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 Klowny wrote:


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output


++ can be worked around somewhat with Entropic Strike now, to be fair.

Their preferred targets are multiwounds with no or poor Invuln, which do exist - Primaris are a thing, especially Aggressors, some of the Nid big bugs, most Vehicles don't have Invulns in combat. Hitting Characters as well is a valid choice, since even if their Invuln blocks some of your attacks, you only need a couple good D6 roll to pop most foot or bike heroes.

Obviously they're not clearing Hordes or MSU that well, though. But no matter what it's better than TVault hitting on 6" doing 1 Damage.
   
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 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

....


Agreed on the infantry being squishy.

I can't agree on Sautekhs Code though. It's by far the worst of the bunch. I played a game last night and it never came up. There are no units in the codex that get any great benefit from it, DDAs do not want to move. Stalkers don't get it anyway. Forgeworld stuff I can't comment on though. The stratagem was not as useful as I expected but still seems decent. The WL trait is brilliant no doubt.

   
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Sautekh does affect CCBarges with Guass underslung, I guess, or TBeamer Wraiths. However, Wraiths are not really there for their shooting prowess (and would rather be Novokh or Neprekh), while the CCB will just take Tesla instead.
   
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I'd still take the Gauss cannon over tesla. Its a damn fine gun even hitting on 3s.
   
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Perth

I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:27:38


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Darsath wrote:
Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.


You can't have the cloak and the cronometron though. Not a huge deal since destroyers don't need a cloaktek and TB can already take a 5++ but thought I would point that out in case anyone missed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dapperbandit wrote:
It'd be really nice if units with the Triarch codeword had their own in built ability. Having Stalkers and Praetorians that can't combo with your Dynasty Code, Dynasty abilities or Dynasty strategies is just awkward.

I know Praetorians have their own morale ability but something specific to the Triarch codeword itself that would work on Stalkers too would be nice.

Also

The question is, with the Transcendent C'Tan, do you pick Cosmic Tyrant for Fractured Personality or roll for two random abilities? The perfect roll for me would be Cosmic Tyrant and Transdimensional Displacement. Do an Assault move 20" up the board and then use two Powers of the C'Tan straight away.


It would fit the fluff if they made nearby units immune to moral as well. That would make a stalker a must take in phalanx builds though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:33:38


   
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Perth

Requizen wrote:
 Klowny wrote:


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output


++ can be worked around somewhat with Entropic Strike now, to be fair.

Their preferred targets are multiwounds with no or poor Invuln, which do exist - Primaris are a thing, especially Aggressors, some of the Nid big bugs, most Vehicles don't have Invulns in combat. Hitting Characters as well is a valid choice, since even if their Invuln blocks some of your attacks, you only need a couple good D6 roll to pop most foot or bike heroes.

Obviously they're not clearing Hordes or MSU that well, though. But no matter what it's better than TVault hitting on 6" doing 1 Damage.


I agree, but then again, with all the MW that are being spewed out, and the high quality shooting we have, marines were never a problem for us to take care of. Entropic strike is a single attack... I wouldn't burn a CP for it unless I desperately had to kill something.

S7 vs vehicles isnt that great, most of the time you are getting only 50% of your hits through as wounds, against t8 its even worse though :(

The Nightbringer IS a close combat monster, but that is because his shooting attack and the way he fights. You look at things really hard, kill a bunch, charge in, hit and wound on 2's, kill a bunch more, then fall back and look at stuff really angrily again and just eat things for breakfast. Now that he can do that while also spew mortal wounds.... he looks tasty.

Counter point is that the vault IS good at clearing hordes while still being super tough, and can pump out lots of MW a turn. At 2k I'm looking at a vault and either the Nightbringer or the T/C'tan, want to playtest if the 2nd power is worth losing the dakka of the nightbringer.... its nothing to shy away from. Plus he is the cheapest.


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

....


Agreed on the infantry being squishy.

I can't agree on Sautekhs Code though. It's by far the worst of the bunch. I played a game last night and it never came up. There are no units in the codex that get any great benefit from it, DDAs do not want to move. Stalkers don't get it anyway. Forgeworld stuff I can't comment on though. The stratagem was not as useful as I expected but still seems decent. The WL trait is brilliant no doubt.



