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So while we may not have an auto-include solution for GEQ, we should still have a tactics discussion on how to handle it, regardless if it's that popular in your meta or not. The ideal list should have some strategy for any opposing list. Not a "Well, I'm against a horde or LoW army, this looks like a loss" mentality.

For melee horde and DS bombs, I intend to include a few units of scarabs as a screen. First case, meet the melee horde and lock them up from getting to your main units. Second case, for DS bombs, keep them out of RF or pile in range from your main units. You won't be able to avoid the DS, but you can mitigate its effectiveness. Similarly, if they don't wipe out the scarabs and target your main units instead, charge them and lock them up.

For imperial soup brigade, like other have mentioned, the damage output is pretty low on these guys at 24". You're setting yourself up for a bad time if you get in RF range of them though. Unless you're trying to steal an objective or don't have any better target, I wouldn't bother targeting these.

For LoW and ++ saves, bring those C'tan powers, scarab MW, and high volume of shots. Tesla and rapid fire will shine right here.

So balanced army for me would look something like,

Nephrekh dynasty: Bring assault weapons and outrun horde armies long enough to wittle them down. Easy way to get your wraiths in their back line. DS your destroyers so they don't get wiped turn 1. Ez range closer for your C'tan powers. If your spending 225+ on one unit, some value should be coming from it every turn. Scarabs multi use as screens, tarpit, and mortal wound machines!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Shuddl

Your strat sounds very similar to what I'm aiming for. Thanks for the write up!

Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?

 Therion wrote:
You seem to have a lot of rage towards the ITC format despite its obvious popularity in the US.

That said, where I play in Europe we don’t use ITC for anything (We use rulebook, Chapter Approved, Beta rules and the ETC FAQ). We use Eternal War and Maelstrom missions simultaneously (2 sets of objectives, Eternal War and the Tactical Objectives). Our tournaments have more time allocated per game than in the US and 95% are played to natural completion.

I’m frankly amused by your hostility. All I did was point out an obvious flaw in the Necron strengths and weaknesses -analysis. The reality is that hordes exist and they are very competitive and flexible. Everyone could’ve just been polite and say that my concerns about Necrons don’t apply to them because their meta is different, but instead people went to war against the standard tournament meta like it’s my fault personally that competitive people like to push their army lists to the extreme limits.

I'll quickly point out one more thing here I didn't point out. Your ascribing your meta as being the universal standard, and posting lists with 150-250 models and claiming your games are finishing 95% of the time. You must be playing incredibly long games... Average game length I have played in is 2.5 hours including set up.

Yes, the tournaments here have the luxury of giving 3 hours per match, and players are given bonus soft scores for finishing the game in time. It’s a legitimate issue and a talking point, but not one that can’t be solved globally.

What’s this Lord aura everyone is referring to? I missed it from the summaries and I don’t see it on Page 1?

sieGermans wrote:
What’s this Lord aura everyone is referring to? I missed it from the summaries and I don’t see it on Page 1?

For some HQ units, they have the ability:

Lord's Will: Reroll wound rolls of 1 for <DYNASTY> Infantry units that are within 6" of this model.

sieGermans wrote:
What’s this Lord aura everyone is referring to? I missed it from the summaries and I don’t see it on Page 1?

Instead of rerolling morale Lords reroll 1s to wound.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
What’s this Lord aura everyone is referring to? I missed it from the summaries and I don’t see it on Page 1?

Instead of rerolling morale Lords reroll 1s to wound.

As NP pointed out and some people seem to be missing it has the stipulation of Dynasty and Infantry.

So no Artillery lord reroll 1's.

 Lothmar wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
What’s this Lord aura everyone is referring to? I missed it from the summaries and I don’t see it on Page 1?

Instead of rerolling morale Lords reroll 1s to wound.

As NP pointed out and some people seem to be missing it has the stipulation of Dynasty and Infantry.

So no Artillery lord reroll 1's.

Yeah, that's true. Still more useful than before.

 Therion wrote:
Yes, the tournaments here have the luxury of giving 3 hours per match, and players are given bonus soft scores for finishing the game in time. It’s a legitimate issue and a talking point, but not one that can’t be solved globally.

