Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

MrPieChee wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2 Storm Bolters and the Rhino is 74 points. They're actually very durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable for us to just get Open Topped back for the Ghost Ark.

The ghost ark has 2.5 times the firepower (not including the extra -1ap), and is significantly more durable. Making it open top would give it 5 times the number of shots while a unit is on board - there's no way that wouldn't incur a point increase!

Ok let them transport and heal immortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about something like this

Sn33R wrote:

MrPieChee wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2 Storm Bolters and the Rhino is 74 points. They're actually very durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable for us to just get Open Topped back for the Ghost Ark.

The ghost ark has 2.5 times the firepower (not including the extra -1ap), and is significantly more durable. Making it open top would give it 5 times the number of shots while a unit is on board - there's no way that wouldn't incur a point increase!

Ok let them transport and heal immortals.

Give it a price hike and let it transport and heal Immortals and it'd see a lot more table time. Problem is that doesn't help warriors who are already struggling.

It needs something to make it worthwhile transporting the dudes up the board. 10 warriors up the board doesn't really do much at the moment. That's 290 points that's better spent at some other nice utility. Mephrit certainly helps. The Ark could radiate a 5++ aura, that would help.

Or make it into a proper necron "transport" and slap a teleportation gate on it.
Now it can bring in 20 model warrior blobs at any time. Or immortals, or destroyers, etc.

You'd think the necrons would be smart enough to properly adapt their jury rigged civilian vehicles for war, instead of just leaving it as an ambulance/hearse.

I think the only sensible way to use a Ghost Ark is as support for 2x 20 Warriors. They're probably not worth their points if you're not making the most of their repair ability.

They are pretty damn tough though which is what inspired my Ghost Ark spam list on the previous page. If you have weaker targets in a list the Arks can be Ignored, but a pure Ark list seems like a pain in the arse to deal with.

If a Ghost Ark could hold 20 Warriors, I'd probably take one. 10 Warriors just don't do enough, and it costs too many points to just be an ambulance with some guns on it.

This list is far better than I would like it to be:



It's fairly straightforward:

3 MSU Nephrek Immortals for objectives and screening
3 Nephrek Destroyer units for destroying. Deep strike them all if you want.
3 DDAs for doing what DDAs do.

9 CP + the Sautekh WL trait.

If you deep strike all the destroyers, one unit can go tank hunting with extermination protocols, the other two can be joined by the veil lord who brings the overlord with him. So the two units get to reroll 1's to hit and wound and can both be MWBD in the next turn.

Edit: The more I think about this the better it gets. The first 6 drops are 3 characters that can go anywhere, and 3 Destroyer units in reserves so your opponent can't counter deploy anything. After that it's 3 units of 5 immortals which also don't give much away, then your last 3 drops are the DDAs which are the first things that really matter and they will get to deploy to counter most of the opponents deployment.

Honestly I think this is up there with the best the codex can do.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
This list is far better than I would like it to be:

Spoiler:

Nephrek Battalion:

Overlord
Lord + Veil

5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals

6x Destroyers
6x Destroyers
6x Destroyers

Sautekh Spearhead:

Cryptek + Cloak - Warlord with Sautekh trait

DDA
DDA
DDA

It's fairly straightforward:

3 MSU Nephrek Immortals for objectives and screening
3 Nephrek Destroyer units for destroying. Deep strike them all if you want.
3 DDAs for doing what DDAs do.

9 CP + the Sautekh WL trait.

If you deep strike all the destroyers, one unit can go tank hunting with extermination protocols, the other two can be joined by the veil lord who brings the overlord with him. So the two units get to reroll 1's to hit and wound and can both be MWBD in the next turn.

Edit: The more I think about this the better it gets. The first 6 drops are 3 characters that can go anywhere, and 3 Destroyer units in reserves so your opponent can't counter deploy anything. After that it's 3 units of 5 immortals which also don't give much away, then your last 3 drops are the DDAs which are the first things that really matter and they will get to deploy to counter most of the opponents deployment.

Honestly I think this is up there with the best the codex can do.

I like scarabs for late game objective grabbers.
Only other concern is why you chose Nephrek? You really don't have any units that benefit greatly from it.
I think i would swap out 1 unit of destroyers for 1 unit of Wraiths.
It does look strong though, playing to our best units. I would just test it with and without the wraiths to see. I think 12 destroyers is more than enough and you may need some CC to lock up units and rush ahead turn 1 to get that T1 charge.


Something Like this:

Nephrek allows you to deepstrike, if I had to guess I'd say that's it.

Maybe what I'd add is: why not go for Nihilakh on the DDA dettachment? You shouldn't be planning on moving them that much either way, so you get a bonus for not doing so.

 Dynas wrote:

Only other concern is why you chose Nephrek? You really don't have any units that benefit greatly from it.

