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Everyone is talking about the Nightbringer, but thoughts on the Transcendent C'tan?

- It went up by 75 points and is now 270
- Went down to STR 6
- Still has a 4+ save unlike the others
- Gained 1 wound and 1 attack
- The personality traits are mostly similar with a couple changes and 1 new one, I'd say they are a bit better overall
- Can only use one power unless you have Cosmic Tyrant

I really would like to use one since I spent lockdown converting and painting one up but.... ehhhhh. Especially as C'tan are only 1 per detachment now

Cynista wrote:
Everyone is talking about the Nightbringer, but thoughts on the Transcendent C'tan?

- It went up by 75 points and is now 270
- Went down to STR 6
- Still has a 4+ save unlike the others
- Gained 1 wound and 1 attack
- The personality traits are mostly similar with a couple changes and 1 new one, I'd say they are a bit better overall
- Can only use one power unless you have Cosmic Tyrant

I really would like to use one since I spent lockdown converting and painting one up but.... ehhhhh. Especially as C'tan are only 1 per detachment now

The general verdict is that you get significantly more bang for your buck for 75 pts with either the Nightbringer or Void Dragon. If you want to bring a C'tan you should just free up the 75 points, as either of those will more than make up that in value to the army.

I’m stoked lychguard got core treatment. How did their bodyguard mechanic shake out?

Bikes being core is also just fantastic.

Is there a link for points?

Point Changes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11CfDHTAnK2JxFJIu2eXWuNep8MzUkUxh/view

Is 3x3 Spyders a crazy idea?

Crazy like a fox, bring some technomancers to buff, and enjoy your fluffy tombworld repair team.

Is it worth chucking the guns on the spyders now? 12 shots each is nothing to sneeze at, but maybe it makes them cost too much. Floating up getting buffed by a Technomancer though means a unit of 3 is getting 3+ to hit on 36 shots.

So I'm pretty new to Necrons but picked up the Indomitus half because the models are great, and I always love a new army/codex to dissect.

In that spirit and using almost nothing from Indomitus here's a quick first hash at a theory crafted list based around those sweet, juicy Spyders and their Tech Bois:

Custom Dynasty: Nihilakh ObSec + Relentlessly Expansionist

CCB - Orb of Eternity
Technomancer - Cloak, Fail-Safe Overcharger
Technomancer - Control Node, Phylacterine Hive, Thrall of the Silent King
(actually kind of unsure how to split up the buffs between the two Crypteks, but I know I want all of those things)

20 Warriors
10 Warriors

Night Bringer

5x Wraiths

3x Spyders
3x Spyders

Ghost Ark
Ghost Ark (possibly swap for Night Scythe?)

What do the Overlords think? Haven't gone over new points with a fine tooth comb yet but that should fit into 2000 with a few points to spare

 CKO wrote:
Imagine 20 warriors moving 6 inches before the game due to Implacable expansionist. Whenever they reanimate the Necron player reanimatess one model at a time! That means each model can be placed closer and closer to the objective, out of line of sight, or out of range of the next unit's weapon. That short-range gauss reaper can get closer with each successful RP!

Do you remember flayed ones? Each Flayed One reanimated is closer to a 1st turn charge and wrapping units in close combat is easy because of RP! Use the resurrection orb to bring back 3 to 4 models which easily equals around 6 inches closer to the enemy for a first turn charge!

I'm pretty disappointed that they forget to limit this. I remember a very feel bad game against pox walkers with their old rules where they inched their way onto objectives and into charge range of stuff. Needs to be changed in an errata.


I'm also mildly annoyed that Reapers are just better than Flayers now. There are some abilities which buff rapid fire weapons to balance this out a little at least.

I love that Spyder's are now top picks.
Talk about the underdog biting back.

Wait, are regular Destroyers really 70pts now?

So much for them being priced based on their getting little value from RPs.

55, +15 if you take enmitic whatever or the heavy if you take lokhust destroyer. Heavy destroyer squadron is 70 pts but that has no regular versions in it.

tneva82 wrote:
55, +15 if you take enmitic whatever or the heavy if you take lokhust destroyer. Heavy destroyer squadron is 70 pts but that has no regular versions in it.

Oh, so the normal Gauss Destroyers are still 55?

