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 Ridge wrote:

Drakmord wrote:
What makes the rating on Acanthrites so high? They cost more than Wraiths now, and lack an invulnerable save. I'm unsure of the best way to use them, but I see that they do a bit more damage on average than Tomb Sentinels -- comparing 6 Acanthrites to 2 Sentinels, which cost the same, and can both deep strike.

Acanthrites can't deep strike, he is right in that they are kind of tomb blades with melta and power swords, however he is missing that they don't have reanimation by default, which on tough units like tomb blades that don't just vanish like warriors and immortals is quite good. The issue with them is that while tomb blades are great for their specific purpose in putting out alot of massed shots while being tough, we just have better anti tank units than acanthrites while tomb blades are best in their category.

personally I would rate these as a C, they CAN be useful but are pretty meh when you can just take a D Ark and sit and shoot.

Ah you're right, I forgot that Nephrekh is infantry and swarms only.

 Ridge wrote:

Drakmord wrote:
What makes the rating on Acanthrites so high? They cost more than Wraiths now, and lack an invulnerable save. I'm unsure of the best way to use them, but I see that they do a bit more damage on average than Tomb Sentinels -- comparing 6 Acanthrites to 2 Sentinels, which cost the same, and can both deep strike.

Acanthrites can't deep strike, he is right in that they are kind of tomb blades with melta and power swords, however he is missing that they don't have reanimation by default, which on tough units like tomb blades that don't just vanish like warriors and immortals is quite good. The issue with them is that while tomb blades are great for their specific purpose in putting out alot of massed shots while being tough, we just have better anti tank units than acanthrites while tomb blades are best in their category.

personally I would rate these as a C, they CAN be useful but are pretty meh when you can just take a D Ark and sit and shoot.

This brings up a philosophical question about rating units regarding relative vs absolute value.

To make an analogy, imagine that you could get a space marine for 8 points a model... Amazing right? Those would be A++ rank!
Now imagine that you could get the exact same unit for 7 points a model... Now, how good are the 8 pt marines?

From one school of thought, they're still A++ rank because they're better than 99% of all other units. But from another school of thought, if there's a competitor unit that does the same thing better, they're F rank, because there's no use time you'd ever use the inferior unit. Some people think the latter, but I still think that tier lists should try to be objective instead of comparative.

To return back to the topic, Arcanthrites have been crowded out on both sides by DDAs and Wraiths. They're still strong at what they do; it's just that we don't need it so much. I don't think that merits a C, because if you ever are making your list and decided you really need jetbikes with meltas and powerswords strapped on to them, today's your lucky day because woooh boy are these A rank. In comparison, if you ever decide that you really need deep striking melee units, you should probably rethink your life or go Blood Angels before you pick up flayed ones.

 Ridge wrote:

-Sentinel- wrote:

Rottweiler wrote:

TB is better than Immortal...

Take into account MWBD and Lord reroll of 1s aura - those 2 combined increase Immortal damage by 75%, while not affecting Tomb blades at all.

Those buffs aren't free, you need to factor in their cost, as well as tomb blades having -1 to hit, AMAZING speed, and are actually durable enough for RP to be a thing, making them VERY resilient when buffed by a cloaktek

True. But most of time you still want those HQ and Troops choices in your army because you need CP. While the only HQ that is needed to Tomb blades as core of your army is cryptek, and spamming crypteks is not as viable - first gives your army +1 to protocol, others are wasted unless your army spread across the map.

I just want to tell that in theory without taking into account synergies and CP count Tomb blades are straight better than immortals. But you really should. I'm going to use 3x10 Tesla immortals and 0 tomb blades for those reasons - I need CP and want that my HQ buff someone doing their job.

 skoffs wrote:
Meanwhile, as a thought experiment, I decided to see just how many CP Necrons could potentially take

To maximize CP you would either take 1 brig + 1 batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP @ 1881 points, or 4x batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP at 1821. Obviously you could play around with the contents of each detachment with the leftover points, but the maximum CP remains the same.[/spoiler] Looks like it caps out at 16, no matter the combination.

Nice experiment, you could push it just a little more though, with those figures using the 4 batt + 1 outrider and the 179 points left upgrade 1 of the lords to immotek (179+76 > 200) for 1 more cp, then take the trait to get used ones back on 5 on top!

Doctoralex wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I am not sure about warriors.
12pts per model, 4+ S4 AP-1. It does not sound very great.

I will try 3x20 for sure but do not think it is competitive.

Same for immortals. 17ppm 3+ S4 AP0.
10 of the is very easy to remove so no reanimation.

So i think our troops are sucks. So we need to play without troops

Necron infantry may look poor in stats for points, but they have an ace up their sleeve: Reanimation Protocols.

While RP is often overlooked and seen as kinda 'meh', it forces your opponents to shoot down the unit down to the last model. Yes there is morale, yes there is surrounding the remaining models. But those things can be overcome, especially with the new auto-pass morale warlord trait.

