Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**deltaKshatriya**

My biggest problem is that I'm so used to playing Guard which has been really powerful this edition, so I'm viewing this Codex through that lens. I'm not super impressed so far.

BUT I do feel that a Canoptek Wraith heavy list might be viable...

Maybe with a couple of DDAs in the back.

**Doctoralex**

I did have a thought about Sautekh Destroyers:

If for whatever reason you can't take the Nephrekh Dynasty for your Destroyers, you can opt in and put them in a Sautekh detachment.
Give them MWBD, and they will still hit on 3+ even when advancing. Hell, you are even making use of the +1 to advance from MWBD!

**Odrankt**

Kuguar6 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So I had another idea going through my head. How about trying to get Stormlord and then Heavy Destroyers in their own detachment? They're one of those units that can benefit from the Sautekh trait, and with just 1 CP you'd give all three squads MWBD.

1) Too many heavy weepons
2) Heavy Destroyers havent -1 to hit for moving so get only benefit when aadvance
3) MVBD works better on multi hit unit

Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers don't have a -1 to hit when moving.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Kuguar6 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So I had another idea going through my head. How about trying to get Stormlord and then Heavy Destroyers in their own detachment? They're one of those units that can benefit from the Sautekh trait, and with just 1 CP you'd give all three squads MWBD.

1) Too many heavy weepons
2) Heavy Destroyers havent -1 to hit for moving so get only benefit when aadvance
3) MVBD works better on multi hit unit

1. How is that too many weapons?
2. Well that's an advantage for last minute objective capturing? I don't understand this being a negative.
3. Not if you wanna bring something big down.

**SHADOWSTRIKE1**

Alright. After much consideration, here is my 2000pts list for now. Let me know what you think-

Spoiler:

Ideally we'd set up the troops up front, Warriors up front with Immortals right behind, with Imotekh and Chronotek mixed in. Imotekh gives MWBD to both Tesla Immortals. Cryptek from Spearhead also comes along, stacking Technomancer. This gives both our Immortals a big buff, and with dual Crypteks, some really solid RP that will make the opponent worry. The Outrider detachment will have its Cryptek use the Veil to pull the Destroyers wherever we need them to take out a priority target. Tomb Blades are for general attack & objective. Scarabs are just there. I guess they can hold something. Finally, the Spearhead detachment will drop 3 DDA's on the back line for heavy support across the map.

The biggest decisions I'm having problems with are what Dynasties to use. Originally I had the Outrider set to Nephrekh for the movement benefits, but I felt that the Destroyers being able to shoot without penalty was more beneficial, so I put them in Sautekh as well. As for the Spearhead, I had them set to Nihilakh to give the DDA's rerolls on 1, but that left the Cryptek utterly useless, as his abilities would only target Nihilakh infantry, which there was none of. Thus I moved them all back to Sautekh.

Thoughts? Comments? Whispers of sweet nothings?

**Ghaz**

DaBraken wrote:
skoffs wrote:
From the Doomsday Ark's data sheet-
"A model can only fire the doomsday cannon at high power if it remained stationary in its preceding Movement phase."

Sautekh does not suddenly make this go away.

But you can move and fire your heavy weapon without the -1 penality, and even advance, getting only -1 to hit for changing the heavy cannon to assault.

This has nothing to do with the weapon type. It is an additional restriction on the weapon that is not affected by the Sautekh dynastic code.

**Doctoralex**

So what do you guys think are the go-to powers for the C'tan Shards?

- antimatter Meteor seems like the most Obvious First Choice the only downside is that It has to Target the closest Enemy Meaning It Might hit enemy chaff.

- Sky of the Falling Stars is een close second Choice, though it does nothing if the enemy has got nothing but monsters, vehicles and = < 3 model units.

- Cosmic Fire requires the Ctan to get close and probably needs to advance, meaning it cant fight this turn. The enemy can also be spread out, making the ability less effective.

The other three powers seem too situational ( Arrow & Seismic Assault) or straight up worse than Meteor (Thunderbolt).
In a pinch, the secondary power can be changed with a Strategem. If you are up against a horde and you reeeaaally wish you had Seismic Assault, you can change it out.

