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there is some useful info and thoughts in there, but it is nearly impossible to read. Any chance you could do some formatting?

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hey, guys, could I possibly get some thoughts on this list...

You dont need two overlords, get a lord or cryptek for the second one. One overlord can buff both immortal units with the phaerons will stratagem for 1CP. Cryptek will help reanimate them, lord will let them re-roll wound rolls of 1. The Dlord isnt bad. Two units of 4 destroyers arent good, its better to max one unit, makes it harder to wipe them out, and you can roll RP for them. Use the saved points on scarabs. Buffed immortals should be sautekh, for methodical destruction. Wraiths and Dlord can be novokh or nephrekh, either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

Thanks.

Does this look better?

Spoiler:

Sautekh Battalion (+5CP)
Overlord w/ Staff of Light (Warlord: Hyperlogical Strategist)
Lord w/ Staff of Light
10 Immortals w/ Tesla
10 Immortals w/ Tesla
10 Immortals w/ Guass

Nephrekh Outrider (+1CP)
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery, Nanoscarab Casket
6 Destroyers
3 Wraiths
3 Wraiths
4 Scarabs

1500pts (9CP)

Definitely, Lord's are better than Crypteks for Immortals in many circumstances so that's a good choice. Taking a big unit of destroyers is a good idea to make use of the stratagem, because the stratagem is so good I'm not sure if the Destroyer Lord is worth it, so I'd consider a CCB to get +1 to hit instead. I'm not too sure about the love for hyperlogical strategist, maybe try Mephrit and Immortal Pride as well or just an entire Nephrekh list if you like the CCB better than your DLord, then your Destroyers can benefit from your regular Lord instead and your CCB can buff your Immortals.

 vict0988 wrote:

Definitely, Lord's are better than Crypteks for Immortals in many circumstances so that's a good choice. Taking a big unit of destroyers is a good idea to make use of the stratagem, because the stratagem is so good I'm not sure if the Destroyer Lord is worth it, so I'd consider a CCB to get +1 to hit instead.

I know the D. Lord isn't good, but he's my favourite model so I'd like to use him anyway.

However, if you think there's a better way of using him, I'm open to any suggestions.

 vict0988 wrote:
I'm not too sure about the love for hyperlogical strategist, maybe try Mephrit and Immortal Pride as well or just an entire Nephrekh list if you like the CCB better than your DLord, then your Destroyers can benefit from your regular Lord instead and your CCB can buff your Immortals.

That's interesting. I'd thought that the Warlord traits that regenerated CP were generally the best.

Given that I'll be keeping the D. Lord, would you recommend Mephrit or Nephrekh for the Battalion?

Also, do you think Nephrekh is actualy the right choice for the outrider? I was torn between it and Novokh.

So has anyone tried an actual SWARM of scarabs?

I'm talking at least 5x9 Scarabs send straight towards the enemy.

I mean it costs nearly 600 points (excluding the damn tax HQ...) but it is 135 wounds to chew through. Either with Nephrekh for speed or Novokh for increased kill potential. It could be a good distraction for either a Silver Tide that is Deceiv'd up the board or our Wraiths/Destroyers.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:


Does this look better?

Spoiler:

Sautekh Battalion (+5CP)
Overlord w/ Staff of Light (Warlord: Hyperlogical Strategist)
Lord w/ Staff of Light
10 Immortals w/ Tesla
10 Immortals w/ Tesla
10 Immortals w/ Guass

Nephrekh Outrider (+1CP)
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery, Nanoscarab Casket
6 Destroyers
3 Wraiths
3 Wraiths
4 Scarabs

1500pts (9CP)

It is better, but there is still some room for improvement. If you make the destroyers sautekh they can still shoot their guns after advancing (with -1 to hit), because heavy turns into assault. Nephrekh lets them advance 6", but they cant shoot.

There is a stratagem which lets you do RP for wraiths. If you use one unit with 6 models its harder to wipe them out, you can use the strat to reanimate them.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

I know the D. Lord isn't good, but he's my favourite model so I'd like to use him anyway.

However, if you think there's a better way of using him, I'm open to any suggestions.

He is good, you wont find another character in the game that can do the same he can do for the points.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

That's interesting. I'd thought that the Warlord traits that regenerated CP were generally the best.

Given that I'll be keeping the D. Lord, would you recommend Mephrit or Nephrekh for the Battalion?