Correct. At least it reads so on the photo of page I'm staring at now so either it is 55 or I'm looking at rather good quality fake ;-)

1-6 destroyers plus optional heavy destroyer(so max unit size is 7 if you want to expose yourself for blasts)

tneva82 wrote:
Correct. At least it reads so on the photo of page I'm staring at now so either it is 55 or I'm looking at rather good quality fake ;-)

1-6 destroyers plus optional heavy destroyer(so max unit size is 7 if you want to expose yourself for blasts)

Phew. Okay, thanks.

thing about RP allowing you to "creep" is since they let us do it at various points in the game...how could you prevent the creep? Unless you're charging the "closer to the enemy" doesnt work, as you could easily get shafted and not legally be allowed to put any down even if the enemy isnt near you at all.
Even if they put a limit saying "RP'd models this phase cannot be placed more than 2" away from where the unit was at the start of the phase" it would still enable creep, and not even really slow it down all that much.

I'm currently considering something along these lines:



(I still need to confirm points on a few things, so I imagine I'll mess around with it a bit, but this is the overall idea)

It's about as close as I can get to Silver Tide with my current collection. Also just wanted to try out some of the new stuff.

am i reading the Overlord datasheet right that you cant swap out the Phaseblade cleaver thing w/o also getting rid of the Arrow?
That is incredibly annoying....

 astro_nomicon wrote:
So I'm pretty new to Necrons but picked up the Indomitus half because the models are great, and I always love a new army/codex to dissect.

In that spirit and using almost nothing from Indomitus here's a quick first hash at a theory crafted list based around those sweet, juicy Spyders and their Tech Bois:

Custom Dynasty: Nihilakh ObSec + Relentlessly Expansionist

CCB - Orb of Eternity
Technomancer - Cloak, Fail-Safe Overcharger
Technomancer - Control Node, Phylacterine Hive, Thrall of the Silent King
(actually kind of unsure how to split up the buffs between the two Crypteks, but I know I want all of those things)

20 Warriors
10 Warriors

Night Bringer

5x Wraiths

3x Spyders
3x Spyders

Ghost Ark
Ghost Ark (possibly swap for Night Scythe?)

What do the Overlords think? Haven't gone over new points with a fine tooth comb yet but that should fit into 2000 with a few points to spare

You know you gotta need to make your CCB warlord because of royal court rule?
You need rarified nobility stratagem to make a cryptek your warlord with a noble present in your list.

The Warlord rules in the Necron codex seem a little excessive. I can understand the Silent King having to be your warlord if included, and Phaerons taking precedence if available.

However, not being allowed to make a Destroyer Lord your Warlord if you have an Overlord, and not being able to make a Cryptek your warlord unless you have no Nobles and also requiring a stratagem on top of that just seems unnecessary.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Is it worth chucking the guns on the spyders now? 12 shots each is nothing to sneeze at, but maybe it makes them cost too much. Floating up getting buffed by a Technomancer though means a unit of 3 is getting 3+ to hit on 36 shots.

I think the cost is too high on the gun.

 vipoid wrote:
I'm currently considering something along these lines:

Spoiler:

Overlord w/ Res. Orb
Destroyer Lord w/ Staff of Light (Voltaic Staff), Res. Orb
Chronomancer
Psychomancer w/ Mortal Wound arcana

15 Warriors (Gauss)
15 Warriors (Gauss)
10 Immortals (Gauss)
10 Immortals (Gauss)

Triarch Stalker

5 Destroyers (Gauss)
5 Wraiths
10 Triarch Praetorians

~2000pts

(I still need to confirm points on a few things, so I imagine I'll mess around with it a bit, but this is the overall idea)

It's about as close as I can get to Silver Tide with my current collection. Also just wanted to try out some of the new stuff.

As long as you don't hit a vehicle list it will work but even an old school transport heavy list will be a hard lose for it.

With the dumb idea if Eradicators and keeping them cheap maybe you won't see any vehicles on the table top.

Pyrothem wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I'm currently considering something along these lines:

Spoiler:

Overlord w/ Res. Orb
Destroyer Lord w/ Staff of Light (Voltaic Staff), Res. Orb
Chronomancer
Psychomancer w/ Mortal Wound arcana

15 Warriors (Gauss)
15 Warriors (Gauss)
10 Immortals (Gauss)
10 Immortals (Gauss)

Triarch Stalker

5 Destroyers (Gauss)
5 Wraiths
10 Triarch Praetorians

~2000pts

(I still need to confirm points on a few things, so I imagine I'll mess around with it a bit, but this is the overall idea)

It's about as close as I can get to Silver Tide with my current collection. Also just wanted to try out some of the new stuff.

