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Ridge wrote: Deathmarks only really use mephrit well when intercepting or when they leave a nice juicy character within 3" of their front line, everything else doesn't really ever come into play
since ctan powers are now amazing for sniping characters, the best way to use deathmarks is as a way to block further units from deepstrike charging your gun lines by killing some and denying the area the opponent was planning on using for some more drops.
It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh? 3 squads of 5 Deathmarks and an HQ to help counter Plasma Scions and Custodes shenanigans.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh?
yeah but only really if you also need/can spare the points for another HQ
and is 300 + HQ really a cheap vanguard? unless you are needing to play tetris with your fast attack and elite slots then just taking squads of 3 scarabs to use as back field objective campers will be far cheaper unless you really want the deepstrike deny shenanigans you get with DMs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 04:10:16
luke1705 wrote: Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the rolling for the C’tans Red. A 3++ is just way too good. Give them the 6” advance, wraiths to screen for them and some backfield objective holders to prevent deep striking from behind.
I’m thinking triple c’tan triple wraithwing with some canoptek cryptek support to let the wraiths get in some good RP rolls, backfield warriors or immortals to move up slowly with some scarabs to hold any backfield objectives permenantly. Advance 6” and hope for a t1 charge, advance the third unit 6” turn 2 and by turn 2 for sure you have 18 wraiths minus dead wraiths in combat with some good stuff, with the ability to fall back and charge other stuff the next turn. I actually like it a lot. Probably not super competitive but get hot on some wraith invulns and who knows what can happen?
Also can the deceiver reposition wraiths? Because if so....
Best of all, 7 CP feels like plenty for a wraithwing army (1 batallion, 1 outrider)
Deceiver can reposition anything, but it stipulates you cannot assault turn 1 so it;s a terrible choice to do it to wraiths.
As for the invuln, agree to disagree. I want my C'tan projecting as many MW's as possible. +1 invuln sounds cool but with smites and null zone etc... it's just too easily countered. There are no counters to the powers of the C'tan really, aside from clever counter deployment.
It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh?
yeah but only really if you also need/can spare the points for another HQ
and is 300 + HQ really a cheap vanguard? unless you are needing to play tetris with your fast attack and elite slots then just taking squads of 3 scarabs to use as back field objective campers will be far cheaper unless you really want the deepstrike deny shenanigans you get with DMs
Gives me an excuse to run the CCB sniper lord though so I like the idea lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 05:26:38
THUNDERHAMMER wrote: Looking at Mephirit Thinking lots of immortals Is gauss still the clear winner up close?
Considering the deceiver to get some boys up the board feels weird having a slightly mobile army with destroyers tomb blades and wraiths
Immortals are defintely quite good of taken in 10men numbers. But other units have their own merits anyway, like Wraiths can go tie up some troublesome units hiding behind screens and in cover. While the Destroyers are winners against multi wound guys with low / mid toughness. Tomb blades, like a "super immortal", moves fast to reposition, so can catch up enemy fast units as the game progresses while Immortals with Deceiver are only good at the alpha strike.
Punisher wrote: For the ctan's power Times Arrow does the die roll have to exceed it's maximum Wounds or just it's current wounds?
On a slightly related note what's the consensus on the 2 powers we should be picking for ctans?
Sky of falling stars for sure, and for the other probably time's arrow or anti-matter meteor, since they can hit up to 6 mortal wounds in a single shot, and the other allows you to delete units with no recourse. YMMV
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
I would and will always roll for 2 powers. There is a stratagem for 1 CP that let's you change one out if you don't like it. The question is if you roll doubles would that just mean you have the same one twice? If so that's not a big deal, just keep one and change the other. Or does it mean you simply just get one power? I am inclined to think you get the same ability twice which means you can change one to something different and keep the other one.
I think there's some confusion here -- though maybe it's mine! There are two different things being talked about, I think. There are the pseudo-psychic powers the C'tan get, and then there are 6 abilities that the Transcendant C'tan only gets, and it's these that you either pick 1 or roll 2 from. The stratagem to replace one power with another is for the psychic powers, not for the T'C'tan's abilities. I think the only reason to roll on the psychic table is if you're bringing multiple C'tan and run afoul of the can't re-pick rule. Being able to use two of the psychic powers per turn seems like easily the best of the T'C'tan's special abilities, and it's probably always worth picking over rolling so you don't risk not getting it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 10:49:28
Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)
KurtAngle2 wrote: You can't go under 1 with that QS Stratagem, so it's worthless for single damage weapons
Why not? sure, normally you don't roll for 1 dmg on QS, but now you can roll a one and subract 1, reaching 0 and thus no damage.
I know there is the rule that a natural 1 is always a failure, but does that count in this scenario as well? If I have to roll for my QS on 6 dmg, a roll of a 1 is a success.
KurtAngle2 wrote: You can't go under 1 with that QS Stratagem, so it's worthless for single damage weapons
Why not? sure, normally you don't roll for 1 dmg on QS, but now you can roll a one and subract 1, reaching 0 and thus no damage.