Mephrit cant use methodical destruction, its sautekh only. Nephrekh lets you deepstrike INFANTRY with a strat, which isnt bad either. With the veil of darkness you can deepstrike a hq unit and another INFANTRY unit. Mephrit can use talent for annihilation, which isnt bad, but not as good as methodical destruction, IMHO. You have lots of options, i dont think there is one which is the best.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Also, do you think Nephrekh is actualy the right choice for the outrider? I was torn between it and Novokh.

You have to decide what you want, both are good. Either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

Doctoralex wrote:
So has anyone tried an actual SWARM of scarabs?
I'm talking at least 5x9 Scarabs

Most people are playing the beta rules (in anticipation of competitive games that will probably be running them) so the most we can get is 3x9.
Still ain't bad, though. Will seriously gum up massive sections of the table if you let them.

An actual scarab swarm sounds fun, even if the thought of getting that many scarab bases together does make me wince.

Ok noob on the site I am sure this has been gone over but my eyes are hurting looking
Through the forum for warriors vs Immortals from what I gather Tesla Immortals with
As much MWBD that can be thrown at them what I am not sure of is that I play against
Space Marines mostly imperial fist Raven Guard Space Wolves loving the 24” S5 volume
Just not sure it’s enough against Marines in cover just looking for people’s experiences
And tactics dynasty etc

If I remember my numbers correctly gauss Immortals will out perform tesla against marines IF you get within rapid fire range. It's I think the only instance where they are better. Also don't forget the Solar Pulse strategem. 1cp removes the cover bonus for a unit.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
If I remember my numbers correctly gauss Immortals will out perform tesla against marines IF you get within rapid fire range. It's I think the only instance where they are better. Also don't forget the Solar Pulse strategem. 1cp removes the cover bonus for a unit.

Or, if Marines in cover are giving you a headache, you could go crazy and load up some Gauss Tomb Blades with Scopes (both getting you to within RF distance quickly and denying their cover. Make them Mephrit and they should be deleting MEQ guys left and right with no worries about getting tied up in combat because they've got fly so can just fall back and shoot).

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
If I remember my numbers correctly gauss Immortals will out perform tesla against marines IF you get within rapid fire range. It's I think the only instance where they are better. Also don't forget the Solar Pulse strategem. 1cp removes the cover bonus for a unit.

Didn't Mephrit Tesla beat Mephrit Gauss at rapid-fire range?

skoffs wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
If I remember my numbers correctly gauss Immortals will out perform tesla against marines IF you get within rapid fire range. It's I think the only instance where they are better. Also don't forget the Solar Pulse strategem. 1cp removes the cover bonus for a unit.

Or, if Marines in cover are giving you a headache, you could go crazy and load up some Gauss Tomb Blades with Scopes (both getting you to within RF distance quickly and denying their cover. Make them Mephrit and they should be deleting MEQ guys left and right with no worries about getting tied up in combat because they've got fly so can just fall back and shoot).

Tomb blades would certainly do the trick

Doctoralex wrote:

Didn't Mephrit Tesla beat Mephrit Gauss at rapid-fire range?

It's possible, I was referring to non-mephrit. It's easy enough to check the numbers at dice-hammer.com. I just don't have time right now

 p5freak wrote:

It is better, but there is still some room for improvement. If you make the destroyers sautekh they can still shoot their guns after advancing (with -1 to hit), because heavy turns into assault. Nephrekh lets them advance 6", but they cant shoot.

Well, I could move them into the Battalion and make that Sautekh.

 p5freak wrote:

There is a stratagem which lets you do RP for wraiths. If you use one unit with 6 models its harder to wipe them out, you can use the strat to reanimate them.

I don't mind making the Wraiths into a single squad (well, alright, I do mind because I hate using mex-sized squads, but it's something I tolerate with Necrons ), but if I do that I won't be able to move the Destroyers into the Sautekh Battalion.

 p5freak wrote:

He is good, you wont find another character in the game that can do the same he can do for the points.

A fast melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff specific units of ranged infantry? Yeah, I imagine there aren't too many of those around.

 p5freak wrote:

Mephrit cant use methodical destruction, its sautekh only. Nephrekh lets you deepstrike INFANTRY with a strat, which isnt bad either. With the veil of darkness you can deepstrike a hq unit and another INFANTRY unit. Mephrit can use talent for annihilation, which isnt bad, but not as good as methodical destruction, IMHO. You have lots of options, i dont think there is one which is the best.