As long as you don't hit a vehicle list it will work but even an old school transport heavy list will be a hard lose for it.

With the dumb idea if Eradicators and keeping them cheap maybe you won't see any vehicles on the table top.

Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to tackle vehicles, unfortunately.

The thing is, I've always been much more into infantry than vehicles, so I'm really not eager to invest in stuff like Doomsday Arks.

I could maybe try to fit in some Heavy Destroyers, but I'm not sure they'd be much better than regular Destroyers, really.

I am really not sure about the spyders. Their stats look great...until you realize they have 4+ WS/BS and no invuln. RP might as well not be there, it'll never, ever, ever activate.

Offensively, 3 of them kill 5 MEQ in melee, and that's their ideal target with the S8 -3 2 damage profile they have. Against gravis, they will do well to kill 2 models. That's not exactly tearing it up. They do better with a technomancer giving them +1 to hit and +d3 attacks, but that's adding another 100 points to do that, which isn't efficient.

Defensively, they evaporate to any sort of dedicated anti-tank. Again, you can give them a 5++ from a chronomancer, but that's another 80 points.

If you could take units of 5 the synergies might become worth it, but at units of 3, I just don't think they are.

If you compare them to say chaos spawn, they come off looking severely gimped. Or to Triarchs, for that matter. 7 Triarchs cost 5 points less than 3 spiders, move much faster, have significant shooting, and do more damage in melee against every profile except T6-T7, where they do almost the same . They have 4 less wounds and 1 less T, but they also have a RP that can actually work, and high damage shots are wasted against them, so they are actually more resilient against the majority of stuff.

Even Lychguard will significantly outperform them, having either much more resilience per point with shields, or much more offensive potential with scythes. As well as being <CORE>, with everything that can give you.

The best thing about the spyders is probably that you can heroically intervene with them for 1CP.

Spyders need a lot from your Crypteks -- they want the control node for +1 to hit, the +d3 attack arkana, AND a phylacterine hive because getting one to pass RP is extremely difficult.

This means two of your Crypteks have to be dedicated to buffing Canoptek units. If you're also taking Doomstalkers and Wraiths, the cost doesn't sting as much, but you could be buffing Destroyers or Lychguard or Tomb Blades instead.

Really comes down to determining what Spyders (and Canoptek-heavy lists in general) can do that other kinds of Necron lists can't.

Chaos Spawn are broken, so not really a great comparison.

Three Spiders with Technomancer with Canoptek Control Node and Fail-safe Overcharger is 300 on the nose (3x 60 + 75+15+30).

5 attacks base + 2 average from Overcharger
21 attacks
14 hits
11.67 wounds
9.73 dead MEQ

There have been times when 66% RoI/turn has been considered very nice value. You could also switch the Overcharger to the Hive, to bring one Spider back, nets you 40 points if your opponent does not kill all three in one turn.

Not to mention the resistance to that strat is gonna blow the spyders up, not the crypteks (or at least not easily) so the crypteks can easily just mosey on over to something else to buff it afterwords.

Essentially you bought a distraction carnifex where part of the reason its so threatening can be moved to another unit. Thats a winwin

So looking at the reanimator there just does not seem to be a way to make it worthwhile. As it currently stands in order for it to make its points back in boosting RP it would need to provide its bonus to 54 RP rolls. This means that you would need a way to have it provide a buff to a 20 warrior squad for at least three different turns. This means that the model would either need to be able to hide, stay away from enemy fire, or survive attacks for three turns. Also, the list would need three full units of warriors, these warriors would also have to be introduced progressively i.e. one unit each turn.

Since this does not seem to be very likely. Players would need to be relying on it actually killing things which maybe it could as it’s gun is not terrible, but then you risk its survivability.

So really, the reanimator needs to be 1) drastically reduced in points, 2) its buff to RP needs to be an aura 3) it needs an improvement in durability. Ideally 2 out of 3 of these things need to happen.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate when GW introduces a new unit with garbage rules.

Drakmord wrote:
Spyders need a lot from your Crypteks -- they want the control node for +1 to hit, the +d3 attack arkana, AND a phylacterine hive because getting one to pass RP is extremely difficult.

This means two of your Crypteks have to be dedicated to buffing Canoptek units. If you're also taking Doomstalkers and Wraiths, the cost doesn't sting as much, but you could be buffing Destroyers or Lychguard or Tomb Blades instead.

