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 skoffs wrote:
You know, I keep seeing a bunch of people advocating for Silver Tide lists.
I don't have enough Warriors myself so I can't test them personally to see how they play. But from the people who *have* taken them out for a few games that reported back have found them very underwhelming.
So I'm just wondering: why are people recommending Warrior blobs? Do they know something the rest of us haven't caught onto yet?
For those people who took mass warriors out and had them do well, could you give us a report on how you were able to get them to work effectively for you?

I've had two games with a silver tide where I felt the Warriors performed well. Both lists were Mephrit and featured the same core:

Anrakyr (essential IMO)
Chronotek with Veil and ignore morale WL trait

2x 20 Warriors

Deceiver
Ghost Ark

My strategy was to keep the Warriors alive for the first couple of turns (while still contributing to the fight), because having enough firepower left to wipe 20 warriors in turn 3 of an 8th ed game is easier said than done. This actually turned out to be easier than I thought it would. You don't need to make it impossible for your opponent to wipe out the warriors- just provide a reasonable risk that they will fail to do so. A savvy opponent is not going to go all in on a blob of warriors when there's a chance they will fail and have 75% get back up. Especially when there are things like Immortals and destroyers to shoot at.

How you do this comes down to positioning, terrain and the threat range of the enemy units, so it's not something that's simple to describe. The Deceiver can really help with positioning at deployment (as well as providing the option for a Deceiver bomb).

I lost vs Custards and won vs DE but both warrior squads finished both games at basically full strength.

A basic starting strategy is to deploy the HQs and 5 out of 20 of each warrior unit behind LOS blocking terrain. If your opponent can wittle a warrior squad down to 6 and then hit the last visible model with enough firepower to kill it and it's hidden friends, then it's squad wipe. But what if they leave you with 1-5 hidden models after their initial attack? This is the conundrum your opponent is faced with and will usually result in them shooting something else.

Against DE, my opponent managed to pull off a mass turn 2 charge with Wracks, Witches, characters and Incubi. I screened my warriors with immortals and scarabs which all died. The "I've made a terrible mistake" look on my opponents face when he was figuring out if he should pile into the warriors or not was priceless. Take 40 attacks (Anrakyr) off each unit of warriors now, in order to prevent them shooting, or get rapid fired and charged in my turn? There was no good choice here. I put MWBD on both squads and they slaughtered everything.


The Silver tide is something you need to play carefully (so will never bit a top tier net list) but it can be good.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

[...]
A basic starting strategy is to deploy the HQs and 5 out of 20 of each warrior unit behind LOS blocking terrain. If your opponent can wittle a warrior squad down to 6 and then hit the last visible model with enough firepower to kill it and it's hidden friends, then it's squad wipe. But what if they leave you with 1-5 hidden models after their initial attack? This is the conundrum your opponent is faced with and will usually result in them shooting something else.
[...]
The Silver tide is something you need to play carefully (so will never bit a top tier net list) but it can be good.

Awesome read, left what I gather is the take-home message, the LOS positioning is very important to make the RP worthwhile.

But what about armies that you likely have to march up to face on their turf? AM and Tau? Surely then it's harder to keep models out of LOS.

torblind wrote:


Awesome read, left what I gather is the take-home message, the LOS positioning is very important to make the RP worthwhile.

But what about armies that you likely have to march up to face on their turf? AM and Tau? Surely then it's harder to keep models out of LOS.

That bit I put in was just the easiest thing to describe. You don't always need to be out of LOS to survive, it's more about which enemy units you're in range of and how easily the opponent can focus fire. Sometimes you can conga line the warriors out so that taking casualties from the front/one side will put some units out of range. E.G two unit of fire warriors can move into triple tap range but the casualties from the first unit might put the second down to 1 shot each. You're not looking to catch your opponent out but hope that they understand the maths and the risks involved if the dice don't go their way.

It's really something that needs to be played with to see how often you can make it work- it will definitely fail sometimes!

The Deceiver and Veil are there to help close the gap with gunlines because you really don't want to be waddling towards them at 5" a turn.


Another general tip I would add is that it is often best to spread the Warriors out. It makes it harder to focus their fire but that's often not as important as staying alive. When trying to wipe out a Warrior unit with rapid fire guns and/or assault units the opponent needs to be very careful that you can't remove casualties to put their units out of range. If they have to spend a while scratching their chin working out which unit to put where and what order to resolve their attacks in it may deter them from taking the risk.

Da W wrote:

willow wrote:

Spoiler:

Kuguar6 wrote:

3 DDA, 30 immo, 3 hq and C'tans are good cron. Throw others and buy valut or destroyers. You can get some scarabs and deathmarks.

