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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
... Something like a gun platform with a head.

That would be awesome!

Gave me ideas for some cool conversions

I mean, if you think about it, all of the necron vehicle models should have looked like that.
Instead of having a pilot the necron should have been fused to the vehicle in such a way that it looks barely recognizable.
That would have conveyed more a "machine army" feel than "metal egyptian dudes in space" feel.
If my conversion skills weren't terrible I would have done it myself, lol.

Then again, that's probably just me. I'm a sucker for HR Geiger style horror and System Shock. I understand if that's not the path they wanted to take with nucrons. I don't like it, but I understand it.
If they ever get around to designing the Empire of the Severed, they should take heavy influence from those two works, with a healthy dose of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream. And I would jump on board, because that's my sort of necron.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, if you think about it, all of the necron vehicle models should have looked like that.
Instead of having a pilot the necron should have been fused to the vehicle in such a way that it looks barely recognizable.
That would have conveyed more a "machine army" feel than "metal egyptian dudes in space" feel.

Then again, that's just me. I'm a sucker for HR Geiger style horror.

Well definitely the Destroyers at least. Something fused, still recognizable as having been a Necron once, and a big gun.. hm..

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, well, fluff and aesthetic being personal preference thing, not taking them in a list is like wearing dress shoes in a race: you might think it looks better but it's probably going to hinder your performance.

If you're not too concerned with winning, no prob, but people who come looking for hints and suggestions on how to make the most out of their army lists deserve to hear the truth: From a competitive tactics standpoint, Destroyers are the best unit, point for point, in the codex, and not taking them is almost like giving yourself a handicap.
Just because some people have had anecdotal experiences where they didn't work out the way they were hoping does not mean they're any less effective (plus, it really helps to know how to play them to get them most bang for your buck. That's the reason so many people take them in Nephrekh detachments, to keep them safe until it's time to best employ them).

I'll put that into context. It depends the meta you are facing.

1-Vs LOTS of infantry, armor 4+, invu4++ and such, Tesla immortals are our best units. MWBD mandatory. You will not be able to MWBD 2 or more units that many turns in your life. There are other combos to improve, Sautekh metodogical destruction, Nikialah reroll 1s to hit or Mephrit -1AP and 6s give one more attack stratagem. All are more or less equivalent, having tested both, there a +/- 2 wounds output between each which is not very significant.

1.5- I'll argue that for point equivalent you can build a 5 tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them. Best use them with gauss and nebuloscope and chase them scouts and such.

2- Destroyers are best vs multi-wound stuff, idealy 2-3 wound heavy infantry with thoughness 6 or less. They can also blow up thanks and huge things. Against Magnus-equivalent you can throw your whole unit and reroll everything, it's very likely you will not bring him down with only 1 unit. If you use them for deepstrike, keep in mind there are a couple of turns where you may not fire.

3- DDA are marvels to bring down big tanks/ planes / huge stuff. Garanteed alpha if you win initiative (keep those #drops low durin deployement). Especially if they don't have invulnerable saves. They are also HUGE fire magnet, which you don't really care about once your big targets have been shot down. They are weak to sniper (?), tesla shot and other high attack output gak because of their low 4+ save.

4- Wraiths, very fast to move downfield and engage. Almost unkillable. But i've had a hard time finishing anything with them. For destruction purposes, any of the point 1 to 3 above will be far better. Best used as blocker, and to carry a Nightbrigner.

5-Scarabs. Point for point one of the toughest unit we have, cause they are cheap, if left uncheck they can deal surprising amount of attacks and damage and so will attrack enemy fire for a whole turn. 100 points sacrifice to save the rest of your army. Yeah a unit of 9 scarabs is canoptek, stratagem for wraith also work for scarabs, including RP.

These are our 5 best bets. Having tried almost anything
1- warrior are not very efficient. They can work in a mephrit silver tide with a ghost ark and all possible buffs.
2- All our elite are so so at best. Deciver can be as much a winning weapon as a loosing one if you feel forced to displace 3 units without really knowing what to do with them. Flayed ones and lychguard need external help to get in charge range. Pretorian just don,t synergize with anything anymore. Deathmarks, some like them, but its a gimmick also. If its part of your plan, go ahead. Triarch stalker, useless since you can have a nihilikh detachment.
3- Other heavys are so-so. Heavy destroyers will do better quality shots than DDA but lack the endurance of the 20 rapid fire shot. Monolith are expensive. Oblekisks, meh.
4-Tesseract vault? Eh if you want to spend 800$ on a Tesseract vault spam, be my guest.

I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?

 EnTyme wrote:
I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?

Stalker doesn't do that. It just lets you reroll 1s

The first +1 to tesla is the critical one, the next less so

 EnTyme wrote:
I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?

What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?

Hmm. For some reason I was thinking Stalker gave the rest of the army +1 to hit against units it shot at. Disregard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?

What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?

Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, IG, just to name a few. You've never gone up against an horde army with a massive model count?

Got a tournament coming up this weekend, im running twin vaults, a nihilakh pylon and a deciever. Gonna be funnnnn

 Klowny wrote:
Got a tournament coming up this weekend, im running twin vaults, a nihilakh pylon and a deciever. Gonna be funnnnn

I'd love to hear how that goes

 Klowny wrote:
Got a tournament coming up this weekend, im running twin vaults, a nihilakh pylon and a deciever. Gonna be funnnnn

Or awfully short.

 EnTyme wrote:
Hmm. For some reason I was thinking Stalker gave the rest of the army +1 to hit against units it shot at. Disregard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?

What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?

Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, IG, just to name a few. You've never gone up against an horde army with a massive model count?

