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2018/03/31 20:15:21
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Okay so after my first game with the codex. A few things I found were that the DDA is amazing. I sunk a leman russ in 1 hit by doing 14 wounds. That was off of only 3 hits. The flyers are equally amazing. I took 3 to test out the doomscythe stratagem. It was excellent. I caught my opponent who was playing death korp unaware. He had 3 9 man units of veterans a hellhound and a commissary within 3" of the point I chose. I did 7 to 2 units 4 to the 3rd. 7 wounds off the hellhound and failed to wound the commissary. My opponent was in awe. They were then within the Tesla range and half distance so -1 Ap. The 3 veteran units were deleted after the 3 doomscythes finished their shooting. This was on my turn 1. My opponent almost was going to concede but then tried to shoot 1 down. After sinking everything into 1 he failed leaving it with 2 wounds then preceded to concede.
2018/03/31 20:20:11
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
So how would people go about making a solid Novokh list? Really want to use this dynasty (no necron soup!) and haven't seen anyone seriously try it yet. Suggestions?
Roland - Chaotic Good: Saving existence was just a side quest.
"Do not suppose, my dearest sons, that when I have left you I shall be nowhere and no one. Even when I was with you, you did not see my soul, but knew that it was in this body of mine from what I did. Believe then that it is still the same, even though you see it not."
-Cyrus the Great (C. 600 - 529 BC)
2018/03/31 22:04:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Though their specific WL (6+ to hit gives an extra attack) would be nice, the Novokh dynasty heavily relies on the re-roll failed charge rolls warlord trait.
2018/04/01 00:02:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Roland - Chaotic Good: Saving existence was just a side quest.
"Do not suppose, my dearest sons, that when I have left you I shall be nowhere and no one. Even when I was with you, you did not see my soul, but knew that it was in this body of mine from what I did. Believe then that it is still the same, even though you see it not."
-Cyrus the Great (C. 600 - 529 BC)
2018/04/01 00:14:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Quick math, on killing a JP Sorcerer with Deathmarks.
4 wounds, 3+ save, T4. Each shot does:
2/3 hits
1/2 wounds and 1/6 mortal wounds
If Mephrit, 1/2 chance of the regular wound going through
For (2/3*1/6)+(2/3*1/2*1/2) points of damage per shot, or .28 points of damage.
In other words, you need 14 shots, or 7 Deathmarks. Not bad!
But if not Mephrit, you need...
18 shots, or 9 Deathmarks. Still not bad.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/04/01 02:03:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Awesome backfield firepower with 3 ddas, solid infantry blob for midfield push and fast scarabs for harassment. The ctan and immos storm take care of hard targets
I really want to see if there's some way to stick a unit of Destroyers into that Outrider...
4 wounds, 3+ save, T4. Each shot does:
2/3 hits
1/2 wounds and 1/6 mortal wounds
If Mephrit, 1/2 chance of the regular wound going through
For (2/3*1/6)+(2/3*1/2*1/2) points of damage per shot, or .28 points of damage.
In other words, you need 14 shots, or 7 Deathmarks. Not bad!
But if not Mephrit, you need...
18 shots, or 9 Deathmarks. Still not bad.
If taking Deathmarks, especially Mephrit, bringing a Lord in (by Veil, preferably with a unit of Immortals to help) is the best way to maximize their effectiveness. Granted, that only works if they're popping in on your turn, though.
2018/04/01 02:05:18
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
skoffs wrote: If taking Deathmarks, especially Mephrit, bringing a Lord in (by Veil, preferably with a unit of Immortals to help) is the best way to maximize their effectiveness. Granted, that only works if they're popping in on your turn, though.
Yeah, the idea is it's on THEIR turn.
Side note, did not realize two pages had passed since that post.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/04/01 05:43:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
So, everyone mentions that DDA are fairing really well for them, but how often are you having to move them? I'm having trouble deciding if I want them to be Sautekh or Nihiliakh. The main issue being how much you move them, to see if they Benefit from the Sautekh code or not.
I'm starting to have trouble fitting in the Sautekh detachment, but It is so hard to pass up on that Warlord trait. The extra 2-4 command points just seems too good to pass up.
