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2018/05/05 10:55:47
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
p5freak wrote: Is it correct that a unit of sautekh immortals with tesla, buffed by MWBD or WOC, will score three hits on 4+ when i play the methodical destruction stratagem ?
Correct
Automatically Appended Next Post: Remember, the real advantage is going from 6+ to 5+, as it adds to the benefit of going from 3+ to 2+
The next step is just adding 2 hits sometimes, while the BS is already maxed out
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nagerash wrote: I tried making lists with units who benefit most from the code. They are not meta friendly, but I think in fluffy games against similar armies could make a fun game. Every list has the appropriate WLtrait and artifact. But it was hard not to take units that didn't benefit. Only Novokh has a special character as I found Anrakyr added enough extra to the list even though he didn't get the code...
For Sautekh destroyers would be better than the Doom Scythe, they too benefit nicely from the bonus, with an effective threat range of 40" for their EP attack, could even give them MWBD to mitigate the -1 to hit
Edit: phone playing a number on me
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/05 11:11:15
2018/05/05 11:03:44
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Yep.
It's a modifier just like MWBD. Which is hilarious.
Its hilarious. I guess there is no way to add another +1 ?
Doesn't look like it, but you could combine it with the stalker to get some rerolls, which would give you more chances to proc tesla.
Yep, I was about to say,
The only way to improve that is getting a reroll for 1s to-hit.
(if they're being run as Sautekh for Methodical Destruction what options are there available to them apart from the obvious Stalker?)
2018/05/05 11:53:07
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Yep.
It's a modifier just like MWBD. Which is hilarious.
Its hilarious. I guess there is no way to add another +1 ?
Doesn't look like it, but you could combine it with the stalker to get some rerolls, which would give you more chances to proc tesla.
Yep, I was about to say,
The only way to improve that is getting a reroll for 1s to-hit.
(if they're being run as Sautekh for Methodical Destruction what options are there available to them apart from the obvious Stalker?)
Nothing. If destroyer lords weren't so selfish then you could use them, but GW doesn't want them to buff anything except destroyers.
What I have
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2018/05/05 12:03:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
p5freak wrote: Is it correct that a unit of sautekh immortals with tesla, buffed by MWBD or WOC, will score three hits on 4+ when i play the methodical destruction stratagem ?
Correct
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Remember, the real advantage is going from 6+ to 5+, as it adds to the benefit of going from 3+ to 2+
The next step is just adding 2 hits sometimes, while the BS is already maxed out
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nagerash wrote: I tried making lists with units who benefit most from the code. They are not meta friendly, but I think in fluffy games against similar armies could make a fun game. Every list has the appropriate WLtrait and artifact. But it was hard not to take units that didn't benefit. Only Novokh has a special character as I found Anrakyr added enough extra to the list even though he didn't get the code...
For Sautekh destroyers would be better than the Doom Scythe, they too benefit nicely from the bonus, with an effective threat range of 40" for their EP attack, could even give them MWBD to mitigate the -1 to hit
Edit: phone playing a number on me
I thought about that, but Doom Scythes would benefit more + I've always thought the models are awesome and only really viable as Sautekh. So if I'm going to put them anywhere its in that list. Was thinking the same with the Tomb Sentinel, but couldn't find the points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/05 12:04:18
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/05/05 13:33:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
So I already own 9 Tomb Blades that can be either Tesla or Gauss. But I'm looking at the Particle Beamer and I'm liking them more every time I see them. How many would you guys recommend to have? In their own unit or mixed in with other Gauss/Tesla TBs?
Odrankt wrote: So I already own 9 Tomb Blades that can be either Tesla or Gauss. But I'm looking at the Particle Beamer and I'm liking them more every time I see them. How many would you guys recommend to have? In their own unit or mixed in with other Gauss/Tesla TBs?
I would only ever take them if I need to save points
2018/05/05 13:49:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Nagerash wrote: Doom Scythes would benefit more + I've always thought the models are awesome and only really viable as Sautekh. So if I'm going to put them anywhere its in that list.
If that was the reasoning I'm surprised you didn't give the Mephrit list any Night Scythes (so they can fly up within 12" of a target to give their T.Destructors -1AP).
2018/05/05 13:57:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
2018/05/05 14:22:46
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Nagerash wrote: Doom Scythes would benefit more + I've always thought the models are awesome and only really viable as Sautekh. So if I'm going to put them anywhere its in that list.
If that was the reasoning I'm surprised you didn't give the Mephrit list any Night Scythes (so they can fly up within 12" of a target to give their T.Destructors -1AP).