Da W wrote:
Well i hate spamming so when i started seeing desto + wraith spam, i called them OP. People ain't spamming triarch do they?

Here for fun, ill run my collection, see if i can do a good list.

I HAVE:
-All Sauteck characters
-Anrakyr who has been my index go to guy unitl now
-CCB + a couple of overlords, lords and crypteks

-30 warriors
-30 immortals, 20T 10G
-10 Deathmarks
-10 Lychguard + scythe
-10 Triarch Pretorian + voidblade+pistol
-2 Triarch stalker
-C'Tan Deceiver
-C'Tan Nighbringer
-Too many scarabs
-2 DDA
-1 magnetised ghost ark i can turn to a 3rd DDA
-2 monoliths

WHAT I DONT HAVE (cause they sucked in the index)
-Destro
-Wraiths
-Obelisk/ Vault
-Barges
-Flyers

So what do you think? Can i win a tournament with that or do i NEED to purchase desto and wraiths?

Ok no. Just, no. Don't throw or sell your other stuff.

the CCB is good, as are the immortals. With the units you have, you might try running a silver tide style list. Or try 7e style Triarch stalker buffs for your DDAs. Those are just quick ideas off the top of my head, I'm sure you can come up with more.

What you need to figure out is whether you can build a list that plays to the strengths of the units you have. At a local tournament, playing well in a style you're comfortable with is half the battle won.

Well i did play a lot with the index. Using 30 warriors worked better than just 30 immortals cause my 20 unit didn't die as easily. At least 10 tesla immortals but more than that it was often wasted. Guass immortals only if i don't have other AP stuff. 3 DDA i used often, now they're twice as good! Used to have 2 triarch stalkers too but that's when DDA only made D3 shots, so now i'm not so sure.
Also played with 1 or 2 monoliths and lychguards coming out. Its fun, but not competitive. Still if you can take out the ennemy's heavy weapons, dealing with 2 monoliths is hard. And teleported lychguard can kill just about anything, it's just expensive to teleport them.

And scarabs. Always, always, pack in scarabs. Even more now that they can blow up. I'll try a brigade tomorow to have ample CP and at least 12 scarabs. Will ever RP them!

But my MVP during the index days (not that i won too often from november to now) was the TRIARCH PRETORIANS. That's right, you read it right. Combined with Anrakyr, they pumped 4 attacks + a gun. That's 40 S5AP-3 attacks. Could take down flyers, which actually happened almost every game while i used my big guns to shoot at non -1 to hit targets. They always got killed sooner or later, but at least got their point's worth. And that was 350pts back in the days, now down to 320.

So i'm not sold on wraith while lychguard can still pack more punch and pretorians are just as mobile.
I agree i need to find 6 destros. That teleporting destro thing is a killer! But wraith, i mean try the other stuff. For the same price it's not obvious.

How are you getting 4 attacks + gun? I only see base 2 attacks, and with Anrakyr its +1

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I have assembled Obelisk so maybe now i need to disassemble it and assemble Vault. Heh... anyone has experience in disassembling Obelisk? Or any generic guidance how to disassemble models...
Also does anyone have manual how to assemble Vault? I didn't keep mine...

If you used superglue, freezing the model can weaken the bonds and make it slightly brittle. I've had good luck freezing minis to pop arms/guns off that were superglued on. If you used plastic cement or glue, that's going to require some patient cutting, as that actually melts the plastic together.

 Dynas wrote:

Da W wrote:

willow wrote:

Spoiler:

Kuguar6 wrote:

3 DDA, 30 immo, 3 hq and C'tans are good cron. Throw others and buy valut or destroyers. You can get some scarabs and deathmarks.

Da W wrote:
Well i hate spamming so when i started seeing desto + wraith spam, i called them OP. People ain't spamming triarch do they?

Here for fun, ill run my collection, see if i can do a good list.

I HAVE:
-All Sauteck characters
-Anrakyr who has been my index go to guy unitl now
-CCB + a couple of overlords, lords and crypteks

-30 warriors
-30 immortals, 20T 10G
-10 Deathmarks
-10 Lychguard + scythe
-10 Triarch Pretorian + voidblade+pistol
-2 Triarch stalker
-C'Tan Deceiver
-C'Tan Nighbringer
-Too many scarabs
-2 DDA
-1 magnetised ghost ark i can turn to a 3rd DDA
-2 monoliths

WHAT I DONT HAVE (cause they sucked in the index)
-Destro
-Wraiths
-Obelisk/ Vault
-Barges
-Flyers

So what do you think? Can i win a tournament with that or do i NEED to purchase desto and wraiths?