Imagine, if you will, several units of militarum tempestus that deep-struck into the enemy. The opponent will then make sure that as many models with Plasma guns go down as possible. He doesn't care if the sergeant or maybe several non-plasma gunners remain standing. Their threat level is cut down massively or maybe more important threats came up for your opponent to focus on.
But not so with Necron infantry. Sure, you can drop down a blob of 20 warriors and see 17 of them get hosed down. But oh look, on average 6-7 models get back up. They won't be too much of a threat as before, but they will get ánother round of RP the next turn.

This reminds me of a 2v1 match I played not too long ago. I had 2x20 Warriors supported by Illuminor Szeras and a Ghost Ark. On one turn, my opponents shot down 18 models of one unit down. Using the auto-pass morale strategem, I got 11! of them back. Mind you, that is a below-average RP for Szeras + Ghost Ark.
In my turn, I dropped my unit of Deathmarks and Veiled my Tesla Immortals up. With multiple new threats closing in, my opponents lost their focus on the Warrior squad and killed only 6. My turn again, 11 Warriors stood back up again.
This went on for the rest of the match. I think I had revived a total of 40-45 Warriors over the course of the match.
Were my opponents new and maybe a bit inexperienced in fighting Necrons? Perhaps.

My point is; the key to Necron infantry (or more specifically, Warrior blobs) is to make sure that they are a big enough threat (aka, rapid-fire range) so that they can't be ignored, but don't just suicide them in. Should they get focused down, it means another one of your important unit did not get targeted and can go in for the kill.
The codex offers plenty of new toys to help Warrior blobs out and make them either more survivable (auto-pass morale WL, Budget-Tek) or increase their threat level (Mephrit Dynasty Code and Strategem, Sautekh Strategem etc).

Overall, is it effective? Who knows, but I intend to find out. Silver Tide is my favourite Necron tactic so I'll be sure to report my experiences with them here.

Exactly this. We Have to use either immortals or warriors unless you are planning to run zero troops. So, I still think we have to think about the best way to use them.

2x10 Tesla Immortals and 1x20 Warriors ( to be redeployed as a screen via Deciever) seems the best bet for me so far...

Would you guys consider these statements true?

1# Immortals are better than Warriors and TB is better than Immortals. TB is the new infantry?
2# The most effective way of getting the best units, Destroyers, TB and Scarabs to spam Outrider Detachments.
3# The Lord better than a Overlord when bubble wrapped by Warriors with a Cryptek?
4# Cheapest HQ still being useful for Outrider detachment is Cryptek w/SoL and Canoptek Cloak (85).


@ Red Acolyte
True, my bad. 10+5+5 would be not as good but for a detachment that is supposed to be in cover holding Obj. its probably good enough

@ Darkness Eternal
What Ridge said.

@ Q2.718
Why would T.TB be "A" in Sautekh?
I would think that for Mephrit with the AP-1 would be much more useful.
Sautekh is best for Gauss and Heavy, useless for Tesla.

@-Sentinel-
I agree to a point.
MWBD adds 50% but TLW only adds maybe 15%.
10 Immortals with MWBD and TLW would be getting 27 hits and rerolling 1 to wound. But even if the Overlord and Lord would have Hyperphase Swords the 10 immortals (170) + Overtlord (84+3) and Lord (73+3) would cost 333 pts.
That is the same as a 9 TB unit with Tesla, Shieldvanes and Nebulascope. The TB would still be getting 36 hits (not rerolling 1s though).
TB unit would have 18W. 10 Immortals are still less survivable as a unit with only 10 W, the Overlord and Lord could stand in front of the unit to draw fire and soak up 5+4W

The force projection of having high unit speed is incredibly valuable. I have never played TB but I would think that the speed may give them an opportunity to run if they get badly mauled so that they can hide, use RP and come back up in strength. Immortals can never outrun anything

So this is an early idea for something to build into. We've a few heavier vehicles and people that like playing with Magnus, Leviathan Dread's, multiple LRBT's mixed in with a few people that play a lot of dudes. So it's a generally mixed field and I'm looking for something that could drop into almost anyone.

Everything is Mephrit. Personally not a fan of mixing dynasties (because my painting OCD will kick in if they're not all different). Sitting at 7 CP, 6 if I decide to add a second relic (Nanoscarab to D-Lord, Veil to Overlord).
Spyder is there to fill points and babysit the DDA. It could be a 2nd cryptek, or with some minor rejigging (-1 scarab swarm base) Deathmarks or a small unit of Tomb Blades.

Most tournaments, leagues, and house rules prohibit spam vanguard(Spearhead/outrider) / spam patrol detachments, though.

