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2018/04/30 07:48:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Doctoralex wrote: [SCARABS! Where are the cuddly little bugs man! You need at least two minimum units of them to sit on objective markers. Though I have no id where you could get the points from....
... just drop some warriors to free up points. Anything over 15 in a unit is fine for them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 07:51:49
2018/04/30 08:09:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Doctoralex wrote: [SCARABS! Where are the cuddly little bugs man! You need at least two minimum units of them to sit on objective markers. Though I have no id where you could get the points from....
... just drop some warriors to free up points. Anything over 15 in a unit is fine for them.
Yea, I was thinking Warriors too. Though Turning the CCB into a budget Overlord pretty much covers the cost as well.
2018/04/30 08:24:25
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
See, I'm trying to figure out if I want Immo Pride and the CCB to make those 2 20 warriors more survivable. Or, take Szeras and the warriors could become T5 and 4+ RP which might help in the long run. I think 2 15 units will be okay in what I want them to do (Literally stop my opponent from moving past his DZ).
I want to bring Scarabs but trying to figure out a way to bring them is quite a challenge. I would like them to be in the Nephrekh detach do that they can move 16" across the table. In fact, if I was to take 2 9 Scarabs unit with Nephreak I would probably GI those 2 units up so that they would end their movement within an inch of the enemy and definitely stopping them from getting any board control.
Im going to re-do my list and see what I can do to make it better. Would dropping a Destoryer modle make the Destroyer unit weaker? Those 50pts can allow me more room to mess around.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 08:35:41
It's my favorite little combo of juxtapositions (light/dark, immortality/death),
Balance Keepers: 1x Lord (Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness)
10x Immortals (Gauss)
10x Deathmarks
Everything drops in within 12", so they're all getting rapid fire *and* Mephrit code's extra -1 AP (except the Lord, but he's just a bonus 3 S5 AP-2 shots to finish something off). Plus the reroll 1s to wound for everyone. If used in coordination with Nephrek Destroyers coming in turn 2 there's going to be some major hurt located in one corner of the table.
That's sorta what I was thinking too. Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
GK - 2k Points
IK - 3k Points
Tau - 2k Points
DR:80S++G++M+B+IPw40k00#+D++A++/sWD-R++T(T)DM+
2018/04/30 09:55:26
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Da W wrote: My 2nd unit of destroyer got shot down by 18 intercepting mephrit Deathmarks. Wow, there's some use to these son of bitches. Who knew...
I knew.
I've been trying to tell people for a while now. Mephrit Deathmarks are vicious, especially if near a Lord (the potential to turn 1s into mortal wounds should not be underestimated). MSU units of them are very versatile, but I'll probably just stick to my one unit of 10. Those three units of 6 would have come in real handy, though. May even be a good idea to include to make a Brigade detachment.
I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
It seems like they need to use their counter deep strike ability to be worth taking, and that you need to take a large enough amount of them to actually cripple what you are countering. I think a unit of 10 Mephrit Marks kill about 5 MEQ which is hardly crippling.
2018/04/30 10:57:41
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
So, ran a massive game yesterday, I myself fielding 5.5k points. All Sautekh. Was a lot of fun. Imotekh dealt the final wounds to a Stormsurge, so that was dope. Ended the game with 90% of my stuff still alive, and my team won (It was me and a very small detachment of my friends AM, as he's still learning the game).
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/04/30 11:00:37
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem.
If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong.
Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 11:02:05
2018/04/30 11:07:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Jackers wrote: Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
Tesla loves Mephrit so any unit carrying it wouldn't be bad.
But Gauss Blasters are also quite fond of the extra bump in AP-.
Being the case, Tomb Blades are great in any Mephrit detachment (even more so if they're a big unit of Tesla ones within 12" that get Talent for Annihilation buffed on then. That is going to be a lot of hurt).
Additionally, the HQ sniper CCB can only be run as Mephrit.
Personally I always try to make sure I run a Sautekh Warlord so I can get Hyperlogical Strategist, so I don't actually know how well this runs, but I've heard it's great.
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
Tesla loves Mephrit so any unit carrying it wouldn't be bad.
But Gauss Blasters are also quite fond of the extra bump in AP-.
Being the case, Tomb Blades are great in any Mephrit detachment (even more so if they're a big unit of Tesla ones within 12" that get Talent for Annihilation buffed on then. That is going to be a lot of hurt).