Good point, maybe I should change it to: I've always loved the models in combination with the big freaking gun at the bottom.
I kinda want to go back to the unique "draw a line and hit everything underneath" that was soo awesome and after seeing too many movies with big ass lazors drawing lines in the ground, I was in love.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/05/05 14:32:10
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Nagerash wrote: Doom Scythes would benefit more + I've always thought the models are awesome and only really viable as Sautekh. So if I'm going to put them anywhere its in that list.
If that was the reasoning I'm surprised you didn't give the Mephrit list any Night Scythes (so they can fly up within 12" of a target to give their T.Destructors -1AP).
Good point, maybe I should change it to: I've always loved the models in combination with the big freaking gun at the bottom.
I kinda want to go back to the unique "draw a line and hit everything underneath" that was soo awesome and after seeing too many movies with big ass lazors drawing lines in the ground, I was in love.
That definitely has a nice ring to it!
I'll soon build my third so I can try out the stratagem, don't care if it's not optimal.
2018/05/05 14:57:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: A question regarding Szeras and his buff...If he buffs a unit of Immortals and gives them the +1 BS does that mean TImmortals explode on 5s?
Im asking because if yes, does it mean any MWBD could give them Tesla exploding on 4s?
If you read the rule, there is no reason to expect that it does.
Just like a CCB doesn't explode it's Tesla cannon on 5+ just because it has 2+ BS
2018/05/05 15:07:38
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: A question regarding Szeras and his buff...If he buffs a unit of Immortals and gives them the +1 BS does that mean TImmortals explode on 5s?
Im asking because if yes, does it mean any MWBD could give them Tesla exploding on 4s?
If you read the rule, there is no reason to expect that it does.
Just like a CCB doesn't explode it's Tesla cannon on 5+ just because it has 2+ BS
Thanks for that...Somehow i thought he gives a +1 modifier similiar to MWBD
2018/05/05 15:47:11
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
The CCB can't take the Veil (infantry only). It *can* take the Lightning Field, however, which is borderline required on it to give it the 4++ inv save it's missing (plus, because the model is big, it has a better chance of inflicting MWs on more things).
It may be worth giving a foot HQ the Veil so he can take the Destroyers up for a surprise Alpha (best on a Chrono-Tek, to help keep them alive, but you could use a Lord instead so you might not have to spend as much CP giving them EP every turn. Though if you DO give them EP they won't need to be given WoC, which would probably be better used on Tesla Immortals anyway).
Don't bother with the Heavy Destroyer, though. Their damage output is actually inferior to regular Destroyers if accounting for EP.
Might also suggest switching some of those Novokh Scarabs out for Wraiths. Better killing power and survivability.
And maybe the CCB would be better in Novokh, actually. Better than a Cryptek, anyway. That HQ choice would be completely wasted in that Dynasty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/05 15:51:54
2018/05/05 16:02:33
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
The CCB can't take the Veil (infantry only). It *can* take the Lightning Field, however, which is borderline required on it to give it the 4++ inv save it's missing (plus, because the model is big, it has a better chance of inflicting MWs on more things).
It may be worth giving a foot HQ the Veil so he can take the Destroyers up for a surprise Alpha (best on a Chrono-Tek, to help keep them alive, but you could use a Lord instead so you might not have to spend as much CP giving them EP every turn. Though if you DO give them EP they won't need to be given WoC, which would probably be better used on Tesla Immortals anyway).
Don't bother with the Heavy Destroyer, though. Their damage output is actually inferior to regular Destroyers if accounting for EP.
Might also suggest switching some of those Novokh Scarabs out for Wraiths. Better killing power and survivability.
And maybe the CCB would be better in Novokh, actually. Better than a Cryptek, anyway. That HQ choice would be completely wasted in that Dynasty.
Unless otherwise specified, distance to a model with a base, is measured to the base. So for the CCB its a destroyer type flyer base, sure its a somewhat larger base, but not as much as one might expect.
2018/05/05 16:08:42
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
The CCB can't take the Veil (infantry only). It *can* take the Lightning Field, however, which is borderline required on it to give it the 4++ inv save it's missing (plus, because the model is big, it has a better chance of inflicting MWs on more things).
It may be worth giving a foot HQ the Veil so he can take the Destroyers up for a surprise Alpha (best on a Chrono-Tek, to help keep them alive, but you could use a Lord instead so you might not have to spend as much CP giving them EP every turn. Though if you DO give them EP they won't need to be given WoC, which would probably be better used on Tesla Immortals anyway).
