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Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut





Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


I disagree. Not all powers improve that much from the Vault.

Thunderbolt for instance, just turns the 4+ into a 3+. It doesnt affect the AoE part of it.

Improved sky of the falling stars only helps if the targeted unit has 5 or less models. Anything above and it does exactly the same as the none-improved one.

And Anti-matter meteor requires you to put your luck on rolling that 5+. It can fail just as easily as the non-improved one.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Doctoralex wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


I disagree. Not all powers improve that much from the Vault.

Thunderbolt for instance, just turns the 4+ into a 3+. It doesnt affect the AoE part of it.

Improved sky of the falling stars only helps if the targeted unit has 5 or less models. Anything above and it does exactly the same as the none-improved one.

And Anti-matter meteor requires you to put your luck on rolling that 5+. It can fail just as easily as the non-improved one.


Statistically speaking the meteor has twice the chance of proccing the D6 MW when used by a vault (1/3 chance as opposed to 1/6 chance, or 33.33% to 16.67%. That's effectively double)
Thunderbolt doesn't get that much of a bonus (2/3 as opposed to 1/2, or 66.67% to 50%. That's an increase of just over a fifth.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 13:04:12


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ie
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





TA power should be used to kill things with 2-4 wounds that have great saves, Invuls, toughness, attacks etc like Custodes, Grey Knights etc. I was only stating that TA can also one shot Characters with wounds characteristic of 6 or less (well, 5 or less as you need to roll above the wound count). Obviously other powers will be better for taking out Characters and other units with good stats. It's just good that TA can ignore a unit/models stats and completely kill it. TA is probably a bit to niche for what it is worth. Reliability over use-ability I suppose.

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm not really sold on the Vault, outside of maybe a spam list. It's really, really durable, sure, but its main output is just 3 enhanced C'tan powers. Mostly this enhancement isn't that great.

Compared to a regular C'tan, the Vault is:
13% better with Antimatter Meteor
No better at killing W1 models with Time's Arrow, and 33% better at killing W3 models
25% better at hitting 5-model units with Sky of Falling Stars, and no better at hitting 6+ units, though of course infinitely better at hitting single models (but this is inefficient)
33% better at Cosmic Fire, plus it's bigger so might be closer to more units (on the other hand a regular C'tan probably has an easier time running into the middle of a bunch of enemy units).
100% better at Seismic Assault, though you need a pretty big unit still to make this better than other options
33% better against the initial target of Transdimensional Thunderbolt, and no better against everything around it

2 T'C'tans put out more MWs unless you're staring down something like a Boyz horde, and they cost less. They're more fragile but they're characters, and they're also pretty decent in CC. Plus you can use a stratagem to duplicate a power across the T'C'tans to get multiple casts of Sky or whatever other power is best-suited for the game.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Technically the vault is 50% better with meteor, as its going from proccing D6 MW at 16.67% to 33.33%.

You can also use more than 1 power a turn with the vault, which does give it a fire power increase, and this is in edition to its 5 tesla spheres.

It is worth 500 points and a LoW slot? Eh...maybe? I mean, what do the other armies get for 500 points in a LoW slot?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 13:34:18


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Technically the vault is 50% better with meteor, as its going from proccing D6 MW at 16.67% to 33.33%.

You can also use more than 1 power a turn with the vault, which does give it a fire power increase, and this is in edition to its 5 tesla spheres.

With AM, a regular C'tan gets d3 MWs on a 2-5 and d6 on a 6, for an average of 2*2/3 + 3.5*1/6 = 1.92. A Vault gets d3 MWs on a 2-4 and d6 on a 5 or 6, for an average of 2*1/2 + 3.5*1/3 = 2.17. It's a pretty small improvement since all you're doing is replacing a d3 with a d6 1/6th of the time.

A Vault gets 3 powers per turn, but 2 Transcendant C'tans get 4, and together can even cast the same power twice, which is a big deal since often there will be one clearly best power for a given matchup.