What do you guys think? What are your 'standard' powers for your C'tan Shards?

**Drakmord**

Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

**Rottweiler**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Tesla weapons average 1 hit per shot, not 2.

Was this a reply to something in my post?

**Doctoralex**

Drakmord wrote:
Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

Nope. In the power of the C’tan section, it says ‘Before the battle’ this implies that it has to be written down in your list, just like psychic powers/relics.

**Ridge**

Doctoralex wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

Nope. In the power of the C’tan section, it says ‘Before the battle’ this implies that it has to be written down in your list, just like psychic powers/relics.

Has anyone actually got word from GW when "Before the battle actually happens? I would believe it to be before you start deployment as in tournaments here you can either do it before the start of the game or must be included in your list for the reason of fairness. I haven't ever been given the reason that this wording causes this.

**skoffs**

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Cryptek from Spearhead also comes along, stacking Technomancer. This gives both our Immortals a big buff, and with dual Crypteks, some really solid RP that will make the opponent worry.

I hope you're not suggesting two Crypteks next to one unit can stack the Technomancer buff for a 3+ RP (because you can't. Units can only benefit from that ability once per round. Likewise for Master Technomancer).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why are people suddenly trying to stick Destroyers into Sautekh? They already aren't penalized for shooting when moving, so them being from Sautekh will not benefit them as much as being from Nephrekh or even Mephrit.

**Rottweiler**

Throwing this in the mix

I would think Necron is best with max unit size for RP.

Fast army: 2011 points, 9CP

Spoiler:

Max CP: 1995 points 13CP

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

skoffs wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why are people suddenly trying to stick Destroyers into Sautekh? They already aren't penalized for shooting when moving, so them being from Sautekh will not benefit them as much as being from Nihilakh or even Mephrit.

Why Nihilakh? Destroyers already get to re-roll 1s?

Nephrekh is useless for Destroyers as Advancing is a definite NONO.... Unless you of course are playing as Sautekh and then the Destroyer gets to advance and shoot at -1 to hit AND re-roll 1s...

Novokh is allso kinda Meh since you dont want the Destroyers in CC anyway.

Mephrit can give an extra AP-1, but Do you want the destroyer that close? Unless you are accompanying a CC DLORD with Nanoscarab Casket

**Ridge**

skoffs wrote:

And why are people suddenly trying to stick Destroyers into Sautekh? They already aren't penalized for shooting when moving, so them being from Sautekh will not benefit them as much as being from Nihilakh or even Mephrit.

I personally wouldn't but I can see people arguing that sautekh can be useful for:

1. Using Imotekh to mwb two squads of destroyers
2. Nephrekh can be replaced by veil
3. Can advance and still shoot in a pinch
4. AP-4 isn't amazingly useful, can avoid your opponent from getting lucky and rolling a bunch of 6s, but on average not worth sacrificing other advantages
5. Using Methodical Destruction and Extermination protocols on them can make them particularly amazing at taking down those pesky -2 to hit fliers if they are within range.

Currently I am on the fence about running nephrekh, sautekh, or mephrit on mine, I do love not having my opponent being able to eliminate them turn 1, but can I get away with sitting them behind LoS blocking and veiling them in. having a sautekh warlord is just really handy, so it would mean giving up having them supported by a cryptek to give them mephrit, which to be perfectly honest wont come into play when using 24" guns. And being able to shoot after advancing means that trying to get to a particular position (cover/objective etc) is a bit easier

**Drakmord**

Doctoralex wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

Nope. In the power of the C’tan section, it says ‘Before the battle’ this implies that it has to be written down in your list, just like psychic powers/relics.

Are you sure? The Battle Primer even indicates that psychic powers are generated before either player deploys. There's also a sidebar for sequencing "before the battle begins" effects between you and your opponent.

I don't mean to derail the thread with interpretations, but I wanted to point this out. If it really is unclear to other players I'll submit it for the FAQ after the codex officially drops.