Really comes down to determining what Spyders (and Canoptek-heavy lists in general) can do that other kinds of Necron lists can't.

Yes. I agree with this. The raw damage potential is there. The Survivability is there BUT. There are other issues. 2 Cryptecs is not really worth the investment to go all in on them IMO. The attractive thing about the spyders is thecost and bonus utility Start dumping into mutiple cryptec upgrades and it gets pricey real fast.

Best way to run it IMO?
Take 9 spiders and 1 cryptec with the +1 to hit and failsafe. Maybe take a cryptothrolls to protect that cryptec too. + Take units of scarabs. This list wont be utilziing doom stalkers though - so will need to bring probably a destroyer lord to buff heavy destryoers or take doomsday archs and triarch stalkers for your shooting elements.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

russellmoo wrote:
So looking at the reanimator there just does not seem to be a way to make it worthwhile. As it currently stands in order for it to make its points back in boosting RP it would need to provide its bonus to 54 RP rolls. This means that you would need a way to have it provide a buff to a 20 warrior squad for at least three different turns. This means that the model would either need to be able to hide, stay away from enemy fire, or survive attacks for three turns. Also, the list would need three full units of warriors, these warriors would also have to be introduced progressively i.e. one unit each turn.

Since this does not seem to be very likely. Players would need to be relying on it actually killing things which maybe it could as it’s gun is not terrible, but then you risk its survivability.

So really, the reanimator needs to be 1) drastically reduced in points, 2) its buff to RP needs to be an aura 3) it needs an improvement in durability. Ideally 2 out of 3 of these things need to happen.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate when GW introduces a new unit with garbage rules.

It makes absolutely no sense why it doesn't just have the doom stalker profile for it's points cost.

Also makes no sense how the doom stalker does not have the melee profile of the reanimator.

Acehilator wrote:
Chaos Spawn are broken, so not really a great comparison.

Three Spiders with Technomancer with Canoptek Control Node and Fail-safe Overcharger is 300 on the nose (3x 60 + 75+15+30).

5 attacks base + 2 average from Overcharger
21 attacks
14 hits
11.67 wounds
9.73 dead MEQ

There have been times when 66% RoI/turn has been considered very nice value. You could also switch the Overcharger to the Hive, to bring one Spider back, nets you 40 points if your opponent does not kill all three in one turn.

Yeah, but again, 10 triarchs cost 50 points less and kill 11.11 MEQ instead, plus an additional 3.7 from shooting, which is actually an over 100% ROI against MEQ if you can actually find enough of them within range to murder. While moving much faster, being more resilient to almost all kinds of fire, being infantry and therefore not giving up 6 secondary points, having an RP that might actually work, being much more deadly against GEQ, and having access to a +1 to hit on demand for 1CP. And above all...not needing support. They just do all that stuff, right out of the box.

That said, if you do take the spyders + techno combo, you want to give them the guns. +30 points for 24 S5 hits a volley is a no-brainer, and really addresses their main weakness, being tarpitted by junk. And a gloom prism too, having a deny is almost certainly worth the 5 points.

The way spyders make arguable sense to me is going all-in and taking 9 + 1 technomancer, then putting guns on all of them, and hoping your opponent doesn't have enough dedicated anti-tank to remove them. At that point they're putting out a massive number of anti-chaff shots, coupled with threatening melee.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

russellmoo wrote:
So looking at the reanimator there just does not seem to be a way to make it worthwhile. As it currently stands in order for it to make its points back in boosting RP it would need to provide its bonus to 54 RP rolls. This means that you would need a way to have it provide a buff to a 20 warrior squad for at least three different turns. This means that the model would either need to be able to hide, stay away from enemy fire, or survive attacks for three turns. Also, the list would need three full units of warriors, these warriors would also have to be introduced progressively i.e. one unit each turn.

Since this does not seem to be very likely. Players would need to be relying on it actually killing things which maybe it could as it’s gun is not terrible, but then you risk its survivability.

So really, the reanimator needs to be 1) drastically reduced in points, 2) its buff to RP needs to be an aura 3) it needs an improvement in durability. Ideally 2 out of 3 of these things need to happen.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate when GW introduces a new unit with garbage rules.

The reanimator is utter junk, it is one of those units where GW just had no freaking clue what it was doing. Even with character protection it would be junk, without it it's an actual joke - the only question is whether the joke is on GW or the community.