Additionally, the HQ sniper CCB can only be run as Mephrit.
Personally I always try to make sure I run a Sautekh Warlord so I can get Hyperlogical Strategist, so I don't actually know how well this runs, but I've heard it's great.
Thanks for the info. I'd forgotten about the sniper barge, that combined with some Deathmarks should make short work of enemy characters. I have a similar issue, I'm worried I would just want to take a Sautekh warlord every time for that trait. I don't have enough stuff to game yet, but I love coming up with lists and ideas in advance, lol.
Tesla Tomb Blades do interest me, as do Destroyers and Wraiths, but I'm not sure how I would organise all the units into detachments.
GK - 2k Points
IK - 3k Points
Tau - 2k Points
DR:80S++G++M+B+IPw40k00#+D++A++/sWD-R++T(T)DM+
2018/04/30 12:19:44
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
It's my favorite little combo of juxtapositions (light/dark, immortality/death),
Balance Keepers: 1x Lord (Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness)
10x Immortals (Gauss)
10x Deathmarks
Everything drops in within 12", so they're all getting rapid fire *and* Mephrit code's extra -1 AP (except the Lord, but he's just a bonus 3 S5 AP-2 shots to finish something off). Plus the reroll 1s to wound for everyone. If used in coordination with Nephrek Destroyers coming in turn 2 there's going to be some major hurt located in one corner of the table.
That's sorta what I was thinking too. Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
maybe Gauss Tombblades...
2018/04/30 12:23:28
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem. If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong. Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
I wasn't taking into account their sniping character potential because it's an incredibly situational ability that any sensible opponent will prevent you from using in rapid fire range. The other problem is that if you don't wipe out the character you drop on (quite likely) you will often have effectively achieved nothing as no other units can finish them off. Between their ability to deep strike without needing any extra tricks, the possibility of maybe bagging an out of position character, and the ability to slightly blunt an enemy deep strike, I'd say they can just about justify their increased cost over Immortals. How useful they will be is match up dependent. While they are not terrible we have a lot of other choices that are definitely good to take instead.
Rake in the mortal wounds? You mean inflict about three from a unit of 10 with the help of 1CP and a VoD character.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
I think it speaks to the effectiveness of destroyers that that list managed to do well. I assume the idea is to buff them with the Dlord, Crypteks and 3x MWBD. That's a lot of investment in Destroyers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 13:03:14
2018/04/30 13:10:35
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem. If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong. Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
I wasn't taking into account their sniping character potential because it's an incredibly situational ability that any sensible opponent will prevent you from using in rapid fire range. The other problem is that if you don't wipe out the character you drop on (quite likely) you will often have effectively achieved nothing as no other units can finish them off. Between their ability to deep strike without needing any extra tricks, the possibility of maybe bagging an out of position character, and the ability to slightly blunt an enemy deep strike, I'd say they can just about justify their increased cost over Immortals. How useful they will be is match up dependent. While they are not terrible we have a lot of other choices that are definitely good to take instead.
Rake in the mortal wounds? You mean inflict about three from a unit of 10 with the help of 1CP and a VoD character.
Well given that the average amount of damage a unit of 10 Mephrit Deathmarks boosted by a Lord and using Talent for Annihilation against a T4 character with a 3+ 4++ is 9.07, its more than enough. Even without the Lord and just the Stratagem the damage averages out to 7.78. Mephrit Deathmarks are no joke when it comes to killing characters when they get the chance, which due to the 9" rule is harder than one would like. Despite that, you still can't count them out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 13:20:43
2018/04/30 13:21:26
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Well given that the average amount of damage a unit of 10 Mephrit Deathmarks boosted by a Lord and using Talent for Annihilation against a T4 character with a 3+ 4++ is 9.07, its more than enough. Even without the Lord and just the Stratagem the damage averages out to 7.78. Mephrit Deathmarks are no joke when it comes to killing characters, especially in lower point games when people may not be able to afford the most effective bubblewrap.
The maths is decent, now you just need an enemy character to be less than 3" back from the their screening units.
2018/04/30 14:02:44
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
The maths is decent, now you just need an enemy character to be less than 3" back from the their screening units.