Ok no. Just, no. Don't throw or sell your other stuff.

the CCB is good, as are the immortals. With the units you have, you might try running a silver tide style list. Or try 7e style Triarch stalker buffs for your DDAs. Those are just quick ideas off the top of my head, I'm sure you can come up with more.

What you need to figure out is whether you can build a list that plays to the strengths of the units you have. At a local tournament, playing well in a style you're comfortable with is half the battle won.

Well i did play a lot with the index. Using 30 warriors worked better than just 30 immortals cause my 20 unit didn't die as easily. At least 10 tesla immortals but more than that it was often wasted. Guass immortals only if i don't have other AP stuff. 3 DDA i used often, now they're twice as good! Used to have 2 triarch stalkers too but that's when DDA only made D3 shots, so now i'm not so sure.
Also played with 1 or 2 monoliths and lychguards coming out. Its fun, but not competitive. Still if you can take out the ennemy's heavy weapons, dealing with 2 monoliths is hard. And teleported lychguard can kill just about anything, it's just expensive to teleport them.

And scarabs. Always, always, pack in scarabs. Even more now that they can blow up. I'll try a brigade tomorow to have ample CP and at least 12 scarabs. Will ever RP them!

But my MVP during the index days (not that i won too often from november to now) was the TRIARCH PRETORIANS. That's right, you read it right. Combined with Anrakyr, they pumped 4 attacks + a gun. That's 40 S5AP-3 attacks. Could take down flyers, which actually happened almost every game while i used my big guns to shoot at non -1 to hit targets. They always got killed sooner or later, but at least got their point's worth. And that was 350pts back in the days, now down to 320.

So i'm not sold on wraith while lychguard can still pack more punch and pretorians are just as mobile.
I agree i need to find 6 destros. That teleporting destro thing is a killer! But wraith, i mean try the other stuff. For the same price it's not obvious.

How are you getting 4 attacks + gun? I only see base 2 attacks, and with Anrakyr its +1

The sword gives +1 A

Ah thanks. Why would you take Rod of Covenenat over Voidblade and Particle caster, they are the same points and range. Plus the pistols still get ot shoot once you get into combat. Seems like the rods are pointles.
For the Praetorians it says they do NOT gain the benefit of the Dynastic Code, however can you still target them with other Dynasty traits: example

Say I have Zahndrekh, can the Praetorians be considered Sautehk infantry (though not gain the Relentless Advaance bonus of it) and be targeted by the Transient Madness? OR are they basically considered Dynastyless (chapterless) and get no benefits nor can be targeted by any abilities of the benefit?

Edit: Also it looks like the Zadndrekh and Szeras are 2 different buffs. You could really buff up a 20 blob of warriors for some hurt.

 Dynas wrote:
Ah thanks.
For the Praetorians it says they do NOT gain the benefit of the Dynastic Code, however can you still target them with other Dynasty traits: example

Say I have Zahndrekh, can the Praetorians be considered Sautehk infantry (though not gain the Relentless Advaance bonus of it) and be targeted by the Transient Madness? OR are they basically considered Dynastyless (chapterless) and get no benefits nor can be targeted by any abilities of the benefit?

No benefit from Zahndrekh, as they lack a <Dynasty> keyword. Anrakyr, Szeras, and Imohtekh could still buff them, as some of their abilities just target friendly NECRONS or NECRON INFANTRY.

Any idea on how to best handle flyers with a -1 to hit? Tesla is obviously a bust because the -1 prevents extra tesla procs.

I'm leaning towards destroyers. Thoughts?

 Dynas wrote:
Ah thanks. Why would you take Rod of Covenenat over Voidblade and Particle caster, they are the same points and range. Plus the pistols still get ot shoot once you get into combat. Seems like the rods are pointles.
For the Praetorians it says they do NOT gain the benefit of the Dynastic Code, however can you still target them with other Dynasty traits: example

Say I have Zahndrekh, can the Praetorians be considered Sautehk infantry (though not gain the Relentless Advaance bonus of it) and be targeted by the Transient Madness? OR are they basically considered Dynastyless (chapterless) and get no benefits nor can be targeted by any abilities of the benefit?

Edit: Also it looks like the Zadndrekh and Szeras are 2 different buffs. You could really buff up a 20 blob of warriors for some hurt.

Rods have AP-3 in shooting, that's the only real difference. Rods are better as a fast harassment piece - run over, shoot a unit with AP-3, charge a different unit with AP-3, if you get stuck in with something you don't want to be, just fall back and shoot because <FLY>.