Sasori wrote: So, everyone mentions that DDA are fairing really well for them, but how often are you having to move them? I'm having trouble deciding if I want them to be Sautekh or Nihiliakh. The main issue being how much you move them, to see if they Benefit from the Sautekh code or not.
I'm starting to have trouble fitting in the Sautekh detachment, but It is so hard to pass up on that Warlord trait. The extra 2-4 command points just seems too good to pass up.
I am having the same issue. When i started fitting out my Sautekh detachment with DDAs I really wanted the Re-rolling 1s so now I'm torn between Spearhead Sautekh detach. With 3 DDAs, THGS T.Stalker and Cloaktek. Or, Spearhead Nihilakh detach. With 3 DDAs, 8-9 Gauss Tomb Blades and Cloaktek.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/01 06:01:30
4 wounds, 3+ save, T4. Each shot does:
2/3 hits
1/2 wounds and 1/6 mortal wounds
If Mephrit, 1/2 chance of the regular wound going through
For (2/3*1/6)+(2/3*1/2*1/2) points of damage per shot, or .28 points of damage.
In other words, you need 14 shots, or 7 Deathmarks. Not bad!
But if not Mephrit, you need...
18 shots, or 9 Deathmarks. Still not bad.
Main problem is range. With 12" you need to place 10 models but yours target is behind screans and your opponent know yours ability...
2018/04/01 06:24:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
mhalko1 wrote: Okay so after my first game with the codex. A few things I found were that the DDA is amazing. I sunk a leman russ in 1 hit by doing 14 wounds.
Yes, but that's extremely unlikely. You can't judge something on the unlikely events it causes.
It averages the same damage as a 4 lascannon devesator squad and no one thinks they're amazeballs.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/04/01 06:40:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Odrankt wrote: Or, Spearhead Nihilakh detach. With 3 DDAs, 8-9 Gauss Tomb Blades and Cloaktek.
Why Tomb Blades with Nihilakh? Standing still seems like the last thing TBs want to be doing.
For jumping onto objectives. Giving them a mixture of Shieldvanes and Shadowlooms and the RALE Stratgem will make them 2+ save with a 4+ invul depending on how you kit them out. For roughly 400pts (including Cloaktek) that's 8 modles with T5, 2W, -1 to.hit when shot at, 2+ save, 4+ invul, +1 Reanimation and +1 attack if charged.
People used to charge my TBs during the Index if they weren't destroyed by focus fire. So, why not make them as durable as possible. They don't lose their movement but will be used to grab objectives and with movement 14-20" (depending if you advance or not) They should be able to go nearly everywhere on the board.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/01 06:43:48
a quick question: I ended up with 2 boxes of Lychguard/Praets and I don't really know which one to build and paint.
Afaik Praets are not getting any love in the new dex, right?
Are Lychguard with Warscythes a good allrounder to fit in most lists? (Since I don't have a specific listplan in mind)
lychguard are the way to go over praets but still neither pick is particularly competitive. Scytheguard when combined with a few more units for slingshotting (monoliths, night scythes, deceiver with zandrekh/obyron) are probably the better way to go since wraiths are just flat out better than sword and board guard except for a very narrow use
2018/04/01 13:16:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Hey guys, my brother and I would like to play against each other but he doesn't have any army so I thought we could split mine for the time being. What would be a good way to split my army into two relatively equal forces?
Spoiler:
++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons) [70 PL, 1193pts] ++
+ HQ +
Cryptek [6 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light
epaemil wrote: Hey guys, my brother and I would like to play against each other but he doesn't have any army so I thought we could split mine for the time being. What would be a good way to split my army into two relatively equal forces?
Spoiler:
++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons) [70 PL, 1193pts] ++
+ HQ +
Cryptek [6 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light
Defense to Alpha is reserves. Place units on TW or what whatever Deepstrike reserve they inherently get deploy after your opponent has had their Alpha. Monolith's ARE built for this. Yeah, we aren't going to necessarily be able to DS them in a choice location but you'll get to shoot and emergency Invasion Beam with it at the very least.
2018/04/01 14:35:47
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
stormcraft wrote: 381 points to safely deploy 2 units is ridiculous. If gw at least gave the the mono a 2+, or anything. Its sad....
You could use mass units naturally difficult to shift, i.e. Wraiths, QS vehicles and supported multiwound T5 units. Flayed Ones are a good option to keep away from alpha strikes. Also Nephrekh DSing Destroyers. There are options.