**Red Acolyte**

@SHADOWSTRIKE1

Your list raises a recurring tension: is it better to have more command points or more lethal units? You have 165 points in Crypteks dedicated solely to breaking units out into separate detachments of the same Dynasty. Removing either HQ could help fill out the scarabs, the destroyers, the tomb blades, or the warriors depending on need. Otherwise, it seems like a reasonable spread of capabilities.

Related but for everyone: can you have a Cryptek with neither the Chronometer or Cloak? Just a budget 80 point HQ?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Rottweiler

Your first list is illegal as it only has 2 Troop choices. Could split one of the immortal squads into two MSU.

**Xachariah**

Doctoralex wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

Nope. In the power of the C’tan section, it says ‘Before the battle’ this implies that it has to be written down in your list, just like psychic powers/relics.

Wait, is that really your interpretation?

How fortuitous! Because before the tournament, my 8 transcendent C'tan list managed to ALL roll 8x Cosmic Tyrant + 8x Immune to Natural Law, with Sky of Falling Stars randomly for each one!

What are the odds?

**Ridge**

Xachariah wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
Powers are picked during deployment, so you can tailor your C'tan to the opponent you're facing.

Nope. In the power of the C’tan section, it says ‘Before the battle’ this implies that it has to be written down in your list, just like psychic powers/relics.

Wait, is that really your interpretation?

How fortuitous! Because before the tournament, my 8 transcendent C'tan list managed to ALL roll 8x Cosmic Tyrant + 8x Immune to Natural Law, with Sky of Falling Stars randomly for each one!

What are the odds?

I know right, I also managed to roll for a 3++ and 2 powers for the t ctan bonuses. I couldn't believe my luck you just had to be there.

**Eldenfirefly**

I feel that our answer to horde spam is to have enough scarabs to fight for board control, to tie up hordes, while having enough guns behind the scarabs for shooting.

So, blocks of necron warriors behind lots of scarabs along with stuff like destroyers and such. We want the scarabs to screen our shooting (including our warriors) so that they don't get charged and then our famed resilience from RP will hopefully keep us shooting longer than other faction troops.

We might not be the most efficient in fire output compared to some other factions, but with RP, we should hang around a lot longer, so our shooting output over several turns might be equivalent or better. But we need scarabs to screen our necrons warriors, otherwise, they are very vulnerable to getting charged by some melee unit.

**Grimgold**

Xachariah wrote:

Spoiler:

General notes
A = Should be the bulk of your army
B = Viable
C = Usable if you've got a very specific strategy in mind
D = Don't use these
F = Why does this exist?

Troops
Immortal(Gauss) - A-
Immortal(Tesla) - B+
Necron Warrior - B

Fast Attack
Canoptek Acanthrite - A (Tomb Blades with meltas and power swords)
Canoptek Scarab Swarm - A-
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - A
Canoptek Wraith - A-
Destroyer - A+ (IMO best overall in codex)
Tomb Blade (Guass) - A
Tomb Blade (Particle) - C
Tomb Blade (Tesla) - B (I consider these relatively worse than Immortals since they can't get MWBD, and they'll almost never be Sautekh for +1 stratagem.)

Elite
Canoptek Tomb Stalker - C
C'Tan Shard of the Deceiver - B (I see his potential, but can't rank him higher without a concrete use-case.)
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer - B+
Deathmark - D
Flayed One - D
Lychguard (Warscythe/Sword & Board) - B/B- (On actual fighting ability they're A+, but armies don't start 5" away)
Triarch Praetorian (Rod of Covenant/Particle Caster and Blade) - C/C-
Triarch Stalker (based on weapon) - C-/D

Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge (base/tesla) - C/D
Canoptek Spyder - B-
Doomsday Ark - A
Heavy Destroyer - B-
Monolith - C (As a raw combat unit, it's got decent stats; not great but good enough that it's transport and deep strike push it into 'usable' territory.)
Transcendent C'Tan - B (Tentative, still not sure how I feel about their powers)