The Tesla Spheres are a nice plus. I might be underestimating them. I guess it is more firepower than a full Immortal squad.
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

I made a Nephrek list in the army list section that I'd like some feedback on if anyone would be so kind:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/752797.page#9877687

Here it is in spoilers:

Spoiler:
I think the Nephrekh Dynasty Code from the leaked Necron Codex is the coolest faction trait yet, personal teleporters for everyone! I also think it's quite good.

Here's the list:

Battalion:

Cryptek + Veil + SoL + Chronometron
Lord + SoL

10x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Outrider:

CCB + Gauss Cannon + Voidscythe

6x Destroyers
6x Wraith
6x Scarabs
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes


So there's a few different sections to this list:

The Hammer
6x Destroyers Deep Strike in (Stratagem) and are joined by the Veil Cryptek and 10 x Tesla Immortals. The destroyers get the reroll everything stratagem and the Immortals get MWBD from the CCB. That's some serious firepower and they all get the Crypteks 5++ and +1 reanimation which makes them pretty tough, especially in cover.

Board control/ Screening
The Lord with SoL, 2x5 Tesla Immortals and 2x3 Tomb Blades. These 5 units are all small, Tough and fast (thanks to the Dynasty code). The infantry models here can all move 11" and still shoot and are expendable enough to be used to block assaults and deep strikes. The Tomb Blades are quick enough (20" advance) that they may be able to zip forward and provide a DS screen for the hammer. All of them are very handy for grabbing objectives or just harassing and kiting the enemy.

Fire Support
2 x Doomsday Arks. Emphasis on doom.

Canoptek Rush
6x Wraith + 6x Scarabs. The Nephrekh code combos very nicely with the advance and charge stratagem for canopteks. Wraith have a 25" average threat range (30" max).

The Floater
The Command Barge. Like a turd? Maybe, but a 3rd HQ is Required. He can dish out some damage and/or provide some support and is fast enough to join up with any of the other elements.


Thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 13:42:56


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:00:25


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in se
Pile of Necron Spare Parts




I had an idea for a mixed dynasty list that might be fun to try out:
Spoiler:
Nephrekh Battalion:
HQ:
Catacomb command barge with Gauss Cannon and Voidreaper artifact. Warlord trait: Honorable Combatant
Illuminor Szeras

Troops:
10 x Tesla Immortals
10 x Tesla Immortals
10 x Gauss Immortals

Mephrit Outrider:
HQ:
Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak

Fast Attack:
9 x Gauss Tomb Blades (5 with shield vanes, 4 with shadowlooms)
9 x Gauss Tomb Blades (5 with shield vanes, 4 with shadowlooms)
5 x Scarabs

Heavy:
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

I think that this list gives Necrons a fair bit of mobility and board control to work with. The tomb blades, cryptek, and barge can harass enemy lines, and take advantage of fly and the voidreaper to both avoid damage and carve up enemy characters in melee while still being able to shoot. In the midfield, having augmented Tesla Immortals who can move 11 inches with their advance lets them grab objectives and find cover, while getting wave of command from the barge. The Arks can probably deal with enemy deepstrikes into the backfield just fine between quantum shielding and AP-2 flayers at deepstrike range. Gauss Immortals also then be deepstruck into enemy lines for a command point when you need to secure objectives or harass key units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I made a Nephrek list in the army list section that I'd like some feedback on if anyone would be so kind:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/752797.page#9877687

Here it is in spoilers:

Spoiler:
I think the Nephrekh Dynasty Code from the leaked Necron Codex is the coolest faction trait yet, personal teleporters for everyone! I also think it's quite good.