The math is great, but I agree that screening units a big problem for the Deathmarks. They rely on your opponent to screw up their positioning to give you an opening, but if they do that character is pretty much deleted off the board. It would really help if they could DS closer and in turn not be able to charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 14:04:10
2018/04/30 14:30:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Arachnofiend wrote: Any advice for beating Aeldari armies? It feels like any shooting I take is going to get smacked by stacked - to hit and any attempts at bringing melee up the board is just going to get nuked by Forewarned. I can't even rely on my destroyers because EP will just get denied by Agents of Vect every turn. I feel I can make lists that would be at least manageable against any other army but I can't for the life of me come up with something that'd do well against the space elves.
Just a quick chime in for this. You know what Alaitoc doesn't defend against? Melee and MWs. Wraiths and C'tan (and potentially Vault) are your friends in this matchup, they'll blow through most defenses and Wraiths wound most Eldar on 2+ (the rest on 3+ except maybe some vehicles). And those pesky flyers? C'tan charge them and Power them.
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
2018/04/30 16:29:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/04/30 16:48:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
Or real hordes list. Like 100+ bodies, especially those have inv saves on them. 18 Destroyers are strong, but that is only 54 shots. They only likely to kill around T4 25ish bodies each turn.
2018/04/30 16:55:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
_Ness wrote: why did he went for sauthek on the outrider?
maybe because his destroyer lord is Sautekh, and he can advance and shoot so his destroyers' mobility is better. No need to worry about -1 to hit, he got enough overlords to mitigate that, so still hit on 3s rerolling 1s, and also reroll 1s to wound with the Dlord.
2018/04/30 18:19:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
The Destroyer Cults rise again. The time of the Crimson Harvest is at hand.
(though seriously, I only ever run a single unit because of Extermination Protocols. Could probably try a redundancy unit as backup/support, but I don't think I'd ever run three or more. If 900+ points of my list are tied up in one type of thing all it takes is the meta getting wise to it and we'll start seeing lists built to specifically counter it).
In other topics, if worried about landing space for Deathmarks trying to get at characters, I guess we could use Doomsday Arks on turn one to try to open up a good chunk of table real estate?
2018/04/30 18:31:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
The more I think about it, going overly specialized is bad for us. We need a variety of things on the table because our weapons are fairly specialized. Our Dynasty Codes push us to specialize, but with the strategies being usable only once per phase and our relative lack of auras we are not able to capitalize on those specializations.
For instance, I think that we'll get more mileage out of a unit of wraiths than the 3rd unit of destroyers. (Provided you aren't trying to make the wraiths into destroyers).
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2018/04/30 19:53:59
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Anpu-adom wrote: The more I think about it, going overly specialized is bad for us. We need a variety of things on the table because our weapons are fairly specialized. Our Dynasty Codes push us to specialize, but with the strategies being usable only once per phase and our relative lack of auras we are not able to capitalize on those specializations.
For instance, I think that we'll get more mileage out of a unit of wraiths than the 3rd unit of destroyers. (Provided you aren't trying to make the wraiths into destroyers).
Agreed.
95% of the lists I make involve 3 units in an outrider. Those units are either 6 wraiths, or 6 Destroyers in some combination. The rest is basically a fearless mephrit phalanx and the veil of darkness to negate counter assaults.
or otherwise.
12 Wraiths, 6 Destroyers
or
12 Destroyers, 6 Wraiths
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/04/30 20:51:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
My problem is,
We're spoiled for choice in the Fast Attack slot, but I want them to be different Dynasties.
ie.
Mephrit Tomb Blades
Novokh Wraiths
Nephrekh Destroyers
Nephrekh Scarabs
At the moment I'm just sticking with the typical 6x Destroyers, 3x Scarabs, 3x Scarabs Nephrekh Outrider, but I think I want to try maybe adding some Wraiths into the mix. And Tomb Blades too, and, oops, looks like that'll cost a fortune.
2018/05/01 01:18:29
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
I think pure Sautekh and pure Nephrekh have a place, but the absolute best armies will probably be mixed dynasties. It wouldn't surprise me if the "powerful but narrow" design of the dynastic codes is an intentional design in order to give Necrons some ability to compete with the larger soup armies.
2018/05/01 02:29:32
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Nagerash wrote: I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
Spiders are pretty bad. Even with the gloom prism they arent really a good use of points. People have mixed views on warriors, personally i dont think they are worth it. Id get rid of the warriors and ghost ark and spyder. Take more immortals and either another DDA or a transcendent Ctan.
2018/05/01 02:41:43
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
A Nephrekh chronotek or two running alongside destroyers can provide an invul and better RPs, but I think 12 destroyers and some wraith is better.
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