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Tentative list ideas, using Beta points:

Nephrekh Outrider

Cloaktek w/ Veil of Darkness
6x Destroyers
5x Wraiths
3x Scarabs

Sautekh Battalion
Chronotek
Overlord w/ Scythe, Hyperlogical Strategist
17x Warriors
17x Warriors
10x Immortals
Ghost Ark
2x Tomb Sentinels w/ Gloom

The idea being you Deep Strike the Destroyers, Veil up the Cloaktek and Wraiths, and then roll up the Battalion as a Silver Tide, except for the two tunneling Sentinels that pop up with the other stuff, generally to wreck tanks.

Alternatively, I could do Tomb Blades over the Wraiths (like... 7 of them). Same basic premise though.

Thoughts? Seem competitive or just mediocre?? Too gimmicky?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't think they will get a +1 to strength though, as then what's the point of taking scythes?

Even if Hyperphase Swords ended up at Str 6, Scythes still have 1 better AP, 1 better Str and most importantly, 1 better damage.

LG with Swords will get bogged down by vehicles and heavy monsters. LG with Scythes won't.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't think they will get a +1 to strength though, as then what's the point of taking scythes?

Even if Hyperphase Swords ended up at Str 6, Scythes still have 1 better AP, 1 better Str and most importantly, 1 better damage.

LG with Swords will get bogged down by vehicles and heavy monsters. LG with Scythes won't.

Yeah, but scytheguard will get killed easier.
Idk, it doesn't seem right to me. I guess it depends on points costs in the end.

Cth - Yeah but the strats real strength only kicks in if they keep firing group after group at you after learning the effect.

Basically the earlier you use it the more bang your getting out of it because of the imrpoved saves but at the same time, the earlier you use it the more likely they are to use those weapons elsewhere which makes me want to consider trying to bait out the meh weapons and then only activating it for the heavier stuff so it has more of an effect if it does rebound.

Isn't the effect always the same though? Its for each roll of a 6 to save, no matter the weapon, the enemy receives a mortal wound, isn't it? In that case, wouldn't it be better to use it against massed small arms fire?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't the effect always the same though? Its for each roll of a 6 to save, no matter the weapon, the enemy receives a mortal wound, isn't it? In that case, wouldn't it be better to use it against massed small arms fire?

Hmm, ok yeah I went back to check~ Yeah the invul becomes 3 and you rebound a mortal wound to the source for every 6. Sorry thought it was rebound the attack on a 6. Yeah against mass small this is better.

Yeah, in 5th ed the shield redirected the attack. In 8th its just a mortal wound. Which is both great and lame.
Great because its another source of mortal wounds, which is always nice.
Lame because it doesn't scale with the attacking weapon. A reflected lascannon will have the same effect as a reflected lasgun. I wish it would inflict a number of mortal wounds equal to the attacking weapon's damage stat. That would be deliciously rage inducing.

I don't think there are many situations where the reflection strat will actually be worth it; one is if you're getting shot by cawl bots, in which case you kill 1.5 kastellans with the stratagem. Outside of that I can't think of any units that do the massive volume of wounds necessary for the reflect to get value.

Does anyone recall the restrictions on the Lord aura of re-roll to-wound of 1s (assuming that's the case)?

Infantry only for the lord.

So after reading and thinking here is the first pass at necron salad:



I wanted to do more with the Novokh detachment but all of our good CC units are so expensive, I just ended up adding more scarabs with leftover points. I went pretty bare bones on the rest, following the old necron adage (if it's worth taking it's worth taking at max unit size) with the destroyers and tomb blades, without mephrit tesla didn't make sense on the tomb blades. I went with warriors because ob sec is a numbers game, I was already planning on taking immortal pride as the warlord trait, so grabbing a foot cryptek with a chronometron was a logical second HQ choice. Obviously 1 CP is already spoken for with putting the destroyers into deep strike reserve. I'm also debating using a second one on upgrading the canoptek cloak Cryptek to the solar staff, good dakka on it and getting rid of overwatch will help melee units.

After putting this list together my worry is I don't have much in the way of crowd clearing, so I may may end up switching it back to mephrit because tesla tomb blades are our best unit for that, and talent for annihilation can do work with that many shots.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I don't think there are many situations where the reflection strat will actually be worth it; one is if you're getting shot by cawl bots, in which case you kill 1.5 kastellans with the stratagem. Outside of that I can't think of any units that do the massive volume of wounds necessary for the reflect to get value.

Riptides.

v0iddrgn wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I don't think there are many situations where the reflection strat will actually be worth it; one is if you're getting shot by cawl bots, in which case you kill 1.5 kastellans with the stratagem. Outside of that I can't think of any units that do the massive volume of wounds necessary for the reflect to get value.

Riptides.

Even against a Riptide that has been augmented for pure quantity of shots, totaling out to 30 shots (Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon: 18, Smart Missile System x2: 8, Shielded Missile Drones w/ Missile Pod x2: 4), they only suffer 9.333 wounds. 1/6th of 9.333 is 1.5555, which gives us an average of only 1-2 mortal wounds reflected back.