What now? The MSU Tesla units benefit from Nephrek by being able to move 11", it's what makes them good for objectives and screening. Far more importantly though: the Nephrek Translocation Crypt stratagem is ideal for Destroyers. It's like, the point of the list.

Scarabs are great for objectives and screening, but this list can make do with the Immortals in that role.

Wraiths vs Destroyers isn't even a contest. I think Wraith are a fairly mediocre unit due to their cost.

Nephrek allows you to deepstrike, if I had to guess I'd say that's it.

Maybe what I'd add is: why not go for Nihilakh on the DDA dettachment? You shouldn't be planning on moving them that much either way, so you get a bonus for not doing so.

Sautekh gives you:

The Warlord trait
Methodical Destruction Strat (1st DDA triggers for the other two)
The ability to move and shoot the main weapon without a -1 to hit.

Nihilak would not be bad though.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Wraiths vs Destroyers isn't even a contest. I think Wraith are a fairly mediocre unit due to their cost.

Hm, sort of agree/disagree. Wraiths are probably not worth 55 points, but they provide a relatively scary melee threat, which is something that, imo, you need in a list. Without the threat of a strong charging unit, your opponent will feel free to deploy and move as he or she wishes. With Wraiths on the table, they have to protect their important squishy units and make sure the shooty things don't get tied up for the rest of the game. While Wraiths will die to concentrated firepower, that's also shooting that's not going into your Destroyers.

I had a game where my opponent fired his whole army into 6 Wraiths to kill them, but my Destroyers, Tesseract Vault, and Immortals (who were scoring objectives as they do) were untouched until T2. While it sucks to lose 330 points in a turn, it was also far worth it to let my army get into position unmolested, especially since he had to deploy in a small bubble to prevent the first turn charge.

So yeah, while Wraiths do not win the game by themselves, I think their presence on the board changes your opponent's playstyle and tactics enough to be worth including a unit.

What now? The MSU Tesla units benefit from Nephrek by being able to move 11", it's what makes them good for objectives and screening. Far more importantly though: the Nephrek Translocation Crypt stratagem is ideal for Destroyers. It's like, the point of the list.

Yeah but you cannot DS outside of your Deployment Zone T1. And you dont have the C'tan, Monolith or Night Sycthe to get the extra range? Why not just VoD 1 unit? Also, if you advance the Destroyers you cannot shoot that turn, the Destroyer rule only helps with the -1 to hit for heavys. Sautekh on the other hand would turn those weapons into assault weapons and allow you to advance, though you are not guaranteed the 6" at that point, but at least you can still shoot.

Scarabs are great for objectives and screening, but this list can make do with the Immortals in that role.

.
Fair enough, but Scarabs are way faster. Even if its just one unit for late game Objective grabs

Wraiths vs Destroyers isn't even a contest. I think Wraith are a fairly mediocre unit due to their cost.

Gotta disagree. Getting the T1 charge on a vital unit can really throw a wrench into peoples plans and allows you to threaten heavy shooty armys by tying them up in CC.

Sautekh gives you:

The Warlord trait
Methodical Destruction Strat (1st DDA triggers for the other two)
The ability to move and shoot the main weapon without a -1 to hit.

Yeah. I think Sautekh Battalion as the core army would be great, and then a Nephrek outrider with 2 scarabs and wraiths and a cheap lord or overlord.

Wraiths are definitely a good unit for distraction. They WILL draw fire and, if by some miracle they don't, they will do some serious damage.

Lychguard would be better, IMO, if it weren't for their mobility problems

I did do a fair bit of pondering about weather to go all Sautekh, all Nephrek or splitting between the two in various ways. I settled on this split but can certainly see arguments for the alternatives.

Scarabs are better for objective grabbing than the Immortals agreed, but I'm thinking the Immortals are good enough when the alternative is taking less of the killy stuff.

My objection to Wraiths is that they just do what they always did (demand to be dealt with while being tough) but cost more. They really aren't that killy. I also find that lists seem more likely to have enough dakka to deal with them effectively these days. In addition, if you're up against marines or Chaos with a psyker the wraith will have their invulnerable save removed and your opponent will be wearing a very smug grin. Mortal wounds are also a thing that didn't used to happen.

punisher357 wrote:
Wraiths are definitely a good unit for distraction. They WILL draw fire and, if by some miracle they don't, they will do some serious damage.

Lychguard would be better, IMO, if it weren't for their mobility problems

Nephrekh Lychguard with shields and the stratagem could be really annoying.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

Only other concern is why you chose Nephrek? You really don't have any units that benefit greatly from it.

What now? The MSU Tesla units benefit from Nephrek by being able to move 11", it's what makes them good for objectives and screening. Far more importantly though: the Nephrek Translocation Crypt stratagem is ideal for Destroyers. It's like, the point of the list.

