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Ghetto Celestine already made a splash huh? Cool to know.

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
I notice nobody takes res orbs. Are they just considered not worth it?

Its a one use 35 point item. So no, not really, especially when compared to earlier incarnations. Its only really worth it if you use it on destroyers or lots of warriors, where even 1 destroyer will pay for the orb, and you have so many RP rolls with warriors you're bound to get at least 3.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
I notice nobody takes res orbs. Are they just considered not worth it?

Its a one use 35 point item. So no, not really, especially when compared to earlier incarnations. Its only really worth it if you use it on destroyers or lots of warriors, where even 1 destroyer will pay for the orb, and you have so many RP rolls with warriors you're bound to get at least 3.

Tomb Blades are pretty efficient for the Orb as well, but yeah overall I wouldn't buy the item at all.

Kuguar6 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
T.Vaults only don't get the benefits from Dynasty Codes if taken as Super Heavy Auxiliary. The restriction isn't there for the other methods of taking them in other Lord of War ok detachments.

Codex 108: ctan shard can never benefit from dynasty code. Valut have ctan key word.

Ah, I see the issue. Likely correct but could probably do with a FAQ to clarify whether it's the actual C'tan Shards or whether it's everything with the keyword. (if the later it really should have been worded better, ie. "Units with the C'TAN SHARD faction keyword.")

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
I notice nobody takes res orbs. Are they just considered not worth it?

Its a one use 35 point item. So no, not really, especially when compared to earlier incarnations. Its only really worth it if you use it on destroyers or lots of warriors, where even 1 destroyer will pay for the orb, and you have so many RP rolls with warriors you're bound to get at least 3.

Tomb Blades are pretty efficient for the Orb as well, but yeah overall I wouldn't buy the item at all.

Can't use it on them since they're not <Infantry>.

I played a 750pt game at my FLGS' league night last Thursday. It was my first game since probably July, and I have to say I'm much happier with how the army plays than I was with the index. Here's my list:



I began with my standard pre-game ritual of constructing an obelisk to the dice gods (I always carry a d4 for this purpose). My opponent was running Space Wolves. Don't know the exact loadout, but she had 5 Wulfen, 5 Intercessors, 5 Hellblasters, 10 Bloodclaws, and a Wolf Lord if I remember right. I built a Patrol detachment, but we didn't use stratagems/CP because we were both pretty new to 8th (I think she said this was only her third game of 40k, actually). I got first turn, and proceeded to roll a "1" for Grand Illusion (off to a good start, I see). I dropped the Deceiver right in front of the Wulfen, Hellblasters, and Wolf Lord. I dropped the Tomb Blades in behind the Hellblasters. Falling Stars Killed a Wulfen and a Hellblaster. Tomb Blades took out another two Hellblasters in the shooting phase, and the Tesla Immortals managed to kill two Bloodclaws. The remaining two Hellblasters took out my Tomb Blades (but they had already done what I wanted them to), and then charged the Deceiver along with the Wulfen and Wolf Lord. This is when the dice gods really started to favor me. Apparently, they looked upon the obelisk I had constructed in their honor favorably. Wulfen managed to do one wound to the Deceiver, and he did four to the Wolf Lord (who completely wiffed as did the Hellblasters). In my next turn, the Deceiver dropped another Hellblaster, one Intercessor, and a Wulfen with Falling Stars. I brought in my Deathmarks behind the Intercessors and killed two more of them, and, finally getting within half range, my immortals killed four Bloodclaws (that -1 AP really makes a difference, even on Tesla). The Overlord failed to wound with his staff. In combat, I killed the last Hellblaster and dropped the Wolf Lord to one wound. My opponent finally managed to get a few wounds on the Deceiver, and dropped him down the three wounds. The Bloodclaws charged my Immortals and killed three of them, but then the dice gods smiled upon me again, and I rolled three 6s for RP the next turn. From here, the match was fairly even. I managed to kill the Wolf Lord, but my C'Tan powers stopped hitting, and I just couldn't get past the stormshield on her Wulfen (but I saved every wound she made against the Deceiver). She ended up conceding after round 3.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
I notice nobody takes res orbs. Are they just considered not worth it?

From what I've gathered, most people don't like Silver Tide or infantry blobs in general, so Rez Orbs don't add much to the list. But are they bad? No, not at all.

What if you don't paint your Necrons silver? lol

I agree, there is too much good stuff in the codex to only take troops, and your opponent can burn down your units anyway.

I notice an orb has an annoying specification regarding troops. So you can't double res some Wraiths for example (after Repair Subroutines)
If you did want to do the 'silver tide', then one ghost ark is better than several orbs, for free. So there is not much to even want to use an Orb on.