Worth considering that aspect. Not RAW/RAI, and I don’t suggest going down the rabbit hole of each and every FLG rule permutation, but the major tournaments on the scene are relevant for competitive tactics discussion.

zacharia wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Meanwhile, as a thought experiment, I decided to see just how many CP Necrons could potentially take

To maximize CP you would either take 1 brig + 1 batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP @ 1881 points, or 4x batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP at 1821. Obviously you could play around with the contents of each detachment with the leftover points, but the maximum CP remains the same.[/spoiler] Looks like it caps out at 16, no matter the combination.

Nice experiment, you could push it just a little more though, with those figures using the 4 batt + 1 outrider and the 179 points left upgrade 1 of the lords to immotek (179+76 > 200) for 1 more cp, then take the trait to get used ones back on 5 on top!

:O
N I C E

Rottweiler wrote:
Would you guys consider these statements true?
I agree to a point.
MWBD adds 50% but TLW only adds maybe 15%.
10 Immortals with MWBD and TLW would be getting 27 hits and rerolling 1 to wound. But even if the Overlord and Lord would have Hyperphase Swords the 10 immortals (170) + Overtlord (84+3) and Lord (73+3) would cost 333 pts.
That is the same as a 9 TB unit with Tesla, Shieldvanes and Nebulascope. The TB would still be getting 36 hits (not rerolling 1s though).
TB unit would have 18W. 10 Immortals are still less survivable as a unit with only 10 W, the Overlord and Lord could stand in front of the unit to draw fire and soak up 5+4W

I would compare them other way.

You can take 30 Immortals (510), Overlord (84+3), Lord (73+3) and cryptek (80) for total of 753 points and effective 4 CP (you gonna got those CP by forming another detach with cryptek - like with doomsday arks or destroyers\scarabs; but effectively points you spent on cryptek works with immortals)

Alternatively you can take Cloaktek (85), 2 per 9 tombblades (630) and 3 scarabs (39) for total of 744 points and 1 CP

Lets assume that 2 units of Immortals detach will benefit form MWBD whole game due to CP difference.

Damage output (against T4 MEQ):
Immortals - 30 + 30 + 20 hits, with rerolable 1s its 62 saves. With only single unit benefiting from MWBD its 70 hits, 54.5 saves
Tomb blades - 36 + 36 hits, 48 saves

So same points immortals do 13.5% - 29% more damage depends of whether you use stratagem for 2nd MWBD per turn. They also provide you 3 more CP. What is important, they might be teleported by character with cloak.
At the same time tomb blades are more mobile and more durable unit.

Thats what i say - tomb blades are not straight winners in this comparsion. They just do same job as immortals, with their pros and cons.

Few questions:
As Im still building and painting my Army. I haven't finished assembling my 2x GA/DDA, thinking of just making DDA as GA is redundant without Warriors.

When assembling the TB Im thinking of magnetizing, but isn't it possible to just mount the Tesla and the Gauss? Tesla on the side and Gauss on the front? Rules against it or is it bad form?

Which is really more effective DDA or Destroyers?
1x DDA would fire ~3.5 shots, hit with ~2.5 at S10 AP-5 Dd6 generating app 9W. Defense: 14W 4+/QS
4x Destroyers would fire 12 shots, hit ~9 at S6 AP-3 Dd3. Defense: 12W 3+

The destroyer units could be considered to have QS, as it will never loose more than 3W from one shot. The DDA has range advantage and if Sautekh some mobility as well.
If DDA is a part of the army then it should be in a group of 2-3 in Sautekh dynasty. Played aggressively with Crypteks with cloaks repairing (Living Metal) and maybe Destroyers being cover for the Crypteks?


Infantry gives most CP...

Infantry Battalion (+3CP) 758pts (Sautekh)


DDA Spearhead (+1CP) 664pts (Sautekh or Nihilakh)


Then choose one of the following?

Destroyer Outrider (+1CP) 509pts (Sautekh or Mephit)


Destroyer Outrider (+1CP) 463pts (Sautekh or Mephit)


TB Outrider (+1CP) 496pts (Mephit)

 Ghaz wrote:

 DaBraken wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
From the Doomsday Ark's data sheet-

"A model can only fire the doomsday cannon at high power if it remained stationary in its preceding Movement phase."

Sautekh does not suddenly make this go away.

But you can move and fire your heavy weapon without the -1 penality, and even advance, getting only -1 to hit for changing the heavy cannon to assault.

This has nothing to do with the weapon type. It is an additional restriction on the weapon that is not affected by the Sautekh dynastic code.

I know this does not change anything, but I am talking about the low profile in support of the flayer arrays, while closing to the enemy. I do not intend to make an immobile firebase out of them. Thats the reason I suggested Sautekh, because in my experience this is more usefull than ignoring the arrays and sitting in a corner all day long.