Here's the list:

Battalion:

Cryptek + Veil + SoL + Chronometron
Lord + SoL

10x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Outrider:

CCB + Gauss Cannon + Voidscythe

6x Destroyers
6x Wraith
6x Scarabs
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes


So there's a few different sections to this list:

The Hammer
6x Destroyers Deep Strike in (Stratagem) and are joined by the Veil Cryptek and 10 x Tesla Immortals. The destroyers get the reroll everything stratagem and the Immortals get MWBD from the CCB. That's some serious firepower and they all get the Crypteks 5++ and +1 reanimation which makes them pretty tough, especially in cover.

Board control/ Screening
The Lord with SoL, 2x5 Tesla Immortals and 2x3 Tomb Blades. These 5 units are all small, Tough and fast (thanks to the Dynasty code). The infantry models here can all move 11" and still shoot and are expendable enough to be used to block assaults and deep strikes. The Tomb Blades are quick enough (20" advance) that they may be able to zip forward and provide a DS screen for the hammer. All of them are very handy for grabbing objectives or just harassing and kiting the enemy.

Fire Support
2 x Doomsday Arks. Emphasis on doom.

Canoptek Rush
6x Wraith + 6x Scarabs. The Nephrekh code combos very nicely with the advance and charge stratagem for canopteks. Wraith have a 25" average threat range (30" max).

The Floater
The Command Barge. Like a turd? Maybe, but a 3rd HQ is Required. He can dish out some damage and/or provide some support and is fast enough to join up with any of the other elements.


Thoughts? Comments? Criticism?


Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 13:53:56


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Tomb World!
Im a silent reader of this forum (started with the unit grading index forum) and I really liked the information and the discussions here. My number 1 source for Necron tactics.

As a advanced noob gamer (startet 7th edition) Ive some questions concerning our new codex and FW units.

So in Chapter Approved they increased the point costs of the Big Pylon. Now with the codex we got some nice point reductions for our units so how viable is the Pylon now?

Another thing is: Our Vehicles beeing T6 which makes them easier to wound for autocanons and all those quad heavy supa dupa boltah!! IG and SM have. The DDA has at least 72“ range so its not such a problem to hide it in the back corner but how about the stalker? The heavy Gauss is still only 2 shots and the Heat Gun is 24“ which means you have to get closer to the enemy and his/hers S6/7 10plusy shots.

My last question is about wounding T7+. I dont have Destroyers but i will definitely try them plus the new stratagem. But we dont have anything except our anti tank that is wounding T7 at least on 4s right? I know its probably about weight of heavy fire from the destroyers but at least wounding T7 on 4s would be nice.
I asked myself this while looking at the new Forgebane box. Those 2 mini knights are T7. Everything in the box wounds on 5 except you run Scytheguard. You dont even have enough fire power with only 10 (in rapid fire) shots from the Immortals.
It just hits me that such an advanced race as the necrons wound light armoured vehicles on 5 and our Vehicles are as tough as some characters. In 7th you had the Gauss rule but thats not a thing anymore.

Sorry for long post.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:03:43


 
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them


That's a decent Idea actually. should free up some points too.

I like your list. I can't remember how the maths worked out for Gauss vs Tesla on Mephrit Dynasty but I think you should consider Tesla for your Tomb Blades. They are definitely better than Gauss vs most targets when outside of 12" and I think they do pretty well within that range. You need to run the numbers and maybe try one unit of each to begin with.

   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Destroyers will wound T7 on fires, not 4s. Their weapons are still below S7.
Heavy Destroyers, who have a S9 gun, will wound T7 on 3s.
Annihilation Barges have a S7 weapon, so that will wound T7 on 4s.

Yeah, the forge bane box seems to shaft necrons. I guess if you get the charge off with scytheguard you can probably kill an armiger, as you are looking at about 10 attacks, wound on 4+ (S5+2) and dealing 2 damage each.

What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...


Unfortunately, in turns of army design we're still weak against vehicles, as we can't spam anti-tank like everyone else.
Which is why gauss used to have an anti-vehicle rule.