I agree, but that right there is just one way in which your meta is unique. That was my main point, you can't assume your meta across the globe. Also, and this doesn't necessarily pertain to your therion, but the idea that because someones meta is not a certain paradigm it shouldn't dictate whether their ideas or concerns are suddenly laughable or invalid. Size of the event, missions, round length etc. all have major impacts on the success of certain builds.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


Which is pointless. Those GT's are all garbage lol. Half the player packets are full of house ruled or bogus callings or they have patched the missions to oblivion. On top of that, those games get a max of 2 turns in. GEQ are running amuck currently BECAUSE so many suckers cater to that environment.

Currently players in those environments know exactly how much time a game has, exactly how the missions will be scored and laughably use set objective placement. One of the MOST tactical elements in the game, and these mega events removed it. It;s a farce, all you need to do currently is hop to the codex that gets the most bodies for the cheapest cost and has a reliable way to advance deploy.

I have played those lists in pick up games where I can't be slow played using random book missions and utterly removed them. Guardsmen are always good for screening, but currently hordes are ruining events. That needs to be separated here. Playing ITC is not playing 40k. It's like Pathfinder, similar, but modified heavily. They tell you where objectives are, the game will last 6 turn (which is a joke when they can't make it to 3) and on top of that they home brew mission objectives entirely. The reaper is the most awful designed objective I have ever seen for example. Writing a mission where taking a heavy weapon team circumvents the point? Play testers eh?

Look dude, you might be a good player, but it's hard to take anyone seriously when you say things like "tournament lists are a joke, I can beat them all". Where are your GT victories? Got any podium finishes from 50-100+ person events? Me neither, but I'm not the one calling out the people who do crush tournaments on a consistent basis.

If you think the only reason people win events is because of slow play, you've never seriously competed at a top table.

I didn't say I can beat them all. Where did I say that? I also never said slow play was the sole factor, so please stop trying to speak for me. Slow play is THE biggest talking point currently btw, it may not be the sole factor, but it's currently one of the biggest.

BTW the biggest tournament in the world just concluded a little over a month ago and GEQ were there in force but 2 made it to the top 8 and both were bizarre builds unlike what people are discussing. There was even a primaris blood angel list in the top 8 wrecking face.

Edit: I'll add, those players winning are very good because they are aware of the format and how to gain an edge. Your the one that seems to think that net lists are where the buck stops. I am telling you it stops where it does based on the format.

As someone who went to LVO I can say those GEQ list were not bizarre at all. Really amazing yes but crazy not even in the slightest actually they just used mortars and infantry. It was for once a build of things displayed right on the box lol. No crazy tricks just a bunch of mortar infantry and give them Catachan with a ministrum priest for more toughness and attacks then a space marine. Also that Pure blood angel list did not wreck face sadly. He faced noobs member this is a Las vegas Open where any one can go. And he didnt face a single Eldar player till those last rounds which he got bent over. Sadly his was luck. And he also cheated against Jared the Alpha Legion player when he blew up his fire raptor playing out of order and they didnt catch till after. LETS get back to the topic though because right now we are all just talking about things that dont matter or things we dont actually know about.

 Lothmar wrote:
Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?

I see you keep asking. We don't know really.

1. How I would play it, is that the Abyssal Staff works against base leadership for the squad (So, Like a Ork Nob's Leadership in a boy squad)
2. I believe Phaeron's will would give you an additional use of MWBD, making Immotek's total go to 3.
3. I took it to be a Rez Orb that grants an additional +1 to Reanimations when used.

Hope that helps.

Iguy - Yeah figured i'd post that on new pages when I was online if it went a page without an answer.

Hopefully someone might notice in this fast paced discussion thread you know? *chuckle*

I kind of came to the same conclusions but I wanted to basically confirm my interpretations. Thanks for the response.

@blue Beetle, that's awesome, glad to here you were able to go. I had everything in order this year but then couldn't make the trip. I have a strange schedule so it's hard to get the time coupled with logistical pains. Only flights I could arrange required an entire days layover in Jersey both ways....

The fact that a BA player got to top 8 though kind of sheds hope on the GEQ/cron situation. BTW he is a very good player, featured on FLG as well. I think suggesting he had a free ride to the top 8 is a bit unfair.

What are you guys thinking with regard to troops?