I'm sorry i only got up to page 10 before i couldn't take it. But when it comes to FO's did people just forget disruption fields? the +1 str 4->5 is MASSIVE compared to the 6->7 ShieldGuard could pottentially get. Now i'm not the best mathhammer person but someone was asking "what do you expect to hit with your FO's a fething Riptide?!" erm... yes?! 60 Str 5 Hits on 2s Shredding averages 4.6 W on a riptide vs 20 Str 7 Ap-3 attacks Hits on 2s Averages 4.1W (again assuming my math is correct, a DDA averages 2.7 because consistency) and this is JUST with MWD and Disruption Fields, and the gap gets wider vs T8 when both are wounding on 5s. If you actually BUILD around them with some support like for example Immotekh also giving them RR 1s and using MWD on perhaps a 2nd block.... and maybe a Veiled / Chrono cryptek that is delivering immothek and giving them a 5++

I'm not saying they're good or even fairly priced and YES shieldguard are tankier.... DUH?! On the other hand a cryptek isn't redundant with FO's. But i don't think you can call FO's trash and lychguard good in the same sentance. The biggest problem FO's have _IS_ delivery (ironically, they're innate deepstrike is prolly what makes them overcosted...) buuuut there is ghostwalk, there is Emergency / Enhanced invasion beams... a smarter person than me could prolly make them work but the thing i find with Necrons right now is they're like magic the puzzleing, "everything" relatively speaking is GOOD it's just a question of efficiently filling pts / detachments, you won't get to play with the entire toybox.... as far as assault goes you COULD drop Nemesor and 10 Shieldguard from a Night Scythe (during the enemies shooting phase prolly, ouch) , and _IF_ they live piggy back varguard with FO's onto him and have a cryptek with veil bring in a third unit. Or you could have 2 block of FO's use their natural deepstrike, piggyback in Immothek with a Veil Cryptek and have the Deceiver (and you've filled a vanguard at this points) hop in with Arankyr +/- some other units. Both these options would cost ~1300 pts.

Ofc that's if you even want to do assault army. Could go for MW spam with like 3 vaults.... or go for a sauthek battalion and a Spearhead of 3 transcendant c'than... (with the 2 powers a turn trait each). Or you could use a Spyder / Canoptek cloak Spearhead behind DDAs backed by a Outrider Scarab detachment. Or you could go with destroyers... etc etc etc Necrons are a little spoiled for choice right now. Biggest problem they have is that nobody likes them (as in no allies for psychic / screens and their models are expensive AF)

-Sentinel- wrote:

Rottweiler wrote:
Would you guys consider these statements true?
I agree to a point.
MWBD adds 50% but TLW only adds maybe 15%.
10 Immortals with MWBD and TLW would be getting 27 hits and rerolling 1 to wound. But even if the Overlord and Lord would have Hyperphase Swords the 10 immortals (170) + Overtlord (84+3) and Lord (73+3) would cost 333 pts.
That is the same as a 9 TB unit with Tesla, Shieldvanes and Nebulascope. The TB would still be getting 36 hits (not rerolling 1s though).
TB unit would have 18W. 10 Immortals are still less survivable as a unit with only 10 W, the Overlord and Lord could stand in front of the unit to draw fire and soak up 5+4W

I would compare them other way.

You can take 30 Immortals (510), Overlord (84+3), Lord (73+3) and cryptek (80) for total of 753 points and effective 4 CP (you gonna got those CP by forming another detach with cryptek - like with doomsday arks or destroyers\scarabs; but effectively points you spent on cryptek works with immortals)

Alternatively you can take Cloaktek (85), 2 per 9 tombblades (630) and 3 scarabs (39) for total of 744 points and 1 CP

Lets assume that 2 units of Immortals detach will benefit form MWBD whole game due to CP difference.

Damage output (against T4 MEQ):
Immortals - 30 + 30 + 20 hits, with rerolable 1s its 62 saves. With only single unit benefiting from MWBD its 70 hits, 54.5 saves
Tomb blades - 36 + 36 hits, 48 saves

So same points immortals do 13.5% - 29% more damage depends of whether you use stratagem for 2nd MWBD per turn. They also provide you 3 more CP. What is important, they might be teleported by character with cloak.
At the same time tomb blades are more mobile and more durable unit.

Thats what i say - tomb blades are not straight winners in this comparsion. They just do same job as immortals, with their pros and cons.

I dont understand how you got 30+30+20 ?

I agree with:
one MWBD gives ~30+20+20 = 70 hits + TLW for reroll 1 to wound giving roughly ~54 saves.
TB 36+36 hits and 48 saves... NB: only ~9% less shooting for 80% more survivability and 180% mobility.
I dont know, but are you not really supporting MY point?

Getting 30 infantry and their HQ in the right position, remember its only 24" range (+5"move) on the target that you need/want to kill is much harder than getting TB with 24" range (+14"move). Projection of power! Getting the hits on the unit that you want dead instead of shooting the unit the enemy wants you to shoot. Also consider, if focused on and surviving the TB can disengage, move out of range and try to RP. Immortals can only hope to hide behind other infantry.