2018/04/01 15:23:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
stormcraft wrote: 381 points to safely deploy 2 units is ridiculous. If gw at least gave the the mono a 2+, or anything. Its sad....
Yeah, my obelisk feels the same way. It's just sad. 3+ t8 and stupid high wounds? It's too easy to punch through, they need like at least a 5++ save or a 6+++ on top of the 3+ to make them at least stand a chance of surviving a 2nd turn. I would gladly trade 4 or 6 wounds for a better save. Last game I played my obelisk lost 16 wounds to a single dev squad. 4 laz cannons, 3 hits, 3 wounds, and he rolled 5,5,6 for damage. Yes, it's an incredible roll and not normal, but we all have seen it and done it before (you know, you need 3 6's to save and get them, it never happens until it does then you feel like the top of the world).
Its sad, I paid a lot of money and put a lot of time into my obelisk, I just want it to not be total waste of points, it doesn't have to make its points back every game or anything, not asking for it to be op. But just good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/01 15:24:46
2018/04/01 15:41:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
stormcraft wrote: 381 points to safely deploy 2 units is ridiculous. If gw at least gave the the mono a 2+, or anything. Its sad....
Yeah, my obelisk feels the same way. It's just sad. 3+ t8 and stupid high wounds? It's too easy to punch through, they need like at least a 5++ save or a 6+++ on top of the 3+ to make them at least stand a chance of surviving a 2nd turn. I would gladly trade 4 or 6 wounds for a better save. Last game I played my obelisk lost 16 wounds to a single dev squad. 4 laz cannons, 3 hits, 3 wounds, and he rolled 5,5,6 for damage. Yes, it's an incredible roll and not normal, but we all have seen it and done it before (you know, you need 3 6's to save and get them, it never happens until it does then you feel like the top of the world).
Its sad, I paid a lot of money and put a lot of time into my obelisk, I just want it to not be total waste of points, it doesn't have to make its points back every game or anything, not asking for it to be op. But just good.
GW has not managed to get the Obelisk right yet, it's actually pretty sad. It's been pretty useless every single edition. I would think they'd give it a pretty major buff, as it has never come even close to powerful. Give it some kind of large buff to vehicles like a 5++ aura or something. This is the first edition they've really gotten the Vault right though, so I will at least hand it to them. 500 points does seem like a lot though.
so I played my first game against chaos today with necrons. We didn't use command points or stratagems, it was a friendly game vs my nephew.
I played mephrit, he did alpha legion.
I used a variation of silver wave. 2 squads of 20 warriors, a single squad of ten, backed up by overlord, cryptech, and ghost ark. Rest of the force was destroyers, heavy destroyers, dda, and a c'tan shard.
If the game had gone one more turn I would have won. As it is I lost due to a few key things, but the main one that I want to bring up is I played mephrit. Mephrit is cool, don't get me wrong, but if I had played sautekh it would have been a win easy. Our game was objective based and I simply could not move fast enough. I needed to advance twice with 20 warriors at the end and that was a lot of shooting to lose. I underestimated the idea of turning rapid fire into assault. Next time sautekh for sure.
2018/04/01 22:02:35
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Hypothetical question here, what force to take to fight 3 random/unknown opponents?
Is it possible to boil this down to the following points?
1# How to survive going second or how to survive Alpha?
2# How to cope with CC or Deepstrike army's? They generally want to be within 12" or in CC.
3# How to cope with shooty or Psychic army's? They generally want to be outside 12-24" and not in CC.
How do we maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses?
Can we agree that a Core element of a standard army can be a DDA Spearhead Detachment (Nihilakh or Sautech) with Cryptek for 664 points. This is 33% of a 2000 pts army.
With 3 DDA there shouldn't really be much need of more dedicated Antitank.
Spoiler:
Spearhead -Nihilakh- [Reroll 1 to hit, if not moved] (+1CP) 664
CloakCryptek (85) Repair DDA DDA (193)
DDA (193)
DDA (193)
So is it better to go for a slow moving Zombie Silver Tide with lots of bodies and guns?
Tactic for this to just march up and capture objectives, is it just an expensive horde army?
1# Silver tide should survive Alpha, even if one Warrior squad is vaporized (it has 5++) it is not a problem. All vehicles are QS.