I honestly think that Dispersion Field Amplification is mainly meant to increase the durability of the Lychgaurd when they are being hit with a lot of -1 AP D2+ weapons, and the reflected mortal wounds is just an added bonus.

It also makes players will think twice about dedicating any more of their shots into a 14-20 Wound Unit with 3++, especially when there is a chance that shooting at the Lychgaurd will hurt them as well. You could advance the Lychgaurd into the opponent's face and pop the strat when they try to kill you with high damage weapons. You will likely only lose a few models, and then they will have to decide on whether dedicating anymore fire into them would be a worthy investment. If they dedicate more fire into them, that is less pressure on the rest of your army and into a very durable unit that has a decent chance of surviving depending on the army you are against, as well as a few mortal wounds onto your opponent. If not, you have a chance to RP the lost models back once its your turn and can have the Lychgaurd potentially charge into their army.

All in all, it seems more of a durability enhancer as well as something that makes your opponent think twice about targeting them any further, and also has the added bonus of doing a few mortal wounds to your opponent. A really good Stratagem imo which fits what board and sword Lychgaurd are suppose to do.

I’m considering this and would love some feedback!
Outrider Detachment
Nephrekh Dynasty
HQ:
Kutlakh the World Killer
Toholk the Blinded

Elites:
10x Warscythe Lychguard

Fast Attack:
7x Arab Swarms
6x Arab Swarms
5x Wraith
6x Wraith

Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
No Dynasty
LoW:
Gauss Pylon

Total: 1989/2000
Total CP: 4

Main idea is to get into combat as quick as possible.Tohold allows me to go first a bit more frequently while providing a bonus if I need to have the Pylon on the table turn 1. Kutlakh let's me run and charge, and the Dynasty always gives me 6" runs.

Guys,
PLEASE
Stick lists under spoilers.

This is the tactics discussion thread. Posting lists here is pretty much off topic but we're willing to look at them, but please consider that lists are long and make an already long thread even longer. People coming here to learn about the new codex don't want to have to wade through page after page of irrelevant posts.
Just... please be considerate and post your lists under spoilers.
(I guess I should edit the top post to say that as well so we don't keep getting people coming in and doing so here).

sieGermans wrote:
Does anyone recall the restrictions on the Lord aura of re-roll to-wound of 1s (assuming that's the case)?

Infantry <Dynasty> only.

Da W wrote:So it's all Destroyers -
You can MWBD pretorians, and they also have their +1 to hit own stratagem.

MWBD targets a "friendly <Dynasty> Infantry unit." While Triarch Praetorians are Infantry, they cannot benefit from a Dynastic Code.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Nephrekh Outrider

Cloaktek w/ Veil of Darkness
6x Destroyers
5x Wraiths
3x Scarabs

Sautekh Battalion
. . .
The idea being you Deep Strike the Destroyers, Veil up the Cloaktek and Wraiths, and then . . .

Thoughts? Seem competitive or just mediocre?? Too gimmicky?

Veil of Darkness allows the user to move "one friendly <Dynasty> Infantry unit." Canoptek Wraiths are not Infantry (they are Beasts). Canoptek Scarabs are also not Infantry, they are Swarms. In your list, the Veil of Darkness can only be used to move itself and the unit of Destroyers.

grimgold wrote:

Detachment 1 - Novokh Outrider
HQ
Lord 73
w/ warscythe 11
Relic: Veil of darkness

Fast attack
6 x Wraiths 330

5 x Scarabs 65

5 x Scarabs 65

Same comment as above. Your Lord can only use his Veil of Darkness for himself in your detachment - he cannot bring the Wraiths or Scarabs with him.

Additionally, his The Lord's Will ability only allows "friendly <Dynasty> Infantry units" to re-roll wound rolls of 1, so he is a raw 84 points of dead-weight other than trying to take something out with his warscythe.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Tentative list ideas, using Beta points:

Nephrekh Outrider

Cloaktek w/ Veil of Darkness
6x Destroyers
5x Wraiths
3x Scarabs
[...]

I always would use a Chronotec for supporting Destroyers. The additional 5++ benefits them more in my experience. Sure, you lack some more mobility with the cloak now, but still. My Destroyers always get massively shot with heavy multiwound stuff.

hirojlance wrote:

Da W wrote: You can MWBD pretorians, and they also have their +1 to hit own stratagem.

MWBD targets a "friendly <Dynasty> Infantry unit." While Triarch Praetorians are Infantry, they cannot benefit from a Dynastic Code.

Just an FYI/clarification for new players who might be scrolling past,
Though Praetorians can never benefit from Dynastic Codes, Imotekh and Anrakyr can give them MWBD.

 skoffs wrote:

hirojlance wrote:

Da W wrote: You can MWBD pretorians, and they also have their +1 to hit own stratagem.

MWBD targets a "friendly <Dynasty> Infantry unit." While Triarch Praetorians are Infantry, they cannot benefit from a Dynastic Code.

