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On the page with Dynastic codes is a line for choosing a dynasty which is not on the given list. "You can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and strategies of those who hail from it."
You know that old classic Maynarkh strategy? The one where they're made out of space gold and get 6" advance moves??
Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.
Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.
changemod wrote: Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.
Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.
Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.
However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.
Yea, I think some folks are jumping the gun on tomb blades a bit. 41 points each and they have to kiss the enemy for max damage means I'd rather take destroyers any day of the week. You figure it's easier to keep a cryptek near the destroyers which means they easily get the 5++ but have an extra wound and they naturally reroll 1's... That unit is absolutely disgusting. Especially with stratagems, just pay 1cp and keep them off the table to stop the alpha, then drop one brick in near a normal lord and cryptek and spend the 1 cp destroyer startagem on the other unit and just melt all the things. I mean, even they can drop into half range and prevent most things from getting any save.
Don't get me wrong, tomb blades are still good, just not nearly as god tier as I first thought. They get expensive fast and your still only inflicting single damage.
Wraiths literally make lychguard worthless even with the increase. Sure they are 20 points more, but they don't need their hand held or any tricks to make them work. S6 -2 d2 plus an advance and charge strat plus they can leave combat and re engage, PLUS they ignore obsticles and models and still have a better invuln then sword and board guard.
Scarabs are hilarious as well. Only 13ppm and still very useful. Especially now that they can blow up, imagine striping the last wounds off someone like guilliman.
Also here is a big question for you all, I cannot find a single line preventing you from reusing powers of the C'tan. Unless this is day one FAQ'd or I missed something, you can just take a vault and use sky of falling stars 3 times in a row. Then burn a CP out of spite and roll for one more!
changemod wrote: Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.
Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.
Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.
However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.
The key is taking full 6 man standard units. Maybe splash one heavy. Then burn the stratagem. They will nuke most things fairly easily. Thats not including other stratagems like exploding 6's or the sautek mortal wound one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/12 17:35:08
Red Corsair wrote: Yea, I think some folks are jumping the gun on tomb blades a bit. 41 points each and they have to kiss the enemy for max damage means I'd rather take destroyers any day of the week. You figure it's easier to keep a cryptek near the destroyers which means they easily get the 5++ but have an extra wound and they naturally reroll 1's... That unit is absolutely disgusting. Especially with stratagems, just pay 1cp and keep them off the table to stop the alpha, then drop one brick in near a normal lord and cryptek and spend the 1 cp destroyer startagem on the other unit and just melt all the things. I mean, even they can drop into half range and prevent most things from getting any save.
Don't get me wrong, tomb blades are still good, just not nearly as god tier as I first thought. They get expensive fast and your still only inflicting single damage.
Wraiths literally make lychguard worthless even with the increase. Sure they are 20 points more, but they don't need their hand held or any tricks to make them work. S6 -2 d2 plus an advance and charge strat plus they can leave combat and re engage, PLUS they ignore obsticles and models and still have a better invuln then sword and board guard.
Scarabs are hilarious as well. Only 13ppm and still very useful. Especially now that they can blow up, imagine striping the last wounds off someone like guilliman.
Also here is a big question for you all, I cannot find a single line preventing you from reusing powers of the C'tan. Unless this is day one FAQ'd or I missed something, you can just take a vault and use sky of falling stars 3 times in a row. Then burn a CP out of spite and roll for one more!
changemod wrote: Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.
Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.
Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.
However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.
The key is taking full 6 man standard units. Maybe splash one heavy. Then burn the stratagem. They will nuke most things fairly easily. Thats not including other stratagems like exploding 6's or the sautek mortal wound one.
For the Tesseract Vault, it states that you can use a number of different powers of the c'tan. Emphasis on the word different.
Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.
Requizen wrote: Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.
If you don't make them as durable as possible then your gona lose them fast even with the -1 to hit. If you take the 5++ but not the +1 armor your setting yourself up. I run lists that spam heavy bolter equivalent shooting and then multi damage. If you run with just the shadowloom suddenly HB type weapons make that 5++ a worthless investment. Makes no sense not to take the most durable loadout after you have spent so much per 2 wound model.