Flyer & LOW
Doom Scythe - C-
Night Scythe - C (Just on their ability to fight, they're a high D, but invasion beams are integral to Lychguard, which are fantastic)
Gauss Pylon - D (Deep strike is nice, but I don't see the point now that we have usable anti-armor. Although, not sure if I'm wrong on this, but can it shoot if you get a model into melee with it?)
Obelisk - F (IMO worst in codex, and we've got flayed ones!)
Tesseract Vault - B+ (Again, unsure on powers)

I'm on board for most of these, with a few exceptions

Tomb blades - Tesla tomb blades will be a staple of mephrit list since the -1 AP makes tesla much better and is not hard to get for units as fast as tomb blades. They are also legitimately one of our only answers to hordes. With talent for annihilation they roll an extra shot for every six and get three hits. They can expect 21ish hits out 18 shots, at str 5 and probably -1 AP. A max sized squad of tesla tomb blades will put out about 10 heavy bolters worth of damage on a TFA round. We have lots of weapons that have good ap and str, but only tomb blade tesla have that high of a return on shots per point invested. I'g put them even with gauss and better than gauss with mephrit.

Tomb sentinel - I have one, but I just have a hard time giving it an A, it's short range, very big, and isn't super good with necron codes. I just don't know if the value is there to justify an A, I'd think it's more in line with a B.

Named C'Tan - I feel like they have stayed more or less the same, while the rest of the codex has gotten better around them. Deceiver still has his super lame restrictions on charging with GI, and nightbringer is a great beat stick but not really much beyond that. I think they are a C- for deceiver and a C for nightbringer.

Monolith - I feel like this should be a D, for its cost it's under gunned, it has the equivalent of a rapid fire battle cannon and some heavy bolters. While we'd like to think it's tough it's just a LRBT with some extra wounds. Tomb world deploy is less awful with the codex (still awful though), but not good enough to justify the monoliths anemic offensive ability, and while dimensional corridor is great, if you really want to spend CP to deep strike units take nephrekh and save yourself hundreds of points.

Doom scythe - Might get up to a B with sautekh.

triarch stalker - A twin las dreadnought equivalent, with QS and a buff for the rest of the army. It doesn't really need codes to be useful, and the buff it provides dovetails nicely into several dynasty specific tactics. I'd say the the twin heavy gauss version gets a B, the rest are in C territory though.

**Ridge**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I feel that our answer to horde spam is to have enough scarabs to fight for board control, to tie up hordes, while having enough guns behind the scarabs for shooting.

So, blocks of necron warriors behind lots of scarabs along with stuff like destroyers and such. We want the scarabs to screen our shooting (including our warriors) so that they don't get charged and then our famed resilience from RP will hopefully keep us shooting longer than other faction troops.

We might not be the most efficient in fire output compared to some other factions, but with RP, we should hang around a lot longer, so our shooting output over several turns might be equivalent or better. But we need scarabs to screen our necrons warriors, otherwise, they are very vulnerable to getting charged by some melee unit.

Warriors don't last man, RP is really overestimated by people who haven't played enough games to realise its shortcomings. As well as this as soon as warriors are locked in combat their effectiveness drops dramatically. The scarabs wont hold for long.

Our current best methods for horde clearing are Tomb Blades and The tesseract vault, the vault's guns are ok and can put some hurt on hordes but mostly comes in handy when it just points and deletes a third of a unit, (you see that unit of 40 boys over there... *pop* 13 dead). The blades with tesla can stand back behind your scarabs without having to get too close and can still retreat and shoot when they get locked into combat. <- People severely underestimate this until they really need it. As well as this tesla is amazing in overwatch, since it maths out to be the same as hitting at a -1 to hit. The T5 on these will also cause a headache for your S3/4 opponent.

**DarknessEternal**

Rottweiler wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Tesla weapons average 1 hit per shot, not 2.

Was this a reply to something in my post?

Yes, you said 9 Tomb Blades with Tesla would get 36 shots.

