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2018/03/28 15:51:02
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
So what are we thinking is the best weapons for Wraiths? Are whip coils still useless?
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2018/03/28 16:08:19
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
buuuuut six units of 6 comes to 1800. Upgrade a bunch of the units to have a Heavy, throw in a Destroyer Lord with the remaining points, and you'd have yourself a legal Outrider detachment. Would it be good? Probably not, but if anyone's got 37 Destroyer models and wants to take it for a spin, might as well give it a try.
Save 1-2CP for Resurection Protocols for the DLord and possibly to reroll? The remaining 2CP for Translocation Crypt (1CP: Deepstrike) to deepstrike 2 units. Only Deploying 1 Character and 4 units, likely to get initiative. Other viable Stratagems: Extermination Protocols (1CP: reroll failed hit/wound), Solar Pulse (1CP: Ignore cover) or enhanced reanimation Protocols (1CP: reroll 1s).
DLord w/Solar Staff (Assault 6 AP-3 D1 and 50% chance to blind), Phylactery and "Skin of living Gold"-1 to hit. (130pts)
Easy army to build? 12 boxes with 3 Destroyers (30£) 360£ 6 boxes heavy Destroyer upgrade pack (5£) 30£ 1 box with Destroyer 12,50£ 1 box of Destroyer Lord upgrade pack 7£ Chaos Black Spray 10,40£ Necon compound 2,55£ Total price 422.5£
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 16:41:59
2018/03/28 16:15:00
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Yes, you said 9 Tomb Blades with Tesla would get 36 shots.
but they would, they have two carbines, so that's 4 shots, 4 * 9 is 36 averaging one hit per shot is still 36...
Tesla Carbines have 1 shot. That was my whole point. You think they have 2.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/03/28 16:18:05
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: So what are we thinking is the best weapons for Wraiths? Are whip coils still useless?
Really depends on Dynasty. Sautekh would make T. beamer useful (no minus to hit with heavy weapon). But Novokh is maybe better (and cheaper) with reroll failed to hit in CC and with P. caster for a cheap setup with some nice shooting as you get to fall back, shoot and charge every turn. Also for 3CP you get an extra CC phase (too expensive tbh).
Whip coils would maybe be viable if they were cheaper ~5 and could be taken with a gun. Honestly, what is the chance of dying to ranged attack vs CC attack? 50/50? Then there is a 50% chance that you get to get 3 extra CC attacks. Shooting attacks you get every turn (when in range) and P. caster is only 4 pts vs 9 pts for the W.coils.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 16:32:39
2018/03/28 16:22:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
I have infrantry list with cryptek and overlord. I think about artifact. Veil is auto include? Its worth to take second? I think about voidreaper or voltaic staff.
2018/03/28 16:27:02
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
I still say Gauss is better for TBs. While you don't get the extra shots, having reliable AP means more models will die, and more importantly, you have a wider variety of valid targets.
One could argue using Dynasty codes to make the Tesla have better AP, but the counter argument would be that those same codes also improve the Guass Blasters.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 16:45:04
Galef wrote: I still say Gauss is better for TBs. While you don't get the extra shots, having reliable AP means more models will die, and more importantly, you have a wider variety of valid targets.
One could argue using Dynasty codes to make the Tesla have better AP, but the counter argument would be that those same codes also improve the Guass Blasters.
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The question becomes: at what point is too much AP overkill? AP-2 already ignores all chaff units and puts Scout equivalents to a 6+. Is ignoring 4+ (or 5+ in cover) better than getting the extra shots from Tesla procs? People have run the numbers and I'm pretty sure Tesla wins out against many armor values. However, if you're using TBs to chase down more heavily armored units, Gauss is useful.
In the current meta (tournament wide, not your local), hordes are a real thing. Guard, Termagants/Hormagaunts, Guardian blobs, and Cultists/Zombies are quite common. 2+ units like Terminators? Not so much.
2018/03/28 17:03:25
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Ill quote: "Tesla is better between 12" and 24" unless the enemy has a 2+ save, and within 12" for anything with a 6+ or 7+ save or an invulnerable one "
With Mephrit the above would be "...and within 12" for anything with a 5+, 6+ or 7+ save or an invulnerable one"
Gauss TB going inside 12" of anything that can charge them will probably do so and hurt them. Tesla TB, especially Mephrit with AP-1, would get so many overwatch shots that it would be very expensive to charge them.
If you get lucky and the attacker fails a charge or you kill the unit, would he charge again? Even if someone manages to charge the TB, as a flying unit the TB can use RP, fall back out of CC and shoot. MWBD is useless for overwatch. Immortals cannot fall back and shoot...