2# With the scarabs and warriors properly placed there shouldn't be any room for Deepstrike. Properly staggered gun line with Scarabs should block CC armys, give the CC army the first turn!
3# Use Scarabs to tie up units, tarpit or draw fire as approriate, move tide up and try to get in range. Capture and hold Objectives.
Spoiler:
Battalion -Mephrit- [AP-1 at half range](+3CP -1CP) 1332 pts
CCB w/ Warscyth & Tesla. (162) Artifact: Lightning Field -Warlord- Immortal Pride.
Lord (83) Artifact: Veil of Darkness
ChronoCryptek (95)
20 Warriors (240)
20 Warriors (240)
10 Immortals Tesla (170)
GA (160)
5 Scarab (65)
5 Scarab (65)
4 Scarab (52)
There is a mobility issue. Necrons are stuck with 5" battalion movement and our only viable transports are expensive flyers and they don't have QS (they really should have it). Good thing about our transports is that they can transport multiple units, bad thing is that they cant pick up units again, hence the 5".
Shooty army can kite our infantry (Destroyers, TB, Wraiths or scarabs can counter that). CC army can probably move faster than us so we cant really kite them (again Destroyers, TB, Wraiths or scarabs can counter that).
SO is a fully mobile army to keep the opponent on their toes more viable?
Tactic for this to have DDA's kill off the enemy long range firepower while the fast movers kite and nip at the enemy where he is weak.
Fewer models, fewer wounds fewer guns. But ohboy the guns here rock. Its not just about having more guns, its about having more guns in position to kill what you want dead.
1# Destroyers must start in COVER, so should the other units. QS.
2# Kite CC units. Deathmarks can counter drop. Wraiths can just focus on priority targets.
3# Weakness against Psychic (Immortal Pride can help). The mobility will help the army dictate range, out of psychic range or to swiftly move into weak spots. Wraith and Deathmarks will help against characters/Psychers.
How about combining this into a mobile Silver tid... Silver squirt Tactic, move to and hold objectives. As all Warriors can start embarked the enemy basically only has QS vehicles to shoot at.
Rottweiler wrote: Hypothetical question here, what force to take to fight 3 random/unknown opponents?
Is it possible to boil this down to the following points?
1# How to survive going second or how to survive Alpha?
2# How to cope with CC or Deepstrike army's? They generally want to be within 12" or in CC.
3# How to cope with shooty or Psychic army's? They generally want to be outside 12-24" and not in CC.
How do we maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses?
Can we agree that a Core element of a standard army can be a DDA Spearhead Detachment (Nihilakh or Sautech) with Cryptek for 664 points. This is 33% of a 2000 pts army.
With 3 DDA there shouldn't really be much need of more dedicated Antitank.
Spoiler:
Spearhead -Nihilakh- [Reroll 1 to hit, if not moved] (+1CP) 664
CloakCryptek (85) Repair DDA DDA (193)
DDA (193)
DDA (193)
So is it better to go for a slow moving Zombie Silver Tide with lots of bodies and guns?
Tactic for this to just march up and capture objectives, is it just an expensive horde army?
1# Silver tide should survive Alpha, even if one Warrior squad is vaporized (it has 5++) it is not a problem. All vehicles are QS.
2# With the scarabs and warriors properly placed there shouldn't be any room for Deepstrike. Properly staggered gun line with Scarabs should block CC armys, give the CC army the first turn!
3# Use Scarabs to tie up units, tarpit or draw fire as approriate, move tide up and try to get in range. Capture and hold Objectives.
Spoiler:
Battalion -Mephrit- [AP-1 at half range](+3CP -1CP) 1332 pts
CCB w/ Warscyth & Tesla. (162) Artifact: Lightning Field -Warlord- Immortal Pride.
Lord (83) Artifact: Veil of Darkness
ChronoCryptek (95)
20 Warriors (240)
20 Warriors (240)
10 Immortals Tesla (170)
GA (160)
5 Scarab (65)
5 Scarab (65)
4 Scarab (52)
There is a mobility issue. Necrons are stuck with 5" battalion movement and our only viable transports are expensive flyers and they don't have QS (they really should have it). Good thing about our transports is that they can transport multiple units, bad thing is that they cant pick up units again, hence the 5".