DDA doesn't want to move, i give you that. Buf if it NEEDS to move, you can now move its full distance and advance extra, and still open up with its low power shots while also firing its flayer arrays. Compared to moving before, taking a penalty to shoot if you did or moving and advancing and not being able to shoot at all.

Red Corsair wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.


You can't have the cloak and the cronometron though. Not a huge deal since destroyers don't need a cloaktek and TB can already take a 5++ but thought I would point that out in case anyone missed it.


Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:38:39


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Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


He's barfing 3 powers but knows 4. Odds are your taking times arrow on the vault to burn it for better choices on any other C'tan in the list anyway, so it's not a big deal but on the vault could be. Don't know about you but lieutenants drive me nuts, same with that banner jerk, both die on a 4+ from the Tvault and take away a MAJOR boon.

   
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 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.
   
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Perth

Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.

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 Klowny wrote:
I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.



Why would you ever advance tomb blades an extra D6" to hit at -1? You only get one shot each if you do that so I can't imagine not being in range after a 14" move with a 24" range.

I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.

Sautekh seems like it will be good for some of the forgeworld stuff then and that's about it.


Sautekh reminds me of Ilyanden for eldar: it could do this, it could do that, but then I play a game and it doesn't even trigger once. Ilyanden and Sautekh are the only faction traits I have ever seen that just don't trigger all game.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 15:44:18


 
   
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Can you mix picks and rolls for the C'tan powers? Wording is kinda iffy. Like, can I pick Sky of Falling Stars/Transdimensional Thunderbolt on one, and then pick Antimatter Meteor on the next but roll for the second power, hoping to get Sky or TBolt again?
   
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I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
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Dionysodorus wrote:
I'm not really sold on the Vault, outside of maybe a spam list. It's really, really durable, sure, but its main output is just 3 enhanced C'tan powers. Mostly this enhancement isn't that great.

Compared to a regular C'tan, the Vault is:
13% better with Antimatter Meteor
No better at killing W1 models with Time's Arrow, and 33% better at killing W3 models
25% better at hitting 5-model units with Sky of Falling Stars, and no better at hitting 6+ units, though of course infinitely better at hitting single models (but this is inefficient)
33% better at Cosmic Fire, plus it's bigger so might be closer to more units (on the other hand a regular C'tan probably has an easier time running into the middle of a bunch of enemy units).
100% better at Seismic Assault, though you need a pretty big unit still to make this better than other options
33% better against the initial target of Transdimensional Thunderbolt, and no better against everything around it

2 T'C'tans put out more MWs unless you're staring down something like a Boyz horde, and they cost less. They're more fragile but they're characters, and they're also pretty decent in CC. Plus you can use a stratagem to duplicate a power across the T'C'tans to get multiple casts of Sky or whatever other power is best-suited for the game.


Your forgetting the biggest flaw. The powers occur in the movement phase, meaning you cannot use the 4 spheres for clearing chaf turn 1. So more then likely your first turn is going to be meh. for referrence, my guard and my chaos both run 40 or more 4 point models at the front. They screen back drop troops from melta range on my good units. This means you hardly ever going to be targeting my good units and mostly just obliterating the dude I want you to obliterate. I think 3 vaults in one list is hilarious because if you sit them on objectives it becomes impossible for certain armies to get them off and you can just MW the crap out of any units that come charging in but I am thinking 2 Transtans are better then a single vault in any normal build.

   
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Probably not competitive though


That was my thinking.
   
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Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?

I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
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Perth

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.



Why would you ever advance tomb blades an extra D6" to hit at -1? You only get one shot each if you do that so I can't imagine not being in range after a 14" move with a 24" range.

I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.

Sautekh seems like it will be good for some of the forgeworld stuff then and that's about it.


Sautekh reminds me of Ilyanden for eldar: it could do this, it could do that, but then I play a game and it doesn't even trigger once. Ilyanden and Sautekh are the only faction traits I have ever seen that just don't trigger all game.




I dont think much of hte DS either, but its the only dynasty you get a buff for it...

Lets say, its late game, you need to get an objective that has 5 marines on it.... and its 18" away. Sautekh can reach it, blast the marines, and cap the objective. No other dynasty can.

i have had many opportunities where I needed to advance my TB, but couldnt because I needed the firepower. Now you get both.