Fair enough. I'll probably take the Veil on the Lord or Overlord, regardless of which Dynasty I end up using.

 p5freak wrote:

You have to decide what you want, both are good. Either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

I know I have to make the final decision, but since I've had no experience with either of them (I haven't had a game with Necrons since the codex came out), I thought it would be worth seeing what other Necron players think of the two and whether one seems better for the units I'm using.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

It is better, but there is still some room for improvement. If you make the destroyers sautekh they can still shoot their guns after advancing (with -1 to hit), because heavy turns into assault. Nephrekh lets them advance 6", but they cant shoot.

Well, I could move them into the Battalion and make that Sautekh.

 p5freak wrote:

There is a stratagem which lets you do RP for wraiths. If you use one unit with 6 models its harder to wipe them out, you can use the strat to reanimate them.

I don't mind making the Wraiths into a single squad (well, alright, I do mind because I hate using mex-sized squads, but it's something I tolerate with Necrons ), but if I do that I won't be able to move the Destroyers into the Sautekh Battalion.

 p5freak wrote:

He is good, you wont find another character in the game that can do the same he can do for the points.

A fast melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff specific units of ranged infantry? Yeah, I imagine there aren't too many of those around.

 p5freak wrote:

Mephrit cant use methodical destruction, its sautekh only. Nephrekh lets you deepstrike INFANTRY with a strat, which isnt bad either. With the veil of darkness you can deepstrike a hq unit and another INFANTRY unit. Mephrit can use talent for annihilation, which isnt bad, but not as good as methodical destruction, IMHO. You have lots of options, i dont think there is one which is the best.

Fair enough. I'll probably take the Veil on the Lord or Overlord, regardless of which Dynasty I end up using.

 p5freak wrote:

You have to decide what you want, both are good. Either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

I know I have to make the final decision, but since I've had no experience with either of them (I haven't had a game with Necrons since the codex came out), I thought it would be worth seeing what other Necron players think of the two and whether one seems better for the units I'm using.

The Destroyer Lord actually hits more often than the Overlord, but the Destroyer Lords job isn't to buff anything or kill anything. His job is to not die and the things up.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

A fast melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff specific units of ranged infantry? Yeah, I imagine there aren't too many of those around.

His WS is the second best there is, re-rolling 1s, which is above average. If thats relatively poor to you, your standards must be pretty high. Anything lower than WS2+ is a no go for you then ?

Please show me a HQ unit which has 10" move, can fly, has T6 W6 A4, 3+, 4++, can rise from the dead twice, can regenerate D3 wounds at the start of each players turn, gets -1 to hit, or reduces damage by 1, for ~130 pts.

Shield Captain on Dawneagle is only 160.

Hits on 2s, rerolling, at S6, rerolling wounds on the charge, 14" move, universal -1 to hit if Warlord or 5+ FNP, can gain an extra -1 against shooting, 7 wounds to a DLord's 6, 2+ armor, can gain a 3++, reroll charges, better shooting...

 p5freak wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

A fast melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff specific units of ranged infantry? Yeah, I imagine there aren't too many of those around.

His WS is the second best there is, re-rolling 1s, which is above average. If thats relatively poor to you, your standards must be pretty high. Anything lower than WS2+ is a no go for you then ?

Please show me a HQ unit which has 10" move, can fly, has T6 W6 A4, 3+, 4++, can rise from the dead twice, can regenerate D3 wounds at the start of each players turn, gets -1 to hit, or reduces damage by 1, for ~130 pts.

Oooh what load outs? I imagine nanocasket.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Destroyer Lord actually hits more often than the Overlord

Barely. And the Overlord actually brings a useful buff.

 p5freak wrote:

His WS is the second best there is

Which is half as good as the best WS. You know, the one that's pretty much standard on all HQs - especially the ones specialising in melee.

 p5freak wrote:
If thats relatively poor to you, your standards must be pretty high. Anything lower than WS2+ is a no go for you then ?

When the unit in question is an expensive melee HQ, yes.

 p5freak wrote:

Please show me a HQ unit which has 10" move, can fly, has T6 W6 A4, 3+, 4++, can rise from the dead twice, can regenerate D3 wounds at the start of each players turn, gets -1 to hit, or reduces damage by 1, for ~130 pts.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I'd rather pay a bit more and have a decent HQ.