Necrons tend to cost a lot of points because of RP. Does RP seem to be a big factor in games or are Necrons just generally overcosted?

Doomsday Arks seem popular. But what about a Tomb Sentinel? It can pop up and do basically the same thing but with 3 damage instead of D6. Less wounds and no QS, but higher T and save. No Flayer Array, but it's good in close combat and 13 points cheaper.
Also, If I were taking 2+ Doomday Arks, I would babysit them with a cloak cryptek and a spider for 2D3 healing as necessary.

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:

Doomsday Arks seem popular. But what about a Tomb Sentinel? It can pop up and do basically the same thing but with 3 damage instead of D6. Less wounds and no QS, but higher T and save. No Flayer Array, but it's good in close combat and 13 points cheaper.
Also, If I were taking 2+ Doomday Arks, I would babysit them with a cloak cryptek and a spider for 2D3 healing as necessary.

And the Sentinel shines under Sautekh, which we want for our Warlord trait (generally speaking). Plus, it can have a Gloom Prism right up in the enemy's face, which is one of the few ways 'Crons can handle psykers.

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
I notice nobody takes res orbs. Are they just considered not worth it?

From what I've gathered, most people don't like Silver Tide or infantry blobs in general, so Rez Orbs don't add much to the list. But are they bad? No, not at all.

What if you don't paint your Necrons silver? lol

I agree, there is too much good stuff in the codex to only take troops, and your opponent can burn down your units anyway.

I notice an orb has an annoying specification regarding troops. So you can't double res some Wraiths for example (after Repair Subroutines)
If you did want to do the 'silver tide', then one ghost ark is better than several orbs, for free. So there is not much to even want to use an Orb on.

Necrons tend to cost a lot of points because of RP. Does RP seem to be a big factor in games or are Necrons just generally overcosted?

Doomsday Arks seem popular. But what about a Tomb Sentinel? It can pop up and do basically the same thing but with 3 damage instead of D6. Less wounds and no QS, but higher T and save. No Flayer Array, but it's good in close combat and 13 points cheaper.
Also, If I were taking 2+ Doomday Arks, I would babysit them with a cloak cryptek and a spider for 2D3 healing as necessary.

Yeah, RP never really makes a big difference in more competitive games because smart opponents won't let you roll for it. Especially on Warriors, because they're a big, easy target to snuff out. The Ghost Ark is good, but realistically too expensive to bring just for it's RP boosting ability.

Yeah, RP is an aide, not a crutch. If you rely too much on it you are going to suffer. If you are going to rely on it, you better stack those buffs, because you are going to need every one of them.

The Warlord trait that autopasses morale checks help here. Losing the last few models in a squad due to morale is never good thing. If you are running silver tide, I'd highly advise it.

How we feeling with the new Dark Eldar 'dex out? Is the answer just *More Tesla?* How do we pop that many vehicles? I think destroyers would perform that task admirably.

 iGuy91 wrote:
How we feeling with the new Dark Eldar 'dex out? Is the answer just *More Tesla?* How do we pop that many vehicles? I think destroyers would perform that task admirably.

Honestly even Immortals are fine for pooping the vehicles I'd think.

Deathmarks have a use against Wyches and their characters as they are less durable.

What about CCB? I don't see these in most lists. Isn't this a great option for a tanky lord with extended MWBD? I like the idea of having a warlord that won't die, especially with the command trait to get back all my precious CP.

I plan to take a fair amount of Tesla Immortals to counter horde lists, and so having a Overlord is essential. A cheap sword overlord is 87 points, or to put him on a CCB is 161. this is almost twice the points... is it worth it?

I've been trying to make a decent list with the Nemesor and Obyron. It's really not easy to take advantage of the mantle and their abilities/synergies efficiently. These are just my thoughts on them as their fluff is awesome, and I can't wait for a competent writer to make a novel/book series about them.

You don't want to have to veil the Nemesor somewhere and follow with the mantle, as that would mean you have 3HQs and 1 unit somewhere potentialy isolated. And if they are not isolated, why use the veil at all and not just walk it.
The deceiver is another option, but I'm just not a fan. That just leaves using a Night Scythe/Monolith, or use the wonder twins in a defensive list and not an alfastrike or refused flank tactic.

Using them in a defensive manner is possible, but then you have to make the HQ come within 12" of you instead of the other way around, which is just not going to happen and very inefficient as the power goes of at the start of his turn.
Besides, if you're going to play defensive why pick Sautekh at all?

So that just leaves a transport. And since a Night Scythe is just throwing points away imo, is the only option you really have a Monolith or Deceiver? or would they work in any list, and am I making this more difficult than it needs to be?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
How we feeling with the new Dark Eldar 'dex out? Is the answer just *More Tesla?* How do we pop that many vehicles? I think destroyers would perform that task admirably.