If you take Immortals, would you take them in units of 10, or just minimum squads to make up a Battalion?

Also, do you think a Brigade will be practical for Necrons in this codex?

I read lightning field and thought to myself 'its a shame you cant give this to a nearby allied unit' to extend the effect.

Admittedly I kind of chuckled at the idea of a Catacomb command barge side profile charging multiple potential targets just to cause as many potential mortal wounds as possible. *chuckle*

The Necron Leak video has finally been taken down. Glad I downloaded it just in case!

For dealing with Superheavies/LoW spam, is the Pylon not an attractive choice? It's certainly expensive, but less so than the TVault, and provides a 5++ aura to all Necron units within its radius.

Drak -

I find it is only really attractive if that super heavy/low spam has the 'titanic' keyword since that's more damage. ^_^

Now as part of an artillery support line with a few DDA's and some support staff like spyders (to round out a heavy detachment) while your 2 TV's (to fill out the low detachment ) keep them distracted

 Red Corsair wrote:
@blue Beetle, that's awesome, glad to here you were able to go. I had everything in order this year but then couldn't make the trip. I have a strange schedule so it's hard to get the time coupled with logistical pains. Only flights I could arrange required an entire days layover in Jersey both ways....

The fact that a BA player got to top 8 though kind of sheds hope on the GEQ/cron situation. BTW he is a very good player, featured on FLG as well. I think suggesting he had a free ride to the top 8 is a bit unfair.

LVO was awesome but lots of headaches. I hear BAO is the most fun of all the events
Yeah no he is an amazing player Id never take that from him but it did show that the only known player he faced from a team was Jared and he beat Jared with an illegal move on accident I dont think it was on purpose at all. And then when he faced Eldar known player he completely crumbled. He also stated this edition he hasn't won a single tournament with that army and then at LVO he's in top 8 so he was so surprised but I do think he's very good just got a good draw of rounds at first. Even a top soup player said if he would have faced against the death guard tank list he would have lost but he never did and that guys list didnt get to the top at all.

'Nephrekh:
Advance 6" automatically (7" with MWBD) and ignore terrain & models.'

Could this be used with assault weapons to kite models? The tesla weapons could seem coold. Keep a model nearby that gives +1 to hit. So just adapt as you need, keeping 24" away, or just melt a unit.

Wraights probably also could help in this. Are there any other units that could benefit from movement?

Nil -

While yes its helpful for overall coverage of area Im not seeing a way to advance and still charge. Granted if you're looking to have highly mobile assault weapon units this will get you where you need to go.

Heck if the enemy positions badly too or is using defenses or line of sight blocking terrain to keep a model safe you can probably really surprise them by walking straight through it instead of having to waste your inches climbing etc. *Moves straight through screen at barricade and shoots units beyond*

It's not overly useful on our flyers, in that they can already ignore models by going over etc. Though for cases of cover and extra distance it might be a good surprise... Praets still not dynasty so they cant go ham with this...

I'd say it'd be ok for a certain style of Triarch stalker play, but Sautek is probably better for most artillery.

Probably very helpful for objective holding scarabs.

Might help Repair spyders keep up with vehicles they're supporting...

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Yes, the tournaments here have the luxury of giving 3 hours per match, and players are given bonus soft scores for finishing the game in time. It’s a legitimate issue and a talking point, but not one that can’t be solved globally.

I agree, but that right there is just one way in which your meta is unique. That was my main point, you can't assume your meta across the globe. Also, and this doesn't necessarily pertain to your therion, but the idea that because someones meta is not a certain paradigm it shouldn't dictate whether their ideas or concerns are suddenly laughable or invalid. Size of the event, missions, round length etc. all have major impacts on the success of certain builds.

It's not unique in the slightest. Just because this is an English speaking forum doesn't mean that extremely skilled 40K players and active scenes don't exist in countries like Germany, Poland, Italy, Russia, Belgium etc. And yes, I stick to the word laughable. Statements like 'GEQ aren't really played at tournaments' without any sort of disclaimers are exactly that. Laughable. I'm not sure why you take offence in comments like that, considering it's not you who posted that comment, and you're usually trying to keep an objective view on things.

Jesus, GTFO with measuring who has bigger tesla rod... it reminds me 5th ed discussions in IG threads...