I know there is the rule that a natural 1 is always a failure, but does that count in this scenario as well? If I have to roll for my QS on 6 dmg, a roll of a 1 is a success.
The faq states that a roll of under 1 is never possible, whilst 6+ rolls are
Hi, long long time lurker here (since 4th edition, with break in 6th-7th).
I have a question regarding Illuminor Szeras and his Warlord Trait Immortal Pride which says :
"Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass Morale tests ..."
But Szeras don't have a Dynasty trait so there is two way you could read this, it works with everybody or nobody.
I know the leak is a beta version, so it is possible it will be adressed in the release version, but still, how do you interpret it ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 11:16:13
Shaelinith wrote: Hi, long long time lurker here (since 4th edition, with break in 6th-7th).
I have a question regarding Illuminor Szeras and his Warlord Trait Immortal Pride which says :
"Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass Morale tests ..."
But Szeras don't have a Dynasty trait so there is two way you could read this, it works with everybody or nobody.
I know the leak is a beta version, so it is possible it will be adresse in the release version, but still, how do you interpret it ?
I don't understand what you mean? Necron units that are not Szeras have <dynasty>, so they will be affected by the trait.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I decided to go with a fairly basic Sautekh list rather than try anything fancy:
Spoiler:
Overlord Lord Cryptek
20x Warriors 10x Tesla Imm 10x Tesla Imm
5x Wraith 9x Scarabs 3x Tesla TBs 3x Tesla TBs
3x H.Destroyers DDA DDA
So a basic Phalanx formation; Troops + HQs in the middle, big guns at the back, fast units covering the flanks.
I was up against Guilliman with a rolling ball of anti infantry dakka (agressors, repulsor + primaris dreadnaughts) and 5 units of scouts.
A few points:
-The scouts claimed the whole board at deployment while I had to stick to my DZ. This will always be a problem for crons
-3x Heavy Destroyers with the strat = 3D6 wounds on what they shoot most of the time. Nice. 6x regular destroyers would make better use of the strat though.
-DDAs are also pretty fearsome anti-tank.
- Warriors are still pretty squishy and you really don't want to burn 2CP to ignore morale when ~15 go down.
- The Sautekh code never came up. I was always looking for the right time to use their stratagem but didn't find it. The WL trait is obviously nice.
- MSU seems good for Tomb Blades. They don't benefit from any stratagems or buffs that make you want big units and they make great objective grabbers. 3 was enough to take objectives off scouts with shoot, charge, fall back, shoot again.
-The scouts were all on upper floors of ruins so wraith and scarabs couldn't get them (right?). The Wraith ended up charging into a Dreadnaught in a null zone, fluffing their attacks, and dying horribly.
- Guilliman running around your back line is unpleasant.
I squeaked a win on objectives after we both lost most of our armies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 11:36:24
I don't understand what you mean? Necron units that are not Szeras have <dynasty>, so they will be affected by the trait.
Yeah but isn't the <Dynasty> keyword in all abilities (and Warlord Trait) of a model/unit is dependant of the model itself ?
Szeras had no <Dynasty> keyword at all so you replace <Dynasty> with ... nothing ?
Maybe i'm confused about this though
There is the rule in the codex that units without dynasty (c'tans, szeras, anrakyr, triarchs) do not break Dynasty Code for the detachment they are in, but never themselves benefit from the said Code.
Like Astra Militarum and Ministorum Priests, for example.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I personally consider that Necrons are going to get the strongest Brigade choice so far.
And you will want to take it cause they will have one of the highest CP consumption, and that might even justify choosing Sautekh Dynasty for CP loss mitigation, instead of Mephrite bonus to AP.
I calculated the spending of 9-10 in first turn alone.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 11:40:56
My current thinking is that they are pushing necrons away from silver tide into a much more elite, very offensive army.
RP is unchanged, which means its just as bad as index, but there are certain areas where it is now insanely better. This is all due to the cape-tek.
Since destroyers and tomb blades new get good RP, being T5, 2W with 3+/5++/4+++* means they are alot more durable. I know how tough 9 blades was in index vs codex armies, they are an auto include in any list i build now, their utility to damage output to survivability is second to none, besides vehicles.
C'tan are phenomenal now, especially the TV. I mathed two fire raptors standing next to Daddy G and they dont even kill the thing. For reference, on average rolls a single raptor one shots mortarion or magnus...... Now it gets D3 a turn back, and vomits mortal wounds.
You can game the ctan powers to get exactly what you want with a vault and a T/Ctan with the stratagem.
Vehicles are amazing now with sautekh.
In fact, I feel its going to come down to Codex: Sautekh, as it has incredible similarities to ultramarines. Warlord trait, stratagem and the general utility it provides far outweights every other dynasty on a whole. Granted some have niche advantages (Cult d/bomb for example) but on the whole its the dynasty to run.
Moving foward I plan to run the TV, a T/C'tan, Scarabs, 6 wraiths, 9 blades, 10-20 T'immortals and 2 cape-teks, TA and DDA and stalker at 2k. I know this will fit as I have ran it index (had 10 immortals and an O/lord, but with points decreases I should fit it all in, fingers crossed I can also get an O/lord for MWBD, or big daddy imotekh if im REALLY lucky).
Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.
I'm thinking that Nephrekh Dynasty is a nice fit if you want to cheap out on a battalion. 5 man Tesla Immortal squads that advance 11" and still shoot could be a tricksy little unit. Great objective grabbers and DS deniers that should be hard to kill if they hide well and teleport form cover to cover. A Lord or Overlord with a SoL for ~85pts is also not terrible zipping about 11" and still shooting. Throw in a couple of 3x Tesla Tomb Blade units and you have an interesting skirmish screen of fast moving, durable harassment units.
This seems like a decent way of combating a couple of problems with Necron list building: The Battalion tax and the lack of screening/board control.
So maybe something like:
Battalion:
Cryptekh + Chrono + Sol + veil
Lord + SoL
10x Tesla Imm
5x Tesla Imm
5x Tesla Imm
Outrider:
CCB
6x Destroyers (Deep Strike)
3x TBlades
3x TBlades
The Lord, 2x Immortals and 2x Tomb Blades teleport around screening and grabbing objectives.
The Veil Cryptek, 10x Immortals and 6x Destroyers drop in together as a hammer.
Still plenty of points left for some anti-tank and maybe a big unit of wraith (they really like the 6" advance).
I actually have four Destroyer Crypteks converted as part of the Destroyer Cult gimmick list I ran for a while last edition. I ran them as heavy destroyers after essentially cutting the legs off my no-longer usable harbingers of destruction conversions and sticking them to destroyer bodies.
But yeah, they might be a bit oversized but I could see fielding one as a Cloak Cryptek along with my destroyers. Maybe run him with that Mephrit relic staff of light to amp up his staff to match the model.
I'll definitely be running 2000 points worth of destroyer body models at some point, exact army composition to be determined by probably split into two detachments to get command points, probably Mephrit because there aren't many dynasty traits that actually help Destroyers much and Sautekh only does anything when advancing.
It'd be really nice if units with the Triarch codeword had their own in built ability. Having Stalkers and Praetorians that can't combo with your Dynasty Code, Dynasty abilities or Dynasty strategies is just awkward.
I know Praetorians have their own morale ability but something specific to the Triarch codeword itself that would work on Stalkers too would be nice.
Also
The question is, with the Transcendent C'Tan, do you pick Cosmic Tyrant for Fractured Personality or roll for two random abilities? The perfect roll for me would be Cosmic Tyrant and Transdimensional Displacement. Do an Assault move 20" up the board and then use two Powers of the C'Tan straight away.
Doctoralex wrote: Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)
Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.
I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1
Doctoralex wrote: Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)
Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.
I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1
You need to roll under their max wounds, not equal to or less. 5 out of 6 uses Time Arrow will probably do nothing. It's a trap power. Stick to Sky of Falling Stars for sure.
I decided to go with a fairly basic Sautekh list rather than try anything fancy:
Spoiler:
Overlord
Lord
Cryptek
20x Warriors
10x Tesla Imm
10x Tesla Imm
5x Wraith
9x Scarabs
3x Tesla TBs 3x Tesla TBs
3x H.Destroyers
DDA DDA
So a basic Phalanx formation; Troops + HQs in the middle, big guns at the back, fast units covering the flanks.
I was up against Guilliman with a rolling ball of anti infantry dakka (agressors, repulsor + primaris dreadnaughts) and 5 units of scouts.
A few points:
-The scouts claimed the whole board at deployment while I had to stick to my DZ. This will always be a problem for crons
-3x Heavy Destroyers with the strat = 3D6 wounds on what they shoot most of the time. Nice. 6x regular destroyers would make better use of the strat though.
-DDAs are also pretty fearsome anti-tank.
- Warriors are still pretty squishy and you really don't want to burn 2CP to ignore morale when ~15 go down.
- The Sautekh code never came up. I was always looking for the right time to use their stratagem but didn't find it. The WL trait is obviously nice.
- MSU seems good for Tomb Blades. They don't benefit from any stratagems or buffs that make you want big units and they make great objective grabbers. 3 was enough to take objectives off scouts with shoot, charge, fall back, shoot again.
-The scouts were all on upper floors of ruins so wraith and scarabs couldn't get them (right?). The Wraith ended up charging into a Dreadnaught in a null zone, fluffing their attacks, and dying horribly.
- Guilliman running around your back line is unpleasant.
I squeaked a win on objectives after we both lost most of our armies.
Wraiths should have been able to get the scouts had you wanted to. They move over terrain as if its not there and scarabs have fly.
Doctoralex wrote: Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)
Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.
I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1
You need to roll under their max wounds, not equal to or less. 5 out of 6 uses Time Arrow will probably do nothing. It's a trap power. Stick to Sky of Falling Stars for sure.
No you need to roll over the max wound characteristic of the unit. Therefore TV can snipe 6 wound characters on the roll of a 6 since it gets +1. Additionally, most buff characters clock in at 4 wounds, thus a Ctan needs a 5 or 6 to kill them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 12:43:30
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.
~4100
~1660
12,000 