Zahndrekh and Szeras are both random abilities, and therefore usually bad.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any idea on how to best handle flyers with a -1 to hit? Tesla is obviously a bust because the -1 prevents extra tesla procs.

I'm leaning towards destroyers. Thoughts?

Yeah, massed Gauss cannon fire is generally a reliable bet. They have sufficient weight of fire to force some hits through.

Don't forget you have some wildcard options in CC. Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and C'tan can all FLY and hit hard enough that you can seriously threaten an aircraft in melee with them if your opponent gets careless with his positioning. Not something you can necessarily rely on but don't be afraid to pounce if the opportunity presents itself.

Just a reminder that Necrons are being featured on Warhammer Live today, starting in a few minutes...

Requizen wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Ah thanks. Why would you take Rod of Covenenat over Voidblade and Particle caster, they are the same points and range. Plus the pistols still get ot shoot once you get into combat. Seems like the rods are pointles.
For the Praetorians it says they do NOT gain the benefit of the Dynastic Code, however can you still target them with other Dynasty traits: example

Say I have Zahndrekh, can the Praetorians be considered Sautehk infantry (though not gain the Relentless Advaance bonus of it) and be targeted by the Transient Madness? OR are they basically considered Dynastyless (chapterless) and get no benefits nor can be targeted by any abilities of the benefit?

Edit: Also it looks like the Zadndrekh and Szeras are 2 different buffs. You could really buff up a 20 blob of warriors for some hurt.

Rods have AP-3 in shooting, that's the only real difference. Rods are better as a fast harassment piece - run over, shoot a unit with AP-3, charge a different unit with AP-3, if you get stuck in with something you don't want to be, just fall back and shoot because <FLY>.

Zahndrekh and Szeras are both random abilities, and therefore usually bad.

Yeah it is a gamble, but there is always the CP reroll Say you get the +1 Str and +1 Attacks. You can move a warrior blob within Rapid rife, unload 40 shots with MWBD and hit on 2+, then charge (MYBD buff as well) and get another 40 attacks at at S5 hitting on 2's. Not to mention if you get Zahndrekh within 12" you shut down any buffs they may have.


Another combo I just saw was taking a vehicle say a DDA or a Triarch Stalker or a Tesseract Vault and camp a Canoptek Spyder and Cryptek with a Canoptek Cloak. That thing will be regaining 2D3 wounds every turn.

 Dynas wrote:

Another combo I just saw was taking a vehicle say a DDA or a Triarch Stalker or a Tesseract Vault and camp a Canoptek Spyder and Cryptek with a Canoptek Cloak. That thing will be regaining 2D3 wounds every turn.

Combos like this are always a gamble. Can you regen enough wounds that the healers are better value than simply taking a second unit of X? A Tesseract Value is really tough now with a 4++ and bucket-load of wounds so might be worth it. A single Stalker or DDA runs the risk of being blown to bits before it can be repaired. For my money the DDA is a better bet as its long range means it can hang back to minimise retaliation while its quantumn shielding makes it hard for high damage weaponry to take it down quickly as opponents tend to have to resort to death by a thousand papercuts (or plasma burns).

 Karhedron wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

Another combo I just saw was taking a vehicle say a DDA or a Triarch Stalker or a Tesseract Vault and camp a Canoptek Spyder and Cryptek with a Canoptek Cloak. That thing will be regaining 2D3 wounds every turn.

Combos like this are always a gamble. Can you regen enough wounds that the healers are better value than simply taking a second unit of X? A Tesseract Value is really tough now with a 4++ and bucket-load of wounds so might be worth it. A single Stalker or DDA runs the risk of being blown to bits before it can be repaired. For my money the DDA is a better bet as its long range means it can hang back to minimise retaliation while its quantum shielding makes it hard for high damage weaponry to take it down quickly as opponents tend to have to resort to death by a thousand papercuts (or plasma burns).

Agreed. Just sort of thinking out loud. I like the Triarch Stalker model, and the Target Relay still seems good. I know people say its expensive, but I actually want to try some of this stuff. A lot of information is just regurgitated based on 1 or 2 youtube reviews and never actually tested.

Requizen wrote:

Zahndrekh and Szeras are both random abilities, and therefore usually bad.

The wording on their abilities is slightly different. Zahndrekh gets to roll for an ability, THEN choose a unit.

Szeras gets to choose a unit, THEN roll for an ability.

I really wish the wording on Szeras was more like Zahndrekh...

Hey guys, quick question: how do Tomb blades compare with Destroyers? Can they be interchangeable or do they fill different roles?