Like you can see in my post above, Immortals and Warriors are needed to hold objective and are very good fighting from cover. But unless the enemy is one big blob the TB and Destroyers can be mobile and moved to where they are needed.

Rottweiler wrote:


I dont understand how you got 30+30+20 ?

I dont know, but are you not really supporting MY point?

If you pop stratagem that gives 2nd MWBD per turn you can get those 30 + 30 + 20

I might try cut immortals to 5 models per unit, taking unit of tombblades instead. Agreed that they provide much more threat projection. Just ATM I'm using Zandrekh + Obiron + 10 Warscythe lyches combo, which synergies with Immortals (already paid for support characters).

So evaluating my next purchases and really, really want an excuse to paint a Tesseract Vault. Anyone have list ideas for this unit? I was tinkering with a shenanigans list that uses Deceiver to bring it up close and personal early, along with some deep striking Destroyers and Veiling Immortals. Lots of pressure up close and early, which I think would catch people off guard with 'Crons.

 skoffs wrote:

zacharia wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Meanwhile, as a thought experiment, I decided to see just how many CP Necrons could potentially take

To maximize CP you would either take 1 brig + 1 batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP @ 1881 points, or 4x batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP at 1821. Obviously you could play around with the contents of each detachment with the leftover points, but the maximum CP remains the same.[/spoiler] Looks like it caps out at 16, no matter the combination.

Nice experiment, you could push it just a little more though, with those figures using the 4 batt + 1 outrider and the 179 points left upgrade 1 of the lords to immotek (179+76 > 200) for 1 more cp, then take the trait to get used ones back on 5 on top!

:O
N I C E

You seem to have forgotten that you can only take 3 detachments in an army.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Rottweiler wrote:


I dont understand how you got 30+30+20 ?

I dont know, but are you not really supporting MY point?

If you pop stratagem that gives 2nd MWBD per turn you can get those 30 + 30 + 20

I might try cut immortals to 5 models per unit, taking unit of tombblades instead. Agreed that they provide much more threat projection. Just ATM I'm using Zandrekh + Obiron + 10 Warscythe lyches combo, which synergies with Immortals (already paid for support characters).

Ok, CP come at a premium. In the aforementioned example using 1CP the TB using "talent for Annihilation" would get 6 more hits and 4 more wounds resulting in 52 saves vs 54 Immortal saves
Nebulascope is 18pts and gives free Solar Pulse for the unit every turn.

Both are nice units, TB maybe a little more versatile. Wouldn't a fast moving unit be more supportive of deepstriking/ghostwalking shenanigans?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

poweroftwo wrote:
I'm sorry i only got up to page 10 before i couldn't take it. But when it comes to FO's did people just forget disruption fields? the +1 str 4->5 is MASSIVE compared to the 6->7 ShieldGuard could pottentially get. Now i'm not the best mathhammer person but someone was asking "what do you expect to hit with your FO's a fething Riptide?!" erm... yes?! 60 Str 5 Hits on 2s Shredding averages 4.6 W on a riptide vs 20 Str 7 Ap-3 attacks Hits on 2s Averages 4.1W (again assuming my math is correct, a DDA averages 2.7 because consistency) and this is JUST with MWD and Disruption Fields, and the gap gets wider vs T8 when both are wounding on 5s. If you actually BUILD around them with some support like for example Immotekh also giving them RR 1s and using MWD on perhaps a 2nd block.... and maybe a Veiled / Chrono cryptek that is delivering immothek and giving them a 5++

I'm not saying they're good or even fairly priced and YES shieldguard are tankier.... DUH?! On the other hand a cryptek isn't redundant with FO's. But i don't think you can call FO's trash and lychguard good in the same sentance. The biggest problem FO's have _IS_ delivery (ironically, they're innate deepstrike is prolly what makes them overcosted...) buuuut there is ghostwalk, there is Emergency / Enhanced invasion beams... a smarter person than me could prolly make them work but the thing i find with Necrons right now is they're like magic the puzzleing, "everything" relatively speaking is GOOD it's just a question of efficiently filling pts / detachments, you won't get to play with the entire toybox.... as far as assault goes you COULD drop Nemesor and 10 Shieldguard from a Night Scythe (during the enemies shooting phase prolly, ouch) , and _IF_ they live piggy back varguard with FO's onto him and have a cryptek with veil bring in a third unit. Or you could have 2 block of FO's use their natural deepstrike, piggyback in Immothek with a Veil Cryptek and have the Deceiver (and you've filled a vanguard at this points) hop in with Arankyr +/- some other units. Both these options would cost ~1300 pts.