I mean, he's supposed to be a mounted Lord, right? Hence the crap WS and BS. So in that case, why can't he have the Lord's aura? Instead of one that only buffs Destroyers.

That way you don't have a dedicated-melee unit who is only able to buff a ranged unit. Moreover, his buff would actually enhance his own melee ability, rather than improving his (almost nonexistent) ranged ability.

 skoffs wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
If I remember my numbers correctly gauss Immortals will out perform tesla against marines IF you get within rapid fire range. It's I think the only instance where they are better. Also don't forget the Solar Pulse strategem. 1cp removes the cover bonus for a unit.

Or, if Marines in cover are giving you a headache, you could go crazy and load up some Gauss Tomb Blades with Scopes (both getting you to within RF distance quickly and denying their cover. Make them Mephrit and they should be deleting MEQ guys left and right with no worries about getting tied up in combat because they've got fly so can just fall back and shoot).

Excellent thanks a lot so all the lists coming out with Tesla are for against non marines

4A WS3 is better than 3A WS2, even without factoring in the rerolling 1s. Why worry about his WS3?

Being WS3 means you could even give him MWBD if you're in a pinch.

Being apparently the second best HQ in the galaxy for his price certainly doesn't deserve all this hate. He's good for what he does, and he gets some play time doesn't he?

Where's the fun in smashing primarch class super HQs together.

I actually like the Monolith and what can now be done
With certain strats I just can’t get it to survive long enough
To do any cool stuff Plasma and Lascannon Spam
Monolith goes boom most of the time first round of shooting
Anybody had success with it yet?

So I played in a local tournament yesterday, went 2 and 1 so not bad.

My list.



I took on a thousand son army and won easy through tactics, hiding my forces and playing the objectives vs trying to engage.
3rd game was vs a death guard army that was full of 5 man teams with a TON of plasma guns. I got first turn and blitzed his lines, by end of turn 2 I had lost 10 warriors and a team of scarabs. All he had was 3 death guards, 3 psychers, and his chaos Lord. It wasn't going good. He managed to then kill the transcendent but my entire force was lined up to fire so he called it.

My loss came from the following list and is what I am wanting to talk about.



I got creamed. Snipers killed my cryptek, vendettas wiped out my squad of 20, I managed to get into cc with the scouts and guilliman with my wraiths but guilliman cut through my invulnerable saves with mortal wounds and my not so good rolling and I couldn't get my ctan powers to target him, the aircraft kept getting in the way. Didn't help the mission we got was kill points and he got first turn.

So what modifications would anyone suggest to deal with a guilliman / aircraft assault line?

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Which is half as good as the best WS. You know, the one that's pretty much standard on all HQs - especially the ones specialising in melee.

Last time i checked the difference from 2+ to 3+ is 16,7%, not 50%.

 p5freak wrote:

When the unit in question is an expensive melee HQ, yes.

Expensive ? Captn slamguinius from BA is 130 pts. and he hits on 3+, rerolling 1s. He has only T4 W5 3+ 4++. He cant be raised from the dead twice, not even once, and he cant regenerate D3 wound every players turn. He does more damage than the Dlord in melee, but thats it.

 p5freak wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I'd rather pay a bit more and have a decent HQ.

Its sad that you only see him as a weak destroyer buffer, like he only has his destroyer buff, and nothing else. He is capable of so much more.

 p5freak wrote:

I mean, he's supposed to be a mounted Lord, right? Hence the crap WS and BS. So in that case, why can't he have the Lord's aura? Instead of one that only buffs Destroyers.

No, he isnt a mounted lord. He is the boss of destroyers, with a pretty weak buff, though.

 p5freak wrote:

Last time i checked the difference from 2+ to 3+ is 16,7%, not 50%.

You're right, actually, it's not quite as bad as I thought.

 p5freak wrote:

Expensive ? Captn slamguinius from BA is 130 pts. and he hits on 3+, rerolling 1s. He has only T4 W5 3+ 4++. He cant be raised from the dead twice, not even once, and he cant regenerate D3 wound every players turn. He does more damage than the Dlord in melee, but thats it.

Well, I have no clue what his other stats are or what else he does, so that's not the most helpful comparison.