Necronplayer wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Zahndrekh and Szeras are both random abilities, and therefore usually bad.

The wording on their abilities is slightly different. Zahndrekh gets to roll for an ability, THEN choose a unit.

Szeras gets to choose a unit, THEN roll for an ability.

I really wish the wording on Szeras was more like Zahndrekh...

Oh. Good catch, i totally missed that. Could come in handy if you had multiple units to choose from. Like if you got BS both times. No point in double stacking to 1+


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, quick question: how do Tomb blades compare with Destroyers? Can they be interchangeable or do they fill different roles?

Well the biggest 2 things destroyers have going for them are the stratagem and the fact they are INFANTRY and can be targeted by the buffs of a lot of the HQ's. Tomb Blades have the speed advantage and could be usefull for rapid deployment or zipping onto objectives and getting into backlines doing biker stuff.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, quick question: how do Tomb blades compare with Destroyers? Can they be interchangeable or do they fill different roles?

Different roles.

I haven't gotten to try out destroyers yet, but on paper, they are our best AV (T6-T8) when using the Extermination Protocols strategem.

Tomblades fill the anti infantry roll (T5 and lower). I've tried a unit of 9 Gauss Tomb Blades(4x shield vanes, 4x shadowloom) this past weekend and while getting in RF range is nice, you lose that -1 to hit once you get in CC. Granted, whatever MEQ unit I pointed them at, they wiped them handily.

Though, my suggestion would be to play them as a skirmisher unit with Tesla and float around 24" targeting screens/infantry.
While they can't get MWBD, you can use the Sautekh Methodical Destruction strategem for some fun

 Karhedron wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any idea on how to best handle flyers with a -1 to hit? Tesla is obviously a bust because the -1 prevents extra tesla procs.

I'm leaning towards destroyers. Thoughts?

Yeah, massed Gauss cannon fire is generally a reliable bet. They have sufficient weight of fire to force some hits through.

Don't forget you have some wildcard options in CC. Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and C'tan can all FLY and hit hard enough that you can seriously threaten an aircraft in melee with them if your opponent gets careless with his positioning. Not something you can necessarily rely on but don't be afraid to pounce if the opportunity presents itself.

Scarabs can fly now too. And lucky DDA Shots can give them a hard time too.

Necronplayer wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, quick question: how do Tomb blades compare with Destroyers? Can they be interchangeable or do they fill different roles?

Different roles.

I haven't gotten to try out destroyers yet, but on paper, they are our best AV (T6-T8) when using the Extermination Protocols strategem.

Tomblades fill the anti infantry roll (T5 and lower). I've tried a unit of 9 Gauss Tomb Blades(4x shield vanes, 4x shadowloom) this past weekend and while getting in RF range is nice, you lose that -1 to hit once you get in CC. Granted, whatever MEQ unit I pointed them at, they wiped them handily.

Though, my suggestion would be to play them as a skirmisher unit with Tesla and float around 24" targeting screens/infantry.
While they can't get MWBD, you can use the Sautekh Methodical Destruction strategem for some fun

I just did an analysis on this the previous page...

 skoffs wrote:
I decided to run the offensive numbers on some Mephrit Tomb Blades configurations.
Turns out the Tesla vs Gauss contest is not going to be easy to pick a winner-

Spoiler:

9x Mephrit Tesla TBs

9x Mephrit Gauss TBs

They both appear to have good things going for them in different regards but Tesla seems to be a bit better (the scales might tip in Tesla's favor even more if you use the Talent for Annihilation strat on them, though, what with every 6 being extra hits AND extra to-hit rolls which may themselves generate more extra hits on a 6).

Compare to some similar point equivalent Nephrekh Destroyers. They seem to preform pretty well!

Spoiler:

6x Nephrekh Destroyers
...
However, if you pop the Destroyer strat things get insane very quickly...

(... though I'm worried with these numbers I may have accidentally done something wrong)

Awesome, thamis for the replies

I'll probably use the Tomb Blades as alternatives to Immortals/Warriors then if I don't want as many of them sometimes

 skoffs wrote:

I just did an analysis on this the previous page...

 skoffs wrote:
I decided to run the offensive numbers on some Mephrit Tomb Blades configurations.
Turns out the Tesla vs Gauss contest is not going to be easy to pick a winner-

Spoiler:

9x Mephrit Tesla TBs

9x Mephrit Gauss TBs

They both appear to have good things going for them in different regards but Tesla seems to be a bit better (the scales might tip in Tesla's favor even more if you use the Talent for Annihilation strat on them, though, what with every 6 being extra hits AND extra to-hit rolls which may themselves generate more extra hits on a 6).