Ofc that's if you even want to do assault army. Could go for MW spam with like 3 vaults.... or go for a sauthek battalion and a Spearhead of 3 transcendant c'than... (with the 2 powers a turn trait each). Or you could use a Spyder / Canoptek cloak Spearhead behind DDAs backed by a Outrider Scarab detachment. Or you could go with destroyers... etc etc etc Necrons are a little spoiled for choice right now. Biggest problem they have is that nobody likes them (as in no allies for psychic / screens and their models are expensive AF)

I have 5 Lychguard models and plan on building them with Sword & Board.
Honestly Dispersion Shields should be 8pts, Lychguard with sword&board costing the same as with Warscythe, making the choice being 4++ (and Stratagem) vs S+1 AP-1 D+1.
Despite the Stratagem, isnt the Lychguard just asa good with Warscythe and Cryptek (5++)?
Which would do most damage in a game. 10 Lychguard, 9 TB or 6 Destroyers? What would survive best? Maybe unfair comparison?

Lychguard (Sword&Board) vs Wraith (w/Particle caster)...
Infantry vs Wraith form
5" vs 12"
20W vs 18W
20 AP-3 D1 vs 18 AP-2 D2
Save 3+/4++ vs 4+/3++
Shield can shoot back vs 12" 1 S6 AP0 D1 (Fall back shoot & charge every turn)
Unit 340pts vs 354

Wraith is better... I hate it and I dont have any Wraiths but I guess I need 2x Forgebane boxes...

Sautekh Wraith with T.Beamer... Fall back, shoot and charge every turn. Whoot.
12" ~8 hits S4 AP-3 D1 probably resulting in 4 extra wounds every turn.

I dont have much faith in FO.
Deepstriking 20 FO 9" away from enemy. If charge is failed, get shot and loose some models? Enemy moves back away from FO next movement and focus fire on FO, remaining FO flee... Its not easy.
Maybe best role for them as a mob to defend Monolith etc against CC? Or as a cheap 85pts objective capture/hold unit? But Deathmarks 95pts work as well considering they can shoot. But ultimatly Scarabs do this cheaper than both. If only Scarabs, FO and Deathmarks were infantry

Maybe with a Silver tide formation the Lychguard can act as a "shield" for the Warriors/Immortals? Moving out in front to take some hits then fall back to RP? Maybe their ultimate role is as an deterrant against being charged? Ofc. they can take the hits if Characters are being sniped.

I only have 4 Destroyers (3 normal, 1 H.D), so destroyer spam is not possible for me just now. Here is my first list. Ordered forgebane and more destroyers.



Not a pro or competative list. I started 40k and necrons less than a year. If any suggestions please reply

ibrahimerol wrote:
I only have 4 Destroyers (3 normal, 1 H.D), so destroyer spam is not possible for me just now. Here is my first list. Ordered forgebane and more destroyers.

Spoiler:

1899p , 8CP (have 101p more to spend)

-----------------------------------------------------

Outrider (+1CP) 731pts (Sautekh)

CCB (Warlord-Reroll CP'S) Gauss+SoL (168)
Cryptek SoL+Cloak (85) (not a must, comes for RP for Destroyers, if I have 2 groups of full destroyers he will be better)
3 Destroyers+1 H.Destroyer (207) (more in buy list)
3 Scarabs (39) (After buying more destroyers merging scarabs)
3 Scarabs (39)
1 DDA (193) (i have one more but no points left. may be take one wraith less to get 1 dda)

-------------------------------------------------------

Battalion (+3CP) 684pts (Mepherit)

Overlord SoL (94)
Cryptek SoL and Chronometron (95)
20 Warriors (240)
10 Immortals (170)
5 Immortals (85) (I only have 15, gonna buy more)

-------------------------------------------------------

Outrider (+1CP) 484pts (Novokh) (one CC detachment , maybe lychguard will be add here)

Lord h.sword (76) = 76
6 Wraiths (330)
3 Scarabs (39) (More scarab will be fine here, but I have only 12)
3 Scarabs (39)

Not a pro or competative list. I started 40k and necrons less than a year. If any suggestions please reply

Use 100 of those extra points to add another 2 Destroyers. You're going to need maximum bodies to keep that unit alive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

zacharia wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Meanwhile, as a thought experiment, I decided to see just how many CP Necrons could potentially take

To maximize CP you would either take 1 brig + 1 batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP @ 1881 points, or 4x batt + 1 outrider for 16 CP at 1821. Obviously you could play around with the contents of each detachment with the leftover points, but the maximum CP remains the same.[/spoiler] Looks like it caps out at 16, no matter the combination.

Nice experiment, you could push it just a little more though, with those figures using the 4 batt + 1 outrider and the 179 points left upgrade 1 of the lords to immotek (179+76 > 200) for 1 more cp, then take the trait to get used ones back on 5 on top!

:O
N I C E

You seem to have forgotten that you can only take 3 detachments in an army.

Hmm, for real?
It's not a scenario that's ever come up for me before.
For reference, where does it talk about that part in the rulebook?

 skoffs wrote:

ibrahimerol wrote:
I only have 4 Destroyers (3 normal, 1 H.D), so destroyer spam is not possible for me just now. Here is my first list. Ordered forgebane and more destroyers.