Honestly even Immortals are fine for pooping the vehicles I'd think.

Deathmarks have a use against Wyches and their characters as they are less durable.

'

Fair enough. I think Venoms having a native -1 to hit makes them rough to fight since it negates tesla proccing. it seems like we wont have long to shoot with that much speed. Are counter assault units and scarab screens going to be the way to handle them?

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:
What about CCB? I don't see these in most lists. Isn't this a great option for a tanky lord with extended MWBD? I like the idea of having a warlord that won't die, especially with the command trait to get back all my precious CP.

I plan to take a fair amount of Tesla Immortals to counter horde lists, and so having a Overlord is essential. A cheap sword overlord is 87 points, or to put him on a CCB is 161. this is almost twice the points... is it worth it?

I personally think so. Faster movement, an additional Gauss cannon (which finally got better this codex), with MWBD at a longer range, more wounds, more toughness. Yeah I think it's a solid choice depending on your army composition. And it's the perfect choice for the Lightning Field relic.

Dont forget Destroyers. D.Eldar vehicles are T6.

Anni-barges or Particle shredder T.Stalkers are pretty good against D.Eldar with everything under T6 you be wounding on 3+ most of the time.

 Odrankt wrote:
Anni-barges or Particle shredder T.Stalkers are pretty good against D.Eldar with everything under T6 you be wounding on 3+ most of the time.

Vs Raiders and Ravagers, I could see the Annihilation Barges working well, but vs Venoms, they'll suffer, due to a lack of Tesla procs

 iGuy91 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
How we feeling with the new Dark Eldar 'dex out? Is the answer just *More Tesla?* How do we pop that many vehicles? I think destroyers would perform that task admirably.

Honestly even Immortals are fine for pooping the vehicles I'd think.

Deathmarks have a use against Wyches and their characters as they are less durable.

'

Fair enough. I think Venoms having a native -1 to hit makes them rough to fight since it negates tesla proccing. it seems like we wont have long to shoot with that much speed. Are counter assault units and scarab screens going to be the way to handle them?

Honestly Scarabs won't be terribly handy against the vehicles. Wraiths would do more damage, and ultimately once outside the vehicles the Kalabites are useless. With Wyches you would probably screen with the Scarabs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
How we feeling with the new Dark Eldar 'dex out? Is the answer just *More Tesla?* How do we pop that many vehicles? I think destroyers would perform that task admirably.

Honestly even Immortals are fine for pooping the vehicles I'd think.

Deathmarks have a use against Wyches and their characters as they are less durable.

'

Fair enough. I think Venoms having a native -1 to hit makes them rough to fight since it negates tesla proccing. it seems like we wont have long to shoot with that much speed. Are counter assault units and scarab screens going to be the way to handle them?

Honestly Scarabs won't be terribly handy against the vehicles. Wraiths would do more damage, and ultimately once outside the vehicles the Kalabites are useless. With Wyches you would probably screen with the Scarabs.

I'm more wondering how to keep our big guns shooting against something that fast. Was thinking Scarabs since they are our best cheap bubble wrap.
I agree wraiths will be good vs DE, but they'll be making a lot of saves vs them, since their T5 is negated. In my initial play with them, they've been excellent.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Anni-barges or Particle shredder T.Stalkers are pretty good against D.Eldar with everything under T6 you be wounding on 3+ most of the time.

Vs Raiders and Ravagers, I could see the Annihilation Barges working well, but vs Venoms, they'll suffer, due to a lack of Tesla procs

Use a Gauss Cannon Anni-barge in a Sautekh Spearhead Detachment so that way you are relying on the GC AP and Damage rather then the Tesla Cannons 6+ to pop. The d3 damage will also do a lot more reliable damage. And, you ignore moving and firing heavy weapons unless you advance.

Or, you could run a Supreme Command Detachment of 3 CCBs using GCs. No telsa to "rely" on and it's a way to get us a Tesseract Vault

 Odrankt wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Anni-barges or Particle shredder T.Stalkers are pretty good against D.Eldar with everything under T6 you be wounding on 3+ most of the time.

Vs Raiders and Ravagers, I could see the Annihilation Barges working well, but vs Venoms, they'll suffer, due to a lack of Tesla procs

Use a Gauss Cannon Anni-barge in a Sautekh Spearhead Detachment so that way you are relying on the GC AP and Damage rather then the Tesla Cannons 6+ to pop. The d3 damage will also do a lot more reliable damage. And, you ignore moving and firing heavy weapons unless you advance.