Its better now, as destroyers and the DDA did get a bit of a buff, but its still not that strong compared to other armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:17:46


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ie
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them


That's a decent Idea actually. should free up some points too.

I like your list. I can't remember how the maths worked out for Gauss vs Tesla on Mephrit Dynasty but I think you should consider Tesla for your Tomb Blades. They are definitely better than Gauss vs most targets when outside of 12" and I think they do pretty well within that range. You need to run the numbers and maybe try one unit of each to begin with.



I am not a fan of Tesla on Tomb Blades. They move 14" meaning they are the best unit to put Gauss on. They also can't be MWBD or CW by an Overlord/CCB so you'll be popping your Tesla on 6s. Is a few extra hits at -1 better then a solid -2/-3 AP on a bike that can get into RF range without the need for deepstriking or being moved via the Deceiver?

In every Dynasty, besides Mephrit, Tomb Blades should have Gauss (imo). I rather run Tesla Immortals who can pop on them on 5s via MWBD/CW(or 4s if using Sautekh and it's Stratagem).

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Wouldn't gauss work best with mephrit, as you can get a -3 save mod? Mephrit works best with rapid fire, imo, as you'd want to be in rapid fire range anyway to use it to its fullest potential, and the distance for that tends to be the same as the mephrit buff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:24:11


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

 Odrankt wrote:



I am not a fan of Tesla on Tomb Blades. They move 14" meaning they are the best unit to put Gauss on. They also can't be MWBD or CW by an Overlord/CCB so you'll be popping your Tesla on 6s. Is a few extra hits at -1 better then a solid -2/-3 AP on a bike that can get into RF range without the need for deepstriking or being moved via the Deceiver?

In every Dynasty, besides Mephrit, Tomb Blades should have Gauss (imo). I rather run Tesla Immortals who can pop on them on 5s via MWBD/CW(or 4s if using Sautekh and it's Stratagem).


It really just comes down to the maths, which I don't have time to do right now, but I thought people had shown that tesla was better. However that may have been done for Immortals factoring in MWBD so might not apply to TBs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:22:31


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...


Unfortunately, in turns of army design we're still weak against vehicles, as we can't spam anti-tank like everyone else.
Which is why gauss used to have an anti-vehicle rule.

Its better now, as destroyers and the DDA did get a bit of a buff, but its still not that strong compared to other armies.


This.

I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).
   
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I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).


It's like a future soldier with a suoer powerful sniper rifle and a bullet deflecting energy shield finds himself in close combat against a caveman with a spikey club.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:30:32


 
   
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I'm sort of digging the concept of an all 'tough' list which relies little to nothing on our traditional toughness mechanics of reanimation protocols. Likely c'tan spam with a Tvault and possibly some wraiths backed with a few cryptecks. The goal being to provide no good target for low strength shooting. Not super competitive as it would lack an answer to hordes, but it'd probably be fun and have some strength against elites
   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


If your taking the obelisk your defiantly saving cp for the option to wound fliers on a 4+ instead of a 6+ with mortal wounds. I brought this up earlier I believe (could be in the other thread), that's a huge buff to its ability. That, plus deep strike, plus the tesla, the obelisk can potentially shut some armies down all together. Those are some nice, individual units of drones you have there tau. Hate to see anything bring them down. Oops, too late. :p

But yeah, after that it will die a horrible death to rail cannons I am sure :p. It needs an invulnerable or quantum shielding or something to help it out, as it stands its only protection is t8 and it's high wounds which won't go far.
   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't gauss work best with mephrit, as you can get a -3 save mod? Mephrit works best with rapid fire, imo, as you'd want to be in rapid fire range anyway to use it to its fullest potential, and the distance for that tends to be the same as the mephrit buff.


It depends on the unit my friend.

