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In 5th edition when necrons had the 4th edition codex there where some lists that did well with 2 monoliths and some warriors. You could do some neat trix like body blocking and grab warriors out of combat. Nice to hear an old clasic is back!

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait so, are we saying monoliths may actually be useful?

Yes, you were the one who was constantly dwelling on the CP cost and thought that it was a deal-breaker. (You were not alone)

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait so, are we saying monoliths may actually be useful?

Running a single Monolith is likely fine depending on your army composition. 2-3 would be funny and likely automatically win in certain match-ups but the cost is very high. A balanced list suits the Monolith better, I think.

(I miss the Apoc formation where they could tri-point the enemy army and turn a whole slew of abilities off!)

One Monolith is costed similarly to the Nightbringer and their durability is comparable; if someone can kill the Nightbringer in a single turn, through Necrodermis, they can almost surely do significant damage to the Monolith. If you have ONE, you can babysit it -- an invuln from a Chronomancer, d3 wounds from a Technomancer, and an FCA or three from some Spyders. So forth and so on.

The CP cost to field it sucks but CP are there to be spent. A lot of Necron armies will be spending 2-3 CP on extra WLTs or relics anyway, so if you feel your Monolith list can make due without those, your battle plan should be about the same.

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, are you guys looking at Flayers or Reapers on Warriors?

If it matters, I'm thinking specifically for footslogging Warriors - no Ghost Arks!

I think I will always equip with reapers. They wont ever be footslogging though. They will be outflanking/coming in from a monolith/ or delivered with veil.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait so, are we saying monoliths may actually be useful?

At it's current price between 360-380. It is Amazing. It gives you all kinds of deployment shenanigans too. I love it.

This makes me very happy!

i see a mix of flayers and reapers being viable.
Not every warrior is going to feasibly get in the enemy's face, so some flayers is wise.
But, reapers are clearly stronger when they can fire.

I'm wondering if that custom dynasty for +1S on rapid fire weapons within 12" is viable. S5 reapers or S6 flayers.

1 quick question about the Monolith, which weapons seem to be the better option?

EDIT: Also, how do the auxiliary detachment restrictions work again? Do they not gain the dynasty keyword? Or just not benefit from the dynasty special rules? I.e. can you still target it in game with abilities that would only affect Dynasty units?

I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

punisher357 wrote:
I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

Honestly very few things want to be in combat with the monolith. I think the flux arcs are a goog choice though. The deathrays are hard to pass up though with 3+d3 damage. Just gotta bring something nasty in front of it. Lychgaurd or canoptek wraiths/spiders.

Flayers are S4 base and there is no way to get another +1S, Isolationists is the only option.

Sadly there is no Dynastic Tradition that pairs really well with Isolationists. Rapid Fire at max range when standing still sounds nice, but with the objectives based nature of 9th bonuses for standing still are generally speaking not that desireable, imho (and two of our most prominent AT options are already saddled with this drawback). One could always go with Obsec.

I am wondering about the future prelevalence of Heavy Intercessors. Their price point is just 100% insane for their statline. It's pretty easy to build a SM list with nothing but Gravis armor/bikes, where the only T4 infantry models left are 2-3 characters (Lieutnant, Apothecary, maybe a Librarian).

That would reduce the value of S4 weapons of both the ranged and melee variety by a lot.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i see a mix of flayers and reapers being viable.
Not every warrior is going to feasibly get in the enemy's face, so some flayers is wise.
But, reapers are clearly stronger when they can fire.

I'm wondering if that custom dynasty for +1S on rapid fire weapons within 12" is viable. S5 reapers or S6 flayers.

Unfortunately they changed the reaper to assault 2 range 12.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Acehilator wrote:
Flayers are S4 base and there is no way to get another +1S, Isolationists is the only option.

Sadly there is no Dynastic Tradition that pairs really well with Isolationists. Rapid Fire at max range when standing still sounds nice, but with the objectives based nature of 9th bonuses for standing still are generally speaking not that desireable, imho (and two of our most prominent AT options are already saddled with this drawback). One could always go with Obsec.

I am wondering about the future prelevalence of Heavy Intercessors. Their price point is just 100% insane for their statline. It's pretty easy to build a SM list with nothing but Gravis armor/bikes, where the only T4 infantry models left are 2-3 characters (Lieutnant, Apothecary, maybe a Librarian).

That would reduce the value of S4 weapons of both the ranged and melee variety by a lot.

My thoughts exactly. Str 4 is the new str 3.

 Xenomancers wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

Honestly very few things want to be in combat with the monolith. I think the flux arcs are a goog choice though. The deathrays are hard to pass up though with 3+d3 damage. Just gotta bring something nasty in front of it. Lychgaurd or canoptek wraiths/spiders.

