Azuza001 wrote:Yeah, a few more Posts down from when I wrote that I agreed that I jumped the gun on partical caster tomb blades. If you have 9 and want the firepower of 7 double tessla than by all means go for it, math says it's the same but with more wounds. However I also point out not everyone has 9, and if you want the firepower of 9 but can only afford 6 then tessela will get you close.

skoffs wrote:

 Rottweiler wrote:
Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan.

I hope you're not planning on using the Lychguard Guardian Protocols ability with the C'tan.
(while it *is* a character, it does *not* have a <Dynasty>, and as the Guardian Protocols ability only works on <Dynasty> Characters, it's no good in their case).

Grimgold wrote:
I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.

At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.

Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.

v0iddrgn wrote:Maxed Tomb Blades (9) can be near an Immortal Pride WL to auto-pass Morale so you could save those CP's for something else.

ArtyomTrityak wrote:[I think the best W trait is character sniper. I would run it 100% time. CCB sniper is awesome.
Will try to run 9x practice TB. Units with 6xTB worked cool for me. Need to test units 9x

Xachariah wrote:

You direct attacks based on the incoming weapon profile. You can do that freely as long as you don't already have damage on a unit.

Lascannon shoots you up? Have the shadowlooms take the hit so you get the benefit of 5++.
Guardsman squad shoot you up? Send the attacks to the shieldvanes so you're using 3+.
Smite lands on your squad? It kills a normal (un-upgraded) model.

Trying to put both shadowlooms and shieldvanes on 9x models is a 25% increase per model. If you're not expecting to get shot at by a dozen lascannons, you can save 30 points by putting looms on 3 models instead of 6, and save another 18 points by doing the same with Shieldvanes. You get most of the benefit of the upgrades at 1/3rd the price.

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm doing this wrong

9 TB can statistically take 24 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & vanes takes 28 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & loom takes 36 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left.
Shadowloom gives 50% durability for 16% price increase and Shieldvanes give 17% for 9% cost increase.
Statistically 7 Razorbacks w/Lascannon and Twin Plasma would not kill the unit....

Heavy Bolter: 9 TB can statistically take 102 shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & vanes takes 136 shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & loom takes 102 HB shots and have 1 bike left.
Shieldvanes give 33% durability for 9% price increase.
22 Razorbacks w/Twin Heavy Bolter would statistically not kill the unit!

306 Stormbolter shots would still leave 1 left from 9 TB with vanes and without vanes its "only" 204 Stormbolter shots.
Shieldvanes give 50% Durability for 9% price increase.
So more than 306 Space Marines with Boltgun outside 12" are needed to prevent TB from getting RP...

In comparison:
306 Space Marines with Boltgun outside 12" would kill 51 Warriors or 34 Immortals, regardless of whether there is a Cryptek with them (5++).
136 Heavy Bolter shots would kill 41 Warrior and 31 Immortals, regardless of whether there is a Cryptek with them (5++).
36 lascannons shots kill 20 Warriors or 17 Immortals and 13 Immortals or Warriors with Cryptek (5++).

skoffs wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.

If you're still required to field units in their entirety instead of just being able to stick individual guys on the table I highly doubt you'll be seeing many Lychguard in Killteam lists.

 gmaleron wrote:
For points it says:

Immortals: 8/17

Is the 17 supposed to be in parenthesis or what does it mean?

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
For points it says:

Immortals: 8/17

Is the 17 supposed to be in parenthesis or what does it mean?

17pts is how much they cost each with their guns added in to their base 8pts I'm pretty sure. Weird they put it in their profile if that's the case

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

sieGermans wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)

It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.

Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.

sieGermans wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)

It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.

Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

Rocmistro wrote:
So that I don't need to read all 56 pages, does anyone go into greater detail at any point about the "grades" each unit type gets, and why?

Azuza001 wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:
So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.

I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.

I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.

Wraiths are already really expensive, I plan on building mine bare with no upgrades.

As for lychguard, my question is do you plan on playing for fun, semi competitive, or competitive?