Scarabs are great for objectives and screening, but this list can make do with the Immortals in that role.

Wraiths vs Destroyers isn't even a contest. I think Wraith are a fairly mediocre unit due to their cost.

Nephrek allows you to deepstrike, if I had to guess I'd say that's it.

Maybe what I'd add is: why not go for Nihilakh on the DDA dettachment? You shouldn't be planning on moving them that much either way, so you get a bonus for not doing so.

Sautekh gives you:

The Warlord trait
Methodical Destruction Strat (1st DDA triggers for the other two)
The ability to move and shoot the main weapon without a -1 to hit.

Nihilak would not be bad though.

I think for Telsa weapons, Merphrit might be the best Code, but needs to have some teleportation combo to support.

Destroyers can be any dyansty and being "not bad", though Nephrek with the DS stratagem might be best in keeping alive to fire at least one salvo. Or maybe Sautekh if you have enough Overlords to spare at least one to MWBD on them.

DDA, I think it is quite a tough call. If you are deployed along short table edge (i.e. there is relatively more room between the deployment zones), the Nihilak is the best. However, if you are unlucky and get the long edge deployment and face off Genestealer Cult, Magnus / Flying Daemon Prince (with Warptime have a charge threat range of 32+2D6" range) or Harpy / Hive Crone or Swarmlord + flyrant slingshot combo, all of which can potentially make a T1, Sautekh is better pick due to able to retreat and still hit on 3s with its main cannon. However, you can't possibly know deployment type when building the list.

Yep, looking like the best best-
Really wish I could fit some Scarabs in with the Nephrekhs, but there's only room for three Fast slots, so no dice.
Maybe switch the forces around, so it's a Sautekh Battalion and a Nephrekh Outrider? Hmm, but then they'd be Sautekh Gauss Immortals (not bad, but not as useful as Neph Tesla Immortals).

Also, has someone done the math on whether a single T.Vault works out to be better or worse, points wise, than three DDAs? (+ Cloak-Tek, maybe, if taking points into consideration)

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
Wraiths are definitely a good unit for distraction. They WILL draw fire and, if by some miracle they don't, they will do some serious damage.

Lychguard would be better, IMO, if it weren't for their mobility problems

Nephrekh Lychguard with shields and the stratagem could be really annoying.

I've considered that. It would be nice, but I'm not sure lychguard are worth building around. Sure Nephrekh could let them advance up quickly but you move, you advance, you stand there and get blasted and then attempt to move and charge something if your opponent was foolish enough to leave anything that close.......seems too easily foiled. I'm sure I'll try it at some point.

Agreed. We are starved for Fast Attack Slots. I think scarabs should be troops personally. Like rippers. Or Destroyers should be heavy's. It's weird b/c if you upgrade 1 destroyer to heavy its still a FA slot, for a heavy unit, but if you just buy 3 Heavy Destroyers outright its a Heavy Slot.

Too bad our elite slots are mediocre. But we got to work with what we have.

It makes me sad to see that warriors and ghost arks just aren't that good anymore.

punisher357 wrote:
It makes me sad to see that warriors and ghost arks just aren't that good anymore.

Sure, if you're talking competitively. In my casual games they've performed outstandingly.

punisher357 wrote:
It makes me sad to see that warriors and ghost arks just aren't that good anymore.

Warriors are good for what they are. They are point cost right in between a Tac Marine and scout, with slightly better AP, slightly slower, but they get RP. I think Tesla warriors would be an interesting concept. What would make warriors a "must take" of immortals? Point cost? Stat line change?

MrPieChee wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2 Storm Bolters and the Rhino is 74 points. They're actually very durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable for us to just get Open Topped back for the Ghost Ark.

The ghost ark has 2.5 times the firepower (not including the extra -1ap), and is significantly more durable. Making it open top would give it 5 times the number of shots while a unit is on board - there's no way that wouldn't incur a point increase!

Would you like to calculate how much more durable? The answer might shock you on the Rhinos durability.

They're not more durable against small arms fire, but against bigger stuff they are. Quantum Shielding is killer.

Ghost Ark is T6, 4+, 14 wounds, with Quantum Shielding. Quantum Shielding turns damage 2 into damage 1.67, damage 3 into damage 2, and damage d6 into damage 1.56.
Rhino is T7, 3+, 11 wounds.

Formula is Wounds*Save Chance*Wound Chance/Damage=Hits needed.

Against Bolters:
Ghost Ark takes 14*2*3=84 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*3*3=99 hits to die.

Against Assault Cannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1.5*2=42 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*2*3=66 hits to die.

Against Autocannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1.5*1.5/1.67=18.86 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*2*2/2=22 hits to die.

Against Lascannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.5/1.56=13.46 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1.2*1.5/3.5=5.66 hits to die.