Or, you could run a Supreme Command Detachment of 3 CCBs using GCs. No telsa to "rely" on and it's a way to get us a Tesseract Vault

You can take 3 gauss cannons on destroyers for less that the points of an AB. Then for 1CP you can re-roll all hits and wounds. Or you can take an AB for 8 sad no-AP attacks just for the extra strength which is almost meaningless at 7. Are there any other heavy weapons in the game with just no AP? The AB is the worst unit in the codex for me. What in this game could the AB possibly 'annihilate' ?

You can take an AB in Mephrit so that it gets some AP, but you can't even do it first turn because models start more than 24" away and it moves 12" therefore you cannot get 'within' 12" unless you advance in which case you cannot get extra hits on 6 which is the only reason it doesn't have AP in the first place. The only value in in an AB is that it is the cheapest model with QS and moves decently fast so it can like hold an objective or something.

I think Annihilation Barges are paying for their sins just like Centurions were.

 Ridge wrote:

 Woolly.Mammoth wrote:

...

You can take 3 gauss cannons on destroyers for less that the points of an AB. Then for 1CP you can re-roll all hits and wounds. Or you can take an AB for 8 sad no-AP attacks just for the extra strength which is almost meaningless at 7. Are there any other heavy weapons in the game with just no AP? The AB is the worst unit in the codex for me. What in this game could the AB possibly 'annihilate' ?

You can take an AB in Mephrit so that it gets some AP, but you can't even do it first turn because models start more than 24" away and it moves 12" therefore you cannot get 'within' 12" unless you advance in which case you cannot get extra hits on 6 which is the only reason it doesn't have AP in the first place. The only value in in an AB is that it is the cheapest model with QS and moves decently fast so it can like hold an objective or something.

While they are now pretty outclassed for their benefit, the point of taking an AB over destroyers and such used to be that they weren't too bad for the price (when destroyers points were high af) and kept your heavier weapons save instead of splitting between them between tomb blades and destroyers for example, and gained the benefit of higher toughness and quantum shielding. They have their place in their own form of keeping the gauss cannons safe, but with new points costs I do agree they have been left in the dirt a bit, they have gone from one of our better units to a pretty average one.

I've bought the new start collecting and I'll be getting Forgebane soon so I was wondering how I should assemble the Lychguards/Praetorians. I don't really like Lychguards because, too slow/cc, I feel like if I used them they'd just hang around a character to soak out the sniping. So I thought about making them Praetorians but I see that they might not be worth it as I see the D grade on page 1. But I've read like 10 pages without seeing the reasons, I think they've been discussed early on and never brought up again in the discussion. Could someone explain to me why they are not good? I guess it's because of their price isn't it?

Praets are fine. They just got overlooked because Dynasty codes and synergies being the new hotness, and they're designed to be a completely independant flex unit.

It's been my experience that people will commit much more to killing pricey/effective units as opposed to cheap ones. Thus you are much more likely to get a RP roll on warriors than destroyers.

Rez orbs are a punishment mechanic, in case someone fails to wipe out a unit, you can rez orb to retroactively negate more of their firepower. The problem is they are kind of crap at it, since Rez orb happens at the beginning of the turn, you can't move before you activate so no turning a CCB into an ambulance. To be useful you have to predict were your opponent is going to fail and have a rez orb holder standing by, which is easier said than done.

If I could change two things to add a little more spice to necrons play, I'd change enhanced resurrection protocols to be 1 CP, and make the res orb happen at the end of movement (like a ghost ark currently functions). Those changes would make us stakeholders in RP, rather than bystanders who watch as our opponent decides where and what gets RP.

mfw you are entering a tournament on the weekend with mainly destroyers, wraiths, tomb blades and scarabs and one person has 3 macharius vulcans and a twin stormcannon array leviathan. rip all of the things

Hey guys so I need some gaming advice;

I've just bought a monolith and a T.vault. now in terms on LoS, do they both count as blocking LoS to unit behind? Could the enemy shoot under them if they can see my warriors feet? Do they block movement? I assume the mono does, but the vault appears to be quite floaty and I'm not sure whether someone can aruge they can pass under it/semi through it? For combat do they need to get into base contact? Or hull contact?

Basically I have a list that is;
T.vault
Mono
Deciever

I illusion up the table and basically deny space, movement and shooting priority, with the deciever sandwiched between the two to prevent closest shooting. On my turn unloading crapton of mortal wounds per turn and start spewing out Tesla immortals. More of a fun list, but I feel it has a few ways to play. I mostly play maelstrom, so focus on placing objectives tightly together, then if the enemy picks that side I illusion up the board and deny access with my big squares, unload out the back and take good positioning. If he picks the side with little objectives, I can refuse flank, there's lots I feel I can do to mess with the opponents plans. But basically it all rides on how my big squares interact with LoS and movement.