Can we, pleeeeaaaase, just talk about units and strategies from the beta codex? Because, surprise, surprise, there is middle ground (a lot of it actually) between "tournament lists" and "just throw some models into bag, because you like it"...

---- are we there? yes? -----


Personally Im slightly annoyed with Pretorians...I cant see their place...its utility and price is simply hobbling them IMO...

As for the GEQ, anything is dangerous if you are not prepared for it, and it's hard for the leaked codex necrons to prepare for GEQ. It doesn't matter if the list that is strong against Necrons is destined to finish 1-5, it's still a problem for us because it will be hard for us to be on the correct side of the dash.

Immortals and tomb blades with tesla are our best bet. Fortunately, both of those units are fairly good overall, so aren't a chore to include in a tournament list. I think mephrit gives them the best dynasty code for tesla and the best stratagem to deal with GEQ (talent for annihilation). With that as a required component of your army, what kind of list do you build around that to handle other army styles?

Maybe we leave our CC units in the box and focus on short range firefights and mobility?

Gru Chimes in:

I'm going to focus on Destroyers, TB with different loadouts and DDA, maybe Ctan. This is not super competitive but might work.
Maybe Annihilation barges loadout will work, they move, ignore heavy penalties. Not the best one for sure.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm going to focus on Destroyers, TB with different loadouts and DDA, maybe Ctan. This is not super competitive but might work.
Maybe Annihilation barges loadout will work, they move, ignore heavy penalties. Not the best one for sure.

Annihilation Barges feel too expensive to be honest.

Yeah, I'm actually surprised anni barges didn't get a price cut.
Maybe they will drop some of the points on release, because apparently the leak is a beta.

 Grimgold wrote:
As for the GEQ, anything is dangerous if you are not prepared for it, and it's hard for the leaked codex necrons to prepare for GEQ. It doesn't matter if the list that is strong against Necrons is destined to finish 1-5, it's still a problem for us because it will be hard for us to be on the correct side of the dash.

Immortals and tomb blades with tesla are our best bet. Fortunately, both of those units are fairly good overall, so aren't a chore to include in a tournament list. I think mephrit gives them the best dynasty code for tesla and the best stratagem to deal with GEQ (talent for annihilation). With that as a required component of your army, what kind of list do you build around that to handle other army styles?

Maybe we leave our CC units in the box and focus on short range firefights and mobility?

Gru Chimes in:

Spoiler:

Does Talent for Annihilation work better than Methodical Destruction? I like that it's 1 CP, but it only affects one unit per turn.

For Mephrit I'm not sure if I would change the core of the list too much. Area denial and screening are important, so even if I wasn't using it for Destroyers, an Outrider detachment for Scarabs would be in most of the lists I make.

What warlord would you run in Mephrit? I'm not sold on the character sniper yet, because of how close it wants me to get. If I'm in that range, I'd personally be tempted by Thrall of the Silent King with a Lightning Field, instead.

Can we just drop the"Meta" debate. Most of us don't care whose "Meta" is bigger than whose.

I wasn’t saying that because other armies can deal with GEQ that talking about dealing them was invalidated, we got sidetracked, I was just curious if those lists actually perform well (as they wouldn’t fare so well in the meta here) and it devolved from there

My point was, while those extreme lists may be hard to deal with, they are hard to deal with for a lot of armies and shouldn’t be the sole focus for a necron army, as if you build to counter a specific style you will probably not even come up against it. For example at a 60 man tournament recently I doubled down on hyper elite, anti horde style marines and only faced tank gunlines all day

I think every solid necron list should at least have some tools to deal with GEQ, but they should also be able to answer TEQ and MEQ while still being able to kill some tanks a turn.

Due to how low volume our guns are, Necrons are just as vulnerable to facing 18 IG tanks as they are 200 IG bodies.

We should play to our strengths, this is what this forum is for, is finding those strengths, and then individually we assess our metas (which are WILDLY different if what everyone says here is legit) and build lists to suit.

As we don’t play ITC over here our meta is more elite, vehicle and superheavy focused, so I am more looking into ways to kill multiple tanks than I am clearing 1000000000 grunts.

My apologies if I came off indignant and dismissive before.