Out of interest, though, is he hitting on 3s because that's his base WS or because he's using a PF or TH?

 p5freak wrote:
Its sad that you only see him as a weak destroyer buffer, like he only has his destroyer buff, and nothing else.

Please show me the way, O Enlightened One. What is this magical aura the Destroyer Lord has, which only your Awakened eyes can see?

So what modifications would anyone suggest to deal with a guilliman / aircraft assault line?

If possible, try to avoid going into melee with Guilliman if you can.

All those scouts is a tricky one. Try to keep your characters out of LoS and chip them down with warriors/ send scarabs towards them.

As for 3x Vultures.... yikes. That's 120 S5 ap- shots coming at ya! Try to focus them down one by one. Or tie them up with Scarabs/the C'tan, forcing them to move and giving them -1 to hit. But honestly, your list was ill equipped to deal with them. A destroyer squad or a pair of DDA's would have easily dealt with them.

Doctoralex wrote:So has anyone tried an actual SWARM of scarabs?

I'm talking at least 5x9 Scarabs send straight towards the enemy.

I mean it costs nearly 600 points (excluding the damn tax HQ...) but it is 135 wounds to chew through. Either with Nephrekh for speed or Novokh for increased kill potential. It could be a good distraction for either a Silver Tide that is Deceiv'd up the board or our Wraiths/Destroyers.

i played 3x9 scarabs. They did nothing :(

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Destroyer Lord actually hits more often than the Overlord

Barely. And the Overlord actually brings a useful buff.

 p5freak wrote:

His WS is the second best there is

Which is half as good as the best WS. You know, the one that's pretty much standard on all HQs - especially the ones specialising in melee.

 p5freak wrote:
If thats relatively poor to you, your standards must be pretty high. Anything lower than WS2+ is a no go for you then ?

When the unit in question is an expensive melee HQ, yes.

 p5freak wrote:

Please show me a HQ unit which has 10" move, can fly, has T6 W6 A4, 3+, 4++, can rise from the dead twice, can regenerate D3 wounds at the start of each players turn, gets -1 to hit, or reduces damage by 1, for ~130 pts.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I'd rather pay a bit more and have a decent HQ.

I mean, he's supposed to be a mounted Lord, right? Hence the crap WS and BS. So in that case, why can't he have the Lord's aura? Instead of one that only buffs Destroyers.

That way you don't have a dedicated-melee unit who is only able to buff a ranged unit. Moreover, his buff would actually enhance his own melee ability, rather than improving his (almost nonexistent) ranged ability.

That "useful buff" only affects one unit at a time if you wanna make silly complaints.

If I might weigh in on the whole Destroyer Lord debate, is there any value in a shooty Destroyer Lord?

I'm thinking one with the Mephrit Merciless Tyrant Warlord Trait and Voltaic Staff. So he'd have an 18" Assault 3 S6 AP-3 D2 gun that inflicts Mortal Wounds on 6s to wound.

I'm just thinking in terms of stuff that would let him hang with Destroyers and also get some use out of his aura.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That "useful buff" only affects one unit at a time if you wanna make silly complaints.

You're right. Clearly the Overlord buff is completely worthless because it only affects one unit at a time.

But thank you. You've made me realise that it was a mistake to ever bother asking for advice here. Your blatant disingenuousness means I can't trust anything you say with regard to tactics.

Doctoralex wrote:

So what modifications would anyone suggest to deal with a guilliman / aircraft assault line?

If possible, try to avoid going into melee with Guilliman if you can.

All those scouts is a tricky one. Try to keep your characters out of LoS and chip them down with warriors/ send scarabs towards them.

As for 3x Vultures.... yikes. That's 120 S5 ap- shots coming at ya! Try to focus them down one by one. Or tie them up with Scarabs/the C'tan, forcing them to move and giving them -1 to hit. But honestly, your list was ill equipped to deal with them. A destroyer squad or a pair of DDA's would have easily dealt with them.

Yeah. I knew my list wasn't designed to deal with his the moment I saw it.

I think dropping the transcendent for a doomsday ark would be the first step. Also as much as I love the command barge it didn't end up doing much in my games that a normal overlord couldn't do. It normally hung out with the ctan and boosted the big warrior or the immortal squad.

If I do that It gives me points to get more scarabs, more warriors, or more wraiths. I would love to find room for 2 dda, but I don't see that happening at 1500