**Q2.718**

New here but a long time 40k player. Here are my thoughts:

Spoiler:

Edit: Put in Spoiler

**SHADOWSTRIKE1**

skoffs wrote:
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Cryptek from Spearhead also comes along, stacking Technomancer. This gives both our Immortals a big buff, and with dual Crypteks, some really solid RP that will make the opponent worry.

I hope you're not suggesting two Crypteks next to one unit can stack the Technomancer buff for a 3+ RP (because you can't. Units can only benefit from that ability once per round. Likewise for Master Technomancer).

Why can’t they stack? In the Index it specifies that for Master Technomancer that “a unit cannot benefit from both the Master Technomancer and Technomancer abilities in the same turn.” However, that restriction does not appear in the description of regular Technomancer. It also does not appear in the new codex. It just says you add 1 to RP.

**Ridge**

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
skoffs wrote:
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Cryptek from Spearhead also comes along, stacking Technomancer. This gives both our Immortals a big buff, and with dual Crypteks, some really solid RP that will make the opponent worry.

I hope you're not suggesting two Crypteks next to one unit can stack the Technomancer buff for a 3+ RP (because you can't. Units can only benefit from that ability once per round. Likewise for Master Technomancer).

Why can’t they stack? In the Index it specifies that for Master Technomancer that “a unit cannot benefit from both the Master Technomancer and Technomancer abilities in the same turn.” However, that restriction does not appear in the description of regular Technomancer. It also does not appear in the new codex. It just says you add 1 to RP.

The ability says "In range of ANY <dynasty> crypteks", not in range of THIS cryptek, it's the same as the new wording for the ghost ark, the ghost ark used to target a unit and so it could be used twice as there was no limit against it, now it says in range of ANY and cant be stacked.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Rottweiler wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Tesla weapons average 1 hit per shot, not 2.

Was this a reply to something in my post?

Yes, you said 9 Tomb Blades with Tesla would get 36 shots.

but they would, they have two carbines, so that's 4 shots, 4 * 9 is 36 averaging one hit per shot is still 36...

**Drakmord**

What makes the rating on Acanthrites so high? They cost more than Wraiths now, and lack an invulnerable save. I'm unsure of the best way to use them, but I see that they do a bit more damage on average than Tomb Sentinels -- comparing 6 Acanthrites to 2 Sentinels, which cost the same, and can both deep strike.

**Ridge**

Drakmord wrote:
What makes the rating on Acanthrites so high? They cost more than Wraiths now, and lack an invulnerable save. I'm unsure of the best way to use them, but I see that they do a bit more damage on average than Tomb Sentinels -- comparing 6 Acanthrites to 2 Sentinels, which cost the same, and can both deep strike.

Acanthrites can't deep strike, he is right in that they are kind of tomb blades with melta and power swords, however he is missing that they don't have reanimation by default, which on tough units like tomb blades that don't just vanish like warriors and immortals is quite good. The issue with them is that while tomb blades are great for their specific purpose in putting out alot of massed shots while being tough, we just have better anti tank units than acanthrites while tomb blades are best in their category.

personally I would rate these as a C, they CAN be useful but are pretty meh when you can just take a D Ark and sit and shoot.

**-Sentinel-**

Rottweiler wrote:

TB is better than Immortal...

Take into account MWBD and Lord reroll of 1s aura - those 2 combined increase Immortal damage by 75%, while not affecting Tomb blades at all.

**skoffs**

I'm just trying to update the ratings as people suggest them.
Will try to adjust them via community consensus every day, if possible, until we settle on a final decision (still got some time until the codex actually comes out).

Meanwhile, as a thought experiment, I decided to see just how many CP Necrons could potentially take-

Spoiler:

Looks like it caps out at 16, no matter the combination.

**Ridge**

-Sentinel- wrote:
Rottweiler wrote:

TB is better than Immortal...

Take into account MWBD and Lord reroll of 1s aura - those 2 combined increase Immortal damage by 75%, while not affecting Tomb blades at all.

Those buffs aren't free, you need to factor in their cost, as well as tomb blades having -1 to hit, AMAZING speed, and are actually durable enough for RP to be a thing, making them VERY resilient when buffed by a cloaktek