On the Gauss vs Tesla discussion it depends a lot on the opponent, however. I think TB with Tesla would be better in general, especially with Mephrit Dynasty and risking going inside 12". Tesla is more of a deterrent from charging and Gauss fails outside of 12 tbh. Also TB is worse than Destroyers in CC. TB+Mephrit+Tesla = Overwatch 18 hits S5 AP-1 D1 TB+Mephrit+Gauss= Overwatch 6 hits S5 AP-3 D1 If not taking TB with Tesla maybe take Destroyers instead.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2018/03/28 17:19:05
2018/03/28 17:18:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
7th edition codex has not been legal for 8th edition. Because they're different editions.
Since Index Xenos 1, which had the Necron rules, Tesla Carbines have been Assault 2. For the entirety of 8th edtion (hence 'all edition') Tesla Carbines have been Assault 2.
I don't know how this could be made more clear.
2018/03/28 18:12:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
So what dynasty do you guys think benefits the forgebane box the most? I am debating even making the lychguard, maybe make them also more immortals, it's not like the box doesn't have the alternative weapons. Or maybe 5 deathmasks and 5 immortals? So many options.
2018/03/28 18:32:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
2018/03/28 19:21:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Requizen wrote: The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
Why redundancy? They are 100% safe with 1CP.
2018/03/28 19:23:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Requizen wrote: The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
Why redundancy? They are 100% safe with 1CP.
Unless they completely surround the Night Scythe. If they surround it and keep it alive, you can't drop off the Lychguard. If they surround it and kill it, then you have nowhere to drop and they just die.
2018/03/28 19:33:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Requizen wrote: The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
Why redundancy? They are 100% safe with 1CP.
Unless they completely surround the Night Scythe. If they surround it and keep it alive, you can't drop off the Lychguard. If they surround it and kill it, then you have nowhere to drop and they just die.
That seems a bit unlikely, given the size of the base and how far they move in a turn.
2018/03/28 19:41:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Requizen wrote: The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
Why redundancy? They are 100% safe with 1CP.
Unless they completely surround the Night Scythe. If they surround it and keep it alive, you can't drop off the Lychguard. If they surround it and kill it, then you have nowhere to drop and they just die.
That seems a bit unlikely, given the size of the base and how far they move in a turn.
It does, but Genestealers with a Swarmlord can move something silly like 23" per turn on average, and Shining Spears can Advance and Charge a Scythe since they Fly. It's not impossible for Jump Pack Death Company or Sanguinary Guard to surround and pop it either. Heck, Nephrekh Wraiths/Scarabs can surround it with ease if you move it towards the middle of the board.
It won't happen every game, but it's far from impossible.
2018/03/28 19:56:38
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Kuguar6 wrote: I have infrantry list with cryptek and overlord. I think about artifact. Veil is auto include? Its worth to take second? I think about voidreaper or voltaic staff.
Promote my question. What do you think about artifact? Especjally about weapons. Are they worth 1 CP or 2 CP for third?
2018/03/28 20:17:24
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Kuguar6 wrote: I have infrantry list with cryptek and overlord. I think about artifact. Veil is auto include? Its worth to take second? I think about voidreaper or voltaic staff.
Promote my question. What do you think about artifact? Especjally about weapons. Are they worth 1 CP or 2 CP for third?
Depends on the rest of the list and how you want to play. Teleporting 20 Warriors with Veil is pretty much always going to be a good idea, it seems to be the best Relic in the book.
Since we don't really have any beatstick characters (only 4 attacks at most on the DLord, 3 or less on everyone else), melee weapons feel a bit ambitious. And we don't really want our characters standing on the front lines, so defensive ones might be a bit wasted depending on what you're facing. I think overall using support Relics (Veil, as the Orb is only so-so) or ranged weapons is best.
When in doubt, I would default to Veil. If you are Mephrit or Nephrekh, consider their guns, I suppose, but again it really depends on who it goes on and what the army looks like.
2018/03/28 20:23:52
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Kuguar6 wrote: I have infrantry list with cryptek and overlord. I think about artifact. Veil is auto include? Its worth to take second? I think about voidreaper or voltaic staff.
Promote my question. What do you think about artifact? Especjally about weapons. Are they worth 1 CP or 2 CP for third?
How is the army?
You would want the artifact to enhance the role of the Overlord/Cryptek for the army.
Veil is not auto include, does it enhance the army and its mission/goal.
I dont think 1 artifact is worth 2 CP unless it serves a very specific and important role.