Compare to some similar point equivalent Nephrekh Destroyers. They seem to preform pretty well!

Spoiler:

6x Nephrekh Destroyers
...
However, if you pop the Destroyer strat things get insane very quickly...

(... though I'm worried with these numbers I may have accidentally done something wrong)

You certainly did! The only thing I'd comment on is that this analysis looks like it puts both Tomb Blades configurations within 12"? I'd argue that's not a place you want to put a unit that gets -1 to hit only against shooting attacks, unless you can reliably wipe a unit or lock them up with another.

If you put them outside that range, Destroyers will shine even more for AV in that comparison. And results will lean even more towards Tesla compared to Gauss, at least until you're firing into a -1 to hit army...

Necronplayer wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

I just did an analysis on this the previous page...

 skoffs wrote:
I decided to run the offensive numbers on some Mephrit Tomb Blades configurations.
Turns out the Tesla vs Gauss contest is not going to be easy to pick a winner-

Spoiler:

9x Mephrit Tesla TBs

9x Mephrit Gauss TBs

They both appear to have good things going for them in different regards but Tesla seems to be a bit better (the scales might tip in Tesla's favor even more if you use the Talent for Annihilation strat on them, though, what with every 6 being extra hits AND extra to-hit rolls which may themselves generate more extra hits on a 6).

Compare to some similar point equivalent Nephrekh Destroyers. They seem to preform pretty well!

Spoiler:

6x Nephrekh Destroyers
...
However, if you pop the Destroyer strat things get insane very quickly...

(... though I'm worried with these numbers I may have accidentally done something wrong)

You certainly did! The only thing I'd comment on is that this analysis looks like it puts both Tomb Blades configurations within 12"? I'd argue that's not a place you want to put a unit that gets -1 to hit only against shooting attacks, unless you can reliably wipe a unit or lock them up with another.

If you put them outside that range, Destroyers will shine even more for AV in that comparison. And results will lean even more towards Tesla compared to Gauss, at least until you're firing into a -1 to hit army...

Like I said, this was just a Mephrit load out example, and Mephrit usually wants to be inside half range.
In that they've got fly at least they can fall back and shoot things that might try to come after them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
Just a reminder that Necrons are being featured on Warhammer Live today, starting in a few minutes...

Spoiler:

Watching the game now.
The guy who was SUPPOSED to play was sick, so they got someone else to play.
This person (Jamie) does not play Necrons and made a list after looking at the codex during his 30 min lunch break.
This is the list he came up with... ... the chat is going crazy.

"Literally the worst necron list ever"
"Its not "optimal" but hey, its fun"
"Not optimal? spaghetti in gak sauce would be better"
"absolute shambles"
"While I appreciate Jamie stepping up to showcase this army could we get a proper Necron player and list to play live on WarhmmerTV? A close combat dynasty and close combat warlord trait with a shooty army just is not that great. It just feels disrespect to Necron players."
"Like seriously, if you're trying to sell Necrons why would you have a list like this... so frustrated right now as a dedicated Necron player..."

Did some math hammer. Went against normalised T5 Armor 4+ target for offense and S5 ap-2 for defence. Computed both single wound and multi-wounds. Renormalised everything on a 300pts investment basis (which is the price of 6 destroyers).
This is all based on pure stats. I don't rate extra perks such as invasion beam or giving reroll 1 to hit and such. Nor do i rate movement, which is of course important. Plan accordinly.