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UK, Midlands

Lets say, its late game, you need to get an objective that has 5 marines on it.... and its 18" away. Sautekh can reach it, blast the marines, and cap the objective. No other dynasty can.


You're really really reaching here.

The tomb blades could just shoot a bit then charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:01:12


 
   
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Perth

I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:10:42


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Ute nation

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Destroyers will wound T7 on fires, not 4s. Their weapons are still below S7.
Heavy Destroyers, who have a S9 gun, will wound T7 on 3s.
Annihilation Barges have a S7 weapon, so that will wound T7 on 4s.

Yeah, the forge bane box seems to shaft necrons. I guess if you get the charge off with scytheguard you can probably kill an armiger, as you are looking at about 10 attacks, wound on 4+ (S5+2) and dealing 2 damage each.


As shown seems like a fair fight, because the three wraiths are a good match for an armiger, especially if they get the drop on him. Things are a little less in necrons favor with lychguard vs Armiger, at least with dispersion shields. The ten man Skitarii unit is in a rough spot against the immortals, Gauss blasters/tesla carbines are just the better guns, and immortals are the tougher unit. The two leaders are less beatsticks and more unit support, The Dominus is in a better spot to support since he can repair the armigers, if he can get to them, but the Cryptek is more mobile and the staff of Light is a much better weapon.


Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


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 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Odrankt wrote:
I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.


That strat is garbage, it's existed in every marine book for vindicators and has never been good. Also, not sure on the math, but while your gaining +1 to hit on the main gun, mephrit for example will make all those destructors -1. Doomscythe is definitely OK from sautek, but it is so expensive. I think it's gun needed to be 3 shots. Right now it's over 100 points per shot with a -1 to hit ignoring traits. It is averaging 2 shots for 100 points per shot. A predator annihilator pays around 50 points per shot. I think the DDA is head an shoulders above the doomS unfortunately and it doesn't want to move do to it's main gun anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:23:53


   
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Perth

 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Ah yep, my apologies mate Yeah I see what your saying now

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 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.



Only issue I have with that, is when you DS Nephrekh Destroyers, there's no way for a Foot Cryptek to catch up, while a Nephrekh Cloaktek is moving 16" to get into support range of them. But hopefully, your DS Destroyers will be dropping into a safe location and killing enough anyway.
   
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 Klowny wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Ah yep, my apologies mate Yeah I see what your saying now


I could have made it more clear, no worries

   
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Perth

 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Odrankt wrote:
I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.


That strat is garbage, it's existed in every marine book for vindicators and has never been good. Also, not sure on the math, but while your gaining +1 to hit on the main gun, mephrit for example will make all those destructors -1. Doomscythe is definitely OK from sautek, but it is so expensive. I think it's gun needed to be 3 shots. Right now it's over 100 points per shot with a -1 to hit ignoring traits. It is averaging 2 shots for 100 points per shot. A predator annihilator pays around 50 points per shot. I think the DDA is head an shoulders above the doomS unfortunately and it doesn't want to move do to it's main gun anyway.


Yeah I agree, my point wasn't if a DS was good, just saying sautekh improves it quite a lot. Mephrit does too.

And yeah, a DDA doesnt want to move, but if it gets hugged you dont have a massive penalty like you used to, unlike any other dynasty where it gets hugged, its now -1 to hit on its baby profile :(

Or if you spy a nasty CC threat on the horizon, you get the hell out of dodge, move the full distance in the opposite direction, advance d6, and can still shoot your flayer arrays and baby profile. Which you cant do with any other dynasty...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:32:06


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UK, Midlands

 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??

   
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Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:37:36


   
Made in gb
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UK, Midlands

 Red Corsair wrote:




I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


Oh I agree, I was just going for a little example. The Nihilakh strat is also interesting for the potential 2++ sv on Wraith.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:39:50


 
   
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Just deploy it:
<DoomsDayArk> <DoomsDayArk> <DoomsDayArk>
......................................(Lord)...................................................

The Stupid long hull that you can shoot off any point should mean you never really need to move, it also backlines most of your Dzone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:41:32


   
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 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.
   
 
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