Don't bother with the Heavy Destroyer, though. Their damage output is actually inferior to regular Destroyers if accounting for EP.
Might also suggest switching some of those Novokh Scarabs out for Wraiths. Better killing power and survivability.
And maybe the CCB would be better in Novokh, actually. Better than a Cryptek, anyway. That HQ choice would be completely wasted in that Dynasty.
Unless otherwise specified, distance to a model with a base, is measured to the base. So for the CCB its a destroyer type flyer base, sure its a somewhat larger base, but not as much as one might expect.
If I remember correctly, the latest FAQ gave the barge the hovering ability, meaning that all distances are measured from the model rather than the base.
2018/05/05 16:21:20
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
The CCB can't take the Veil (infantry only). It *can* take the Lightning Field, however, which is borderline required on it to give it the 4++ inv save it's missing (plus, because the model is big, it has a better chance of inflicting MWs on more things).
It may be worth giving a foot HQ the Veil so he can take the Destroyers up for a surprise Alpha (best on a Chrono-Tek, to help keep them alive, but you could use a Lord instead so you might not have to spend as much CP giving them EP every turn. Though if you DO give them EP they won't need to be given WoC, which would probably be better used on Tesla Immortals anyway).
Don't bother with the Heavy Destroyer, though. Their damage output is actually inferior to regular Destroyers if accounting for EP.
Might also suggest switching some of those Novokh Scarabs out for Wraiths. Better killing power and survivability.
And maybe the CCB would be better in Novokh, actually. Better than a Cryptek, anyway. That HQ choice would be completely wasted in that Dynasty.
Unless otherwise specified, distance to a model with a base, is measured to the base. So for the CCB its a destroyer type flyer base, sure its a somewhat larger base, but not as much as one might expect.
If I remember correctly, the latest FAQ gave the barge the hovering ability, meaning that all distances are measured from the model rather than the base.
Yep... measure from anywhere on the model.
Back to the list... you are going to have a toughish time finding Destroyers, and since you have no warriors you'll have a hard time finding scarabs (unless you go to Forgeworld and the the really ugly ones).
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2018/05/05 16:42:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
The CCB can't take the Veil (infantry only). It *can* take the Lightning Field, however, which is borderline required on it to give it the 4++ inv save it's missing (plus, because the model is big, it has a better chance of inflicting MWs on more things).
The CCB can take the VOD. The unit which goes along with it has to be INFANTRY.
It may be worth giving a foot HQ the Veil so he can take the Destroyers up for a surprise Alpha (best on a Chrono-Tek, to help keep them alive, but you could use a Lord instead so you might not have to spend as much CP giving them EP every turn. Though if you DO give them EP they won't need to be given WoC, which would probably be better used on Tesla Immortals anyway).
I want to alpha strike with the CCB and the destroyers, or use the VOD defensively. A chrono-tek cant keep up with destroyers, unless i roll a 5 when advancing, not good. Only two models can keep up, the CCB and the destroyer lord. The destroyer lord is not worth it, if i use EP. The CCB can still buff the destroyers when i run out of CP.
Might also suggest switching some of those Novokh Scarabs out for Wraiths. Better killing power and survivability.
I somewhat disagree. Wraiths are good, but 18 scarabs have 72 attacks, can re-roll failed hit rolls, make additional attacks on 6s (wraiths can also re-roll failed hit rolls, and make additional attacks on 6s, but 4 wraiths only have 12 attacks, there will be a lot less 6s, and less failed hit rolls). Scarabs have lots of wounds, and they are cheap.
And maybe the CCB would be better in Novokh, actually. Better than a Cryptek, anyway. That HQ choice would be completely wasted in that Dynasty.
The cryptek is not wasted as novokh, he is there for the warlord trait, to buff the scarabs, and because he can keep up with them. If necessary i can reanimate the scarabs, the cryptek will help. The CCB cant buff scarabs with WOC.
2018/05/05 18:18:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
The ccb can take the VoD, but why would you take the destroyers with you? The destroyers can't really support the ccb if he want to go slice up some dudes, and he does need support. And if you want to go off killing things he really needs a 4++ as I don't think his QS alone will keep him alive against a lot of enemies.
I also don't think the destroyers or ccb need the VoD the most as they have a high movement to get in range already.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/05/05 19:00:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CCB and destroyers will deepstrike in game, if possible/necessary. Or retreat with VOD. Depending on the situation. CCB will buff destroyers with WOC. Cryptek and overlord will buff the immortals, sautekh for methodical destruction. The 5 model unit i for holding an objective. Novokh cryptek will move forward aggressively with the two 9 model units of scarabs. The other two 4 model units are for objective grabbing/deepstrike denial.