Spoiler:

1899p , 8CP (have 101p more to spend)

-----------------------------------------------------

Outrider (+1CP) 731pts (Sautekh)

CCB (Warlord-Reroll CP'S) Gauss+SoL (168)
Cryptek SoL+Cloak (85) (not a must, comes for RP for Destroyers, if I have 2 groups of full destroyers he will be better)
3 Destroyers+1 H.Destroyer (207) (more in buy list)
3 Scarabs (39) (After buying more destroyers merging scarabs)
3 Scarabs (39)
1 DDA (193) (i have one more but no points left. may be take one wraith less to get 1 dda)

-------------------------------------------------------

Battalion (+3CP) 684pts (Mepherit)

Overlord SoL (94)
Cryptek SoL and Chronometron (95)
20 Warriors (240)
10 Immortals (170)
5 Immortals (85) (I only have 15, gonna buy more)

-------------------------------------------------------

Outrider (+1CP) 484pts (Novokh) (one CC detachment , maybe lychguard will be add here)

Lord h.sword (76) = 76
6 Wraiths (330)
3 Scarabs (39) (More scarab will be fine here, but I have only 12)
3 Scarabs (39)

Not a pro or competative list. I started 40k and necrons less than a year. If any suggestions please reply

Use 100 of those extra points to add another 2 Destroyers. You're going to need maximum bodies to keep that unit alive.

Yes, ordered a box, when they arrive it can be possible. Thanks.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Alright. After much consideration, here is my 2000pts list for now. Let me know what you think-

Spoiler:

Battalion [Sautekh] - 803pts
HQ - 285pts

Imotekh - 200pts

Cryptek (SoL, Chronometron) - 95pts

Troops - 520pts

10x Immortals (Tesla) - 170pts

10x Immortals (Tesla) - 170pts

14x Warriors - 168pts

Outrider [Sautekh] - 535pts
HQ - 75pts

Cryptek (SoL, Canoptek Cloak) - 85pts

Fast Attack - 579pts

5x Destroyers - 250

5x Tomb Blades (Gauss Blaster, Shadowloom, Shieldvanes) - 200pts

3x Scarabs - 39pts

Spearhead [Sautekh] - 659pts
HQ - 80pts

Cryptek (SoL) - 80pts

Heavy - 579pts

3x Doomsday Ark - 579pts

TOTAL POINTS - 1,997
TOTAL COMMAND POINTS - 9 (Battle Forged [3], Battalion [3], Outrider [1], Spearhead [1], Imotekh [1])

Ideally we'd set up the troops up front, Warriors up front with Immortals right behind, with Imotekh and Chronotek mixed in. Imotekh gives MWBD to both Tesla Immortals. Cryptek from Spearhead also comes along, stacking Technomancer. This gives both our Immortals a big buff, and with dual Crypteks, some really solid RP that will make the opponent worry. The Outrider detachment will have its Cryptek use the Veil to pull the Destroyers wherever we need them to take out a priority target. Tomb Blades are for general attack & objective. Scarabs are just there. I guess they can hold something. Finally, the Spearhead detachment will drop 3 DDA's on the back line for heavy support across the map.

The biggest decisions I'm having problems with are what Dynasties to use. Originally I had the Outrider set to Nephrekh for the movement benefits, but I felt that the Destroyers being able to shoot without penalty was more beneficial, so I put them in Sautekh as well. As for the Spearhead, I had them set to Nihilakh to give the DDA's rerolls on 1, but that left the Cryptek utterly useless, as his abilities would only target Nihilakh infantry, which there was none of. Thus I moved them all back to Sautekh.

Thoughts? Comments? Whispers of sweet nothings?

I would drop one of the cryptecs, make the warrior block 19 (for ITC mission style) and get some more scarabs. Get rid of this Cryptek (SoL, Canoptek Cloak) - 85pts; 5 warriors and 1 more scarab. Maybe even drop the 3rd cryptec for another unit of scarabs. If you are building a tourney list you need to have those troops to grab/contest objectives, and your core army of warriors and immortals will likely be blobbed around your HQ as a fire base.

Rottweiler wrote:

-Sentinel- wrote:

Rottweiler wrote:


I dont have much faith in FO.
Deepstriking 20 FO 9" away from enemy. If charge is failed, get shot and loose some models? Enemy moves back away from FO next movement and focus fire on FO, remaining FO flee... Its not easy.
Maybe best role for them as a mob to defend Monolith etc against CC? Or as a cheap 85pts objective capture/hold unit? But Deathmarks 95pts work as well considering they can shoot. But ultimatly Scarabs do this cheaper than both. If only Scarabs, FO and Deathmarks were infantry

Maybe with a Silver tide formation the Lychguard can act as a "shield" for the Warriors/Immortals? Moving out in front to take some hits then fall back to RP? Maybe their ultimate role is as an deterrant against being charged? Ofc. they can take the hits if Characters are being sniped.