Just an FYI/clarification for new players who might be scrolling past,
Though Praetorians can never benefit from Dynastic Codes, Imotekh and Anrakyr can give them MWBD.

Indeed! I'm curious to see if this synergy survives into the Codex.

My biggest beef with Anrakyr (his point cost isn't great but not terrible at 167) is I just don't see him ever keeping up with Triarch Praetorians to give them MWBD or his +1 Attack buff. I suppose his best use is defensively for a counter charges. As it stands, I don't think he can even get in our *still* lame transport options because he lacks any <Dynasty>.

Triarch Praetorians are the plug and play unit of the codex. You don't need anything else to synergise with them to unlock further potential.

The main point of the MWBD on them previously was the +1 to hit. The +1 to Charge/+1 to Advance on an already quick unit is neither here nor there.

Now you don't have to MWBD them for +1 to hit as they can use a 1pt Stratagem to unlock that hitting on 2s. Unless you're against a -to hit in combat, they don't really need any further hit bonus. They just run around doing their thing, hitting things on 2+

Wish they would lower the cost of the Praetorians a bit.. they're the coolest models we have.

hirojlance wrote:

Veil of Darkness allows the user to move "one friendly <Dynasty> Infantry unit." Canoptek Wraiths are not Infantry (they are Beasts). Canoptek Scarabs are also not Infantry, they are Swarms. In your list, the Veil of Darkness can only be used to move itself and the unit of Destroyers.

Hm. May be worth tossing the Wraiths then as I am not sure they will get to close in fast enough even with their speed. Any idea for what would be another good hammer unit to bring up with Veil?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DaBraken wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Tentative list ideas, using Beta points:

Nephrekh Outrider

Cloaktek w/ Veil of Darkness
6x Destroyers
5x Wraiths
3x Scarabs
[...]

I always would use a Chronotec for supporting Destroyers. The additional 5++ benefits them more in my experience. Sure, you lack some more mobility with the cloak now, but still. My Destroyers always get massively shot with heavy multiwound stuff.

With Veil movement, it may be worth it. Just as a means to bump their durability, since my Destroyers will be moved up close to the enemy and later movement shouldn't be too bad for the Cryptek as Nephrekh, since I can get the full 6" advance. The 5++ really would be a great buff for them.

A Veil typically wants to move another unit up with it. It'd kind of be a waste to only Veil up a Cryptek all by itself just to buff a unit.
But what would be the optimal unit to Veil up with a Chrono-tek in support of some deep struck Destroyers?

 skoffs wrote:
A Veil typically wants to move another unit up with it. It'd kind of be a waste to only Veil up a Cryptek all by itself just to buff a unit.
But what would be the optimal unit to Veil up with a Chrono-tek in support of some deep struck Destroyers?

Potentially Tesla Immortals prebufed with MWBD to clear chafe/bubble wraps.

sieGermans wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
A Veil typically wants to move another unit up with it. It'd kind of be a waste to only Veil up a Cryptek all by itself just to buff a unit.
But what would be the optimal unit to Veil up with a Chrono-tek in support of some deep struck Destroyers?

Potentially Tesla Immortals prebufed with MWBD to clear chafe/bubble wraps.

Not going to be easy to have an Overlord nearby that way though. Since you are Deep Striking and Veil-ing units into place away from your main force.

I do think Immortals are probably a solid idea.

So has anyone been comparing the betadex with the official teases from GW? Have things been lining up the same? Any changes you've noticed? I haven't had the time to compare.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
A Veil typically wants to move another unit up with it. It'd kind of be a waste to only Veil up a Cryptek all by itself just to buff a unit.
But what would be the optimal unit to Veil up with a Chrono-tek in support of some deep struck Destroyers?

Potentially Tesla Immortals prebufed with MWBD to clear chafe/bubble wraps.

Not going to be easy to have an Overlord nearby that way though. Since you are Deep Striking and Veil-ing units into place away from your main force.

I do think Immortals are probably a solid idea.

MWBD is at the start of movement and Veil at the end. Even if they were simultaneous you can still layer them that turn.

sieGermans wrote:


MWBD is at the start of movement and Veil at the end. Even if they were simultaneous you can still layer them that turn.

Good point! Just got to deploy to ensure they are close enough to do it and there you go.

sieGermans wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
A Veil typically wants to move another unit up with it. It'd kind of be a waste to only Veil up a Cryptek all by itself just to buff a unit.
But what would be the optimal unit to Veil up with a Chrono-tek in support of some deep struck Destroyers?

Potentially Tesla Immortals prebufed with MWBD to clear chafe/bubble wraps.

Not going to be easy to have an Overlord nearby that way though. Since you are Deep Striking and Veil-ing units into place away from your main force.

I do think Immortals are probably a solid idea.

MWBD is at the start of movement and Veil at the end. Even if they were simultaneous you can still layer them that turn.

That does make a 20 man Warrior blob more appealing doesn't it?

I still don't like the math for Warriors overall but one giant squad popping out of nowhere might scare less savvy players even in a competitive setting...