Very few things want to be in combat with a monolith when it's full strength. If you get bogged down with chaff, you'll want the gauss arcs. Tarpitting the monolith would be an easy way to hurt your opponent.
That's a lot of points not firing.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i see a mix of flayers and reapers being viable.
Not every warrior is going to feasibly get in the enemy's face, so some flayers is wise.
But, reapers are clearly stronger when they can fire.

I'm wondering if that custom dynasty for +1S on rapid fire weapons within 12" is viable. S5 reapers or S6 flayers.

Unfortunately they changed the reaper to assault 2 range 12.

Huh...i missed that.
That actually is awesome as hell to me. Means the Veil of Darkness to insta-drop 20 Reapers gets 40 shots instead of 20 the turn they drop.
I'll take that over a few S6 shots any day (S6 on 20 vs S5 on 40 lol)

Yeah that is a huge buff to the reapers. Using them would be a lot easier if that's the case, and its good thing I built 20 of them.

punisher357 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

Honestly very few things want to be in combat with the monolith. I think the flux arcs are a goog choice though. The deathrays are hard to pass up though with 3+d3 damage. Just gotta bring something nasty in front of it. Lychgaurd or canoptek wraiths/spiders.

Very few things want to be in combat with a monolith when it's full strength. If you get bogged down with chaff, you'll want the gauss arcs. Tarpitting the monolith would be an easy way to hurt your opponent.
That's a lot of points not firing.

In 9th, can’t vehicles just back out of melee and still shoot now? I thought that was one of the big changes to vehicles.

Can you use the Strange Echoes stratagem to replace/gain any C'tan power listed on the page, including the unique ones?

Having both the Deceiver and Nightbringer powers would make quite the character-killer.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

Honestly very few things want to be in combat with the monolith. I think the flux arcs are a goog choice though. The deathrays are hard to pass up though with 3+d3 damage. Just gotta bring something nasty in front of it. Lychgaurd or canoptek wraiths/spiders.

Very few things want to be in combat with a monolith when it's full strength. If you get bogged down with chaff, you'll want the gauss arcs. Tarpitting the monolith would be an easy way to hurt your opponent.
That's a lot of points not firing.

In 9th, can’t vehicles just back out of melee and still shoot now? I thought that was one of the big changes to vehicles.

Yes/no

Yes: Titanic vehicles/monsters can fall back and shoot.
No: Regular vehicles can shoot into combat (cannot fire blast, -1 to hit otherwise) they are engaged with but not fall back and shoot.

They can shoot into the melee they are in, but only if the weapon is not Blast.

T2 Reaper bomb?

Overlord (Phaeron, Thrall of the Silent King, Veil of Darkness)
2x 20 Warriors with Reapers
Nightscythe out of reserves, ports in the other group of Warriors with Prismatic Dimensional Breach

It's 3CP, but tasty. Probably just run this as Mephrit. The group coming in with Prismatic will benefit from the AP -1 while in half range bonus.

So it's 80 shots hitting on 2+, half of them at AP -3.

Imagine 20 warriors moving 6 inches before the game due to Implacable expansionist. Whenever they reanimate the Necron player reanimatess one model at a time! That means each model can be placed closer and closer to the objective, out of line of sight, or out of range of the next unit's weapon. That short-range gauss reaper can get closer with each successful RP!

Do you remember flayed ones? Each Flayed One reanimated is closer to a 1st turn charge and wrapping units in close combat is easy because of RP! Use the resurrection orb to bring back 3 to 4 models which easily equals around 6 inches closer to the enemy for a first turn charge!

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
I don't think the monolith will be very useful. It lost the "Fly" keyword so no landing on terrain. Plus, it's very good melee attack degrades into uncertainty. It's going to be very tough to deepstrike this onto the board with its size.
I know everyone is excited about the deathrays, but remember, its particle whip can't fire into close combat. If it degrades you'll be wishing you had the gauss arcs.

Honestly very few things want to be in combat with the monolith. I think the flux arcs are a goog choice though. The deathrays are hard to pass up though with 3+d3 damage. Just gotta bring something nasty in front of it. Lychgaurd or canoptek wraiths/spiders.

Very few things want to be in combat with a monolith when it's full strength. If you get bogged down with chaff, you'll want the gauss arcs. Tarpitting the monolith would be an easy way to hurt your opponent.
That's a lot of points not firing.

In 9th, can’t vehicles just back out of melee and still shoot now? I thought that was one of the big changes to vehicles.