Shooty army can kite our infantry (Destroyers, TB, Wraiths or scarabs can counter that). CC army can probably move faster than us so we cant really kite them (again Destroyers, TB, Wraiths or scarabs can counter that).
SO is a fully mobile army to keep the opponent on their toes more viable?
Tactic for this to have DDA's kill off the enemy long range firepower while the fast movers kite and nip at the enemy where he is weak.
Fewer models, fewer wounds fewer guns. But ohboy the guns here rock. Its not just about having more guns, its about having more guns in position to kill what you want dead.
1# Destroyers must start in COVER, so should the other units. QS.
2# Kite CC units. Deathmarks can counter drop. Wraiths can just focus on priority targets.
3# Weakness against Psychic (Immortal Pride can help). The mobility will help the army dictate range, out of psychic range or to swiftly move into weak spots. Wraith and Deathmarks will help against characters/Psychers.
How about combining this into a mobile Silver tid... Silver squirt Tactic, move to and hold objectives. As all Warriors can start embarked the enemy basically only has QS vehicles to shoot at.
I am a fan of silver tide but the major thing is mobility on the tide sucks. I really think either sautekh or or nephrekh, and seriously leaving at sautekh for it. Nephrekh gives you the advantage of being able to move more reliably, but sautekh let's you keep shooting as you move. Either way the faster we can get our tide into position the better they will be. And 40 gauss shots at 12" is devastating for anything it shoots at. 40 hits, hitting on 2's with mwbd, wounding tanks / dreadnoughts on 5's at ap-1, you can definitely do some wounds if you need to peel the last few wounds off of something big. I ran a 3rd 10 warrior squad in the ghost ark and while the ark did great (basically 10 warriors with quantum shielding and a second rp for the big squads, yes please ) the 10 died once they were targeted, it's just too easy to kill 10.
So I say sautekh, 2 squads of 20 warriors, ghost ark, cryptech with chronomatron and warlord trait immortal pride, and a squad of 10 immortals with tessela as the main force of the wave. Add the storm lord if you have the points, you have spent a little over half you army on the tide but it's an effective force. Warriors get 2 rp rolls a turn at a 4+ chance, never flee from moral, immortals get a single rp at 4+, never flee from moral, plus you can deny psychic powers, everything has a 5++ save vs heavier weapons, your ark is a pretty tough nut to Crack thanks to quantum shielding, and the storm lord can really come in handy with the storm calling ability when things go bad.
Take a second detachment, say, nihilakh with doomsday arks for the main firebase and anti tank work, or nephrek with destroyers in deep strike, we have a ton of options available to us to really allow necrons to not only force our opponents hands but to also adapt to what's happening on the field. I really can't wait to try some of the salad options we have available, only question is do we want ceased or chefs salad?
My regular game on Thursday I am thinking of trying this.
Spoiler:
++ (Faction) (Necrons) [56 PL, 1105pts] ++
+ Battalion +
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh
+ HQ +
Cryptek [6 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light
. . Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride
Imotekh the Stormlord [10 PL, 200pts]
+ Troops +
Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
I played a very similar list against Tau recently. Main changes were a third warrior squad instead of immortals, a transcendent C'tan instead of destroyers (don't own any yet).
It was against Tau, and he mostly had taken the invuln saves on his big suits. He also didn't deep strike in a commander and three crisis suits in on turn 1, for some reason. He later said it was to hit me when I'm not entrenched in a position anymore, due to my warriors being spread and excellently screening. I even daisy chained them turn 2 to keep him from striking behind me. In addition, he oddly focused my Scarabs instead of my warriors at first.
It worked fairly well, minus his strange play. At first. My warriors survived for a good while, being surprisingly durable between the warlord trait and improved reanimating stratagem.
But as time went on, he ended up slowly whittling me away. My C'tan got some good wounds on his commander and suits, but even with the +1 saves trait, he simply disengaged and shot it to death since the Scarabs had slowly been wiped away. In fact, I think the flamers from the crisis suits ended up doing it in. Very badly.
Maybe my arks were rolling badly, but I couldn't hit gak with them. And even when the hits got in, he usually hit his invuln (either a 4++ upgrade or the 3++ on his riptides) saves.
I don't think the list has enough offence to push back hard enough. I survived, sure, but it definitely ended in my loss.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