I usually encounter light defence MSU rush list like 6 units of 10 Tzaangors riding in 6 Rhinos....... Against such list, no buff 10men Immortal Tesla is enough cripple one unit (killing 8 of them) in one round. What I actually need is having MWBD ability on multiple Immortals, and some buff to my Destroyers or Stalkers or DDA to kill those Rhinos so the shots from immortal is not wasted.

The "heavist horde" I've run into was 30 strong Ork Boyz. I was not playing Necrons but SW in that game. Anyway, my calculation show that against T3/4 units with 5+/5++ (Guards, Genestealers, Tzaangors, etc), a +1 to hit buff for 10 men Tesla Immortals would kill 13 of them. Enough to cripple them if they are only 20 strong. For 30 strong hordes with 5++..... Yea ok, if you so desire to cripple them with one squad, +3 to hit is the way then.... that will kill 19 of them.

Da W wrote:
tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.

How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command.
Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.

 skoffs wrote:

Da W wrote:
tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.

How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command.
Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.

All the more reason to just give neprekh tomb blades particle beamers then.
I really don;t like the idea of advancing with tesla carbines. Its an expensive weapon for its stats, and most of the points go to its special ability, which is already difficult to proc. By advancing you are wasting its points. You pretty much need an overlord if you want to make the most of them, especially with nephrekh.

Got a 1500 pts game in vs Dark Eldar

Ran


Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.

The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.

Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.

 skoffs wrote:

Da W wrote:
tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.

How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command.
Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.

I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.

 EnTyme wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Da W wrote:
tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.

How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command.
Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.

I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.

Sure, the question is more wether or not you want to be in RF, and thus CC threat range.

The Tesla carbine is not a bad weapon on Immortals, even without MWBD. It's also not a bad weapon on TB. It easily outperforms Particle, and Gauss blasters, except for MEQ in RF range. Take particle only to save points. (Not a bad reason in itself)

If you're screening Tomb Blades (Scarabs are perfect for this), charges aren't much of a concern. You can even pile in the Tomb Blades for a token potshot during your opponent's combat phase, then retreat the Tomb Blades and Scarabs during your turn for the next volley.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Got a 1500 pts game in vs Dark Eldar

Ran

Spoiler:

Batallion (Nephrek)
Overlord w/ WS, Immortal Pride, Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ Chronomtetron

3x10 Tesla Immortals

1x6 Destroyers
8 Scarabs
3 Scarabs

DDA

Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.

The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.

Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.

The DDA does 5-6 dmg with it's DDCanon on average. Was it far off? People see all those D6s in the stat line and expect to win the lottery with every round of shooting

Or if you want to be mobile and advance as much as possible. Its pointless advancing with double tesla carbines, as you'd be paying double the points for a single extra, weaker, shot.

With beamers you can move 15-20", shoot with all of your shots, and not have to worry about proccing anything special.

 EnTyme wrote:
If you're screening Tomb Blades (Scarabs are perfect for this), charges aren't much of a concern. You can even pile in the Tomb Blades for a token potshot during your opponent's combat phase, then retreat the Tomb Blades and Scarabs during your turn for the next volley.

Definitely a viable strategy. I always try to use TB as flanking support to something else that marches up, man or machine. They provide great damage output, but are somewhat fragile, shouldn't hold a flank on their own

I find them to be durable enough at T5 3+ 5++ 2W with -1 to hit and RP, but in my mind, they're the embodiment of "the best defense is a good offense". They can't charge you if they're dead, and Tomb Blades are pretty good at making things dead.

 EnTyme wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Da W wrote:
tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.

How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command.
Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.

I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.

I think that Tesla on tomb blades really shines with the Mephrit dynasty code. At > 12 inches, it outperforms gauss against all targets, and at <12 inches, it outperforms AP -3 gauss against most targets. Particle beamers, even with Mephrit do half or less than half the damage of tesla

Good to know. I'm assuming the number in each cell is the chance to do a wound?

 EnTyme wrote:
Good to know. I'm assuming the number in each cell is the chance to do a wound?

The number is the damage suffered for a target with given Toughness and Armor save combo.

I'm guessing he calculated for 9 TB models

I really like Particle Beamer Tomb Blades. For 270ptsish you get 9 Tbs 5 w. ignoring cover, 3+ save and 4 w/ 5++. PB don't do as much damage as Gauss or tesla but they are a good and cheap distraction that will survive long enough and as the game goes on and the game gets smaller these guyy will start to lay down the hurt.

Gauss/tesla = lay down hurt will get killed asap.
Particle beamer = dont hurt as much, will be forgotten about. opponent wont be able to kill them as the game goes on.

I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.

 Odrankt wrote:
I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.

What TTS add-ons do you use?

Jackers wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.

What TTS add-ons do you use?

I have all the armies I play, all the cards, 1000 pieces of terrain, gakk load of dice, open war cards and a deployment tool.

Might not be the answer you are looking for but not sure what mods you can apply to TTS.

Thanks was the deployment tool I was missing.

On-topic: reposting something that got missed on the previous page.

How many units of Scarabs are people running, and how many bases per unit?

torblind wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Got a 1500 pts game in vs Dark Eldar

Ran

Spoiler:

Batallion (Nephrek)
Overlord w/ WS, Immortal Pride, Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ Chronomtetron

3x10 Tesla Immortals

1x6 Destroyers
8 Scarabs
3 Scarabs

DDA

Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.

The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.

Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.

The DDA does 5-6 dmg with it's DDCanon on average. Was it far off? People see all those D6s in the stat line and expect to win the lottery with every round of shooting

Maybe? I think mine has under-performed in the 4 or so games i've run it. I might be averaging 3-4.