Mephrit Tesla Immortals buffed with MWBD out preform Gauss Immortals buffed by MWBD due to extra hits on 5s and 6s as well as everything being -1 if in half range. If you include the Stratagem that makes natural rolls of 6s to preform an extra hit also makes Tesla outshine Gauss even more if using Mephrit.

Gauss on Tomb Blades outshines Tesla in nearly everything though.Telsa is only better on TBs if your going up against massive squads of Orks, Poxwalkers, Cultists, Horrors etc. But that is situational at best.

If your running Immortals and Tomb Blades together then it better to have Tesla Immortals and Gauss Tomb Blades. But, if your only fielding Immortals or Tomb Blades it all depends on what you want them to do. Note that you can give some of your Tomb Blades Gauss and the others can have Tesla. It can help out the Tesla Immos vs Gauss T.Blades argument.

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Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
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Something like...

Spoiler:


Battalion:
Crypteck with cloak
CCB with Lord and Lightning Field

Immortal x5 x3 (backfield objectives)

Wraith x 6

Spearhead:
Crypteck with cloak

T C'tan
T C'tan
T'C'tan

Super Heavy
Vault




It'd end up being 9 powers of the c'tan a turn, probably about 20 mortal wounds per turn. Only valid targets are backfield immortals who will be out of range of a lot of stuff, will have cover for 2+ saves, wraiths which are horrible to fire at and the vault which is horrible to fire at. It will take a lot of shooting to break that wraith group, decent chance to pop back up. The assault strength would be pretty nasty as well with the c'tans, wraiths and CCB.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 14:45:04


 
   
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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

drakerocket wrote:
Something like...

Spoiler:


Battalion:
Crypteck with cloak
CCB with Lord and Lightning Field

Immortal x5 x3 (backfield objectives)

Wraith x 6

Spearhead:
Crypteck with cloak

T C'tan
T C'tan
T'C'tan

Super Heavy
Vault




It'd end up being 9 powers of the c'tan a turn, probably about 20 mortal wounds per turn. Only valid targets are backfield immortals who will be out of range of a lot of stuff, will have cover for 2+ saves, wraiths which are horrible to fire at and the vault which is horrible to fire at. It will take a lot of shooting to break that wraith group, decent chance to pop back up. The assault strength would be pretty nasty as well with the c'tans, wraiths and CCB.


I hate that this exists. But I really like the potential here.
I assume you are using the wraiths to screen the T-Ctan up the board. I'd worry a bit about deep striking threats wiping out your troops and keeping you from scoring. Otherwise, elite armies will suffer vs it. Vs hordes....they might fare better since they handle mortal wounds better.

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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
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ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).

I mean, stuff has to have a weakness or it's just overpowered. If your vehicle is exceptionally durable per point vs lascannons, it should be more fragile per point vs some other things.

It's true that there are currently 2 defensive profiles in the game that are often under-priced, and there are almost no good weapons for killing them, but this is certainly not a good thing for the game. There's basically no attack in the game that is more efficiently used against Guardsmen than against Space Marines: T3 5+ stuff is sometimes too cheap, and there are very few S2 or S3 weapons that would care a great deal about the difference between T3 and T4 (probably part of the reason there's no S2 is that it would be bizarrely efficient against T8). And then it's often very hard to get through T7 3+/4++, which is Hive Tyrants and Daemon Primarchs (and the Tesseract Vault). Again, this is partly due to a hole in weapon design -- what you want for this would be S8 AP-1 D:d6 or similar, but the closest you can find are krak missiles which are still wasting AP and are paying for a flexible firing mode rather than saving points on the worse-than-lascannon anti-tank profile. So this profile also ends up being under-priced more often than not. And then people need to bring so much inefficient AP-3 firepower to take these things down that more standard T7 3+ type things don't stand a chance in the meta.

Personally I think QS is really neat insofar as it lets you bring a few big vehicles without exposing yourself to lascannon fire, so you can field them alongside lots of smaller models. It's true that it ends up being really vulnerable to flat 2 or 3 damage weapons like plasma and Dark Reapers, but these are problematic for other reasons and GW should address them, hopefully soon.
   