Warriors: C - only really useful in large number in a combo with ghost ark, cryptek+chronometron against multiple wounds shooting armies.
Immortals: B - best used in tesla with MWBD vs 5++swarms, but you all know that. Probably the best infantry clearing unit we have.
Deathmarks: D - can't find any use based solely on stats
Flayed ones: B - second best infantry cleaner after pretorians, but with the best potential combo of all: Immotek, Anrakyr, Orikan, giving 4 attack reroll 1 to hit to wound and 5++ save in combat. Theorically inflicts more wound than destroyers even!
Lychguard: A - Surprised? Naked they inflict just as much wounds as immortals or destroyers on 1W infantry, maxed out (again Anrakyr +1A) this is the highest damage output vs multiple wounds opponents we have.
Preorians: A- Surprised again? This is the best autonomous unit in our codex. They can go alone and pump more damage than all others. They weakens vs multple wounds stuff yet can still pack some punch.
C'Tan Nighbringer: B. Best character killer going naked without buffs. Period.
C'Tan Deceiver: C. All around less good than Nightbringer. I did not rate its teleportation trick though. But if you don,t plan to use its trick, stick with nightbringer.
Scarab: B. Best all around number of effective HP / point spend, period. 2nd more resistant vs multiple wound dealing ennemies after the ghost ark.
Wraith: A. My maths have to admit it although they are not my favorite. 3rd most resistant unit point for points, yet can still pack a punch vs multple wound opponents. Warning: the damage output is half that of a fully maxed lychguard or flayed one unit. Will hit lower than scarab vs 1W infantry swarms.
Tomb blades: C. Offense relatively suck (compared to lower cost infantry) but they are resiliant vs 1-w weapons.
Destroyers: A - 2nd best damage output vs multple wounds (after Nightbringer) going naked, you can combo with a Dlord or the stratagem they will match nightbringer. Even good vs 1wound infantry which surprised me.
Heavy destroyers: D. Point for points, unless yu have very specific targets, take regular destoryers.
Triarch stalker: B. Very robust, offensively made to use its flamer and charge.
Doomsday ark: A. Very random, can go from 1 shot up to 26. 6th best damage output and 3rd best when ignoring melee units. Also though to crack, an all around auto-include.
Ghost ark: B. Cheaper than DDA so point for point it's worth more defensively. I would always use it if i use warrior, not much for the RP boost, but the extra defense and attack they bring.
Monolith: D. Nothing to do, its average in everything. Its really the invasion beam trick that does the difference (best way to launch lychguards and flayed ones in your opponent's face).
Annihilation barge: D. Sucks.

I stopped there cause it was my midday break.

Best combos:
1) Tesla immortals + overlord + lord + Stalker (or equivalent stratagems)
2) Destroyer + deepstrike (or C'tan deceiver) + destroyer lord (or stratagem) +res orb
3) Lychguard + Anraky + Orikan getting charged, or + Monolith
4) Flayed ones + Immotek (really not necessary) + Anraky + Orikan + Invasion beam / +C'tan deceiver + Nightmare shroud (-3 cumulative morale). This is the most customisable unit.
5) Doomsday ark +Stalker + sauteck stratagem
6) Wraith + Cryptek + cloak + RP stratagem
7) Scarab + lots of CP + MW stratagem + RP stratagem + spider
8) Lots of warrior + cryptek + chronometron + ghost ark + lord and may be even overlord, going meprhit.

Da W wrote:
Did some math hammer.

Spoiler:

Went against normalised T5 Armor 4+ target for offense and S5 ap-2 for defence. Computed both single wound and multi-wounds. Renormalised everything on a 300pts investment basis (which is the price of 6 destroyers).
This is all based on pure stats. I don't rate extra perks such as invasion beam or giving reroll 1 to hit and such. Nor do i rate movement, which is of course important. Plan accordinly.

Warriors: C - only really useful in large number in a combo with ghost ark, cryptek+chronometron against multiple wounds shooting armies.
Immortals: B - best used in tesla with MWBD vs 5++swarms, but you all know that. Probably the best infantry clearing unit we have.
Deathmarks: D - can't find any use based solely on stats
Flayed ones: B - second best infantry cleaner after pretorians, but with the best potential combo of all: Immotek, Anrakyr, Orikan, giving 4 attack reroll 1 to hit to wound and 5++ save in combat. Theorically inflicts more wound than destroyers even!
Lychguard: A - Surprised? Naked they inflict just as much wounds as immortals or destroyers on 1W infantry, maxed out (again Anrakyr +1A) this is the highest damage output vs multiple wounds opponents we have.
Preorians: A- Surprised again? This is the best autonomous unit in our codex. They can go alone and pump more damage than all others. They weakens vs multple wounds stuff yet can still pack some punch.
C'Tan Nighbringer: B. Best character killer going naked without buffs. Period.
C'Tan Deceiver: C. All around less good than Nightbringer. I did not rate its teleportation trick though. But if you don,t plan to use its trick, stick with nightbringer.
Scarab: B. Best all around number of effective HP / point spend, period. 2nd more resistant vs multiple wound dealing ennemies after the ghost ark.
Wraith: A. My maths have to admit it although they are not my favorite. 3rd most resistant unit point for points, yet can still pack a punch vs multple wound opponents. Warning: the damage output is half that of a fully maxed lychguard or flayed one unit. Will hit lower than scarab vs 1W infantry swarms.
Tomb blades: C. Offense relatively suck (compared to lower cost infantry) but they are resiliant vs 1-w weapons.
Destroyers: A - 2nd best damage output vs multple wounds (after Nightbringer) going naked, you can combo with a Dlord or the stratagem they will match nightbringer. Even good vs 1wound infantry which surprised me.
Heavy destroyers: D. Point for points, unless yu have very specific targets, take regular destoryers.
Triarch stalker: B. Very robust, offensively made to use its flamer and charge.
Doomsday ark: A. Very random, can go from 1 shot up to 26. 6th best damage output and 3rd best when ignoring melee units. Also though to crack, an all around auto-include.
Ghost ark: B. Cheaper than DDA so point for point it's worth more defensively. I would always use it if i use warrior, not much for the RP boost, but the extra defense and attack they bring.
Monolith: D. Nothing to do, its average in everything. Its really the invasion beam trick that does the difference (best way to launch lychguards and flayed ones in your opponent's face).
Annihilation barge: D. Sucks.