Even at 35, they are far from broken. Your not gona get double tap range on most armies due to screens unless you shoot the screen, which is counter productive. It;s why screening works so well. So 9 points per shot at 12" is good but not great. A quad HB rapier is 76, thats only 6.3 per shot at 36". I just think destroyers are way better having seen the leak now. Use 1cp per unit to hide them turn one, drop them in wherever you need them and screen them out with nearby buufs and they are Vastly better. 2+ in cover, with a 5++ and 3 wounds each and they have better gun vs everything plus an insane stratagem.
Maybe I am mis remembering the stratagem wording BTW but you definitely want the 3+ save on those bikes with the +1 save strat. Makes your 5++ a 4++ and that 3+ a 2+... So like I said, they are far from cheap for their damage output.
I mean, consider the deepsrike strat I just mentioned. It makes even warriors more efficient per shot per point against horde. You get a 6 point shot, both are wounding guardsmen on a 3 and both from mephrit ignore the save. We can then argue durability, but I need to take warriors already, and they do the same job.
Until I remembered monoliths were at the end of the movement phase with their orbital drop I was all 'YES!' because I was imagining dropping them all and then transporting out a bunch of forces with the new strat and then rushing them into melee with monolith firesupport. *chuckle*
I mean~ I guess I could still use 1 or 2 monoliths as concealment and deploy my forces in a corner at the start and then grand illusion them up and from there, spend 1cp per monolith to transport my melee guys or half range shooters in via portal.
Could even keep 1 unit off planet and use a cp to emergency beam in a shooter or further support in a pinch I suppose since the monoliths ass is so thicc and unlikely the enemy completely wrapped it.
Granted the effectiveness of this would probably only really shine dependent on us going first. Any thoughts on this strat or potential refinement?
Might cut it down to 1 mono if I feel the need to bring a boatload (ghost ark) of leadership, at which point if I get a 3 on the GI (which I think was d3 units, it's been awhile though) I can always just take up another shooting unit into position.
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
Requizen wrote: Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.
If you don't make them as durable as possible then your gona lose them fast even with the -1 to hit. If you take the 5++ but not the +1 armor your setting yourself up. I run lists that spam heavy bolter equivalent shooting and then multi damage. If you run with just the shadowloom suddenly HB type weapons make that 5++ a worthless investment. Makes no sense not to take the most durable loadout after you have spent so much per 2 wound model.
Even at 35, they are far from broken. Your not gona get double tap range on most armies due to screens unless you shoot the screen, which is counter productive. It;s why screening works so well. So 9 points per shot at 12" is good but not great. A quad HB rapier is 76, thats only 6.3 per shot at 36". I just think destroyers are way better having seen the leak now. Use 1cp per unit to hide them turn one, drop them in wherever you need them and screen them out with nearby buufs and they are Vastly better. 2+ in cover, with a 5++ and 3 wounds each and they have better gun vs everything plus an insane stratagem.
Maybe I am mis remembering the stratagem wording BTW but you definitely want the 3+ save on those bikes with the +1 save strat. Makes your 5++ a 4++ and that 3+ a 2+... So like I said, they are far from cheap for their damage output.
I mean, consider the deepsrike strat I just mentioned. It makes even warriors more efficient per shot per point against horde. You get a 6 point shot, both are wounding guardsmen on a 3 and both from mephrit ignore the save. We can then argue durability, but I need to take warriors already, and they do the same job.
I don't think Blades are the new Scatbike, but imo 35 is more than fair for them. I don't want to be imbalanced anyway, nobody liked Codex: Scatbike.
Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:08:27
Red Corsair wrote: Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.
I did. It says you can use 3 different powers of the C'tan. They need to be different, not the same.
Anyone else notice the different in the Ghost Ark repair barge wording?