Lychguard are not that good, I mean they are good but their lack of speed makes them not that good, most things that they would want to be getting into it with can stay outside their range. I plan on making mine into custom deathmarks, just use the immortal bodies and the left over deathmarks heads and guns from the immortal spruce.

Other people have run the math on tesla vs. gauss for the Immortals - largely, I think it comes down to what Dynasty you want to run, as well as what you expect to come up against. Tesla weapons are great fun against hordes, but the extra AP on the gauss has come in handy for me against Space Marines.

Requizen wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

I think the Nightbringer is great. He has more potential damage than the Deceiver between his better attacks and his shooting attack, and he's pretty good at popping heavy targets if he can reach them. He's also a smidge cheaper than the others, so that helps too. The main reason I don't think you'll take him over the others is that the Deceiver redeploy is very useful for nearly everything in the army, and that the T-C'tan has the absolutely insane Personalities (double powers and 3++ are the main ones that I think are fairly crazy). The Nightbringer is the better beatstick... but utility is occasionally (read: usually) better than just damage).

 gmaleron wrote:
Defintely a Noobie but I've put together a roughly 2k list that's built around Immortals as my core Troops, any recommended changes?

BATTALION:

DYNASTY: Mephrit

-Lord with Scythe and Orb
-Cryptek with Cloak

-x30 Immortals (2 with Tesla 1 with Gauss)

-x2 Stalkers with Particle Shredders

-x9 Wraiths

-x2 Nightshroud Bommers

TACTICS:

Wraiths screen my army pushing up the field as the "you have to shoot me" target while Phalanxes push up behind. Stalkers prioritise Armour and Heavy Infantry while Bombers target priority big threats with bombs and help with anti armour as their primary role.

Rek'han wrote:


Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .

I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!

punisher357 wrote:Does anyone know what the keywords are for the Triarch Stalker?

skoffs wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:
So that I don't need to read all 56 pages, does anyone go into greater detail at any point about the "grades" each unit type gets, and why?

Oh, right, codex is out.
Guess we better finalize the grading.
(can probably wait to see what everyone's updated consensus is once people get some games in and can determine for themselves what's what)

 gmaleron wrote:

Rek'han wrote:


Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .

I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!

I was running them as 1 giant squad of 9 to limit the number of drops and they are the Triarch Stalkers (not the tomb ones) and what is DDA?

 Ridge wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

Rek'han wrote:


Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .

I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!

I was running them as 1 giant squad of 9 to limit the number of drops and they are the Triarch Stalkers (not the tomb ones) and what is DDA?

Wraiths are max squad size of 6
DDA refers to DoomsDay Ark.

sieGermans wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha

Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)

It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.

Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.

Doctoralex wrote:
Heey folks,

I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.

Let me know what you think:

Guide to C'tan Powers

Spoiler:

Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods

Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.

First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!

Anti-Matter Meteor

Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.

Regular: A
Vault: B

The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)

Time's Arrow
Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.

Regular: B
Vault: A

The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.

Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)

Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.

Regular: A
Vault: C

An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.

Cosmic Fire

Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.

Regular: B
Vault: A

This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.

Seismic Assault
Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.

Regular:C
Vault: B

The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.

Trans dimensional Thunderbolt

Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.

Regular: B
Vault: C

I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.

keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.

So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?

Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?

Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt

Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?

Regular: Arrow, Meteor
Vault: Arrow, Meteor, Sky, Thunderbolt

Does your opponent have a large blob(s) of infantry?

Regular: Seismic Assault, Meteor
Vault: Seismic Assault, Thunderbolt, Sky, Time's Arrow

Does your opponent have MSU or simply a large amount of infantry units?

Regular: Sky, Meteor
Vault: Sky, Meteor, Thunderbolt, Cosmic Fire

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.

Horde, buffed by a FNP character

Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt

Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.

Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc

Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor

This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.

Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP

Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.

Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?

Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....

Cosmic Powers

Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.

Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!

 skoffs wrote:
Hey man, I just started the thing, anyone can actually post anything they want. I only ask people to spoiler things out of consideration for the people who are here just to check tactics information.
(I thought when you said battle report that it was going to be a written version, so would have been really long. If it's a video, you probably could have just posted the link without a spoiler. Sorry for the confusion)