Yes/no

Yes: Titanic vehicles/monsters can fall back and shoot.
No: Regular vehicles can shoot into combat (cannot fire blast, -1 to hit otherwise) they are engaged with but not fall back and shoot.

I must have forgotten that titanic can fallback and shoot. That makes a big difference

 CKO wrote:
Imagine 20 warriors moving 6 inches before the game due to Implacable expansionist. Whenever they reanimate the Necron player reanimatess one model at a time! That means each model can be placed closer and closer to the objective, out of line of sight, or out of range of the next unit's weapon. That short-range gauss reaper can get closer with each successful RP!

Do you remember flayed ones? Each Flayed One reanimated is closer to a 1st turn charge and wrapping units in close combat is easy because of RP! Use the resurrection orb to bring back 3 to 4 models which easily equals around 6 inches closer to the enemy for a first turn charge!

With the new moral rules, don't you mean every two flayed ones is an inch closer? Or you risk the entire chain comes unraveling like a cheap sweater.

Despite this, this is gamey to a point I won't be doing.

its a core rule. Its also why all the various "can fall back and shoot/charge" rules got faq'd to only mention they can charge.
Also really pisses off Orks because the nauts got hit with that faq too, but they arent titanic.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
its 10/12/15.
For some reason the 2nd kill is only worth 2 pts lol

10/15 if you　play matched, 10/12/15 if you play gt2020.

Is there summary of dynasty specific stratagems, relics and warlord traits in new codex?

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i see a mix of flayers and reapers being viable.
Not every warrior is going to feasibly get in the enemy's face, so some flayers is wise.
But, reapers are clearly stronger when they can fire.

I'm wondering if that custom dynasty for +1S on rapid fire weapons within 12" is viable. S5 reapers or S6 flayers.

Unfortunately they changed the reaper to assault 2 range 12.

Huh...i missed that.
That actually is awesome as hell to me. Means the Veil of Darkness to insta-drop 20 Reapers gets 40 shots instead of 20 the turn they drop.
I'll take that over a few S6 shots any day (S6 on 20 vs S5 on 40 lol)

Initially I saw this as a great opeining move that only sautek could pull off. Now you are free to use ANY dyansty to pull it off. That is the good news. There really is no bad news (unless you are sautek). I'm just gonna roll with Szarekhan now as it has a good all arounder. There are some really good custom trait combos though.

wait, gauss reapers are assault 2? where's this at?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Acehilator wrote:
They can shoot into the melee they are in, but only if the weapon is not Blast.

T2 Reaper bomb?

Overlord (Phaeron, Thrall of the Silent King, Veil of Darkness)
2x 20 Warriors with Reapers
Nightscythe out of reserves, ports in the other group of Warriors with Prismatic Dimensional Breach

It's 3CP, but tasty. Probably just run this as Mephrit. The group coming in with Prismatic will benefit from the AP -1 while in half range bonus.

So it's 80 shots hitting on 2+, half of them at AP -3.

Monolith, drop a squad out the front, use the one strat to drop another, use the third strat to drop yet another..... veil in another squad.

In the new codex.
Theres images floating around of the entire codex. Theyre 12" assault2 now, which is massive.

torblind wrote:

 CKO wrote:
Imagine 20 warriors moving 6 inches before the game due to Implacable expansionist. Whenever they reanimate the Necron player reanimatess one model at a time! That means each model can be placed closer and closer to the objective, out of line of sight, or out of range of the next unit's weapon. That short-range gauss reaper can get closer with each successful RP!

Do you remember flayed ones? Each Flayed One reanimated is closer to a 1st turn charge and wrapping units in close combat is easy because of RP! Use the resurrection orb to bring back 3 to 4 models which easily equals around 6 inches closer to the enemy for a first turn charge!

With the new moral rules, don't you mean every two flayed ones is an inch closer? Or you risk the entire chain comes unraveling like a cheap sweater.

Despite this, this is gamey to a point I won't be doing.

It clearly says select one of those models to be reanimated and it then gives us the limitations on where we can place them, this is why it was nerfed for multi-wound models.

Hey do the C'tan benefit from the command protocols? I know they don't count for spreading them but if they are within 6" of another character do they benefit?

It seems weird as they specifically don't get a lot of buffs but I can't find where they are restricted from receiving command protocols. It makes the protocol of the undying legion very attractive if they can gain 2 wounds that turn making them even harder to put down and the extra movement protocol would be nice as well.

They don't have the Command Protocol rule on their datasheets, so no, they don't benefit from them.

Acehilator wrote:
They don't have the Command Protocol rule on their datasheets, so no, they don't benefit from them.

Didn't even notice that was an ability lol. Guess I subconsciously just looped that ability in with reanimation protocols.

Thanks