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Necronplayer wrote:

blufury wrote:
How highly are cp being valued now? Am I handicapping myself by taking 2 of the 1 cp detachments instead of the troop tax battalion?

I didn't value it as high before the FAQ, but now that a Battalion is 5CP, it's a must in any balanced list I create. I say balanced because it depends on the list you make. If you're running 3 T. Vaults or some other extreme, you'll probably be fine with limited CP.

But having the extra CP to command reroll a die for a target you really need to drop this turn, or auto pass morale when you can't afford to lose an objective, is really powerful.

Agreed. Our Strategems are pretty solid. With the new FAQ, pretty much 100% of my lists are a batallion *and* a support detatchment of choice (outrider or spearhead usually)

I've yet to make it past turn 4 with CP in the pool running at least a battalion and an outrider or spearhead.

Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:

-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.

-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.

-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.

-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.

-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6 dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.

Doctoralex wrote:
Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:

-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.

-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.

-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.

-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.

-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6 dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.

All very true.
But I also think that a lot of folks overvalue CP to a degree. They are helpful, but running out of them isn't a death sentence or something. They exist to be used. Ideally, liberally in the first turn or two to make key things happen to swing the game in your favor.

 iGuy91 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:

-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.

-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.

-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.

-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.

-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6 dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.

All very true.
But I also think that a lot of folks overvalue CP to a degree. They are helpful, but running out of them isn't a death sentence or something. They exist to be used. Ideally, liberally in the first turn or two to make key things happen to swing the game in your favor.

I think this is key. You need to cause as much damage as possible or prevent as much as possible depending on your perspective/strategy. The bigger points deficit you can cause to your opponent or prevent for your army the better. You literally create a handicap your opponent has to work with/around.
I tend to burn the majority of my cp in the first 2 turns. My opponent still has cp in later turns, but it doesn't matter because they've lost too many units/models and I've been able to keep too many of mine alive.

If you try to build redundancy in the list, you are less dependent on rerolls which might save you 2-3 CPs (which you end up wasting on something else)

If you have 3 DDAs then they're more likely to perform near their expected damage output. You're less dependent on that single D6 roll.

@punisher357 & @torblind

Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.

But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

 iGuy91 wrote:
@punisher357 & @torblind

Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.

But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?

 iGuy91 wrote:

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

Same here

rol 4-5 shots - Great ... oh, rolled 1's n 2's to hit

rolled 2 shots hit both times ..saved with invulns

Rolled shots hit, wounded failed save ... rolls 1 damage

/sigh

I'm replacing mine with more destroyers

Same with all single shot variable damage weapons, really.
Heavy Gauss Cannons have a nasty habit of inflicting 1 damage.

That's why you take two or three. With variable shots AND damage, it's an exercise in frustration to take only one.

...and then of course there are things like riptides with a 3++ that make you bang your head against a wall when they simply soak three DDAs worth of fire with barely a scratch.

punisher357 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@punisher357 & @torblind

Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.

But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?

Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.

 iGuy91 wrote:


Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's

I literally did this with Imotekh's Lightning the first time I used him with this codex, which was like, my second game. I was so mad.

Remember on average a DDA nets you around 5-6 damage per model with the cannon, not taking invuls into account.

You need 3 to have a good change at taking down something with 12-15 wounds, again with invuls it gets even worse.

I've also had some really bad rolls with the DDAs. Honestly, as said by @torblind, I'd rather take them as 3 at the very least or not take them at all.

 iGuy91 wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@punisher357 & @torblind

Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.

But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?

Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.

I know people will say it's superstitious.....but I'd get new dice. Honestly, my friend that I play against was constantly whiffing rolls so I bought him a new set of dice and told him to play with those. Problem solved, and it's not just one game. Anytime he tried to go back to the old dice....whiff. Who knows if it's how the dice were made, inconsistencies in weight, etc. ?

We ditched the dice and the problem with them. This doesn't mean he's rolling all 6's now, but he's definitely rolling more statistically accurate.

List from small tourney, finished 3rd

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/necrons-c-mangelss-list/

punisher357 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@punisher357 & @torblind

Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.

But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.

(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)

DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?

Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.

I know people will say it's superstitious.....but I'd get new dice. Honestly, my friend that I play against was constantly whiffing rolls so I bought him a new set of dice and told him to play with those. Problem solved, and it's not just one game. Anytime he tried to go back to the old dice....whiff. Who knows if it's how the dice were made, inconsistencies in weight, etc. ?

We ditched the dice and the problem with them. This doesn't mean he's rolling all 6's now, but he's definitely rolling more statistically accurate.

Just seems to be that model. Normally my luck on my dice is pretty darn good for everything else, but when it comes to the DDA, just iiiiice cold.

On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.

tneva82 wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
So I'm sat here bored and thought I would add my bit.. I played 1k sons yesterday and having mephrit won the day he charged his mauler fiend I done more damage on 20 warriors in overwatch (mephrit) then the 2 shots I got off from the dda. Now to call mephrit a trap I would love to see how you play because m5 is no way able to out manoeuvre a fast army like nids.. lol but he charged my warriors I over watched loads a few in my turn I used rp then veil and moved them across the board.

Ah but with tyranids how much use that -1AP will then have against stuff that outmanouvers you? Stealers? They have 5++, they don't care. Hormagaunts? 6+ save. No care. Termagaunt ditto 6+ save so irrelevant. Warriors yeah I'll give it that there -2AP is good but again M6 so they aren't uber fast monsters...