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Still torn between Mephrit and Sautekh.

Mephrit will boost your firepower in short range by quite a bit, while Sautekh will allow your warriors and immortals to reach the enemy, which can be helpful if you face gunlines.
   
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Perth

Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

For people saying 2 ctan put out more Mw, you have to be very careful as you can’t pick the same power twice until all are chosen, you can spend a CP to get two but then you are still getting one weaker power.

The chart is good enough to warrant rolling for the upgrades, especially if your running two.

Necrons are still a very durable army, just not if you have a 7th ed mindset. Don’t expect RP to do anything for any unit that’s not t5 multi wound with a 3+ 5++.

Even destroyers aren’t awesome as you give up chronometron to get the cape......

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:08:57


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


T-C'tan having less wounds doesn't matter since they're Characters and can hide. Your Vault is going to be eating Lascannons/Missiles on turn 1 unless you Nephrekh DS it, the T-C'tan (or either of the others, for that matter) will be safe until they break through all your other stuff.

Spheres are then compared to the fact that the TVault can't combat - not much of an issue since it can Fly, but two T-C'tan will punch through most tough units in a turn with their very good combat statlines.

I'd say it's pretty comparable. Two T-C'tans with Cosmic Tyrant (or one choosing Cosmic Tyrant and one rolling two Personalities) will put out as much MWs per turn, but also be able to be hidden and punch things to death. I'd prefer the two T-C'tans personally as I don't like having one model worth 1/4 of the army, and also I don't own a Vault.
   
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Perth

 ThePie wrote:
Still torn between Mephrit and Sautekh.

Mephrit will boost your firepower in short range by quite a bit, while Sautekh will allow your warriors and immortals to reach the enemy, which can be helpful if you face gunlines.


I think mephrit is good for an alpha strike if you invest heavily in deployment options (A deciever, monolith/NS, veil and stratagems). That way you can get the stupid number of warriors/Gimmortals/destroyers into half range to start doing savage damage.

But the CP farming warlord trait, coming from running a gman heavy marine list for the past few months, is just head and shoulders above the rest. Especially considering how hard it is to get lots of CP being an expensive army. The good thing is that most of the good Strats are cheap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


T-C'tan having less wounds doesn't matter since they're Characters and can hide. Your Vault is going to be eating Lascannons/Missiles on turn 1 unless you Nephrekh DS it, the T-C'tan (or either of the others, for that matter) will be safe until they break through all your other stuff.

Spheres are then compared to the fact that the TVault can't combat - not much of an issue since it can Fly, but two T-C'tan will punch through most tough units in a turn with their very good combat statlines.

I'd say it's pretty comparable. Two T-C'tans with Cosmic Tyrant (or one choosing Cosmic Tyrant and one rolling two Personalities) will put out as much MWs per turn, but also be able to be hidden and punch things to death. I'd prefer the two T-C'tans personally as I don't like having one model worth 1/4 of the army, and also I don't own a Vault.


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:10:36


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 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

For people saying 2 ctan put out more Mw, you have to be very careful as you can’t pick the same power twice until all are chosen, you can spend a CP to get two but then you are still getting one weaker power.

The chart is good enough to warrant rolling for the upgrades, especially if your running two.

Necrons are still a very durable army, just not if you have a 7th ed mindset. Don’t expect RP to do anything for any unit that’s not t5 multi wound with a 3+ 5++.

Even destroyers aren’t awesome as you give up chronometron to get the cape......


Vehicles were not durable before, and not much has changed. If you are leaning towards forgeworld though then whatever. Those units aren't in the codex so I wasn't discussing them. Sautek is certainly not worth it for the code. The warlord trait, strat and relic maybe, but the code really is so so. maybe it's good for Forgeworld stuff, but I don't touch forgeworld.
   
 
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