Against Thunder Hammers:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.5/2=10.5 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1.2*1.5/3=6.6 hits to die.

And, just for fun, against a Knight Titan's Gauntlet:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.2=16.8 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1*1.2/6=2.2 hits to die.

Aaaaaand what's the cost for the Ghost Ark?

 skoffs wrote:
Yep, looking like the best best-

Spoiler:

++ Nephrekh Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [85 PL, 1335pts] ++

+ HQ +
Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Hyperphase Sword (+ Veil)
Overlord [6 PL, 95pts]: Warscythe

+ Troops +
5x Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Tesla Carbine
6x Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]: Tesla Carbine
6x Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]: Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +
5x Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 275pts]
6x Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
6x Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]

++ Sautekh Spearhead Detachment +1CP [35 PL, 664pts] ++

+ HQ +
Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]

+++ 1999pts +++

Really wish I could fit some Scarabs in with the Nephrekhs, but there's only room for three Fast slots, so no dice.
Maybe switch the forces around, so it's a Sautekh Battalion and a Nephrekh Outrider? Hmm, but then they'd be Sautekh Gauss Immortals (not bad, but not as useful as Neph Tesla Immortals).

Also, has someone done the math on whether a single T.Vault works out to be better or worse, points wise, than three DDAs? (+ Cloak-Tek, maybe, if taking points into consideration)

What warlord trait and why?.. loving the list by the way..

With the multitude of 6-12 Destroyers in lists, anyone mixing in a Heavy to units? While the rate of fire is assuredly a strong point for Destroyers, having a reliable shot for things T7+ can really help get that tank or monster over hurt threshold and fully dead instead.

 JNAProductions wrote:
They're not more durable against small arms fire, but against bigger stuff they are. Quantum Shielding is killer.

Ghost Ark is T6, 4+, 14 wounds, with Quantum Shielding. Quantum Shielding turns damage 2 into damage 1.67, damage 3 into damage 2, and damage d6 into damage 1.56.
Rhino is T7, 3+, 11 wounds.

Formula is Wounds*Save Chance*Wound Chance/Damage=Hits needed.

Against Bolters:
Ghost Ark takes 14*2*3=84 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*3*3=99 hits to die.

Against Assault Cannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1.5*2=42 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*2*3=66 hits to die.

Against Autocannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1.5*1.5/1.67=18.86 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*2*2/2=22 hits to die.

Against Lascannons:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.5/1.56=13.46 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1.2*1.5/3.5=5.66 hits to die.

Against Thunder Hammers:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.5/2=10.5 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1.2*1.5/3=6.6 hits to die.

And, just for fun, against a Knight Titan's Gauntlet:
Ghost Ark takes 14*1*1.2=16.8 hits to die.
Rhino takes 11*1*1.2/6=2.2 hits to die.

yes! and qs draws small arms fire away from your infantry and other smaller stuff, making them even sturdier. 2*20 warrior blobs, accompanied by a cronotek (and the WL-trait) and a g-ark need a lot of firepower to be removed.

Good gak Drukhari are annoying to play against. Agents of Vect with Labyrinthine Cunning is just irritating.

Has anyone done the math on how many destroyers it takes to kill a razorwing jetfighter, raider, ravager, or venom?

I want to say with extermination protocols you could split 3 and 3, and kill 2 a round, but I can't get the damn stratagem off. How do you counter this crap?

I just played a 2k game against Drukhari last night. Getting my extermination protocols blocked every turn felt bad man. They die easy, but yikes do they sling a lot of weapons. I will say that they have no staying power, so as long as you can survive the first round of shooting you should be in good shape.

Sn33R wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Yep, looking like the best best-

Spoiler:

++ Nephrekh Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [85 PL, 1335pts] ++

+ HQ +
Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Hyperphase Sword (+ Veil)
Overlord [6 PL, 95pts]: Warscythe

+ Troops +
5x Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Tesla Carbine
6x Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]: Tesla Carbine
6x Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]: Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +
5x Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 275pts]
6x Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
6x Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]

++ Sautekh Spearhead Detachment +1CP [35 PL, 664pts] ++

+ HQ +
Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]

+++ 1999pts +++

Really wish I could fit some Scarabs in with the Nephrekhs, but there's only room for three Fast slots, so no dice.
Maybe switch the forces around, so it's a Sautekh Battalion and a Nephrekh Outrider? Hmm, but then they'd be Sautekh Gauss Immortals (not bad, but not as useful as Neph Tesla Immortals).

Also, has someone done the math on whether a single T.Vault works out to be better or worse, points wise, than three DDAs? (+ Cloak-Tek, maybe, if taking points into consideration)

What warlord trait and why?.. loving the list by the way..

Warlord would be the Cloak-tek, simply for the Hyperlogical Strategist trait. With 9 CP your odds of getting a bunch back are decent.