Now there IS the carnifex with M7 and 3+. That's the prime one you would be looking at getting to rapid fire range.

Sunday facing necrons I was so glad he had the -1AP dynasty. Didn't came into play even once!

Agreed. Their are soooo many invuls out there these days.

Maneuver is the key to warfare. That means Nephrek if you want faster speed and slight penalty to hit OR Sautekh if you want more random/average advances but no penalties to hit. Consider that MWBD can grant the +1 and offset the -1 to hit on advances Nephrek basically turns your army into a flat 7" faster movement (12" for most things). Or Sautekh slightly slower and more deadly with nice stratagems. These 2 dynasties are definitely the top 2 contenders for necrons.

 Dynas wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
So I'm sat here bored and thought I would add my bit.. I played 1k sons yesterday and having mephrit won the day he charged his mauler fiend I done more damage on 20 warriors in overwatch (mephrit) then the 2 shots I got off from the dda. Now to call mephrit a trap I would love to see how you play because m5 is no way able to out manoeuvre a fast army like nids.. lol but he charged my warriors I over watched loads a few in my turn I used rp then veil and moved them across the board.

Ah but with tyranids how much use that -1AP will then have against stuff that outmanouvers you? Stealers? They have 5++, they don't care. Hormagaunts? 6+ save. No care. Termagaunt ditto 6+ save so irrelevant. Warriors yeah I'll give it that there -2AP is good but again M6 so they aren't uber fast monsters...

Now there IS the carnifex with M7 and 3+. That's the prime one you would be looking at getting to rapid fire range.

Sunday facing necrons I was so glad he had the -1AP dynasty. Didn't came into play even once!

Agreed. Their are soooo many invuls out there these days.

Maneuver is the key to warfare. That means Nephrek if you want faster speed and slight penalty to hit OR Sautekh if you want more random/average advances but no penalties to hit. Consider that MWBD can grant the +1 and offset the -1 to hit on advances Nephrek basically turns your army into a flat 7" faster movement (12" for most things). Or Sautekh slightly slower and more deadly with nice stratagems. These 2 dynasties are definitely the top 2 contenders for necrons.

If the new Death Watch come out recently and probably Space Wolf released at the bottom of this year become the new hottness. Mephrit will have their days. That tons of -1AP Tesla shots will be deadly for those rely on good armor saves.

 iGuy91 wrote:


On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.

Lychguard, Warriors, or Flayed Ones are really your only good options. You can either have him sit with a couple of blocks of troops or if you want to have some form of deepstrike, use a Lord or Cryptek to veil him up to a deepstriking group of FO or Lychguard (using the Neph Strat) and add their buff to the group.

 iGuy91 wrote:


On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.

Lychguard and Flayed ones may seem like the obvious choice but I think he actually brings the most benefit to a Warrior heavy army. If you're taking something like two blobs of 20 warriors you want an overlord sat with them anyway, Anrakyr is ideal. They become a serious threat up close with 80 attacks from one unit if they rapid fire and charge. You can make all those attacks hit on 2s with MWBD and half of them S5 with the +1 Strength strat.

I wonder if there has been any lists featuring Warriors that performed well in the tournament scene yet?
I honestly don't see them doing so great in a hyper competitive environment (though I would be pleasantly surprised if I were proven wrong).

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:


On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.

Lychguard and Flayed ones may seem like the obvious choice but I think he actually brings the most benefit to a Warrior heavy army. If you're taking something like two blobs of 20 warriors you want an overlord sat with them anyway, Anrakyr is ideal. They become a serious threat up close with 80 attacks from one unit if they rapid fire and charge. You can make all those attacks hit on 2s with MWBD and half of them S5 with the +1 Strength strat.

I'd considered that, and throwing in a Cryptek as my warlord with him with Immortal Pride to make them fearless, and give them a 5++ and VoD to get them out of sticky assaults.

I think that warriors can do well competitively.....but only if they're really supported which will cost a lot. I think you'd really have to play to the objectives and have at least 2 ghost arks.

Having said that, I don't think they'll do "best" and that's why they won't see competitive use. Tournies are all about min-maxing. Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.

punisher357 wrote:
Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.

Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.

Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.

are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?

punisher357 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.

Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.

are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?

I would go 19 if its ITC backed by some lords, Ghost ARk, Cryptec if I did it. Solid fire base. Yes the auto morale WL trait, or the one that extends your WL buff range by 3". More than likely though, take Sautekh to have the chance to get CP back. Remember, there is the generic Stratagem in the BRB that cost 2 CP and you autopass morale. This way you have a chance to get those 2 CP back anyway without having to waste the WL trait slot, effectively getting even more CP which we are starved for with all the stratagems.

 Dynas wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.

Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.

are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?

I would go 19 if its ITC backed by some lords, Ghost ARk, Cryptec if I did it. Solid fire base. Yes the auto morale WL trait, or the one that extends your WL buff range by 3". More than likely though, take Sautekh to have the chance to get CP back. Remember, there is the generic Stratagem in the BRB that cost 2 CP and you autopass morale. This way you have a chance to get those 2 CP back anyway without having to waste the WL trait slot, effectively getting even more CP which we are starved for with all the stratagems.

That's been my thought. I think it makes more sense to use Sautekh and then use the CP's to autopass and potentially get some of the cp back.

Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication
Just got back into the hobby so bare with me

So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex
I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos
Etc
I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves

What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc
Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and
gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats
where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so
Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any
Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1
I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive
When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power

Needing some solid go to Marine killing tactics to rid them from the galaxy!!!