Well yeah in brief i was pointing out the the problem with FO's IS crossing your fingers and hoping for an 8" but that they're killier than ShieldGuard even against big bad bastards not just chaff... if your only delivery plan is deep striking then... yes don't take FO's

 skoffs wrote:

Hmm, for real?
It's not a scenario that's ever come up for me before.
For reference, where does it talk about that part in the rulebook?

Can't check right now but I think it's in the matched play section where it limits stuff like psychic powers.

Edit: pg 214

poweroftwo wrote:

Well yeah in brief i was pointing out the the problem with FO's IS crossing your fingers and hoping for an 8" but that they're killier than ShieldGuard even against big bad bastards not just chaff... if your only delivery plan is deep striking then... yes don't take FO's

Yes, you get exacly 20 FO (17) for 10 Lychguards with Sword and board (34).
20 FO vs 10 Lychguard
60 S4 AP0 D1 vs 20 S6 AP-3 D1
20W vs 20W
4+ vs 3+/4++

Lychguard, the coolest CC model IMHO is probably, point for point, the worst CC specialist in the Necron Army.

10 Praetorians vs 10 Lychguard
10" vs 5"
30 S5 AP-3 D1 vs 20 S6 AP-3 D1
3+ vs 3+/4++
320 pts vs 340 pts
Pistol, Fly and Unshakable vs Dispersion Field Stratagem (-1CP)
Pratorians better without HQ support.

26 Scarabs vs 10 Lychguard
10" vs 5"
17 saves AP0 vs 7 saves with AP-3 (against T4)
78W vs 20W
6+ vs 3+/4++
338 vs 340

Gets beaten by Scarabs

Another example:
Wraithblades cost 1 point more than Lychguard.
Wraithblades get +1T, +1W, +1A, (and extra +1A on charging) and -1Ld.
Lychguard get 4++.

Can I use Wraithblades as allies?

 skoffs wrote:
destroyer spam

Hmm, not that it would be particularly good, or competitive, but this does make me wonder what Destroyer Spam would look like. I'm still not used to this whole 8th edition way of making lists with Detachments...

I remember in the old days we used to run 15 Regular and 9 Heavies, but I don't recall if that was 2000 point lists or if it was more.

 H wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
destroyer spam

Hmm, not that it would be particularly good, or competitive, but this does make me wonder what Destroyer Spam would look like. I'm still not used to this whole 8th edition way of making lists with Detachments...

I remember in the old days we used to run 15 Regular and 9 Heavies, but I don't recall if that was 2000 point lists or if it was more.

I don't remember advocating for Destroyer spam in this thread (I'm more in the "every list should have at least one unit of them" camp),
buuuuut six units of 6 comes to 1800. Upgrade a bunch of the units to have a Heavy, throw in a Destroyer Lord with the remaining points, and you'd have yourself a legal Outrider detachment.
Would it be good? Probably not, but if anyone's got 37 Destroyer models and wants to take it for a spin, might as well give it a try.

 H wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
destroyer spam

Hmm, not that it would be particularly good, or competitive, but this does make me wonder what Destroyer Spam would look like. I'm still not used to this whole 8th edition way of making lists with Detachments...

I remember in the old days we used to run 15 Regular and 9 Heavies, but I don't recall if that was 2000 point lists or if it was more.

I've done that in 4th at 1750 points. It was hard but it was pretty effective as long as you had supplementing Immortals at the time.

I don't recall my exact competitive list though. Maybe my storage unit here in Cali has my old codex and therefore my old notes.

 skoffs wrote:

 H wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
destroyer spam

Hmm, not that it would be particularly good, or competitive, but this does make me wonder what Destroyer Spam would look like. I'm still not used to this whole 8th edition way of making lists with Detachments...

I remember in the old days we used to run 15 Regular and 9 Heavies, but I don't recall if that was 2000 point lists or if it was more.

I don't remember advocating for Destroyer spam in this thread (I'm more in the "every list should have at least one unit of them" camp),
buuuuut six units of 6 comes to 1800. Upgrade a bunch of the units to have a Heavy, throw in a Destroyer Lord with the remaining points, and you'd have yourself a legal Outrider detachment.
Would it be good? Probably not, but if anyone's got 37 Destroyer models and wants to take it for a spin, might as well give it a try.

My out of context quote was certainly misleading to say the least and you didn't actually say it (I messed up the quote tag), my bad.

It was just out of curiosity, not a serious consideration. I only have 24 Destroyers anyway and one lost it's arm,

So, more realistically, perhaps like 3 units of 6 could be more reasonable? Might be something I'd try out, once I fix all the ones that are currently broken.

Anyone with any ideas on what to do with 5 Monoliths though?

Stupid me from 10 years ago...