Literally the only thing about the new codex ive seen so far that really bothers me is this beautiful walker's pricetag.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I’d love to do silver tide too. 3 big blocks of 20 warriors backed up by a Reanimator for each unit as the core. Seems potentially pretty viable now I’d say.

pretty sure statistically you'd be better off with 80 warriors for a silvertide than 60+3 reanimators.

Reanimators dont do diddly offensivewise, and cost as much as ~9 warriors. They have to be the reason a ton of warriors stood back up to be worth bringing and due to their statline theyre just gonna soak up the random heavy shot and blow up immediately.

Hence why earlier i was saying they need to be around half their price. They simply dont do anything outside of that +1 to RP, and being that expensive it offsets the bonus by quite a bit.
Literally the only thing about the new codex ive seen so far that really bothers me is this beautiful walker's pricetag.

I do agree, I really want to use them, and keep trying to kid myself that they’ll be able to hide behind stuff. But yeah, 110pts is just way too high for a weak, single target buffing unit. :/

if it was an aura i could sorta understand its pricetag, but it would still be one hell of a bulletmagnet.
Non-character buffbots are difficult to price.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Reanimators are gak, why are people still bringing up his RP synergies which are non-existent the moment you delete a 110 pts unit that has T5 and 6W with a mere 3+ save?

Personaly it’s out of a vague sense of desperation in that I bought enough spare destroyers in early 8th to build a pure destroyer army and whilst I’m looking forwards to adding some melee to run them again, the improbability of making their durability gimmick actually function is painful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if it was an aura i could sorta understand its pricetag, but it would still be one hell of a bulletmagnet.
Non-character buffbots are difficult to price.

If it’s a tall unit that barely does anything but buff, give it an invulnerable! Doesn’t seem like a hard bit of design to me...

 Sasori wrote:
With all the rules in hand, I gotta say my initial impression is that we are a very powerful book. I don't think we quite break into the top 4 armies tier (Though the Nightbringer may help quite a bit) it is much, much improved.

We have several powerhouse units, stratagems and rules, with lots of flavor back. What's most important is there really does appear to be a ton of ways to play the army, and a lot of ways that are strong.

That being said, there are some real baffling choices. The Reanimator nerfs, our hardcore core restriction and a few other things are really head scratchers.

Dude, the nightbringer is insane. That guy will straight up wreck certain armies alone.

Whats cool is he reminds me of his 3rd edition incarnation where he just flew around creating tempests and melting infantry with massive phalanx of warriors all around him. I actually really want to take all 80 of my warriors 15 flayed ones and a monolith and see how is does.

Dude, the nightbringer is insane. That guy will straight up wreck certain armies alone.

I'm sure it will get nerfed asap.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, just skimming through some of the leaks, Silvertide is sort of viable? I have always loved the idea of silvertide. I am just sort of sad that the Monolith is now a LOW...

Silvertide may seem to be the only viable option if you want a competitive list.
My impression is that everything else is garbage.

Nah, doomscythes are insane now. Sure they went up 50 points but they gained +50% range on both weapons, +50% in shots on the deathray along with +20% strenth and about +40% in damage.

Also spyders are the necron talos now. Units of 3 near a technomancer for WS3+ and the plus d3 attacks per spider on the unit is insane with their new profile. make them novokh and for 1cp add another attack and they get aother ap -1 pushing them to -4. Oh and you can heroically intervein with them for 1cp lol. A cronomancer can also give them the 5++ they lack as well. That unit is such a sand box of potential its nuts. Custom dynahsty trait them for a turn one 14"+d6" move out the gait lol...