It used to say: " In addition, at the end of each of your Movement phases, you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for any slain models from a single DYNASTY Warriors unit within 3" of the Ghost Ark. You cannot use this ability on a unit that has been targeted with a resurrection orb this turn."
Emphasis on the "Single".
It doesn't specify a single unit anymore. It reads as though any unit of warriors within 3" can have RP rerolled... which is a little insane.
Nothing stays OP in this edition for long. The good news is the next nerf bat comes in the March faq update...look to see if they adjust shining spears to see how your tomb blades will Fair in the September/October chapter approved beating. 6 months to buy, build, paint, and spam the newest shiny probably isn’t the best way to go about it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:14:52
Take the Mephrit Dynasty, equip a CCB with the relic, the Voltiac Staff and a Gauss Cannon. Take the Mephrit Warlord trait and you can shoot characters.
the staff does: Assault 3, 18" (thanks to the Mephrit Warlord Trait) 3 shots, S6 AP-3 D2, Wound rolls of 6+ cause an additional Mortal Wound.
Then the Gauss Cannon: heavy 3, 24" S6 AP-3 D3 dmg.
Even an extra -1ap if you are at half range (though you probably wont need it)
I think it's great if there is stuff like a Pain/Weirdboy, SM Lieutenant, Tau Ethereal/Fireblade and the likes on the field.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:15:06
Red Corsair wrote: Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.
Yeah you missed it. It clearly says different powers per turn. You can't re-use.
Secondly, Shieldvane Tomb Blades at 35 points are still a steal. They can reliably benefit from the Mephrit code, and -1 to be hit is an immense buff in durability. They also got a cheap firepower gem available to them.
Destroyers aren't bad, but they're still glass cannons and will never ever get to use RP. EDIT:
I think some posters here are on the right track with maxing Tomb Blades and then looking at how best to get the C'tan powers. Deceiver certainly looks good to me because of his Grand Illusion happening after roll to start the game and seize the initiative, like RG/AL/ADMech infiltrate stratagems. Necrons will need some deployment options, because they can't just cover the midfield and eliminate drop zones with Space Marine Scouts.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:30:57
I would definitely consider Nephrakh if I was going Destroyers. A unit of 6 that I can hide for 1CP is so worth it, they don't get much from the other Dynasties anyway (extra AP is a bit win-more, they already reroll 1s, don't want to be in combat, and can move and shoot Heavy anyway).
…I forget, can a character split their shots? I remembered that units could but wanted to make sure. Haven't even thought about this games mechanics for a few months now since I've been waiting for this stuff.
Saw the solar staffs assault 6 and 'units hit by this cannot make overwatch and -1 to hit for the rest of the turn' and thought "That's a good melee support item." especially since its only 'hit' and not 'wounded'. So if I go 3 attacks at 2 different untis thats likely two units that wont be overwatching the boys.
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
Lothmar wrote: …I forget, can a character split their shots? I remembered that units could but wanted to make sure. Haven't even thought about this games mechanics for a few months now since I've been waiting for this stuff.
Saw the solar staffs assault 6 and 'units hit by this cannot make overwatch and -1 to hit for the rest of the turn' and thought "That's a good melee support item." especially since its only 'hit' and not 'wounded'. So if I go 3 attacks at 2 different untis thats likely two units that wont be overwatching the boys.
Pretty sure you can't split individual guns, so Characters have to all hit the same unit. Still good for shutting down something that's shooting at your Wraiths, Lychguard, or Flayed Ones.
Man, people were meh on the Sautekh traits, but I can't see the reason not to run a Battalion of Imotekh, Lord, and 3x10 Tesla Immortals in every competitive army build, unless they've nerfed the Tesla mechanic somehow.
+4CP
CP back on 5+
MWBD 2 units
Sautekh Stratagem for +1hit
= 2 units of Immortals triggering Tesla effect on 4+
A side board of Nephrek Outrider detach seems good as well, for Advance 6" + Charge Wraiths, and a big Destroyer unit you can hide in Deepstrike to protect from Alpha.