Sure, from a pure statistical standpoint some of these might seem good (eg. Lychguard), but how are you supposed to get these well performing units into combat?
And if ignoring certain potential buffs then obviously you're going to be missing out on combos that might elevate a unit's ability (eg. Mephrit Deathmarks with a Lord nearby being quite lethal).

I have been thinking tat tomb blades and destroyers really compliment each other. Tomb blades can put out a lot of hits against all targets, but do the most against T3-5 targets, while destroyers do incredible amounts of damage against T5-11 targets. With this in mind, I was thinking about running this list. It should do a lot of damage to just about any target it is pointed at.

Game_maker wrote:
I have been thinking tat tomb blades and destroyers really compliment each other. Tomb blades can put out a lot of hits against all targets, but do the most against T3-5 targets, while destroyers do incredible amounts of damage against T5-11 targets. With this in mind, I was thinking about running this list. It should do a lot of damage to just about any target it is pointed at.

Spoiler:

Outrider Detatchment:
Dynasty: Mephrit

HQ:
Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak

Fast Attack:
9 X Tesla Tomb Blades (3 Shadowlooms, 6 Shieldvanes)
9 X Tesla Tomb Blades (3 Shadowlooms, 6 Shieldvanes)
3 X Scarabs

Outrider Detachment:
Dynasty: Sautekh

HQ:
Cryptek with Chronometron
Warlord Trait: Hyperlogical Strategist

Fast Attack:
6 X Destroyers
6 X Destroyers
6 X Destroyers

Outrider Detachment:
Dynasty: Sautekh

HQ:
Destroyer Lord with Phylactery and Warscythe
Relic: Nanoscarab Casket

Fast Attack:
3 X Scarabs
3 X Scarabs
3 X Scarabs

Total CP: 6

That looks pretty vicious.
Why have the Cloak-tek as warlord instead of, say, the Destroyer Lord? If he's got the Nano-Cask he's going to be very hard to kill, meaning, if he's Sautekh, you'll be able to get more potential command dice back (unless your idea was to just run and hide the Tek).
Maybe consider making one of the detachments from Nephrekh (Scarabs would prefer that too). May be worth changing one Destroyer squad out for Wraiths, too, just in case you need something tied up that Scarabs wouldn't be able to handle on their own.

 skoffs wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Just a reminder that Necrons are being featured on Warhammer Live today, starting in a few minutes...

Spoiler:

Watching the game now.
The guy who was SUPPOSED to play was sick, so they got someone else to play.
This person (Jamie) does not play Necrons and made a list after looking at the codex during his 30 min lunch break.
This is the list he came up with...

Spoiler:

| Jamie | | Necrons (Novokh Dynasty)
Catacomb Command Barge Staff of light and Tesla Cannon and Resurrection Orb,
Anrakyr the Traveller,
5 lychguard with Warscythes,
10 necron warriors,
10 Necron Warriors,
20 Necron Warriors,
Monolith,
3 Doomscythes.

... the chat is going crazy.

"Literally the worst necron list ever"
"Its not "optimal" but hey, its fun"
"Not optimal? spaghetti in gak sauce would be better"
"absolute shambles"
"While I appreciate Jamie stepping up to showcase this army could we get a proper Necron player and list to play live on WarhmmerTV? A close combat dynasty and close combat warlord trait with a shooty army just is not that great. It just feels disrespect to Necron players."
"Like seriously, if you're trying to sell Necrons why would you have a list like this... so frustrated right now as a dedicated Necron player..."

Game was called at the end of round four, with Ceri (Tyranids) winning. Jamie (Necrons) was hindered by his army choice and available models (at one point he mentioned that he would have taken a warscythe on a model instead of a Staff of Light, but since he was using the Studio Novokh army there was no model available).

So, Praetorians being eligible for Imotekh's MWBD; doesn't that kind of help them dramatically?