So, the constructive part of my comment. Here's my recs.
- Swap the CCB to your outrider detachment, and give the CCB Lightning Field instead. CCBs are actually solid in close combat with a field and can support instead of being 85 point Crimson Haze totems.
- Swap your destroyers to outrider too so the CCB has something to support and replace out the heavy destroyer with a normal destroyer. (Yes, if they're using extermination protocols it's not as efficient, but it's better than nothing.)
- Add in a 3xWraith group. To pay for this, remove the excess cryptek, 1 of the scarab groups, and a single immortal for points. (Note, you can't have 4 selections of scarabs under new FAQ anyways)
- Plan on using CP to buy Veil with your Overlord, so you can get a squad of immortals into the fight.
As for the less constructive part of my comment... why pick up necrons to focus so much on Novokh?
For a 423 point detachment, you get 108 attacks, that with Novokh and crimson haze translate to 54+27+20.25 =~101 hits at S3 AP0 D1. All of that can't even kill a unit of Destroyers or Tomb Blades... or a LRBT. Or an ork Boyz squad.
Orks will do well over double that at better BS and toughness.
Hell, imperial guard infantry squads with character support can do that without orders, AND double that with orders, AND can shoot while doing it. With a better save profile. And it's not like it's melee guardsmen are great build sweeping tournaments or anything.
I just don't get why you'd come to necrons to build into our weaknesses. Why not a nice Tesseract Vault list instead or something?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/05 19:04:23
2018/05/05 19:31:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
You're right, personal preference is always valid.
But if someone's going to buy an army and wants to know what others think of the list, it still seems important to mention if big parts of it aren't competitive. Like, I love the idea of the obelisk, but I'd still want people to let me know if it's terrible.
2018/05/05 20:21:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I posted this list over in Army Lists, but it would seem most of the Great Phaerons hang out here... and I'd like your opinions/constructive critiques.
#1 - I'm struggling with which HQ should be my warlord and what trait I should assign...
#2 - I'm not completely convinced on the Outrider Dynasties, but I'd like to keep at least 2 detachments the same for Cryptek redundancy...
#3 - Do you think the list is viable/competitive?
Biasn wrote: Hey guys , i've got a question.
Do Units from the auxillary detachement benefit from their chosen Dynasty trait (can use their dynasty strats aswell)?
For example :
Main battallion -> mephrit
auxillery (with wraiths) -> novokh
Look under 'Abilities' on page 108 of the codex.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2018/05/05 22:01:04
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
DeChevalier wrote: I posted this list over in Army Lists, but it would seem most of the Great Phaerons hang out here... and I'd like your opinions/constructive critiques.
#1 - I'm struggling with which HQ should be my warlord and what trait I should assign...
#2 - I'm not completely convinced on the Outrider Dynasties, but I'd like to keep at least 2 detachments the same for Cryptek redundancy...
#3 - Do you think the list is viable/competitive?
You can't take 2 relics on the same character. I would also advice a battalion over 2 or 3 outriders.apart from that, I don't think mephrit is the best code for those units. I'd make Sautekh the Warlord for its trait. And if you want destroyers and blades Nephrekh would be better imo. Mephrit isn't bad for blades, but I think they'd benefit more from nephrekh if you want to keep it at 2 dynasties.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/05/05 22:56:17
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
DeChevalier wrote: I posted this list over in Army Lists, but it would seem most of the Great Phaerons hang out here... and I'd like your opinions/constructive critiques.
#1 - I'm struggling with which HQ should be my warlord and what trait I should assign...
#2 - I'm not completely convinced on the Outrider Dynasties, but I'd like to keep at least 2 detachments the same for Cryptek redundancy...
#3 - Do you think the list is viable/competitive?
You can't take 2 relics on the same character. I would also advice a battalion over 2 or 3 outriders.apart from that, I don't think mephrit is the best code for those units. I'd make Sautekh the Warlord for its trait. And if you want destroyers and blades Nephrekh would be better imo. Mephrit isn't bad for blades, but I think they'd benefit more from nephrekh if you want to keep it at 2 dynasties.
Thanks for the quick response.
#1 - What character do I have 2 relics on?
#2 - Why would you advise a Battalion over 2 Outriders?
#3 - Other than the Translocation Crypt Strategem, why do you suggest Nephrekh? Is there a reason for Destroyers to be in Nephrekh, Strategem aside?
~4100
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