Requizen wrote: I would definitely consider Nephrakh if I was going Destroyers. A unit of 6 that I can hide for 1CP is so worth it, they don't get much from the other Dynasties anyway (extra AP is a bit win-more, they already reroll 1s, don't want to be in combat, and can move and shoot Heavy anyway).
Yea thats the strat I was referring to. It's so good, I play lucius admech regularly and the ability to protect your alpha units is just bonkers.
Can someone explain to me how Flayed Ones ended up at 17 ppm?
Let's ignore the fact that they are horribly expensive (moneywise) direct GW-only models in failcast.
They are 1 wound, T4 models with a 4+ save.
They have no shooting.
They are decent at melee at best. (3 Attacks isn't amazing, and while rerolling to wound is good, lack of any AP and Damage is not.)
They're not even Troops.
They have innate deepstrike, but no other way to help them reach combat.
Explain in what world 20 of them is worth 340 pts, especially when you can get 10 Sword'n'bord Lychguard for the exact same pricetag (or 6 Wraiths for 330 pts.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:46:41
Oh wow, Ghost Arks now affect any warrior squad within 3". Which means you can now have that formation I suggested back when the index was released, where you have an ark surrounded by 4 blocks of warriors, periodically embarking a squad when it gets too low.
Doom scythes still suffer -1 to hit for using its primary weapon. Lame.
I like how they reference the 3rd ed tagline for the Code of War section. Their Number is Legion, Their Name is Death.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 18:57:39
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Red Corsair wrote: Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.
Yeah you missed it. It clearly says different powers per turn. You can't re-use.
Secondly, Shieldvane Tomb Blades at 35 points are still a steal. They can reliably benefit from the Mephrit code, and -1 to be hit is an immense buff in durability. They also got a cheap firepower gem available to them.
Destroyers aren't bad, but they're still glass cannons and will never ever get to use RP. EDIT:
Glass canon my ass mate. 6 of them is 18 T5 wounds with a 2+ in cover and a 5++ from a cryptek, more importantly they have the range on their guns to dictate where they fight. 9 blades have the same wounds, worse save but are harder to hit. Crucially they need to get point blank, meaning you can cock block them with chaf. Their guns are also MUCH worse. Your also acting as though the 3rd wound is unimportant. Having 3 wounds in 8th is like the difference between toughness 4 and 5 and instant death in 7th. Half the guns in my other armies either do a flat 2 damage or average 2. It means destroyers are actually alot more durable then your giving credit. Any list that can clear a full unit of 6 in cover will also clear 9 blades.
So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: Man, people were meh on the Sautekh traits, but I can't see the reason not to run a Battalion of Imotekh, Lord, and 3x10 Tesla Immortals in every competitive army build, unless they've nerfed the Tesla mechanic somehow.
+4CP
CP back on 5+
MWBD 2 units
Sautekh Stratagem for +1hit
= 2 units of Immortals triggering Tesla effect on 4+
A side board of Nephrek Outrider detach seems good as well, for Advance 6" + Charge Wraiths, and a big Destroyer unit you can hide in Deepstrike to protect from Alpha.
Yup, plus Imoteks storm ability is acutally really good. Just use a command reroll and your talking about an average of 4 MW's before any bounce. That is a savage ability. "Hey nice -2 to hit reapers, pick up 4 of them mate." Helps him recoup his cost plus he is the equivalent of two overlords. That is some moocho savings. Plus the regain CP's is killer.
Arachnofiend wrote: So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.
Fingers crossed.
The final product goes into production well before it goes up for preorder however. While the beta-codex is dated around october/november, the final print went into production weeks ago, if not months.
Arachnofiend wrote: So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.
It's possible that it has changed, but remember than editing and printing is a long process. They may have finalized points and abilities in October and have been waiting until recently to release because of printing issues or waiting on the new Cryptek sculpt and Forgebane.
But you're right, these aren't final until someone is literally holding the book. It's a good predictor, though, and I doubt we'll see the Strats/Traits/Artifacts change much if at all.
P'tah Dynasty
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
~1660
